Grappling: Grab their foot in a threatening manner, it doesn't cost you anything

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Grappling: Grab their foot in a threatening manner, it doesn't cost you anything

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The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

huh posted:

How is the production?

Is it worth the purchase price?

If it has the event audio instead of a drum circle in the background it'll be all the production values I need.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2012 05:29

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 17:42

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Dante posted:

Well the IBJJF has loving done it now, they've updated their already dumb ruleset on reaping to basically ban any berimbolo and DLR sweep that puts inward pressure on the knee. They also of course did this right before the euros so a bunch of people didn't know and got DQ'ed. I don't really have any faith that this is done to protect the fighters, this is probably just another step to "clean it up" for the olympics where this horrible banning poo poo will just continue to judo-esque levels. Hillary Williams (who aside from being a good competitor and licensed IBJJF referee doesn't have any more connection as far as I know) is making some horrible defenses of these rules too over on the underground which just makes me worry more that this is what they're really thinking behind the scenes:

This well "this is new and unhistorical to our sacred sport, someone might get hurt lets ban" it is an awful attitude that has poo poo all over judo.

The argument that "this historically isn't part of the sport" is really dumb for a sport that historically steals whatever works from other sports.

Next they should ban all takedowns aside from "hug+fall over" because wrestling is not historically part of the sport.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2012 16:53

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

People who train, have any of you heard of Twisted Fitness in Madison? They run inside of a weightlifting gym, and since I am looking for both a place to work out and a place to train BJJ and Muay Thai again, it might be a convenient place to kill two birds with one stone. Their site lists them as a member of Alliance BJJ, but there's no instructor info.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2012 05:09

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

fatherdog posted:

There's dozens of different ways to play half guard, but honestly at white belt you're probably better off sticking to extremely basic stuff -

1) Don't let them get their shoulder to your face and flatten you out
2a) try to get the underhook (on the side of their trapped leg) and get up on your hip
2b) try to push on their hip (on the side of their untrapped leg) and regain full guard

If you succeed at 1 and keep going back and forth between 2a and 2b, you'll generally do okay, and you'll build good habits for most of the other stuff you're going to try to do from half guard.

Is there anything wrong with using the underhook/shrimping to get my knees under me and start to try to work for a single leg to reverse the position? I like avoid being on my back if at all possible, even full guard, so this is what I usually try to do. If I'm lucky/have better endurance than them I can usually either reverse them to their back, or I can get my feet under me and back out. I'm wondering if there's anything that people who aren't other white belts are going to nail me with that makes this a bad idea.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2012 19:49

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Xguard86 posted:

probably less about good fitness and more the three inches of tar coating his lungs

I would assume that Bravo smokes up from only the finest vaporizers. There's probably a volcano hooked to the HVAC system in his gym.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2012 20:14

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Thoguh posted:

I was going to, but given the complete silence to the streams I posted to the conference tournaments last weekend I figured there wasn't any interest.

I watched the ones on the Big 10 network, I just didn't post about it. I'm sorry I don't tell you every intimate detail of my life DAD.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2012 05:47

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

There were a couple matches last night where one of the wrestlers just looked totally helpless next to the other. It was pretty fun to watch, even if I haven't been able to follow the rest of the tournament due to my office blocking espn3.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2012 16:25

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Thoguh posted:

but BJJ did not come from Japanese Jiu Jitsu. It came from Judo.

What are you struggling with here. Judo came from Jiu Jitsu. BJJ Came from Judo. Therefore BJJ came from Jiu Jitsu.

You're arguing that humans did not come from single-celled life-forms because humans came from apes.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2012 03:37

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

westcoaster posted:

whoa buddy, they still haven't found that missing link.

drat you're right. BJJ was intelligently designed and came from nothing.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2012 14:33

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

the least weasel posted:

I don't think "shower immediately after practice" is new to anybody

e: Do your gyms not have showers for some inexplicable reason?

