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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Sprecherscrow posted:

Full ADCC competitors list was released: http://www.mmamania.com/2015/5/17/8...cris-cyborg-mma

-66kg interests me a lot.

Something tells me that Lombard is gonna get DQd for punching someone.

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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Xguard86 posted:

This is a good point but I think when people say "real world practically" they actually mean:

" if me and my untrained friend had a couple of beers and fought in our garage would I win and how easily?"

I did TKD my entire childhood and teenage years and would honestly have to say I am not sure, probably not if they were even a little bigger or played a contact sport. I've done BJJ my entire adult life which is close to the same amount of time these days and its not even a question.

Yeah and that's the wrong question about "real world practicality." I'm adamant that there's no such thing as a street fight, just assaults, because you'll always have someone who is less willing to escalate the violence quite so far, be it through dirty tactics, maiming, calling in friends, or resorting to weapons. There's also nobody around to call it when it's over and prevent someone from getting hurt, and nobody to adjudicate what's "fair."

If you seriously think about it, if you get attacked, and you take his back and get an RNC, and he taps, do you let go? How do you know that the fight is over when you let go? What's to stop him from rolling over and sucker punching you when you relax? Will he do that? What does that fight mean to you? How much danger are you in? What if you don't let go and he dies?

Sounds unrealistic, perhaps, but my old Judo instructor told me an anecdote about a Judo-trained American soldier in the pacific theatre who had a Japanese commando take his back and RNC him in the dark. As he felt himself starting to grey out, he tapped out of desperation. His attacker let go by reflex, and promptly got an American knife in the guts for his mercy. Even if it's not true, and I can't verify it in any way, it's an illustrative parable.

Hundred yard dash, yo. Only true self defense.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Yoga is also great for flexibility, breathing, and focus.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Doesn't Aoki wear grappling pants with that pattern?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

I vote for cup. I've been accidentally kneed in the nads more than once.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

I want a book on the Renzo Gracie school of self defense. Topics include "livetweeting while preparing to commit an assault", "bringing a posse to back you up while getting revenge on a bouncer for a perceived lack of 'hespec'," and "self defense for posterity: rewarding your children for following your awful example."

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

So, I'm switching over from boxing to bjj because a) I've just moved and I'm needing a new fightsport club, and b) I've pretty much hit my celing for boxing for a number of different reasons.

Now this will be the first time in my life I've done dedicated bjj, though I have judo experience and I've trained/crosstrained with guys who have done proper bjj. I understand most of the positions and terminology, and when rolling I can land a decent number of sweeps, passes, and submissions (eg, I successfully d'arced a guy tonight) (also: I tapped 4x for every one time I subbed anyone, just so the d'arce thing doesn't seem like a brag). I can roll without being totally gassed in 2 mins. I know how not to crank a sub and hurt a guy, and I know when to concede a hold even if it doesn't actually hurt so much that I really need out, because it's just practice. I have all of that rudimentary stuff down.

Anyway, I hope to get a blue belt in a fairly nice time frame, and I'm hoping that my previous grapply knowledge in judo &c will give me a headstart on that.

My question for all of you more knowledgable folk is thus: what are the important things for me to be working on at this stage, if I want to improve steadily? Should I be drilling certain types of positions? Sweeps? Should I be thinking positions in series? Should I be considering training from a stylistic/strategic perspective this early on? (by that I mean picking a small handful of positions I like and train to do everything to end up in those positions). I know that mat time is probably the most important thing, but I'd like to be using that mat time as effectively as I can.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

fatherdog posted:

Write down each position, then write down all the moves you know that you can do when in that position. Pick 2 of them, the ones you feel most comfortable with, and whenever you get in that position immediately alternate between those two moves. Get yourself to the point that no matter what position you get in, you're immediately going for something without having to stop and think about it.

Great! Thanks! This sounds like a good way to go. Just off the top of my head I can think of a few positions where I can do that already (eg, if someone has me in front headlock position, I have two good moves that I have acceptable success rates on), some where I have one, and some where I find myself stopping and thinking. Organizing my knowledge will help, because it will better help me to identify holes, which I can then put effort into filling.

