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ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



The Mavic 2 fits in your price range.
Its listed at 31mins duration, but that will be shorter in colder weather and the listed is probably also under best conditions.
14F is listed as minimum temperature.
https://www.dji.com/ca/mavic-2/info#specs

You'd probably want the zoom version for your usage.

For lowlight/FLIR cameras, you need to jump up a level of drone to deal with interchangable payload and you're quickly in the $10k region for a turnkey system.

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DreadLlama
Jul 15, 2005
Not just for breakfast anymore

+1 for the mavic 2. Specifically have you looked into the dual enterprise? If your prices are in US dollars I think it still fits in your price range. The dual model has FLIR so you can pick out warm things easier. Also it has self heating batteries. https://www.dji.com/ca/mavic-2-enterprise

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass





DreadLlama posted:

Don't they have a buttload of obstacle avoidance sensors too?

They do but the sensors all geared around keeping the drone out of the way of stationary objects like trees, buildings and the ground. Iím sure once they are trying to track and avoid another aircraft itís all out the window because thatís not at all what theyíre meant for.

Hell, the obstacle avoidance sensors straight up turn off in sport mode because the drone is moving too fast for them to work, so there is a limited use case for where they are successful and ďtracking a moving helicopterĒ is outside of that use case. They work well on stationary objects in normal mode speeds but thatís it

Jim Silly-Balls fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Jan 30, 2021

Warbird
May 23, 2012

Burn the 'dawgs
Kill the Yellowjackets
Purge the Tiger
It is better to die for Bama than to live for yourself


Fun Shoe

Jim Silly-Balls posted:

Mavic air 2ís have Ads-b receivers in them, yeah

Any flight trackers out there that list viewable ones in flight? Iíd assume ADSBE would.

DreadLlama
Jul 15, 2005
Not just for breakfast anymore

Well maybe I'm a lovely person but I feel worse for the drone pilot than the helicopter pilot. You can be all fast and stealthy and tacticool if you want, but you're going to hit stuff that didn't see you. If you're a manned pilot and reading this, ADS-B is your friend. I have a receiver. It's up to you to have a transmitter.

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass





Warbird posted:

Any flight trackers out there that list viewable ones in flight? Iíd assume ADSBE would.

Mavic air 2s have receivers only, they can see other aircraft. Other aircraft cannot see them

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

That's for the recommendations. I think the FLIR Mavic is $3350 so it might be a bit out of his original price range but that would be very useful for what we want to do. I showed him the basic zoom model and both enterprise models and he's pondering it.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012


"Why does that Subaru break down every time you look at it, Travis", Punchy said. I nearly fell out of the jump seat in my Brat, aghast. "That thing a princess?" I coughed and gulped. "Hahahaha, nice one, Punchy", I said

DreadLlama posted:

Well maybe I'm a lovely person but I feel worse for the drone pilot than the helicopter pilot. You can be all fast and stealthy and tacticool if you want, but you're going to hit stuff that didn't see you. If you're a manned pilot and reading this, ADS-B is your friend. I have a receiver. It's up to you to have a transmitter.

Well there's a hell of a take. "I feel worse for the guy who lost his $500 toy helicopter than the guy who had his windshield shattered and his passenger's face sprayed with glass."

In the manned world, ADS-B very explicitly does not guarantee separation and does not exempt the pilots of either aircraft from the responsibility to see and avoid other traffic. It's an additional safety feature, like having a moving map on your iPad, but not a primary flight instrument. That said, you have a receiver, I have a transmitter and receiver. I kinda wish you had a transmitter too so I could get some early warning because you are the size of a bird and mostly stationary and you don't even flap and it's hard to spot you. But because I know that electronics fail, I will still be looking around in my flight path to try to avoid you. Are you looking around for me, or are you focused on the ground and assuming your electronics will alert you when I approach?