Mine never did. We were in a storefront and then an old mechanic's shop that our coach converted, and it was too expensive to redo plumbing to add showers.

# ¿ May 6, 2012 16:58

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

It's cool that Braulio is into beat poetry.

# ¿ May 16, 2012 02:44

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

I'm really enjoying the Olympic Judo rules more than I thought I would. It's kind of hilarious to watch a guy "defend himself" by throwing himself into the most vulnerable of positions to avoid a brief submission threat.

It's funny in a sad way, seeing an art that started out because it found other martial arts to be impractical find its way to "flop down on my belly, the referee will save me".

# ¿ Jul 30, 2012 15:46

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

KingColliwog posted:

This is the sports part of judo, you won't see that kind of thing in every club/every member of clubs. People will game the rules of sports no matter what, but most know the sport isn't all there is to judo. When we train ground work at my club, we roll for "x" minutes without stopping (unless someone taps or something similar) so you won't see that kind of things. This is the way it was at the 3 clubs I went to.

There's a lot of difference between judo as a whole and competitive judo.

I know that most people don't necessarily train like that, I'm just entertained by the contrary-to-practical-safety behavior that sport/Olympic judo produces. No reasonable person would defend themselves from an opponent that had thrown them to their stomach by flattening completely out on the ground, yet this is a behavior that Olympic-style judo explicitly encourages. It's quirk of the transition between an art for self-defense and a competitive sport, but it's still funny.

The more genuinely frustrating things are when a competitor is really obviously working for a sub and gets stopped and stood up just as they're locking it in. I saw a couple of armbars and gi chokes that looked like totally done deals get stood up, and I saw someone stood up when they were backmounted with both hooks and an arm around the opponent's neck.

I'm sure this is an argument that gets batted around all the time, but if they really want to make Judo all about working for throws, I wish they would drop the pretense and just remove all the submission stuff from the rules altogether. If nobody's get the time to work submissions, stop pretending it's an avenue to victory. Change the groundwork rules so that if you get an opponent to the mat in fashion that does not score a point, you get a clearly defined (rather than arbitrarily at the referee's discretion) amount of time to turn your opponent over and get a pin before the match is stood back up. At least that might produce some interesting scrambles and seem less arbitrary.

# ¿ Jul 30, 2012 21:16

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Xguard86 posted:

In my imaginary world Judo and bjj combine. You can win with ippon but the rest of the scoring is points for position (non-ippon worthy throws = takedown points) with no limit on mat time and fewer prohibitions on techniques. You can also disengage and stand if you want, forcing your opponent to stand up as well, because watching guys butt scoot and compete for who can pull guard is so uninspiring.

So I guess old school judo.

This is what I ideally wish for, but if they insist on their current path of becoming pyjama Greco, I wish they'd just stop teasing with brief flashes of the old way.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2012 17:51

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Xguard86 posted:

Went to the massage therapist on Saturday. She said I have some crazy tight rhomboids. Which makes sense because I feel that pinching tightness between my shoulders 24/7... for the last five years or so.

I've done some different things but can't find the magic combo to heal. I think it might be some posture and stress things as well.

Anyone have any tips or experience with chronic tightness or spasms in there central back?

Tennis ball it, every day.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2012 20:07

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

I wrote a bunch of words, but deleted them to say this:
If you attempt to get a better position and fail, you will likely take less damage than if you attempt a sub from your back and fail. This is due to a number of factors, but one is that your head is more protected in many sweep positions and your opponent has to stop punching you to maintain their base.

Additionally, a sub from your back is more likely to fail than trying to sweep or stand up.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2012 23:15

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

TheKingslayer posted:

Underhook on the far side. Near side arm around the head and connected with a Gable Grip. We'll assume I'm on the right side of my opponent. So my left leg is extended with my right leg driving into the hip.

I'm applying pressure with my left shoulder to the jaw and my chest down on their chest. My head is facing toward their face and tight to the shoulder.

At least, this is what I assume I'm doing. I could be doing it wrong.

