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Took me a bit to find this thread, the name has changed since I last poked my head in. Anyway, FPV dronin'. Now that the kids are a bit older and I have the suggestion of free time I've decided to go dig out my setup out of the garage and try and make an effort to actually use this stuff. It's been half a decade since I've even really thought about any of it and I barely used it back then much less understood it. I'm hoping to get some pointers as I take stock of where I am vs where things are now. My objective: Enjoy the thrill of flight (in the first person) with minimal to no property damage and injury; preferably targeting "bang for the buck" until/if I get far enough into it being a thing that I can justify expenditures to the boss. My kit as it stands: Controller: Taranis Q X7S Goggles: FatShark Dominator V3 w/ some square antenna thingy. Drone: TinyHawk 1 (apparently they're up to 3 now. Neat.) Misc: Inscrutable chargers for the drone lipo battery and fatshark battery. MacBook and the vague memory of something called Betaflght. My problem: I am above all things a goddamn idiot and electricity scares me in a "fire bad" sort of way. My brain refuses to comprehend volts and amps and so on despite years of trying to learn it. I also haven't touched this in an entire pandemic and a couple of kids so I've like regressed back to before I even decided to look into this stuff in the early fall of 2019. I'd like to start up again and I'm not really married to any of the kit above. Is what I have "good enough" or am I potentially missing out on anything by sticking with this for now? I understand digital goggles have gotten quite good. I'm fine with spending a hair more if needed for ease of use or quality of life, but would prefer to keep the wife happy if at all possible. Additionally if anyone has general pointers of write-ups/guides I can refer to I'd appreciate the referrals. I've grabbed a few youtube videos that appear to fit my use case but personal anecdotes are appreciated.
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Apr 21, 2024 03:16
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Although your stuff is probably no longer cutting edge, it is all bound to eachother and properly set up. There is no need to upgrade anything until you reach the limits of what your gear can offer. You could switch to ELRS but that would require a new radio and receiver at minimum. Or maybe your receiver is integrated in your flight controller and you'd have to swap out the entire thing. This would mean losing all your UART settings and channel binds and PIDs etc. Unless you're one of those weirdos who enjoys soldering and programming more than actually flying you don't really have a reason to change anything on your quad at this time. You are entirely justified in your fear of electricity and fire. Lithium batteries have an energy density greater than that of gasoline. Name one other "explodes on contact with water" object you keep in your house.  If I were in your situation I would invest in a bat-safe. https://www.amazon.ca/Bat-Safe-Lipo-Lithium-Battery-Charging-Safe/dp/B0CHHXJQ26 It's overkill for the little 1S batteries that go in a tinyhawk, but when it comes to safety, overkill is good. If that doesn't blow your upgrade budget, you might consider buying a smart charger that includes a "storage" function. Most batteries like to be stored completely full but lithium batteries are weird and like to be kept at like 30%. This is hard to eyeball. https://www.amazon.ca/ISDT-608AC-Battery-Charger-Discharger/dp/B0B4DBZ9DK This is a good beginner friendly charger because you just have to be able to read to use it. You just need to know the difference between the words "charge" "storage" and "discharge". If you feel like you can remember "3v=empty, 3.7V=storage and 4.2V=full" you might be better served with https://rotorvillage.ca/vifly-whoopstor-3-white-1s-storage-charger/ because it will charge multiple batteries at the same time - safely. (You can charge multiple batteries at once unsafely with something called a "parallel charge board" https://www.amazon.ca/Parallel-Battery-Charging-Batteries-Chargers/dp/B0BCWX1G3C/ which is dangerous because the charger can't address each individual cell and if you have one I suggest you throw it away). Storage charging is important because batteries left at their storage voltage will last longer and are less likely to spontaneously combust. If your batteries have been sitting since 2019 they're probably not in good condition and you may want to replace them. Here is a 10-pack that shares the same JST-PH 2 connector as the tinyhawk2 uses: https://rotorgeeks.com/batteries-chargers/1s/gnb-1s-450mah-80c-ph-20-10-pack?filter=45 You may need to consult your instruction manual and verify that the your Tinyhawk 1 uses the same connector. Or compare it to this picture: 
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Apr 21, 2024 04:48