Kind of following that, in the past I've often gone to the Stephan Kesting vids when I've been researching positions, especially his "Fighting Bigger Opponents" series (because I'm ~150 lb and getting tossed around or knee-on-chested by someone who is 250 lb sucks). How do you find him generally, and that series, specifically?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

I just made myself a document for either side of the 6 basic positions (guard/half/side/mount/back/head). The funny thing is that the positions where I have stonger moves also tend to be the ones in which I was able to think of fewer options overall. I.e., I know lots of things that I can do when someone is in my full guard, but they all tend to be pretty low percentage for me. I'm sure as I roll more I'll start subdividing the various positions.

Looks like the first holes that I will want to fill will be both sides of full guard and what to do when in someone else's half guard.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

KildarX posted:

If you feel like you're not moving well, what helped me was grabbing a partner and do "flow" rolling where you don't look for submissions you and your partner are just looking to move through the positions, without breaking "contact".

http://www.jiujitsubrotherhood.com/...l-for-jiu-jitsu <- Pretty much this.

Oh poo poo that seems amazing and way more productive than getting triangled over and over. I'm going to try to get a partner to do that on Saturday.

By the way, after two consecutive evenings on the mat, my chest, back, and shoulders feel as if I did a full compound lift workout, my chest especially.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Kekekela posted:

To give context to my second edit above, and because this really needs its own post:


This happened, in an ADCC finals match, vs Lucas mothofockin' Lepri:



I can't even wrap my head around this, let around it happening in a top-flight elite context

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Captain Log posted:

Here is my question I asked about a few pages ago for people who train more than Jiu Jitsu that has bugged me forever.

Most of you know I'm not likely to get back in to Muay Thai/MMA/BJJ sparring ever again because of health things. But when I did I desperately wanted to do things southpaw even though I'm right handed because I actually had a lot of fencing experience where your dominant hand is your lead hand/leg. But my coach at the time (2008/2009) was super against this and flipped his poo poo when I sparred and tried to switch stances. Was this a weird bug he had up his rear end or is it really a cardinal sin to have someone train a different stance from their dominant hand? I never really knew why that was such a big deal and thought you guys who have actual experience might be able to illuminate me.

I appreciate your input. Also, someone posted finally getting a purple belt or a brown belt a few months ago. How is everyone progressing? I started following this thread almost a year ago and would be curious to know how the people that started around then are moving forward.

Weird bug up his rear end imho. I've seen several coaches just ask novices "how do you swing a baseball bat/golf club/hockey stick/shovel." Why should he care if you're using the stance that you find comfortable, if you're using that stance correctly?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

origami posted:

Coincidentally it looks like Ryan Hall is on the next season of TUF with Conor and Faber

http://www.foxsports.com/watch/the-...nnounced-083115

I thought I heard a rumor about that before but wasn't sure it was ever confirmed. I know he's been working his wrestling so hopefully he can style on a few guys.

I just came here to ask if it was the grapply Ryan Hall

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Kekekela posted:

Going through Jiu Jitsu University again for the first time in a couple years. I really wasn't expecting to get a whole lot out of a reread, but I've been really amazed how many good tips I'm getting out of it that more or less flew over my head when I was first starting out.

I got a copy last week. I've only read the intro and first chapter (besides giving the "submissions" chapter a browse) and already people are complimenting me on how good my defense has gotten in a short span.

Though some blue belts yelled at me for trying to get to the "scoop."

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

KildarX posted:

What's "The Scoop"?

It's a defensive position in back control. It works by sliding yourself lower down your opponent's hips so that you can spread your feet and achieve a wider base to prevent being rolled, and so that your opponent has to hold himself up to reliably attack you.

Decades posted:

Is that the sitting back escape where he kinda slumps down into it to release the hooks? I also found that one a little funny, compared to the usual "two on one, pass arm over your head, get your shoulders on the mat" escape. Fantastic book in any case though.

Yeah I don't have the book handy, but I think he has that under his list of "do not do this defense" defenses with the comment that anyone who is really good at back control will have your neck as soon as you hit the two-on-one. Also, the "white belt" section is full of defensive positions and not escapes.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Decades posted:

True. I also do not have the book handy. In any case to be clear it should go without saying that I trust there's extensive reasoning behind it and would not try and correct Saulo loving Ribeiro.