Are you also sinking your hips to the floor? If your hips are high you might feel like you're pushing down on their sternum harder, but you're actually reducing the maximum amount of pressure you can create. Remember that you're trying to make him carry your weight, so you're making it easier on him if you're carrying any of it.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2012 21:56

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

I will fight toe hug man to the out-of-breath in the fatgoon jitsu pit. I will use my deadly technique of "fat side control" to perform a diaphragm choke on him and we will see whose obscure technique is most able to defeat someone who is not an experienced grappler.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2013 15:39

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

What's the best way to finish up the RNC if I have very long arms? I have their trachea in the V of my elbow, hand grasping my bicep, other hand on the back of their head. I'm puffing my chest forward and pulling back/squeezing with the choking arm. Despite this, there just seems to be too much space in there and I can't get enough pressure to get a tap or put them out. I've experimented with grabbing my shoulder instead of my bicep, but that seems to move the V of the elbow out of position and turn it into a trach crush with my bicep. It also seems to make it easier to break my grip.

edit: Also I am doing lots of curls, but that's more of a long-term solution

# ¿ Jan 29, 2013 19:31

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Yes.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2013 19:42

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Mardragon posted:

Oh and another important thing is to get your arms set and then instead of using arm strength flex your chest forward and shoulders back to increase the pressure way more than additional arm strength can.

I'm doing this part already. My issue isn't skinny limbs. I'm not swole, but I'm not small either. About 17" arms at the moment. I'm definitely not above going for the trachea when competing, but I'd like to practice performing the technique properly so that I can apply it to my training partners without making their throats hurt and because the blood choke is just plain faster.

The issue is more of an anatomy thing: I have a 78.5" reach. There's just too much room in the "triangle" of the choke to get an average sized neck, so I'm looking for modifications to make.

Your point about going palm-to-palm isn't something I've considered. I think I get too hung up on "classic" technique when drilling this stuff, so I'll give that a shot next time I roll and report back.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2013 15:39

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Who Gotch Ya posted:

Long arms here too. Palm to palm all day. Wrist to shoulder. For head-and-arms and anacondas too. Use your head as a third arm also. Sometimes I can finish the RNC with just one arm and my head (using the other arm to keep them from defending two-on-one)

I'm having trouble visualizing this, but I guess the takeaway is "grab different stuff until choking happens," which I will definitely be doing.

I'm actually pretty good with arm triangles, ironically. I think the positioning on those lets my shoulder fill in more of the space.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2013 15:24

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Who Gotch Ya posted:

Which part, the one arm/head RNC? I can provide some visuals sometime this weekend if so.
It's not like a go-to move for me or anything but I've caught it a few times when I couldn't get a standard RNC 'cause they were tying up my other arm.

Yeah, I'm having trouble with the hold your head thing. I can't even do hold your foot stuff.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2013 21:31

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

KingColliwog posted:

yeah. I'm mostly a guard player, but against someone who has a good 60 pounds on you, it's never all that fun to be on the bottom. Try to be on top as much as you can. Bigger guys often suck at being on the bottom too so there's an added bonus. When on the bottom, I try to move a lot. Like constantly. You really, really don't want them to get a good hold of you where they can use their weight to pressure you and kill your hips (I mean you never want that, but it's even worst when the guy is bigger).

At lower experience levels, I think it's foolish to try to specialize on being a "guard player". You're putting yourself in a disadvantaged position right off the bat. Focus on learning to get in the most controlling position possible and maintaining it.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2013 06:52

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Senor P. posted:

Unless I'm misreading what you wrote, I disagree. (I agree with the rest of your post, just not the part in bold.)

Pretty much all martial arts instructors/coaches everywhere offer what they offer and it is the student's job to succeed and/or develop their own stuff. The instructor is certainly responsible for teaching you some level of a base skill set, however it is up to the student to actually learn it.

I mean if really want to develop a style on foot and leg locks and I'm not doing all that I want with my coach or current gym. Then it is MY responsibility to go to some seminars, do some research, test some things.