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DreadLlama posted:Name one other "explodes on contact with water" object you keep in your house. Our 2 year old when we want to wash her hair  . But thank you for the writeup. I think I may pick up one of those smart chargers as I do not trust the usb stick thing that came with the TH one single bit. I'll likely head over to the local hobby store and get a new bat stick or two, and maybe a battery tester as well because why not. Thankfully everything is still connected and happy from the last time I had this powered on so I'm more or less ready to roll.Is there a good place to review a "default" config for Betaflight and controller bindings? Be that a "tune" or just general control bindings. I'm double checking what the dumbfuck from a few years back did, but so long as we're cleaning house I may as well ask. Edit: This seems promising https://projectmockingbird.squarespace.com/pmb-setup-guides/tinyhawkv4 Warbird fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Apr 21, 2024 |
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Apr 21, 2024 05:16
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Warbird posted:. I'll likely head over to the local hobby store and get a new bat stick or two, and maybe a battery tester as well because why not. Most decent digital chargers will also give you the information that a battery tester would give you, saving you the extra purchase
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Apr 21, 2024 14:11
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Let's talk batteries for a moment. As previously mentioned, I dumbass. As far as purchasing batteries for this platform, what numbers am I trying to hit/match beyond just making sure it has a JST-PH 2 (or the ability to adapt to/connect to to the battery)? The 1S cell that came with it is rated for 4.35 volts at 80c/160c (which is apparently 450 mAH per the packaging). The fellow at the local hobby store seemed a bit surprised and said it was rated a bit oddly. I don't need a rundown of EE concepts (I can, and am, googling that and trying to force myself to comprehend), but what would be a good rule of thumb to target when sourcing batteries to make sure compatibility is there? Match the Volts and you're more or less good? I know you get different performance and outputs based off of the inputs in this case, so just broadly speaking is fine. Secondly, what a general guidelines in regards to charging? I've got one of the linked chargers showing up today, but I'm trying to better understand the numbers here. As best I understand it, any number that is at or below the given amperage of the battery can and will charge it, with lower amps taking longer but in theory preserving battery health. To that end: This FatShark battery pack I have is a LiPo 7.4volt with 1800mAh. To use that properly with the Prophet Sport Mini I grabbed to charge it I'd want that set to LiPo at 2 amps of charging, correct? (The charger isn't happy with that, but that's almost certainly due to this battery pack being pretty ancient and not stored properly in a garage for several years.)
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Apr 22, 2024 17:47
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You have encountered the "c" rating. "c" refers to the amount of current your battery can deliver, or ought to be charged at. The important number to remember when calculating "c" is "1". 1 x battery's capacity in Amp hours (Ah) = 1c. Or alternatively, "0.001". 0.001 x battery's capacity in milliamp hours (mAh) = 1c. For a battery with a capacity of 1.8Ah (or 1800mAh), 1c = 1.8amps. This is irrespective of voltage. (The volts do matter, but the charger does the math for you. So you can ignore "watts = volts x amps" etc. for now). For a battery with a capacity of 0.45Ah (or 450mAh), 1c = 0.45amps. My charger can't do two decimal places and odds are yours can't either. So for a 450mAh battery just charge at 0.4A (or 0.5A if you're in a hurry). The 7.4V battery has two cells instead of one, so it's called a "2S" battery. When you charge it at 1.8A, the charger delivers 1.8A at 7.4V which would be 13.32Watts. If it were a 1S battery, the charger would deliver 1.8A at 3.2V, which would be 5.76W. You don't need to know this yet. But know that the charger senses the voltage and adjusts accordingly. Later if you build a larger drone with big batteries you may need to check that the wattage of the charger you buy for it is sufficient to charge them. But don't worry about it for now. As for compatibility, one important variable you might be overlooking is the battery dimensions and weight.  