Why did the blue belts correct you exactly? They were just unfamiliar with the position?

Yeah they assumed I was doing a bad job of turning into my opponent, and then said that if I went that low and turned I'd get triangled. I didn't argue with them and say "well I was doing something else..." because I'm a white belt and I'm there to learn.

I now have the book handy:

Saulo loving Ribero posted:

Arm Pull Escape
As in the previous posture, I have mistakenly bridged back into Xande, and I am still completely under the control of his over and under grip. Some try to use this technique to pull their opponent off them by grabbing his arm like a shoulder throw. Although this strategy can sometimes pull your opoponent off the Back, it is strength dependant. A wise opponent will simply seize the moment and control with his grip or transition to a choking technique.

This is a good point for the position I was in that time too, because the guy on me was 30 lbs bigger and way stronger than me. I cannot even break the guy's grips when he has my gi unless I'm 100% fresh in my arms.

Ribero also has remarks about how going to the side can result in being trapped and so forth. Checking his "Escapes" section, his back escape to full guard doesn't involve two-on-one on the arm. Rather, he uses the elbow to open a path and turn into the opponent.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

02-6611-0142-1 posted:

I've been doing the scoop since I was a beginner, and I've only recently started going for the 2-on-1 thing. I feel like the scoop takes you from a terrible position to one that's merely bad, but the 2-on-1 gives you a darce and dominant position, so I'm willing to accept a greater degree of risk.

Tell you what I loving love though, the armbar escapes from that book. Triangling your arms together and then grabbing their legs? I love that.

ohhhhh poo poo it does!

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

I got to play around with a high-(ish)-level competitive judoka yesterday a bit. Was a good time. Much of my experience was seeing the throws he was going to land on me come from a mile away and not being able to do anything to stop them.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Congratulations!

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Any of you more experienced guys use any of the defense soap products? The MRSA mention in the UFC thread got me thinkign about it. At first I was like "$6 for a bar of soap? Fuuuck that." But this week I ended up having to pay $45 for some cloxacillin and hyrocortisone cream for the empatago I picked up (yes, I shower after rolling - it looks like it got into my razor burn and a small grease burn on my arm).

Does that poo poo actually work better than regular soap or cheaper alternatives?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Ok I'm going to do the following:

1. Make sure I always have long-sleeved rash guard for no gi, and at least short-sleeved under a gi.
2. Always spats or gi pants.
3. Get downright obsessive about post-rolling showers. Gonna buy some tea tree soap tonight, as that appears to be the "Active" ingredient in defense soap, and I'll look for the chlorohexadine gluconate.
4. Get something topical to clean any serious gi burn, scratches or other sores that I might have, as that's where the cooties got in this time (also like the last time that I had impatego, which was 15 years ago and not grappling related.)

This means that I need to buy one or two more long-sleeved rash guards and probably one more pair of spats.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

WayneCampbell posted:

I've seen two studies on this (tea tree oil) as far as the efficacy of treating/preventing mrsa and the one study said there was no difference between it and a placebo and the other found a minor but not statistically significant difference vs a placebo. Dr bronner's is slightly cheaper and as far as I can tell by smell it contains way more tea tree oil per bar.

As far as using a chlorohexidine soap, I think it might be best to reserve that for after meets/tournaments as you're killing off ALL the bacteria on your skin. Good and bad.

Edit: Maybe I'm full of poo poo about tea tree oil not being effective http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...195670104000167

Yeah the wikipedia page gave a precis on how tea trea oil sometimes looks about as good as a placebo. I got this stuff:

http://puresoapworks.com/tea_tree.htm

I'm not viewing it as a solution on its own, but rather one precaution in concert with a series of other ones. The cholorhexadine for once ina while sounds like a good idea. I couldn't find any last time I went out, but I'll try again.

Meanwhile, I googled "cholorohexadine soap" and the first page of results included an image of someone fisting a chicken:

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Xguard86 posted:

Agree. I actually went to purple under a guy with an extremely regimented curriculum. People (and me) bitched about it being too basic and repetitive. When I started traveling, I attended a similar gym and realized how much faster I was growing before moving to a more chaotic environment. Felt really thankful I had that run because I got further in less time, even if it was a grind sometimes.

