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al-azad
May 28, 2009



Terpfen posted:

Remember, Final Fantasy only caught on when Sony ran nonstop commercials of Final Fantasy VII’s CG cutscenes. A lot of people tricked themselves into thinking it was some sort of supergame with the best graphics ever. Imagine their surprise when a text window and menu commands popped up. Imagine their greater surprise when they liked it. This is why Cloud is some vidya gaming superstar despite being a mediocre character: FF7 is everyone’s JRPG gateway game. (Ours was Dragon Warrior on the NES, most likely. Mine was.)

Basically, Dragon Quest needs a marketing campaign that allows people to draw incorrect but whoa-that’s-awesome type conclusions, and it needs to come up with a totally new realistic non-Toriyama-inspired graphical style.

Until then, it’s just not going to be a hit with the dudebro Call of Gears of Halo NFL 11 crowd, because they look at it and think “lame Japanese cartoony poo poo with big eyes and voice actors that make noises."

I was definitely one of those guys who thought it was a supergame (Not coming to a theater near you). Ironically, I thought it was fun for the opposite reasons everyone thought it was cool. The game was plain weird, absurd, and almost felt like a mockery of itself and the genre. I stopped caring about the series when Square took everything super seriously when at heart FF7 was about a dude in a purple jumpsuit chasing after a test tube baby with mommy issues.

I agree DQ needs a graphical face lift but not something realistic like that awful Dragon Warrior cartoon. DQVIII is such a beautifully animated game and blew all other PS2 games out of the water IMO. It could certainly use another major console release with some of the kick rear end cel-shaded graphics that's flying around now.

Dear Squenix: When Level-5 is finished with the PS3 version of Ninokuni, hire them. It will be the smartest thing you guys have done in the past 3 years.

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MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010



Terpfen posted:

Until then, it’s just not going to be a hit with the dudebro Call of Gears of Halo NFL 11 crowd, because they look at it and think “lame Japanese cartoony poo poo with big eyes and voice actors that make noises."

Well that shouldn't be their target audience anyways. Its not like realistic graphics made "dudebros" rush out to buy FF13. The Toriyama art style seems pretty ingrained within the series and is probably a big contributer to its success overall. At least in the states we can go "its that game that looks like DBZ".

LooseChanj
Feb 17, 2006

Logicaaaaaaaaal!


Just started a playthrough of DW1, and remembered that needing to use a "Stairs" command is the most retarded thing ever. Seriously, what were they smoking?

spacebard
Jan 1, 2007

Football~


Genpei Turtle posted:

In the original Japanese version, that place (and the subtitle) was "Maboroshi no Daichi" which roughly translates as "the land of illusion."

I finally got to actually sit down and play. Interesting. They chose to translate the subtitle and the term differently, the phantom realm, instead of re-using the subtitle. Now I can't wait to see if Realms of Revelation actually appears anywhere in the official English script.

al-azad
May 28, 2009



Did anyone play the Fu-Ma sample game in RPG Maker 2? It was a neat DQ clone and graphically what I expect from a next-gen handheld version of the game.

Genpei Turtle
Jul 20, 2007



al-azad posted:

I agree DQ needs a graphical face lift but not something realistic like that awful Dragon Warrior cartoon. DQVIII is such a beautifully animated game and blew all other PS2 games out of the water IMO. It could certainly use another major console release with some of the kick rear end cel-shaded graphics that's flying around now.

Are you referring to the cartoon that was essentially Dragon Quest III: The Cartoon, and that never got translated past the first 13 episodes stateside? Because if so, that series literally had the same character designer as all the DQ games--they already look pretty much identical.

As an aside, though it got canceled real quick in the US, a guy in my dorm during college had the full Japanese version on grainy VHS cassettes from Singapore, and it has one of the greatest troll endings in the history of TV. Apparently they lost their sponsor mid-season or something so in the last 5 minutes of just an ordinary episode they basically cut to someone saying "And then the bad guy killed all of the hero's party members, but the hero came back and killed the bad guy. The end." And that was literally the end of the show until like a year later when they scraped together the cash to do a proper ending, by which time nobody cared. It just screamed "pissed off animation studio not giving a poo poo because they all just lost their jobs" and is hilarious in that context.