Expecting to be spoon fed is stupid.

A good instructor should recognize your natural strengths and make them stronger. He should recognize your natural weaknesses and help you compensate. I don't understand how you find this to be controversial. I have really good head and arm chokes compared to my other submissions. I've been coached a lot on getting into positions to execute them. At the same time I've been coached a lot on escaping from the bottom because I am not a strong wrestler and I'm big so I'm not super mobile. And yet, somehow, my coaches have supported my unique style of doing lots of arm triangles and d'arces. Also north/south chokes. I worship Jeff Monson

# ¿ Feb 12, 2013 06:24

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Novum posted:

Are your toe-holds any good?

Only when I do them Vitor Belfort style.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2013 07:30

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

always be closing posted:

Training in a gi is larping? Cmon son.

If you're talking about the art's relevance to real life? Yeah, a bit. You're training for a scenario where you're attacked by Hugh Hefner basically. It's not as bad as ninjitsu classes or whatever, but you're definitely training in unrealistic attire as deference to tradition/because it's part of the sport/it lets you do cool chokes.

That said, gis are awesome.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2013 18:17

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

DekeThornton posted:

Isn't the idea behind a GI that it 's a good sturdy form of clothing that you can use in training which simulates everyday clothes? If you, for some strange reason, actually train with real world self defence as a goal, then a gi seems a fair bit more realistic than the rashguards I wear for SW and MMA practise.

As far as competition goes I kind of agree with nemoulette. BJJ guys often seem to claim that to get better at no gi and MMA grappling it is helpful, even essential, to train with a gi as well, but that seems pretty counter intuitive to me. It seems much more efficient to train the actual sport you aim to compete in instead.

You can't really make an assumptions about what a person might be wearing when they attack you (maybe you will be attacked by a naked hobo), so it seems like the most effective training for self-defense would be to train grappling with no additional handles beyond whatever your opponent's body provides.

fake edit: I think I just said that the thing missing from modern grappling is ancient Grecian Olympic wrestling dick-grab throws.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2013 00:40

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

BUY OUR COCONUT WATER GRAPPLING POUCH SO YOU CAN POWER UP ON GRACIE COCONUT WATER WHILE YOU DO GRACIE JIU JITSU WHICH WAS INVENTED BY OUR GRANDFATHER AND OUR UNCLE DID UFC.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2014 20:14

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Gregor Samsa posted:

Yeah, don't worry about this. 5'11" and 180-190 lbs is not that big, anyway. Are you training at an elementary school?

For real. I am significantly bigger than that and my first three months of BJJ were just trying to avoid getting murdered by little 135lb asian dudes. As long as you're not literally spazzing out and flailing your fists at people or something you probably don't have to worry about injuring anyone in training.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2014 15:51

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

an all fruit and coconut water diet will make you invincible and improve your sexual stamina.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2014 19:28

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

david carmichael posted:

if anything we need more deans of mean

my nickname is now the provost of posting

# ¿ Sep 23, 2014 16:41

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

always be closing posted:

THIS. Also, more cyborg.

Cant wait to see Sak though.

Back to badass nicknames, "The Diet Butcher" alex osaka or something.

Alexander Otsuka

# ¿ Sep 24, 2014 23:25

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

I'd like to see Gabi work here way up through the men's weight classes at panams or ADCC. Start with the smallest weight class and then work her way up until she starts losing more frequently. Then she can just compete there for the rest of her career.

I wanna see her against Marcelo.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2014 16:12

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Miching Mallecho posted:

here you go, mute it. Awful music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxX2CRRL9cw

That's great. You can tell he's not even going 50% for most of the video (he lets her reverse him a bunch of times where he clearly just decided it wasn't worth getting hurt if she hulked through the technique) and he still gets on top and (nearly? kinda hard to see from that angle)subs her at the end.