I think "good teaching" is actually more about a process than what you do in a single lesson.

Now I'm training with a guy who's really consistent with his themes and focus. It's revolutionizing my game.

I'm in a pretty "relaxed" "here's a demo, do it 5 times, then go roll" place. Is there any way that I could realistically impose a curriculum on myself, between books, personal practice, and asking questions of the instructors? Or does it not work that way?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Xguard86 posted:

I think you could. And to a certain extent everyone is responsible for their own training so you should have some idea. But are the things being shown consistent with each other? Do you see the techniques multiple times a week? If yes I think you're ok. It's the hodgepodge that you see for 30 minutes and never again that I am talking about.

Oh yeah we see things over again. I think I've done arm bars and gichokes from half mount four times since the end of August. They're consistent with each other too, at least within any given class. What we get at the main class isn't always consistent with what we get at the ad hoc off-day class for crazy people who can't get enough BJJ.

I'd just like to see a list of stuff that I should learn/practice before moving on to another list of stuff.

I just googled "Gracie barra curriculum." I'm a dumbass.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

At jits last night I subbed two people who I had never subbed before!

Also re: skin infections. I've started a conversation with an actual nurse on the topic. I'm getting lots of information. I might do an effort post on it soon, if people are interested.

Re: defense soap - she looked it up and at its claims and she says that literally any soap, at least one that is non-scented, could make all of the same claims.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug


Neat - thanks. The nurse had a few things to add to that about the effectiveness of specific cleaning agents and the process of prevention. She works less from a "bacterial researcher" perspective and more from a "how do we keep patients from getting medicine-resistant infections and dying" perspective, so I'll probably still do the effort post, but I'll incorporate information from that article as well. My nurse friend just also offered to get a doctor to review what I end up writing, too.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Keg posted:

There are lots of videos of gangly nerds from bullshido beating up seniors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuIDycD0aeo

This is the martial arts equivalent of Internet Atheism.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

canada jezus posted:

Is there a deal with bjj and acai berries? My gyms FB group is going loco over a dude selling 30 dollars cases of acai.

One of the old-school Gracies invented this whole cult-like diet regimen for his family/students, and it heavily emphasized "Native Brazilian Foods," such as acai.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Keg posted:

Just eat some blueberries, honestly. Or saskatoon berries if you want something with more fibre so you can call it a superfood.

Actually, do they sell Saskatoon berries outside of the Canadian prairies?

They're called... I think June Berries in some other places?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

In Ancient Rome pink had a connotation of a grizzled dangerous man. Red dye was reserved mostly for legionaires, but becuase clothing was expensive, it wasn't replaced often. A legionaire's red would fade to pink with time, so seeing a man in a pink garment meant that he was a seasoned combat veteran of multiple campaigns and a deadly, trained killer.

You know, like Gene Lebell.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

You know, this discussion made me just wonder what rank Judo Gene has, and his wikipedia page says that he's a 10th dan, which made me go "woah," but there's no mention of him at all on the list of notable judoka on wikipedia, which page also asserts that "only 32 or 33 people have ever been promoted to 10th dan."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_judoka

Apparently the 10th dan came from the "World Martial Arts Masters Association" or something? And I go to their website, and it looks to me like they just hand out higher ranks with mail order certificates to anyone who has had a belt for a long time:

http://martialartsmastersassociation.com/

Can anyone else shed light on this?

(I'm not disputing that Gene LeBell is a badass, I'll put that here, but this is some fishy poo poo)

e. here's one of their certificates:


The dragons have convinced me that they're a legitimate organization.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

very nice

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Congrats!

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Is this grading season in BJJ? My instructor hinted to me that some grading might be happening soon, too (a stripe! ), when Curtis Brigham comes and does a clinic with us next month.

I feel like I've been making progress, though. I've subbed a few classmates who I've never gotten before, and I've had my first taste of "this is way too easy" against some really new guys who came in. Of course that's getting mixed with healthy doses of humility. I rolled with a female classmate who I had never paired up with and I have absolutely no idea how she gets her legs through spaces she does. "Oh! I got her leg past my shin! Well I can just knee slice down and settle... back into her full guard."