I have no problems with drones doing whatever they want below 400 feet well away from airports (helicopter pilots might) but if you want to fly in the national airspace, you follow the national airspace rules. Until someone comes up with a way to have drones fly IFR, that means you're VFR and you need to see and avoid. The FAA correctly recognizes that you can't do this adequately when you're not on board the aircraft, and you can't do it at all when you're out of line of sight, which is why the restrictions exist.

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Jan 30, 2021

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



DreadLlama posted:

Well maybe I'm a lovely person but I feel worse for the drone pilot than the helicopter pilot. You can be all fast and stealthy and tacticool if you want, but you're going to hit stuff that didn't see you. If you're a manned pilot and reading this, ADS-B is your friend. I have a receiver. It's up to you to have a transmitter.

So, if you'd done any of your licences yet, you would know that the manned aircraft has the right of way. It's your job as a RPAS operator not to conflict with manned traffic, ADS-B or not.
Had that drone hit 2 feet to the right, the debris would have hit the pilot, which could easily have cost the life of all on board and you feel sorry for the drone pilot?. Yeah, you are a lovely person.

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006



Soiled Meat

Could there be a short range transmitter on manned aircraft that puts out a signal to be received by gps equipped uavs that commands it to lower/raise its altitude, similar to obstacle avoidance? The antenna on the manned aircraft being directional, fixed wing could have a "go up" and a "go down", helicopters would be more complicated though. Might be lighter and less complex than having the uav carry and power transponder.

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass





No because the go up command could put the drone into controlled airspace, and the go down command could put it into a building or something, causing different problems.

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006



Soiled Meat

Why is a plane flying that close to a building then?

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



Corky Romanovsky posted:

Why is a plane flying that close to a building then?

For planes, there's a limited amount of reasons, but for helicopters, there could be a lot.

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass





Iím just saying. Issuing a command to take over flight of a drone (even if itís autonomous flight) without the operators consent is just as dangerous, but in different ways.

You canít always be guaranteed that ďdescend right nowĒ wonít make more problems

DreadLlama
Jul 15, 2005
Not just for breakfast anymore

It would be easier to put such automatic ducking system system onto the drone. "If ADS-B signal = on, and altitude >50m, and downward looking sensors = no ground; then descend" You could literally do it with code.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



DreadLlama posted:

It would be easier to put such automatic ducking system system onto the drone. "If ADS-B signal = on, and altitude >50m, and downward looking sensors = no ground; then descend" You could literally do it with code.

Ok, go do it.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012


"Why does that Subaru break down every time you look at it, Travis", Punchy said. I nearly fell out of the jump seat in my Brat, aghast. "That thing a princess?" I coughed and gulped. "Hahahaha, nice one, Punchy", I said

DreadLlama posted:

It would be easier to put such automatic driving system system onto the car. "If traffic signal = green, and speed < 60, and forward looking sensors = no cars; then accelerate" You could literally do it with code.

Jim Silly-Balls
Jun 6, 2001

Fondle my shiny metal ass





DreadLlama posted:

It would be easier to put such automatic ducking system system onto the drone. "If ADS-B signal = on, and altitude >50m, and downward looking sensors = no ground; then descend" You could literally do it with code.

You should know better than to assume that the sensors are foolproof. They are good, but they for sure arenít good enough to go full autonomous at the drop of a hat.

I think if DJI had a sensor suite that was 100% foolproof, theyíd be marketing the hell out of that fact

Geburan
Nov 4, 2010


A couple years back I tried to get in to quads/planes and purchased some stuff. Taranis X9D, some quad parts that are probably way out of date now, stuff for a FT Tiny Trainer, etc. Then kids took up my time. I actually managed to fly the Tiny Trainer once or twice, but I'd really like a functional FPV setup. Are the EMAX RTF kits still a good way in to the hobby? I live in suburbia, so I'm thinking the 5 inch frame I have is probably overkill for parks/playgrounds anyway. The old DIY box goggles I had never worked well. The controller would be redundant, but I could skip trying to remember how to program the Taranis. Etc. If I do go that route, I'm not clear on what the differences between the Tinyhawk models are. I have a KingKong Tiny6 for indoor, but that is probably old tech as well at this point. Recommendations?

aunt jenkins
Jan 12, 2001



Depends on how serious you are. A good Fatshark set can be had for around $200 and is way way better than the emax goggle, and your X9D is still great, so if youíre planning to stick with the hobby I would be tempted to buy separate better quality stuff. But the emax rtf stuff is a fine set to start with. My kids use the emax goggle all the time.