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

So I give this all about equal odds of either going super well or, uh, gettin' us all killed. Messily.

So a couple of prayers from you guys wouldn't hurt, yeah?


LooseChanj posted:

Just started a playthrough of DW1, and remembered that needing to use a "Stairs" command is the most retarded thing ever. Seriously, what were they smoking?

Oh, in the original Dragon Warrior, it was worse still. You have to give menu commands to change your movement facing because there were no "facing" sprites - it worked like Ultima IV did.

Seriously, DW1 is a product of a) its time and b) inexperienced developers. It is a hard game to play these days. Hell, Ultima IV, the game that inspired Dragon Quest, is basically an unplayable mess these days, despite being one of the cornerstones of the entire genre, if not the industry.

SpaceDrake fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2011 around 23:24

al-azad
May 28, 2009



Genpei Turtle posted:

Are you referring to the cartoon that was essentially Dragon Quest III: The Cartoon, and that never got translated past the first 13 episodes stateside? Because if so, that series literally had the same character designer as all the DQ games--they already look pretty much identical.

As an aside, though it got canceled real quick in the US, a guy in my dorm during college had the full Japanese version on grainy VHS cassettes from Singapore, and it has one of the greatest troll endings in the history of TV. Apparently they lost their sponsor mid-season or something so in the last 5 minutes of just an ordinary episode they basically cut to someone saying "And then the bad guy killed all of the hero's party members, but the hero came back and killed the bad guy. The end." And that was literally the end of the show until like a year later when they scraped together the cash to do a proper ending, by which time nobody cared. It just screamed "pissed off animation studio not giving a poo poo because they all just lost their jobs" and is hilarious in that context.

I'm not the biggest fan of his art but I will always associate Toriyama's work as Dragon Ball "cartoony" or Dragon Ball Z "realistic." DQ will always be the former to me; an iconic color palette, oddball monsters, and provocative backdrops. Chalk it up to bad animation but the cartoon was a brown and gray mess.

SpaceDrake posted:

Seriously, DW1 is a product of a) its time and b) inexperienced developers. It is a hard game to play these days. Hell, Ultima IV, the game that inspired Dragon Quest, is basically an unplayable mess these days, despite being one of the cornerstones of the entire genre, if not the industry.

A remake of sorts was released on the Sega Master System that's the definitive version of the game IMO. It combines all the aspects of the original with streamlined controls and a better interface. It's a shame it only saw limited release in Europe.

al-azad fucked around with this message at Feb 17, 2011 around 23:37

LooseChanj
Feb 17, 2006

Logicaaaaaaaaal!


SpaceDrake posted:

Oh, in the original Dragon Warrior

That's the one I'm playing, unless there was something released before the first american NES version, and you don't have to command direction changes?

Terpfen
Jul 27, 2006
Objection!



"al-azad” posted:

Dear Squenix: When Level-5 is finished with the PS3 version of Ninokuni, hire them. It will be the smartest thing you guys have done in the past 3 years.

Level-5 is the official series developer now. They made 8, they made 9, and they’re making 10.

Volitaire posted:

Well that shouldn't be their target audience anyways.

I agree, but we’re talking about a hypothetical anyway.

quote:

Its not like realistic graphics made "dudebros" rush out to buy FF13.

There was enough graphical shiny, enough residual Cloud affection (via Lightning), and enough “they’ve spent years on this, there’s no way it won’t be GREAT” sentiment floating around to ensure FF13’s retail success. Edit: And I’d like to add, Square-Enix advertised Final Fantasy XIII on ESPN, even going so far as to sponsor the 2010 NBA All-Star Game.

quote:

At least in the states we can go "its that game that looks like DBZ".

Hasn’t worked yet.

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

So I give this all about equal odds of either going super well or, uh, gettin' us all killed. Messily.

So a couple of prayers from you guys wouldn't hurt, yeah?


LooseChanj posted:

That's the one I'm playing, unless there was something released before the first american NES version, and you don't have to command direction changes?