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Thoguh posted:

I've never understood BJJ's obsession with instructor lineage. Judo is only a generation older and I don't think I've ever heard anybody ever ask how people trace back to Kano. With competition being a proving ground for effectiveness of both instructor and student why does it matter?

Because Judo doesn't have a cult of personality built around a specific family that rose to prominence via a popular PPV strategy, and because by all accounts which I've seen Kano was a pretty chill dude who wasn't really interested in self-promotion.

e. also because there aren't that many people out there claiming to be fake Judo black belts. Mind you there are people like Ali Abdel-Aziz or (sad to say) Gene Lebell who make claims of having ridiculously high ranks in Judo, but because of the way the Kodokan is structured, it's quick and easy to see whether the centralized Judo academy awarded them that rank (pro tip: if the person claiming to be a red belt or higher rank isn't a septuagenarian Japanese person, it's fake).

fake second edit to clarify what I'm saying about Judo Gene: I checked his rank one day out of curiosity, and his wikipedia page claims a 10th dan but it was awarded by an American organization that produces rank certificates for any martial art based on years of participation and puts clipart dragons on them. I'm not saying that Judo Gene is a fraud or that his judo isn't legit cool, I'm just saying that he's not an actual 10th dan in Judo by any real criteria.

CommonShore fucked around with this message at Dec 15, 2015 around 18:50

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Thoguh posted:

Is it USMAA? Because that was some guy getting mad about the politics surrounding being awarded high ranks in Judo and responded by creating an association that would give any rank to anybody, in any art, that was willing to send them a check.

Yeah. Exactly.

Really any dan beyond 5th has to do more with involvement in high-level instruction, coaching, and the operations of the Kodokan as an institution in japan and worldwide than it does have anything to do with good judo knowledge or badassery. To get butthurt over those ranks is silly, and any process of creating "competing independent" ranking systems is pretty much kids yelling "infinity plus two!" at each other.

Sprecherscrow posted:

If Gene Lebell is not 10th dan by any criteria, then make new criteria.

The thing is there have been like 30 Kodokan 10th dans, ever. 10th dan is almost a bureaucratic/status rank like Cardinal in the Catholic church, except there are more Cardinals.

CommonShore fucked around with this message at Dec 15, 2015 around 20:53

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Welllp. Time for another week of injury downtime. This time my neck/back popped like 8 times (sounded like someone stepping on peanut shells really slowly) as I was getting inverted. I can't even remember the position, but my neck and shoulders were down and my partner's weight was on top of me.

gently caress's sake. I love this sport but I'm perpetually hurt from it. This happens just as my shoulder is starting to feel better after a week of downtime, and before that it was my ribs. It's always when I'm rolling with the blue belts.

My instructor has said that I'm not allowed to roll with anyone bigger than me anymore ("the twitchy big guys"), so that means I have like 3 white belts, 1 blue belt, and 1 purple belt to train with.





CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

manyak posted:

Do you lift or do any kind of sport specific strength/mobility stuff like neck bridges etc? Could be worth getting more serious about if you get hurt that often

I've stopped lifting in the last few months since I moved to a new town. I do neck/shoulder bridges &c in my warmups. I want to say it's because these guys are 50-60 lbs bigger than me and don't give a gently caress. Idunno. I guess I can do more strength/mobility workouts, but there are only so many hours in a day. The head instructor was really doing his best to keep me positive, but he could probably see it in my eyes that I was thinking about quitting in that moment.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

Rationale posted:

Maybe stop inverting? Or training.

I'm trying to remember exactly what happened. I wasn't hanging out in the inversion position. He flipped me over that way. IIRC I was in turtle, and he was behind me, and I was trying to roll away and he just like squashed me as I was rolling.

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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014




Pillbug

IT BEGINS posted:

Don't know if this is the position you were in, but I've seen someone injure themselves in a very similar way. They rolled directly forwards instead of over their shoulder and thus got their neck and back crushed instead of just getting twisted into side control.

The roll was over my shoulder, but I got like mashed down onto my neck as I went because the guy I was rolling with kinda like... dove on me. Probably the same injury.

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