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Ligur posted:I think the elections will be hilarious. I assume there shall be flinging of poo poo on an unprecedented scale. Also laugh at those who think they will now quickly have to emigrate to la-la land if TF makes it to ruling party. If you guys are worried about the society creaking on it's seams you might as well magic up your huge payday now and move tomorrow, it does not matter who wins and who loses. This is true. Throwing a tantrum and yelling empty threats don't exactly make anyone seem the noble defender of the welfare state. "You voted WRONG, totally unlike I TOLD you! I am VERY DISAPPOINTED in you! Before this, I CARED about you, but now I am going to ABANDON you! I'll write in my diary (and the internet) how I wish you were DEAD!" Everyone who cares about politics always seems to be a victim of someone. Whether it is the "neoliberals" or "etelän media", they're always out there to get you. The traditional three big parties have each royally screwed up, trying to mash through some really unpopular laws. Soini and the True Finns have capitalized on each and every one of them, and now it seems to be the time to reap what has been sown. The rural wastewater regulation, the goddamn media charge (flat rate household tax, so gently caress the poor and the single), the PIGS loan, the proposed gun laws, Lex Nokia and Lex Karpela (nerd poo poo), and pretty much everything immigration-related recently. The TF have opposed all of these if I am not mistaken. I'm not going to take anything personally, I'll just sit back, enjoy the ride, and wait for some sanity to return. It's not like God is going to come down from the heavens and help Soini ban abortion, so who cares about him and his opinions. On the personal side: I've voted for Greens before, but this time I won't vote at all. The Greens have become (if they've ever been anything else) a party of identity politics for Helsinki liberals, and I don't care for that BS. All I want is good public transportation, cheap and nice-looking housing, and Soininvaara for the dictator. I will never vote for a party that loudly campaigns either for or against gay marriage. I mean, who the gently caress cares about marriage, gay or straight? (Note to foreigners: Gay civil union is allowed and is legally almost the same thing as marriage, with lowered inheritance tax and widow's pension and all. This silly squabble is only about the word "marriage". I do not secretly want to smite the sodomites, they are not wicked or abhorrent to me.)
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Feb 23, 2011 20:04
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If people don't want to "out" themselves in official forms, then change the forms. You don't need an election for that. This is largely a pseudo problem in any case, because you have to inform state agencies about the identity of your spouse if you want to receive certain household benefits, so Adam and Steve will be outed anyway, unless they lie that they are just flat mates. Want the inheritance tax deduction for your same sex partner? Outed again. What we really need is a change in culture so that you don't have to be in the closet, but that is obviously easier said than done, and harder to make into a simplistic campaign catchphrase. iJay posted:I happen to think that making marriage completely gender neutral would be unequivocally a good thing, so why shouldn't we aim for that? And (gasp) maybe even campaign for it? Because I want to vote about issues that actually matter, such as taxation, basic income, energy/transportation, and building policies. Every reasonable liberal person is at least "live and let live" sort of indifferent about what sort of category gay relationships are filed under. This is why it's a cheap campaign tactic aimed at harvesting purely expressive votes that are cast against Soini and Räsänen, and I happen to dislike cheap tactics no matter who employs them. The elections should also be a way to bring (or re-establish) important issues to the public discussion and consciousness, and this chance is currently being wasted by spending most of the time by sneering at Timo Soini's opinions. It's also short sighted, for after this current fad is over, it's back to square one again but at least we've got the new marriage law, yays and hooray. The Greens have just started to seem stupid and smug to me recently, the overblown importance of the marriage legislation is just a peak of it all. I could also add that the sex ratio of the wealthiest 1% of the people doesn't matter to me at all (I don't care about corporate board sex quotas, and I can't understand why anyone under the age of 30 does), I'd rather see schools improve the quality of their vegetarian food to make it appealing rather than forcing students to eat it, and I don't see how it is an essential freedom to camp in the middle of Helsinki much like I don't think it as an issue of free speech that you shouldn't say "neekeri" any more. Also gently caress the proposed state subsidies to expensive organic food, which might even happen because certain someones just love to milk more money for rural areas. After the Greens clean up their act, I'll probably vote them again, but this year it's a definite no-no. It's likely that Greens are winning more than losing with their "Bob Helsinki" spirited campaign, so don't mind about little crank me.