I google image searched "tinyhawk battery holder" and this was among the results. "Does X battery physically fit inside the battery holder?" is one of the questions you should know the answer to before spending money on a battery. Also there's weight. If you're thinking of getting more flight time by going from a 450mAh battery to a 1000mAh battery, you'll need to remember that the larger battery weighs more. In fact larger batteries might give you pretty much the same flight time as a smaller battery, because it takes more power to lift more weight, draining the battery faster. "Does it fit?" and "How much more does it weigh?" are important considerations. Also if you go for a really big battery you can risk overheating your motors. Like, you could get a bunch of 18650 batteries and wire them up in a 1s12p pack, but never be able to lift it and burn out your motors in the attempt. Don't do this:  At 4.35V, what you have is an LiHV battery. That's "lithium high voltage". If the guy at your shop is used to regular LiPo batteries that shouldn't ever be above 4.2,V he would likely consider them odd. 4.2V is what "normal" batteries sit at when full. The 80c/160c is referring to the discharge part of the c rating. It's how many amps the battery can deliver without damaging itself. For a 450mAh battery, 1c = 0.45a. Multiply 1c by 80c to get the amps the battery can deliver. So 0.45 x 80 = 36a. That battery can sustain delivery of 36amps (until it is discharged) without damage. The 2nd number is the "burst" rating. If you do a roll or a flip or are catching yourself at the end of a powerloop or whatever, the battery can deliver 160c for short bursts without hurting itself. To calculate how many amps that is, multiply 160 by 0.45. 72. The battery can deliver 72amps for short periods. Size, weight, voltage, capacity. Stick with "1s" batteries that physically fit inside your drone and you're 95% of the way there. If you accidentally buy batteries with the wrong connector you can snip them off and solder on new ones. "1s" refers to "one cell." After you wrap your head around this concept it's easier and more consistent to use "cell count" than "voltage" because (as you have already discovered) different battery chemistries lead to different nominative cell voltages, and additionally you will encounter batteries being referred to by their "full" voltage as well as their "storage" voltage. The LiHV battery is full at 4.35V, the Lipo is full at 4.2V, and the Li-Ion is full at 4.1V. Storage voltages are 3.8V(LiHV), 3.7V(Lipo/Li-ion). The 7.4V battery that goes in your FatShark is what's called a "2s" battery and can have a voltage between 5.6V and 8.4V. (Please try to keep it above 6.0V however). But 7.4V could refer to a very discharged 3s Li-ion battery as well. Cell count gives you an idea of the voltage the battery pack ought to have, while raw voltage itself does not.
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Apr 22, 2024 21:19
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Apr 22, 2024 21:27
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The easiest way to think of "C" ratings is that 1C is the amount of current it would take to fully charge or discharge a given battery in 1 hour. This means that, theoretically, you could beat the hell out of 60C battery by using its entire capacity in one minute. In practice, I don't think I've ever seen a once-healthy battery last less than 2 1/2 minutes and not puff. "C" ratings are heavily fudged and more of a marketing point than anything and are used mostly to describe their capability and intended application. Still, I wouldn't use a 25C-rated battery in an application that calls for 75C. Zorilla fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 02:36
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In an exciting development I plugged in my LiPo into what is apparently the balancing pins of this 608AC and now I don't have batteries anymore! Yay! god. (Given the age this is no real loss, annoying though.) So I need a XT60 to JST-PH 2 dongle or the like. Good to know. New batteries get here tomorrow.
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Apr 23, 2024 15:49
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That is definitely a thing that exists and I apologize for not thinking of it before you found out the hard way. https://vi.aliexpress.com/i/32978253087.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2vnm XT60 Female to JST male: Yes  XT60 Male to JST Female: No Amazon will get it to you faster but for 10x the cost: Edit: Other potential issues: Set your battery chemistry and current.   According to the manual the 608ac will warn you for plugging in a battery without a balance lead connected, but will not warn you about plugging in a balance lead without a battery connected. Sorry about your loss. DreadLlama fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Apr 23, 2024 |
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Apr 23, 2024 17:14
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It's all good, there were going to be causalities no matter what so I'm hoping this hit my quote for a bit. I got a dongle set that I suspect is from the exact same manufacturer from Amazon that will be here the same day as the batteries so no harm no foul. For reference I grabbed these which appear by all account to fit and be a reasonable weight for what I'm up to. For the sake of not purchasing more equipment already and incurring the wraith of my wife, I'm going to want: Chemistry: LiPo Condition: 4.20V (Not entirely sure why it's this and not 3.8V like the packaging, but w/e) Cells: 1S Current: 1.0A (????????????) Correct? Please bear with me. I can usually figure stuff out once I have a good frame of reference to do comparisons to. And after reviewing the Project Mockingbird Specs it appears I already did all that some years back and forgot. So I should be off and doing stupid stuff fairly quickly once the batts come in.