The Tinyhawk 2 is strictly better than the OG and is a great indoor / outdoor learner. Itís pretty durable and safe inside, and can hold its own outside. I also had a lot of fun with a Tinyhawk Freestyle, itís outdoor only but a lot less intimidating than a 5Ē and uses two of the same 1S batteries the TH uses so itís a nice companion that flies fairly similarly to a 5Ē.

Geburan
Nov 4, 2010


After looking at reviews, I may just get the EV800D goggles to get me operational again and see if I can revive the Kong. If not Iíll get the TH2 for indoor, if so Iíll get the Freestyle for outdoor. As much as I would like a lighter FatShark, $200 is more than Iím ready to spend on goggles before getting in the air again.

Nerdrock
Jan 31, 2006



Geburan posted:

After looking at reviews, I may just get the EV800D goggles to get me operational again and see if I can revive the Kong. If not Iíll get the TH2 for indoor, if so Iíll get the Freestyle for outdoor. As much as I would like a lighter FatShark, $200 is more than Iím ready to spend on goggles before getting in the air again.

I've heard a lot of praise for the EV800D for budget gogs. and those tinyhawks are amazing machines for exactly what you're buying them for.

Side notes : I think 2S on the TH2 is a parlor trick and kind of dumb. it's most at home at 1S. Also : The Freestyle is amazing, and even more so if you convert it to XT30 and buy actual 450/525 2s batteries. The Freestyle will haul an insta360 go , with only a modest performance penalty, which makes what you can do with it very surprising. (short of the crappy range FrSky gives you, but you can upgrade that later too!)

Nerdrock fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Feb 10, 2021

aunt jenkins
Jan 12, 2001



Nerdrock posted:

Side notes : I think 2S on the TH2 is a parlor trick and kind of dumb. it's most at home at 1S. Also : The Freestyle is amazing, and even more so if you convert it to XT30 and buy actual 450/525 2s batteries.

I 100% agree with all of this

Rontalvos
Feb 22, 2006


I own a TH2 and a TH2 freestyle and I'll third those recommendations

CapnBry
Jul 15, 2002

I got this goin'

Grimey Drawer

Nerdrock posted:

I've heard a lot of praise for the EV800D for budget gogs.
Don't forget to second this too! I agree 100% with everything Nerdrock said. I have a pair of EV800D and they have the best reception of any goggle I've used (SKY03o, SKY04X, Pro58 module). The only downside to them is for people like me with crap eyes the screen is all blurry so I had to add an extension. That makes them really want to slide down my face even with the battery moved to the back.

EDIT: I just looked up what Skyzone Cobra X box goggles cost and $220 what the heck are they smoking? I thought they were like $170 and even then I'd have a hard time recommending them despite them being the most advanced box goggles on the market.

CapnBry fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Feb 11, 2021

Rontalvos
Feb 22, 2006


CapnBry posted:

Don't forget to second this too! I agree 100% with everything Nerdrock said. I have a pair of EV800D and they have the best reception of any goggle I've used (SKY03o, SKY04X, Pro58 module). The only downside to them is for people like me with crap eyes the screen is all blurry so I had to add an extension. That makes them really want to slide down my face even with the battery moved to the back.

EDIT: I just looked up what Skyzone Cobra X box goggles cost and $220 what the heck are they smoking? I thought they were like $170 and even then I'd have a hard time recommending them despite them being the most advanced box goggles on the market.

EV800Ds were my first goggles and I was not planning on upgrading them after I tried a fat shark compact goggle style and hated them. Then I got my $600 stimmy and decided to jump on the just-released skyzone cobra X and I'm happy to answer questions about them.