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Feb 23, 2011 22:31
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Metrilenkki posted:At least it isn't the usual interchangeable manifesto with "our main theme is more nice things" and "200 000 new jobs and a piece of Moon for everyone". And it speaks volumes that that'll still be a major selling point. Yes. Of course the True Finns program is half full of retarded poo poo, but I really can't understand how the other parties have the nerve to promise 50.000-100.000 new jobs every election, and never deliver them. The power that the state has on employment seems very limited, and so the best they can do is hope that the market and lucky entrepreneurship create the jobs so that the politicians can take the credit for them. What I really find hardest to understand in the TF is their absolutely steadfast and irrational opposition to the EU. I guess everyone has already forgotten what sort of currency devaluation hell it used to be here in Finland before the Markka was left for the whims of the market in the 90's, not long before we adapted Euro as our currency. Finnish living expenses have never grown this slow, and it is easy to buy cheaper goods from other EU countries without any customs charges. A lot of great stuff has come out of the EU, but I guess some people do not notice things that work silently in the background. (Not trying to claim that there are no bad sides to the EU, there are, but the good sides are pretty drat huge.)
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Feb 27, 2011 13:56
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I find it funny how the arguments for/against compulsory Swedish and compulsory military service are kinda the same, except that the TF-voting proles and the LA/G-smartypants switch sides. "It shouldn't be called 'pakkoruotsi' (compulsory Swedish) like the proles do, it should be called 'hyötyruotsi' (useful Swedish)." "It shouldn't be called 'asevelvollisuus' (compulsory enrollment) like the smartypants do, it should be called 'etuoikeus oppia maanpuolustusta' (privilege to learn to defend your country)." As if changing a word would instantly change the reality and people's attitudes. "It's not that hard, you should stop complaining and just do it, or are you some kind of a loser who can't? It's an useful skill and you'll gain an edge when seeking employment. You never know when it will be useful, and that day you'll regret not learning it. You'll lose nothing by learning (in this world of ours with no opportunity costs of any kind), so it will cost you nothing. You'll lose a connection to the majority of people if you don't do this like our tradition says. You owe it to our nation and the past generations. You have an attitude problem and you'll wise up when as you age. More girls will become available to you if you do it (SERIOUSLY)." *barely passes the Swedish courses learning nothing, then gets conscripted into alternative service where mops up floors for a year*  Personally I'd love to see both of those draconian systems disappear. It would be beautiful if the TF actually managed to remove compulsory Swedish, then get voted out by a swing to the serious Left who remove compulsory military service.
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Feb 28, 2011 15:55
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This is interesting and I'm anxious to see how this pans out. If some serious evidence isn't on the table soon, wanna take a guess what's gonna happen to the credibility of the victim/dissident image of the Homma folk?
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Mar 1, 2011 20:08
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The goalposts seem to have moved overnight, so which is it now? Do they have some extreme opinions about foreign aid, or did they threaten someone with violence? As much as one might dislike Suomen Sisu (and I had read their web pages when the "unnatural mixing of races" bit and others were still there), it's a bit too much to believe that piece of news at face value. As if Suomen Sisu would not be bad enough as it is, but you have to make things up on top of it. Remember when Tarja Halonen wanted us to join the Soviet Union. Yeah, in the 70s, when she was working for the famous vanguard organization "SAK". Don't believe it? Why are you defending this useless lesbian? You must be a commie yourself.
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Mar 2, 2011 12:40
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ToxicAsset posted:Healthcare is being privatized by doctor union lobby and right wing parties mainly by coming up with new/increased subsidies for private healthcare, raising minimum payments in public sector, letting political agendas mismanage public sector resource and money wise and letting private sector to send nonprofitable cases to the public sector. This leads to private healthcare being perceived as efficient, fast and good service while public sector is seen as wasteful, slow and bad service. This is mostly true, but not completely. The private sector does cherry pick profitable patients, but no matter how you distribute our current health services (by capability to pay or by first come first serve basis), there aren't enough doctors to treat all our ill the way that the current standards require. I could be completely wrong, but I think that this is because of our aging population and the explosion of new treatments in the past 20 years. Our psychiatric services are basically doomed, you will not get treated unless you try to kill yourself or someone else. A doctor in training wrote a nice web log about our general health services some time ago, it's a good read (in Finnish only). Btw, some of his patients are clearly abusing the "free" system in a wasteful and irresponsible way. The odd thing is that once you get past the general health services and sent into special treatments, things work out pretty wonderfully. A relative of mine, a penniless uninsured young guy, suddenly got a pneumothorax and got instantly treated for free. In less than a month I am getting my cataract fixed (old folks' disease under the age of 30 yay, a long story), and it will cost me about a hundred bucks. I have to pay about 35 bucks every time I see a specialized doctor, so it is basically a steal for me, and I would most definitely be in the gutter without the Finnish system. Oh and our insurance companies are exactly as disgusting responsibility dodgers as the US ones, we just haven't given them quite as much power.
