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Ligur posted:I'm just wondering how all of that places any group into the role of "second-class" people. What is the actual harm in it? How is anyone worse off if they nod "yeah, I can tolerate gay people and wish for my children to live like the rest of you and make the same choises". And if that somehow disadvantages anyone, how? How would this be fundamentally different from, say, being forced to declare that you despise gays and want your children to live segregated? Sure, they're heinous values, but how else are you going to integrate into a society without accepting fundamentals such as these? After all, integrating into society trumps freedom of opinion every time. e: And nthing the question of why native Finns are somehow exempt from this. VVV: Yes, all the horrible, horrible hate such as being called a "dumbshit" for supporting dumb things. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 09:24
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Ligur posted:Secondly, do people still go for the "heh heh heh, yeah but where do we send our OWN people who don't fit or do wrong" Deporting people for their ideology and beliefs is a different matter than deporting people for criminal activities. It's not complicated: the loyalty oath would demand immigrants to adhere to "fundamental" values of Finnish society, but these are not values adhered to by all Finns. It's demanding them to follow a certain standard because all Finns follow it, despite the fact that not all Finns do. It's the dictionary definition of hypocrisy. e: VVV Your point is that foreigners need to adhere to certain standards of behaviour. You're correct, to an extent. The only thing we can ethically command people to follow is the law. And ideology and beliefs, if you're not familiar with the concepts, are not laws. Sure, accepting Finnish/western liberal values would help immigrants to integrate, but you can't really force them to do so, neither practically or ethically. You see, democracy contains the idea of a freedom of opinion and speech. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Oct 29, 2013 |
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Oct 29, 2013 11:06
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"argument"? Duh. (Basically the same argument people make against deporting foreign criminals: "heh heh, but where do we deport our own criminals heh heh got you".)
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Jerry Cotton posted:Hmm yes yes because Russia these days is a rational actor. This is just subscribing to the "big scary Russia" myth, and allowing yourself to be intimidated.
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Sep 7, 2014 15:09
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Jerry Cotton posted:Wow I'm intimidated by an actual IRL big scary country don't I feel the fool. It's the 'irrational part' - seeing Russia as this great big Other that is beyond the logic and ken of civilised Westerners. Of course the country run by ex-Soviet intelligence wants to be big and scary, you're just doing their job for them.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:17
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I have to wonder in which kind of vacuum gay marriage exists for these people. Like Soini being utterly broken (goddamn) at "biological rootlessness" being accepted for the first time. Maybe he means in Finland (and even then lol), but I definetely get the impression that SSM and only SSM is something that has no precedents or international stature. e: And the best are of course Hirvisaari and dösentti crying at the Great Satan in charge of the church BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 15:07
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Ligur posted:poo poo Those sentiments don't seem contradictory or self-serving at all.
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Jan 7, 2015 13:54
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SnowblindFatal posted:Yo, Jerry Cotton, I've considered you a cool GBS warrior (alongside with Hogge Wild) but you're pushing it with stuff like this. Octopuses or octopi?
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Jan 20, 2015 21:42
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Ligur posted:And, say, Finland was colonized by neighbouring superpowers like many African countries, even longer than some: somehow it doesn't force us to devastate our cities and shoot each other with Kalashnikovs. That's one of the most hilariously disingenuous things I've read, seeing as Finland was the other post-imperial interwar democracy to remain a democracy. But you're right, it's not just evil old Europe and US bullying Africa. China's there, too. Valiantman posted:I dare you to name those apparently plentiful organizations. If you can do that and cast a reasonable doubt on enough of them that it can be called a failure of the system, I'll concede. If you cannot do that I'm calling you out on creating a narrative out of thin air to veil your own mind from that you actually have a beef with foreign aid as a concept instead of how it's done. The Finnish government? BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 20:08
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Valiantman posted:What the heck is wrong with you and your ability to have a civilized discussion? You said I will scream like an ape instead of reading links I just asked for? And accuse me of all kinds of deranged behaviour? And called me a monkey?  Except in real life somehow
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Jan 23, 2015 20:18
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Ligur posted:Ok are there different races that are capable of oppressing others, that others that are not? Post-colonial Africa: 
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Jan 23, 2015 20:45
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Triple A posted:It's what you get when you let ideologues run the media. You get a slant and that's what the stories are going to be all about. The immensely ideological and partisan act of acknowledging that racism exists. Ligur posted:"Vermin scum" Unlike those heroic Americans. People call the main character a racist because he's real person who was racist.