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Apr 23, 2024 17:40
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GNB is a good brand. They're lighter than Gens Ace/Tattu for the same capacity, (but typically have a slightly lesser c rating). I think they're the best possible choice you could have made. quote:4pcs 450mAh 1S HV LiPo Battery I recommend you switch the chemistry to "LiHV". You bought the fancy batteries, so you may as well use them. Also (I'm not sure about this): Your storage and discharged voltages might be different for a LiHV vs. a regular Lipo. Not charging them up all the way is fine (you'll just have less flight time), but discharging them too far is absolutely not something you should want to do. Current: Your batteries are 450mAh. 1c (the optimal charge rate) is 0.45A. Charging at 1.0A would be a little over 2c for them. They wouldn't like that. You didn't ask, but: Watch these videos. Use your judgement before showing any to your wife. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzzz91n06Gs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAAxeXhmQuE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtZtdLVNWDM https://www.amazon.com/Garvee-Flammable-Cabinet-Hazardous-Adjustable/dp/B0CQ4ZCB7Y https://www.amazon.com/BAT-SAFE-Mini-LiPo-Battery-Charging/dp/B083KPLYMW You know her well enough to judge if she'd let you buy just one more thing, or just kick your drone equipment out of the house. Personally my bat safe lives inside my flammable storage cabinet, and each battery has its own lipo bag inside the safe. Lipos aren't like wood or oil. They're more like gunpowder. The fuel and oxidizer are already present in stoichiometric ratios. Stepping on a lipo fire or beating it with a blanket don't do anything. You can cover them with sand to absorb the heat and gas from the reaction, but you can't stop it. Bat safes are designed to vent hot gasses but otherwise contain soot and debris. Some people use ammo storage cans instead of bat safes. They're cheaper: https://www.amazon.com/Fortress-Caliber-Metal-Ammo-Can/dp/B01LYVW7DQ but just remove the rubber gasket. You don't want gasses to build up inside the can. High pressure + high temperature + enclosed space = bomb. In summary: Chemistry: Condition: 4.20V (this is what the batteries are currently at according to the charger. It will change. It should be between 4.35 and 3.7~ish) Cells: 1S Current:
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Apr 23, 2024 18:45
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Luv 2 have little electrical bombs shipped 2 me by Amazon Appreciate the write up
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Apr 24, 2024 02:32
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Btw: I recommend against setting your charger to LiHv mode with a LiPo connected; this may lead to a thermal event.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:59
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I ordered the wrong cable dongle dohickey because of course I did so we have a few days until the replacement shows up; plenty of time to hash this out. Are these not LiHv batteries? Per this listing: "Capacity450 mAh, Voltage: 3.80V/4.35V, Connector: JST-PH 2.0 AKA Powerwhoop, mCPX" which would put that as a LiHv battery as I understand it. Warbird fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Apr 24, 2024 |
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Apr 24, 2024 21:35
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That is correct, they are LiHV. I think Dom is saying make sure to change that setting when charging your 2S or other "normal" lipos
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Apr 24, 2024 23:40
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That is my bad. I linked an XT60 to JST cable. Not XT60 to JST-PH 2.0. It would probably be for the best if someone who knows what they're talking about jumped in and helped you. But, As far as I know 4.35V means LiHV and nothing else. The batteries you linked explicitly stated LiHV in the description. I could be wrong again. But that's how I read it. If it were me, I would spend $10 on JST-PH 2.0 pigtails: https://www.amazon.ca/Upgraded-Connector-Battery-Inductrix-Eachine/dp/B07NWD5NTN, $8 on XT60 pigtails https://www.amazon.ca/Female-Connector-Adapter-Silicone-Accessory/dp/B0CD397T4V, and $10 on marrettes https://www.amazon.ca/Lever-Connectors-Assemblable-Compact-Conductor/dp/B09TPB66K2. (I'm assuming you don't have a soldering iron). Connect the connector that definitely fits in the charger to the connector that definitely fits on the battery. Red to red and black to black. edit: between the charger and the battery. Not between the drone and the battery. A more expensive but arguably better option would be to buy ViFly charger that's designed for 1s LiHV ST-PH 2.0 batteries https://www.amazon.ca/SoloGood-WhoopStor-Discharger-Function-Tinywhoop/dp/B0CHJG2DZC, and return the ISDT608AC. You won't have to worry about getting the polarity on your wires wrong, it's not going to fall apart when your back is turned, and it's a multi charger. But unlike the ISDT608AC it lacks power supply. So you have to buy one https://www.amazon.ca/Battery-Charger-Adapter-100%E2%80%91240V-Professional/dp/B0B3Y3JGDG But again, I'm the guy who doesn't know the difference between JST and JST-PH 2.0. If someone else disagrees with me, definitely listen to them. edit: clarification DreadLlama fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 00:28