I should have said in the original Japanese Dragon Quest In some versions of the game (not the NES version), you had to enter which direction you wanted to go via a menu. It's worth remembering DQ1 wasn't exclusively an NES exclusive by a long shot.

(I could be misremembering, but the point is the original version of Dragon Warrior was even more primitive than what we ended up getting.)

LooseChanj
Feb 17, 2006

Logicaaaaaaaaal!


SpaceDrake posted:

In some versions of the game (not the NES version)

I now want to experience this so badly it hurts.

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

So I give this all about equal odds of either going super well or, uh, gettin' us all killed. Messily.

So a couple of prayers from you guys wouldn't hurt, yeah?


Here we go, here's a video of what I'm talking about. You had to direct which direction you wanted actions like talk to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ocr_Qj8EFa8

Videos of the ORIGINAL-original Dragon Quest are surprisingly hard to find, too. Most of the stuff on Youtube seems to be DQ3 or later (which is telling, really).

SpaceDrake fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2011 around 00:06

RVWinkle
Aug 24, 2004

In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement within this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative.

Nap Ghost

Keep in mind that Dragon Quest was the first console RPG ever. Hydlide is significant but doesn't really count.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007



Yeah, I'm not sure the fact that PC RPGs were more advanced at the time was really a factor, considering PCs were far far less common at the time than they are today especially in lower-income households, and the target market for Dragon Warrior was the 8-14 set. The real reason it probably didn't do well is because the Toriyama art and such were simply not the huge selling points here (at the time anyway) that they were in japan, and that RPGs have never really been a big genre here. You can even see some of this in the modern era where jRPGs are basically a dying genre, and even computer RPGs like Fallout and Dragon Age have been slowly moving towards interactive combat.

LooseChanj
Feb 17, 2006

Logicaaaaaaaaal!


SpaceDrake posted:

Here we go, here's a video of what I'm talking about. You had to direct which direction you wanted actions like talk to go.

Pfpt, that's not that much more primitive than the version I played on my NES. The graphics are identical, except for that weird missing orientation sprites thing. If those and the resulting need to specify which direction you were talking in are the only differences (other than language obviously) then "Stairs" is still the king of retarded commands.

Edit: Looking at another video of the original Japanese version, it looks identical to the US NES version, aside from the direction thing.

LooseChanj fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2011 around 00:51

Genpei Turtle
Jul 20, 2007



al-azad posted:

I'm not the biggest fan of his art but I will always associate Toriyama's work as Dragon Ball "cartoony" or Dragon Ball Z "realistic." DQ will always be the former to me; an iconic color palette, oddball monsters, and provocative backdrops. Chalk it up to bad animation but the cartoon was a brown and gray mess.

Oh, OK. Honestly I can't really tell the difference--I can't say I know too much about Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z to make the comparison but TBH all of his art looks pretty much the same to me, especially people. E.g. I've seen a Dragon Ball Z character that looks identical to the DQVI hero except he has black rather than blue hair, and another character that looks like the son in DQV except in a karate uniform. He seems to have a limited range in that department.

Kuros
Sep 13, 2010

You may have to metaphorically make a deal with Mort. And by "Mort", I mean Robot Mort. And by "metaphorically", I mean get your coat.

Long time Dragon Quest fan here. I've played through and beaten 1, 3, 4, 5, and 8. I never had the patience to play through 7 even though I have it. For some reason, I haven't taken the time with 2, but I plan to play 6 on the DS and I'll get to 9 eventually.

Out of the games I've beaten, I personally like 8 the best because I believe it has the best pacing and the grinding is rarely bad unless you are metal hunting. Plus, the English version had an excellent musical score. I'm playing through the game again, currently on my way to Trodain, however since DQ6 just came out on the DS, that will be postponed for a while as I play through that game.

LooseChanj
Feb 17, 2006

Logicaaaaaaaaal!


Kuros posted:

I personally like 8 the best because I believe it has the best pacing and the grinding is rarely bad unless you are metal hunting.