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Jan 25, 2015 16:57
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Ligur posted:Are you stupid, or just have problems understand context? Americans engage in wars (wars I don't agree with) in a some parts of the world. Civilians die. All you're saying is that both of them (the Americans and "the savages") kill people, but one is nicer about it. "Sure it's shame about all the killing and the rape, but at least it wasn't in these specific ways! They used humane methods, like bombers instead of IEDs. And they weren't killing specific groups, they were killing everyone equally!" This really reminds me of Hippias Minor really. It's kind of hilarious of how you fail to recognise how loaded the term is. It's basically the simplest way to create the Other. Chris Kyle posted:“I am a strong Christian. Not a perfect one—not close. But I strongly believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible. When I die, God is going to hold me accountable for everything I’ve done on earth. He may hold me back until last and run everybody else through the line, because it will take so long to go over all my sins. “Mr. Kyle, let’s go into the backroom. . . .” Honestly, I don’t know what will really happen on Judgment Day. But what I lean toward is that you know all of your sins, and God knows them all, and shame comes over you at the reality that He knows. I believe the fact that I’ve accepted Jesus as my savior will be my salvation. But in that backroom or whatever it is when God confronts me with my sins, I do not believe any of the kills I had during the war will be among them. Everyone I shot was evil. I had good cause on every shot. They all deserved to die.”
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Jan 25, 2015 17:26
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Ligur posted:It might be loaded for you but not for normal people. The problems is basically yours in this case. Using the noun "savage" is just a rhetorical game "civilised" people use to feel better about themselves. Civilised people may do horrible things, but they're not savages. Civilised people may kill people, but they're not savages. Civilised people may rape, but they're not savages. Civilised people may invade people, but they're not savages. Like your definition: the US army may be full of killers and rapists, but atl least they're not slavers. In a historical context, "civilised" has stood for "white," and "savage" has stood for the opposite. You don't even need to look back to the colonial era to see it in this context: in modern use, it's been applied to African-Americans. You can look at Chris Kyle: he was a racist who bragged about supposedly killing looters in America. But he's not savage, because he isn't a rapist or a slaver. He hated "the savages," and it's how he justified killing people. They were evil. They were savages. One only needs to consider the ways to translate the noun "Savage" into finnish, provided by Google Translate: villi-ihminen, villi-peto, and raakalainen. I can take a guess at which ones the Finnish translations won't use. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 17:50
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Ligur posted:What the gently caress are you driveling about? "Savage" is a famously racist and colonialist term. For someone who blasts people for not understanding context, you seem wholly incapable of appreciating it. quote:What the gently caress are you driveling about? Calling a person who wants to kill others just because they belong to a different tribe and enslave their women a "savage" is loving fine. By your own definition, the "savage" is more or less a "tribal" creature. But the US army itself cannot be savage (even though Chris Kyle, one of its greatest heroes, can) because they're civilised and don't kill and rape as indiscriminately as the other guys. "Savage" is a term for the Other, which is exactly how Chris Kyle uses it. It illustrates his racist ideology. quote:Chris Kyle may very well have been a psychotic killer and a savage. I'm not convinced he was a white supremacist with theories about the master race tho: just accusing him of that doesn't make it so, especially as we have pretty shoddy proof of it. "Well, he may have been a horrible person, but at least he wasn't literally a nazi." BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 18:14
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Ligur posted:That's in your head; I never said those things. Like I said before, the things in your head are mostly your problem. Not mine or the problem of anyone else. Don't take other people up for them unless you are looking for help. I'm going by what you've posted. I don't know where you get this impression that you only say 100% what you intend to say and that everyone else is just a paranoid "creep" reading too much into thing, like this: Ligur posted:It might be loaded for you but not for normal people. The problem is basically yours in that case, don't blame your issues on other people ok? As hilarious it is, like your retreat into nonsequitors like the first line there, it's also telling. I'm assuming you have some history with people thinking you're racist or whatever, and you need to retort with that you only mean what you want to mean and nothing else. Like exactly now, when you end up associating yourself with a racist and deeply disturbed man when you invoke "savages". It's like saying "trickle-down economics" and insisting that you're not trying to refer to neoliberal policies. Ligur posted:Also it's perfectly understandable in a war if you are a soldier to call your enemies whatever if it makes it easier to kill them. According to you, using "savage" to dehumanise people is perfectly understandable. One might read this as saying as that it's acceptable to do so, but it's not really what you've said. You say it's a fact of life. I'd be reading too much into things. I might say that you're freely subscribing to the same racist ideology by setting an arbitrary line that when crossed turns people into inhuman monsters, but you're really not. It's certainly not what you intend. We're talking about some horrible people, but "savages" has a very precise meaning and history. You say as much with 'drooling barbarians' and taint the struggle against people like ISIS with colonialism and racism. You simply fail to see any kind of larger context in which language and politics exist, like when you deny that there is anything off about a movie where an American man heroically kills people in another country. And as you've said, Chris Kyle, great American hero and exemplar of the US Armed Forces, was a "savage," much like Iraqi insurgents/ISIS. With your agreement, I feel safe to say that there is no real difference between the Americans and their enemies. Ligur posted:For the thread in general: What is it with JSW's and other creeps having a forceful need to inject the word "literally" into every post or statement they make? Is it some sort of a power word, perhaps like a spell or a magic incantation, which changes the world to reflect their views? Something else? I literally used it only once, dude. For someone who says that a certain word choice says nothing about you, you're rather quick to paint me as an "JSW" on something that I write. e: One might say that only creeps find something objectionable about "literally". It's just a word, after all. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 20:07
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I kept wondering why Greece is such a big deal now, but I suppose it's more or less might show the future of Europe. It's a rather nice break from Russia stuff though. Whenever I look at those yellow posters, it's "Russia Russia Russia" or "Putin Putin Putin". BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jan 26, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 23:58
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SnowblindFatal posted:I reckon there have been enough studies about how happiness doesn't increase much at all from increased wealth once a person's basic needs are met. I hope that no one really questions the fact that we're living on borrowed time when it comes to resources found on Earth. drat treehugger, worrying about this and that. All we have to do is invent the sampo and thus circumvent entropy.