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That red connector is often referred to informally as "JST", but JST is a whole manufacturer (Japan Solderless Terminal)., so that can introduce a lot of confusion. The official name of it is JST RCY and it doesn't see a lot of use outside the toy grade space because it just doesn't have the current delivery needed for most applications. My old KingKong ET125 2S had one, and it somehow performed well despite the connector, but I'm sure a switch to XT30 would have helped. Other common JST connectors include:
Another connector worth mentioning is the Molex 51005/51006 (male and female have unique numbers). These are often referred to as Micro Losi due to its common use on that manufacturer's RC cars, but can be seen on many other (mostly) toy grade models. My XK K110 3D helicopter came with this, but its battery tray conveniently fits high performance 450mAh LiHV whoop batteries, so I eventually put a JST-PH 2.0 connector on it so it could really scream. Zorilla fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 01:52
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I didn't jump on cause DreadLlama was giving good and correct info! Personally, the USB multi charger that came with the Tinyhawk is perfectly fine for the HV batts. A lot of the more general big wattage chargers won't even do a 1S, since it won't charge over the balance connection and there wouldn't be anything connected to the main XT60 output. Or the opposite, if there's no balance cable = no charge, at least on the IDST I have. You'll still want that for your headset and possibly transmitter, if it has a rechargeable.
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Apr 25, 2024 02:01
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DreadLlama posted:
This would add a lot of weight, the TH doesn't have much payload capacity. Keep the JSTs, they are much lighter than XT30
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Apr 25, 2024 02:08
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Many hobby chargers will do 1S, but it's not always a guarantee, so you'll want to make sure it's advertised if that's a feature you're looking for. The ISDT Q6 I used to have could charge 1S, but it wouldn't display voltage down to the hundredth of a volt unless you built a cable that bridged the discharge lead to the balance port (Don't do this. I put a 2A fuse inline on mine to prevent catastrophe). My current HTRC C240 will also happily charge 1S, but it needs to be set to "Charge" and not "Balance Charge" or it will complain that the battery is disconnected. I have one of those cheapo blue CellMeter 8 battery testers that is supposed to do 2S-8S, but I've found that it had no trouble with 1S if I used a JST-PH to XH (balance port) adatper I built. The backlight works at full brightness and everything. It's greatly appreciated in the field, or at home when trying to figure out which batteries I can safely bridge together to parallel charge. Some people are sketched out by the USB chargers that come with some models like the Mobula6 and TinyHawk series, but they've been fine for me. They tend to cut off early (like ~4.28V instead of 4.35V), but that's like 5 seconds of flight time, so who cares. CloFan posted:This would add a lot of weight, the TH doesn't have much payload capacity. Keep the JSTs, they are much lighter than XT30 The Tinyhawk is already kind of a fat pig, so I don't know how switching to XT30 would affect it. It seems to be a pretty common mod, but I would have the same inhibitions about adding weight. I'd be more inclined to switch to BT2.0 or GNB27 if I had concerns about PH 2.0's longevity (its main drawback is that the pins get oxidized quite rapidly and needs to be replaced frequently). When shopping for pigtails, make sure the wire insulator is silicone and not PVC. Far too many sellers on eBay, AliExpress, and elsewhere have the cheap PVC stuff and it will feel really cheap and stiff compared to silicone wire, not to mention it will melt really easily when trying to solder it. Zorilla fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 02:26
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Hm, makes me wonder if I just missed a setting when trying it. I ended up building a harness that treats 6 1S batts as a single 6S so that I could charge faster
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Apr 25, 2024 02:30
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Zorilla posted:That red connector is often referred to informally as "JST", but JST is a whole manufacturer (Japan Solderless Terminal)., so that can introduce a lot of confusion. The official name of it is JST RCY and it doesn't see a lot of use outside the toy grade space because it just doesn't have the current delivery needed for most applications. My old KingKong ET125 2S had one, and it somehow performed well despite the connector, but I'm sure a switch to XT30 would have helped. JST SH (1mm pitch) is ubiquitous on smaller quad builds, including for Vtx and ESC. JST GH is ubiquitous on Pixhawks for most connection types, and is the standard for CAN connectors. Generally, GH is nicer to work with because it's locking, but it's tall enough to cause clearance problems on small quads.