It was so much better than 7 when it comes to stuff you can figure out without needing to look at a drat walkthrough every 2 minutes. But you know you haven't finished it until you beat the bonus boss right? And jesus christ is that one bitch of a battle, I think it took me over an HOUR. And that's on top of the hundred or so hours of grinding it took to get to the level where I could.

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

So I give this all about equal odds of either going super well or, uh, gettin' us all killed. Messily.

So a couple of prayers from you guys wouldn't hurt, yeah?


LooseChanj posted:

It was so much better than 7 when it comes to stuff you can figure out without needing to look at a drat walkthrough every 2 minutes. But you know you haven't finished it until you beat the bonus boss right? And jesus christ is that one bitch of a battle, I think it took me over an HOUR. And that's on top of the hundred or so hours of grinding it took to get to the level where I could.

You can't actually marry the princess without doing that, right?

LooseChanj
Feb 17, 2006

Logicaaaaaaaaal!


SpaceDrake posted:

You can't actually marry the princess without doing that, right?

Huh? You run off with her regardless. I'm talking about beating the Ultimate dragon. It's actually called that, in case you gave up before getting it. And it takes A LOT of grinding to level up enough.

Vasler
Feb 17, 2004
Greetings Earthling! Do you have any Zoom Boots?

I love the Dragon Quest (and Dragon Warrior) series and have been playing the games since the Nintendo Power Dragon Warrior freebie.

I was never able to beat any of the Dragon Warrior games for the NES aside from the first game, but I really enjoyed 7, 8, and 9. I don't know what it is about DQ games, but I love grinding slimes and stuff; it doesn't really feel like grinding because the battles are over so quickly, which is very different from a Final Fantasy game (which I also like, but not as much).

I think the final fight in DW7 took me 40 minutes or so, but man it felt like an accomplishment when I beat the boss. I don't think any other game has had that feeling of satisfaction. That game must have taken at least 120 hours of play.

DQ8 was good, and made the transition to voice acting pretty well, in my opinion, but the loading times were atrocious. I think I enjoyed DQ9 more than 8, but it was a drat shame they didn't make the game with constant party members like 5 or 8. The lack of party chat was a huge downer but the game was still awesome.

The DS DQ games have all been awesome so far, however DQ6 had some big shoes to fill. I think DQ5 was probably the best DQ game yet - The translation was top notch, the story was interesting, the characters were great, and party chat was awesome.

Also, the best part of DQ is that they spell "armour" properly. Man, I hate it when I'm playing a game set in "England" or wherever and they spell armour incorrectly.

Vasler fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2011 around 01:24

Myrmeleo
Jan 27, 2010

If only I had Earth Power...


My first game into this series was Dragon Quest VIII, and I think that part of the allure of the game was that they decided to use the Symphonic Suite instead of the Synthesized version for the music. It really captivated me to go on and find the game to be really fun.

So far I just got Dragon Quest VI and the Party Chat makes me giggle sometimes with Carver's lines.

Also, if anything, a 3DS port of DQ7 would be excellent since the sprite-based games do have monsters charging at you!

Relax Or DIE
May 8, 2006

You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean.

Personally, I never really got into te DQ series, I've played a handful of the games, starting with the first on the NES, but I only ever finished one of them. Fortunately, it was the best game in the franchise.

Motherfuckin' Rocket Slime.

al-azad
May 28, 2009



Genpei Turtle posted:

Oh, OK. Honestly I can't really tell the difference--I can't say I know too much about Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z to make the comparison but TBH all of his art looks pretty much the same to me, especially people. E.g. I've seen a Dragon Ball Z character that looks identical to the DQVI hero except he has black rather than blue hair, and another character that looks like the son in DQV except in a karate uniform. He seems to have a limited range in that department.

Well, Dragon Ball was a fun adventure show where majority of the episodes took place in a different locale while Dragon Ball Z was people standing around talking in nondescript environments and screaming really loud for 20 episodes at a time. I didn't even know the cartoon existed until after DWVII but it lacked all the fun and adventure the games have. I've also come to associate DQ with a specific color palette and visual design that all the games have followed but the cartoon was a brown mess and the only iconic monsters I remember were the slimes.

SpaceDrake
Dec 22, 2006

So I give this all about equal odds of either going super well or, uh, gettin' us all killed. Messily.