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Feb 16, 2015 15:54
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Despite the continuous chanting, the ufo did not materialise and take them aboard.
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Feb 23, 2015 17:46
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Cerebral Bore posted:It literally reads like they're filming a live-action version of Pasila. This, it even sounds something the main character would say.
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Feb 25, 2015 10:39
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Elukka posted:Why the gently caress is the left so uniformly against nuclear? Essentially I have to vote for gently caress the environment or gently caress the poor. I might not vote because of this.
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Mar 7, 2015 14:48
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brakeless posted:Finally, a quantifiable election promise. If I lived in Oulu I would actually vote for that man to reward his bravery and dedication to progress. I think I've found my representative.
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Mar 11, 2015 16:25
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My prefered candidate is - from RKP? Oh, when I said I want a referendum on Nato membership, I meant it so that we could democratically reject it. Everyone is apparently more concerned with slight economic adjustments. Nobody who's strongly in favour of the environment (i.e., in favour of nuclear power).
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Mar 12, 2015 21:12
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I'd rather we hang ourselves as a people than let any herra hang us.
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Mar 12, 2015 22:54
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There's no real hope. We're passive observers in our own destruction. There is no joke. All is death.
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Mar 20, 2015 17:39
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Does it matter how they got rich? Behind every great fortune there's a crime and so on.
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Apr 19, 2015 17:48
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Ligur posted:One theory about the left losing it's original base, then not gaining that much new support from the population on average is that the modern left is mostly concerned about identity politics: the LGBT movement, feminism, multiculturalism, globalism, the welfare of the Bulgarian Roma and so on. Isn't it the other way around, and they're concerned with those things because they don't hold appeal to workers. e: Thinking about it, those are the same things. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Apr 20, 2015 |
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Apr 20, 2015 14:38
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Thank you Sweden I now want persus in government
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Apr 20, 2015 14:51
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Ratpick posted:Like, is this actually a thing that people who live outside of Helsinki think is going on here? I live here and I've yet to see any major displacement of Finnish people because of immigrants. Is this just a case of confirmation bias on Teuvo's part (when you believe that beduiinit are coming here to steal our lands and form terrorist cells you see beduiinit everywhere) or have I just drunk the vihervasemmistomädättäjä Coolaid and thus become blind to the fact that I'm apparently the only white Finnish person left in Helsinki and that the guys who run the local kebab place are probably a terrorist cell? I think he's talking about some kind of white flight phenomenon.
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Apr 20, 2015 17:19
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I think this kind of sums up the failure of modern Leftism as ligur also implied with the 'bubble' discussion: today's leftists have essentially become bourgeois. Postmaterialist politics and 'lifestyle' ideology is a middle-class business. Jyppe posted:I guess TF wants to go to opposition once again: So is the 'EU priority' immigration plan workable at all when it seems that all the 'desirables' are probably suffering from the exact same structural problems?
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Apr 24, 2015 20:27
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Please tell me that there indeed is vähän semmoista at Karhupuisto.
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Apr 26, 2015 09:51
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Geriatric Pirate posted:So unless you value Finnish people's income higher than other peoples' income (then again, most leftists here seem to be closet racists when we look at the assumptions underlying their theories) I agree with your post mostly but holy lol
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Apr 28, 2015 19:57
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Bushmeister posted:Insightful piece from New York Star, circa 1890: Pussaa peipipoki petirummasta kitsiin
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May 3, 2015 11:27
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It's all sounds the same after the SCUM Manifesto anyway.
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May 9, 2015 11:15
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Oldsmobile posted:In other political news, Anarchy in the Fin-land: Everyday I'm convinced more and more of my thesis that the Left has become bourgeois.
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May 16, 2015 10:33
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Probably just Nietzschean wording.
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May 26, 2015 15:41
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Hahahaha, didn't expect straight-up fascism.
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May 27, 2015 18:54
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I don't like persus, but it seems like people are taking any excuse to criticise them - there's a guy complaining about both persu policies and persus not driving those policies through.
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May 27, 2015 21:05
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Imagine a boot etc.
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May 31, 2015 20:05
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vuohi posted:Holy loving poo poo. If this is true, Soini will pretty much instantly lose every working class voter he has. It works for Republicans.
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May 31, 2015 21:07
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Having opinion on Islamism can be a sign of being dumb though. To me it seems that all mainstream approaches to Islamic radicalism in Europe, whether left or right, are fundamentally flawed because they approach it as an immigration issue.
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May 31, 2015 23:32
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