That said, I really want to see what she looks like against the boys in an actual competition and the men are putting in their full effort. I want to see how far a woman can go on hulk strength and average technique.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2014 17:18

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

A Wry Smile posted:

There's no sub- Marcelo's 5m timer goes off, which is why they stop there. And actually I don't think I see Marcelo give her anything intentionally. He's not rolling like that because he's intimidated by her size&strength and worried she'll hurt him, that's just how he moves all the time. He's strategically opposed to struggling, that's the best way I can put it. He's choosing to get swept to his seated guard instead of trying to fight a losing battle and landing in a worse position. That's my interpretation anyway!

Ah, I had the sound off and didn't hear the timer. I know that's Marcelo's style, but I thought I saw a couple spots where if he'd pushed just a little bit he would have taken her back or mounted her. Of course, I'm not Marcelo Garcia so I'm not going to pretend that my analysis is anything greater than amateur speculation.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2014 20:09

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Thoguh posted:

A little late to moralchat, but I only marginally agree. If you're at a high level tournament then I totally agree. The refs are people who know what they are doing, your opponent is someone who knows exactly what they are getting into, and the facilities are probably set up with proper safety areas and all that. Go all out and it is your opponent and the refs responsibility for safety. No issue there.

But if you're at a local tournament and that's your mindset then you're an rear end in a top hat. Especially for white belts. People haven't signed up for unrestricted violence, they've signed up for a competition with the expectation that their opponent will be competing in good faith. You don't have to go out of your way to make sure your opponent is in a safe bubble or something, every type of grappling is a full contact sport and being a jerk within the ruleset is expected. But if you're intentionally finishing moves outside the competition area, not letting up if you're about to barrel into the scorer's table, stuff like that... then you're missing the spirit of the competition and just being a dick.

It's kind of a difficult thing to judge though, like leading with the helmet in football. Sometimes the guy is a dick and trying to spear with his helmet, sometimes someone else bumping him or a rough spot on the playing surface causes him to lower his head. In many cases it's impossible to tell which it is even with slomo replay.

It's kinda the same in grappling. There's a lot of circumstances where the white belt guy could be deliberately trying to break my arm, or he could just have bad technique and lost his balance a bit going for the arm, making it look like he was aggro-cranking when he was really just kinda falling over once he was in position.

I think that unless a competitor has a history of hurting people real bad in minor competitions, I'd like to give folks the benefit of the doubt and assume they're not actually trying to cripple people. It's just a sport where minor imperfections in technique can lead to major injuries.

There's also the case where my opponent's technique isn't good enough to tap me, but I'm also having trouble actually escaping the sub. In that case, it's not unreasonable of him to turn up the pressure to get the sub and it's not unreasonable for me to keep trying to get out. In such a situation, I might get hurt before I can get out. I don't know what to do about that other than to give the referee authority to call a technical submission or something if he thinks I'm clearly stuck, but that would be a huge loving can of worms every time such a call was made.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2014 19:14

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

alright boys, today we're gonna get some fresh air while we roll. what do you mean "but there's broken glass and heroin needles everwhere"? do you think it'll be any better when you're fighting IN THE STREET?

# ¿ Oct 17, 2014 15:23

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

colonel_korn posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt2y5phxb6k

Interesting to see Kos rolling with a high-level black belt. Obviously it's just light sparring but he holds his own.

Josh Koscheck is an extremely competent grappler. He just has GSP syndrome where everyone forgets that he's good at things because GSP beat the hell out of him.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2014 04:54

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 17:42

The MUMPSorceress: Jan 6, 2012; ^SHTPSTS; Gary’s Answer

Kekekela posted:

There's also this handy chart for seeing who trained under who and started different schools:

My instructor was under Helio (alongside Al Bundy) but got his BB from Royce.

the lack of arrows on the graph make it, at first brush, seem like nova uniao may possibly be benjamin buttoning backward to jigoro kano. jiu jitsu is like 4 ballshots on a cliff.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2014 22:35

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Grappling: Grab their foot in a threatening manner, it doesn't cost you anything

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