I agree that they're pricey but in my personal opinion they are better for me than the EV800D in every way except for the absolute size of the screen. 5" vs 4" is a decent difference, but the resolution is higher and your eyes are much closer to the screen which helps mitigate the difference a bit. They are much lighter, more comfortable, more compact, clearer lenses and higher resolution screen, much better menus and lots of customization for both display and DVR, and most importantly for me you can comfortably wear glasses while using them. The DVR also combines the feed from both antennas like rapidfire does and I feel like the footage is noticeably cleaner.


The EV800Ds new are $99 on getfpv and $129 on Amazon and compared to that the skyzones are in my opinion worth it as an upgrade. When you look at the rcgroups.com classifieds and see good condition EV800D's selling for $50-80 bucks then it's less of a worthwhile upgrade. Fatshark scouts are another well regarded box goggle and used they sell for $150 in hours on rcgroups whenever one is posted. When you compare any of these to newer fatshark goggles which are $400+ they seem like a bargain.

I did a micro review on the skyzone cobra X's in this thread on RCGroups if anybody is interested in reading an unprofessional comparison of the cobra X's and EV800D and seeing DVR footage.

CapnBry
Jul 15, 2002

I got this goin'

Grimey Drawer

Oh yeah I totally agree that the Cobra X are a fantastic set of goggles. The ability to wear glasses with them (and not just because they sort of fit, they designed for it), and the scrollwheels UI is just amazing. It is funny that that's such a selling point, but gosh even the top of the line Fatshark goggles have just the least useful set of buttons on them and they seem to think they nailed it with that design. SKY04X are my daily use goggles and the scrollwheels I never have to pause and think before I press a button to remember which button does what. It is just amazing in terms of usability.

I suppose my complaints about the face-heavy box goggle design is moot if the Cobra X are lighter and closer to your face. I'm still on the fence though about SteadyView/RapidMix receivers. They're pretty good, and better than the SKY03o's builtins, but somehow my EV800Ds have better reception. It just seems like a big jump in price from EV800D to CobraX for a better set of goggles but not a premium experience. I've seen used SKY03o going for $275 and I think that's a much better goggle for not much more so it puts the CobraX in a weird price position. At $150 it is a no-brainer buy this. $175 still probably worth it. $210 I'm looking at other options.

Rontalvos
Feb 22, 2006


CapnBry posted:

I've seen used SKY03o going for $275 and I think that's a much better goggle for not much more so it puts the CobraX in a weird price position. At $150 it is a no-brainer buy this. $175 still probably worth it. $210 I'm looking at other options.

To me you're comparing apples to oranges a little bit here, but I totally see your perspective of why the value proposition just isn't there in the Cobra X's for you, but for me it was worth it.

I think I have hammerhead shark eyes or something, because the Fatsharks I've used didn't have enough adjustability for me to use them, and my vision problems are almost entirely astigmatism which means Fatshark diopter lenses (which I've tried) don't help at all. The sky03o is that same compact goggle design as a Fatshark, so for me they're a non-starter and when I stumbled across the CobraX's release I wasn't even looking at the sky03/04 as cross shopping alternatives with the cobraX since the compact goggle shape/design immediately disqualified them.

They're pricy for a box goggle, especially if you like the compact goggle ergonomics which opens up a huge amount of competitor models and a huge used gear market which let's your dollar go a lot farther. If you're sticking with box goggles exclusively, the CobraX and Scout are high up on the list but it's also a very short list.

One cool other thing about them is the module is removable and replaceable with standard goggle modules like rapidfire or whatever else, but new top covers for those modules are yet to come, some have suggested 3D printing may be your only option too.