So a couple of prayers from you guys wouldn't hurt, yeah?


Also JEEEEEESUUUUUUUUUUS, what the gently caress happened to the price of DQV? I didn't get a chance to pick it up when it was new and now it's like $75 on Amazon. And Gamestop doesn't even have any used copies in stock!

Does anyone have any idea where I could get a copy for a sane price?

Vasler
Feb 17, 2004
Greetings Earthling! Do you have any Zoom Boots?

Contest Winner posted:

Personally, I never really got into te DQ series, I've played a handful of the games, starting with the first on the NES, but I only ever finished one of them. Fortunately, it was the best game in the franchise.

Motherfuckin' Rocket Slime.

Man, I forgot about Rocket Slime. That game kicked rear end! It was such a romp. The music was awesome and everything was slime related. Boingburg, His Royal Wobbliness, the tomb of Tootenschliemen. I can't believe the game didn't do better than it did. I mean, you had a tank and could launch yourself (and baddies) out of a cannon!

Mister Roboto
Jun 15, 2009

I SWING BY AUNT MAY's
FOR A SHOWER AND A
BITE, MOST NATURAL
THING IN THE WORLD,
ASSUMING SHE'S
NOT HOME...

...AND I
FIND HER IN BED
WITH MY
FATHER, AND THE
TWO OF THEM
ARE...ARE...

...AAAAAAAAUUUUGH!

Time for some Dragon Quest memorabilia from the Square store in Tokyo:















Mister Roboto fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2011 around 01:40

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007



SpaceDrake posted:

Also JEEEEEESUUUUUUUUUUS, what the gently caress happened to the price of DQV?
Small-scale release after DQIV DS did poorly? VV

Manos del Sino
Apr 12, 2004

Original Pony


Soiled Meat

SpaceDrake posted:

Also JEEEEEESUUUUUUUUUUS, what the gently caress happened to the price of DQV?

Does anyone have any idea where I could get a copy for a sane price?

Used on eBay?


DQVI talk:
The mini game is seriously curling? Curling? Ugh. Is there any point to it? I just cleared all the courses and didn't get anything fancy for doing so.


Also, I've reached Somnia Mk.II and I have no idea where to go from here. Some city in the south complained about their magic water tunnel caving in, and the King & Queen of Somnia are in a persistent sleep, but I can't find any actual quests. I haven't tried sleeping at the inn yet, though. I should probably do that.

Terpfen
Jul 27, 2006
Objection!



"Mister Roboto” posted:


Overpriced as hell and I DON’T CARE. Do want.

Kuros
Sep 13, 2010

You may have to metaphorically make a deal with Mort. And by "Mort", I mean Robot Mort. And by "metaphorically", I mean get your coat.

LooseChanj posted:

It was so much better than 7 when it comes to stuff you can figure out without needing to look at a drat walkthrough every 2 minutes. But you know you haven't finished it until you beat the bonus boss right? And jesus christ is that one bitch of a battle, I think it took me over an HOUR. And that's on top of the hundred or so hours of grinding it took to get to the level where I could.

Yep, I've beaten all of the bonus bosses and gotten pretty much everything in the game. It's just so good that I'm playing it over.

At least my strategy for beating the bonus boss was Accelerate + Timbrel + Helm Splitter + Dragon Soul. A 50 or 100 tensioned Dragon Soul does thousands of damage and if you have two Timbrels, you can get to 50 in 1 turn.

Mister Roboto
Jun 15, 2009

I SWING BY AUNT MAY's
FOR A SHOWER AND A
BITE, MOST NATURAL
THING IN THE WORLD,
ASSUMING SHE'S
NOT HOME...

...AND I
FIND HER IN BED
WITH MY
FATHER, AND THE
TWO OF THEM
ARE...ARE...

...AAAAAAAAUUUUGH!

Terpfen posted:

Overpriced as hell and I DON’T CARE. Do want.

Next time I'm around Tokyo center I'll buy ya one, if you want.

LooseChanj
Feb 17, 2006

Logicaaaaaaaaal!