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Apr 25, 2024 02:52
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Thank gently caress, smart people have shown up.CloFan posted:This would add a lot of weight, the TH doesn't have much payload capacity. Keep the JSTs, they are much lighter than XT30 Oops. I was ambiguous. I meant between the charger's xt60 port and the battery's JST PH, not making any additions to the drone. Now I have a question: I found this:https://www.amazon.ca/Tongina-Balance-Charger-Discharger-Connector/dp/B08TW6J527. So I read this: https://oscarliang.com/parallel-charging-multiple-lipo/. And I noticed that the article was written in December 14, and Oscar Liang is still alive. It's a parallel charge board. It has the correct connectors on both ends, and nobody's making you use it for parallel charging. But if you could. And you probably would, eventually. Would you recommend it to someone?
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Apr 25, 2024 04:04
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CloFan posted:That is correct, they are LiHV. I think Dom is saying make sure to change that setting when charging your 2S or other "normal" lipos Oh whoops, yes. Reading comprehension poor, brain bad.
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Apr 25, 2024 04:10
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DreadLlama posted:Thank gently caress, smart people have shown up. Oscar Liang has been a well known and active contributor to the FPV community for a long time, so his advice will be trustworthy. A lot of these cheap charging accessories come with the word "balance" printed on it or stated in the product listing even though it's meant specifically for parallel charging. I wouldn't worry about that. The kind you linked are what I use when I want to charge 1S batteries on my hobby charger. My setup is a dual channel charger (HTRC C240) with two 2-6S parallel boards (one for each channel) and a couple of those 1S parallel boards you linked plugged into the last XT60 port of each parallel board. When bridging two batteries together, the general wisdom is that you should never exceed a voltage differential of 0.02V between them, otherwise you risk drawing excessive amounts of current from the higher voltage battery into the lower one until they equalize. With micro 1S batteries, you have a bit more wiggle room. While larger packs can have internal resistances of ~5-10 mOhms when new, my 300mAh packs have always tended to be around 75-110 mOhms and my 450mAh packs 30-80 mOhms. This means you can get away with slightly larger voltage differentials. I've personally never had a problem bridging, for example, a 1S battery at 3.70V and another at 3.75V, but I probably wouldn't go beyond that. Zorilla fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Apr 25, 2024 |
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Apr 25, 2024 05:54
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DreadLlama posted:Thank gently caress, smart people have shown up. Ah, maybe we're all bad at reading comprehension this week! That's exactly what I built, basically a 1S parallel charge board. in fact I thought I used an Oscar Liang guide but can't seem to find it, maybe it was just a post on his forums somewhere. Parallel charging is safe if you are smart about it. If you battery Ohms aren't close to matching, I wouldn't try it. But one of the bigger fpv people, Joshua Bardwell, sells his own line of parallel boards that are at least a little more quality than the no-name ones.. although his are pretty expensive by comparison. I had stopped parallel charging altogether to save my battery health and so that I wouldn't have to watch or monitor as closely while charging, opted for using two chargers and having enough batteries to last however long I wanted to fly. I wanted to get one of those dual-output chargers but never got around it to. Unfortunately, it has been about 3 years since I've flown and hmm... That just happens to match up to my kid's age..
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Apr 25, 2024 13:21
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