Edit: Joshua Bardwell posted a review about 20 minutes ago. He seems to like them so far but I just started watching, and he says there'll be a range test in the video later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72UtCqu2wvg

Rontalvos fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Feb 12, 2021

CapnBry
Jul 15, 2002

I got this goin'

Grimey Drawer

Rontalvos posted:

To me you're comparing apples to oranges a little bit here, but I totally see your perspective of why the value proposition just isn't there in the Cobra X's for you, but for me it was worth it.
Yeah that's true. I may be complaining about the price but honestly, if I still only had my EV800D I'd consider getting a Cobra X since everything about it is an upgrade. It's just a bit tough to recommend to someone who wants to try FPV due to the relatively high price point. Definitely a strong mid-tier option though and it's a good deal for that.

TheReverend
Jun 21, 2005



I think I want what they call a cinewhoop ?.

Any suggestion for babby's first cinewhoop?!

TheReverend
Jun 21, 2005



TheReverend posted:

I think I want what they call a cinewhoop ?.

Any suggestion for babby's first cinewhoop?!

Follow-up, I have zero experience with this so I'll need everything.

Nerdrock
Jan 31, 2006



TheReverend posted:

Follow-up, I have zero experience with this so I'll need everything.

depends on a handful of things.

if you have nothing at all, you might consider dipping your toes with a RTF kit. I started with a Tinyhawk 2 RTF kit https://www.getfpv.com/emax-tinyhawk-ii-micro-brushless-fpv-drone-rtf-bundle.html, but nowadays a better one would be the BetaFPV Advanced Kit 2 https://www.getfpv.com/betafpv-fpv-whoop-racing-advanced-kit-v2-frsky-d8.html. .. bonus points the 2nd option's radio plugs in to PC and can be used with simulators for extra practice like Liftoff , DRL simulator, or Velocidrone.

Get some flying in, and then you can use the goggles and radio with a cinewhoop. You'd then have to buy a cinewhoop, appropriate batteries for it, and a charger.


or you can skip the kit and just buy everything piecemeal , which would be more expensive and you'd wind up crashing and repairing your cinewhoop a bunch before you got any meaningful footage out of it.


so your choices are 1) drop 200 and learn to fly. then upgrade. , or 2) skip that step, drop a lot more cash, and either do great or have a higher chance of being very frustrated.

i own every Bionicle
Oct 22, 2005

cstm ttle? kthxbye


Cinewhoops are awesome but they are about as hard to fly as a regular FPV quad. You will definitely want to practice with a whoop of the non cine variety to sufficiently git gud before you jump in.

TheReverend
Jun 21, 2005



Gotcha, makes sense.

Thank you.

TheReverend
Jun 21, 2005



What's the best sim software ?

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006



Soiled Meat

People usually say:
FPV Air 2
Liftoff
Velocidrone

If you think you are serious about getting into it, get a transmitter and fly the sim with that. You may be able to find a used on locally. Radiomaster TX16s is probably still the current go-to, but if there is a good deal for a used one, consider a previous version or the Jumper T16. Both should be able to interface with your computer via USB, and it really does help to use a transmitter vs an xbox controller or whatever.

TheReverend
Jun 21, 2005



I'm thinking of getting that 200 dollar bundle mentioned above just mostly because of upgradeability and sim compatible

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006



Soiled Meat

If you want to spread out the cost and get some better equipment, you could start with the SIM software and Radiomaster transmitter, then get a quad and the Eachine EV800D. It will be about $100~150 more, but you will have a much better transmitter and goggles than the $200 bundle.

TheReverend
Jun 21, 2005



That's a really good point

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Bumble Dong
Jan 3, 2009


Corky Romanovsky posted:

If you want to spread out the cost and get some better equipment, you could start with the SIM software and Radiomaster transmitter, then get a quad and the Eachine EV800D. It will be about $100~150 more, but you will have a much better transmitter and goggles than the $200 bundle.

Seconded this. Everyone I know with a RTF kit has replaced their radio (they break easy) and complains about their goggles. The EV800d is universally praised and holds its value well on the second hand market along with the radiomaster. Youíre better off buying decent components to start off with and if you decide itís not for you, re-sell.

That being said, Iíd get a BNF whoop as your first drone. They take a beating way better than a 5Ē would and you can fly it indoors during bad weather. Tinyhawk, Meteor65, mobula 6, etc.

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