Kuros posted:

Yep, I've beaten all of the bonus bosses

Ok, I really wanna clarify this. Did you do the one where you fight every single form the dragovian dude takes, one after another with no rest inbetween, until you get the Ultimate dragon?

MMF Freeway
Sep 15, 2010



I just finished the main quest in 8 and was wondering about the post game stuff. I'm around level 50 after doing some metal grinding, but I'm really sick of it. The guides I looked at mostly recommended being around 60-65 for the post game stuff, but you think it's doable at my level?

Kuros
Sep 13, 2010

You may have to metaphorically make a deal with Mort. And by "Mort", I mean Robot Mort. And by "metaphorically", I mean get your coat.

LooseChanj posted:

Ok, I really wanna clarify this. Did you do the one where you fight every single form the dragovian dude takes, one after another with no rest inbetween, until you get the Ultimate dragon?

Yep! It's not that hard if you hunker down and manage your MP well and keep some items on hand. Two Timbrels on Jessica and Angelo, MP restoring items and a Sage's Stone on Yangus help out a lot.

First Round:
Hero: Tension
Yangus: Helm Splitter
Jessica: Accelerate
Angelo: Timbrel

Second Round:
Hero: Dragon Soul (he's usually slower than Jessica and Angelo, so he will get hit by at least another Timbrel)
Yangus: Helm Splitter/Kabuff (if you have it)/Sage's Stone
Jessica: Accelerate/Insulate/Oomph/Timbrel
Angelo: Kabuff/Multiheal/Timbrel

This usually has him hurting. Twin Dragon Lash is also a great skill and does massive damage when tensioned.

Also keep in mind that you can bring in your Monster Teams once for each dragon. Each fight is counted as a separate fight.

DQ8 tactics.

Edit:

Volitaire posted:

I just finished the main quest in 8 and was wondering about the post game stuff. I'm around level 50 after doing some metal grinding, but I'm really sick of it. The guides I looked at mostly recommended being around 60-65 for the post game stuff, but you think it's doable at my level?

It's going to be extremely difficult if not nearly impossible. The bonus bosses and post game monsters hit extremely hard and that extra HP and MP come in handy. Plus there are a lot of extras in the end game that make it worth the grind. Even in the 70s the bonus bosses can be a challenge.

Kuros fucked around with this message at Feb 18, 2011 around 02:13

Terpfen
Jul 27, 2006
Objection!



Mister Roboto posted:

Next time I'm around Tokyo center I'll buy ya one, if you want.



drat. Now that’s just cheating.

And looking at that King Metal Slime reminds me of when Square-Enix was getting ready to release DQ8 in the US. They had some mail-in promotion for IIRC keychains… and I never got one.

Mister Roboto
Jun 15, 2009

I SWING BY AUNT MAY's
FOR A SHOWER AND A
BITE, MOST NATURAL
THING IN THE WORLD,
ASSUMING SHE'S
NOT HOME...

...AND I
FIND HER IN BED
WITH MY
FATHER, AND THE
TWO OF THEM
ARE...ARE...

...AAAAAAAAUUUUGH!

Terpfen posted:

drat. Now that’s just cheating.

And looking at that King Metal Slime reminds me of when Square-Enix was getting ready to release DQ8 in the US. They had some mail-in promotion for IIRC keychains… and I never got one.

Yeah, S-E does those promotions for new games every few years. I managed to snag a lot of the FF ones during the last promo.

Captain Vittles
Feb 12, 2008

I'm not a nerd! I'm a video game enthusiast.


Manos del Sino posted:

Also, I've reached Somnia Mk.II and I have no idea where to go from here. Some city in the south complained about their magic water tunnel caving in, and the King & Queen of Somnia are in a persistent sleep, but I can't find any actual quests. I haven't tried sleeping at the inn yet, though. I should probably do that.

Sleeping in Amor is a good idea.

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al-azad
May 28, 2009



I don't remember the dragon emperor/whatever from DQ8 being that difficult. You have to beat him to get the real ending (I didn't dare do the iron man boss challenge after that). The most important thing is boosting your speed as high as possible using mercury equipment to be able to act faster and attack more often.

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