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Mar 8, 2011 13:15
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I guess Old Arhis isn't in the graffiti forefront anymore, he rolls with the big guys now. For the Left Youth chairman Dan Koivulaakso graffitis still seem to be very important, among other things.quote:"Niin sanotusta valtavirrasta tai ihannekuvasta poikkeavaa käyttäytymistä kontrolloidaan viime kädessä väkivalloin ja yksityisyyttä loukkaamalla; vääränlaiset vaatteet johtavat laukun tarkastamiseen, vartijafirmoille syydetään rahaa graffitimaalarien vainoamisesta, yksityisyyttä loukkaava kameravalvonta yleistyy, poliisi ahdistelee ei-suomalaisen näköisiä ihmisiä ratsioilla, ja mainokset peittävät horisontin. Valvomalla kaupunkitilaa yhä uusilla menetelmillä taataan turvallisuusteollisuuden jatkuva kilpavarustelu. Todellisuudessa tämä luo pelon ilmapiirin." I guess those laws against filming police officers "at work" are good after all, since cameras create an atmosphere of fear. quote:"Kun kapitalistit pääsevät sanelemaan, mitä saa tapahtua kaduilla ja toreilla, lukea seinissä ja tolpissa, tapahtua rakennuksissa tai kuka saa viettää aikaa missäkin, johtaa se myös kapinaan ja tilan haltuunottoon. Arjen vastarinta näyttäytyy erilaisina joukkokokoontumisina – mopomiitteistä ostarissa hengaamiseen sekä muun muassa katutaiteena ja talonvaltauksina. Täysin samoista ilmiöistä on kyse Pariisin tai Malmön levottomuuksissa, joissa nuorten ja siirtolaisten hallintapyrkimykset tuottavat vastareaktioita auktoriteetteja kohtaan." Clearly these are more reasonable and relevant positions to hold than opposing obligatory Swedish like a hick.
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Mar 8, 2011 21:37
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Kemper Boyd posted:Security cameras and their recordings have practically zero oversight and whoever operates them can always tamper with what they keep on logged and on file. I am all for oversight. Cameras aren't the problem, corrupt guards are.
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Mar 8, 2011 22:19
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Kemper Boyd posted:The thing is, there's no realistic way to implement any kind of oversight procedures. If you want that, you'll end up with no cameras since they become too expensive. What would this too expensive method be? Kemper Boyd posted:To be honest, unless you specialize in CCTV use you don't see much of it. It's not like people talk much about the illegal poo poo they do, except sometimes. I talked with an old security guard once who told me about using external cameras outside a location to film people having sex. This is pretty drat far from that "atmosphere of fear" argument in the original text (which wasn't written by you, so I'm not accusing you of anything). What would be your solution to the clearly illegal use of security cameras? Do you think security cameras have any use or merit to them? What implications your solution would have to the right of individual people to film in public? Should it too be taken away because of some peeping tom? None of this is strictly election-related, I'm just curious. My original point was that calling the Left Alliance "the true social democrats" is a bit rich, and that they are pretty drat far from being a viable protest party to most people. From everything I can gather, once the SKDL remnants retire or kick the bucket, the official party uniform will be the Che-shirt. I'd loving love it if the Social Democratic Party gave a poo poo about the enforcement of labor laws, because if they do, I ain't seeing it. I'll give due credit for LA on that one. *doesn't care if foreign workers aren't paid according to collective bargaining rules* *actually exploits underpaid foreign/immigrant workers through shady subcontractors* *keeps workers on their toes by endlessly chaining temporary work contracts* *is... the Finnish government*
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Mar 10, 2011 22:25
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Kari Uotila from LA is also pretty cool. I hope he gets re-elected.
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Mar 10, 2011 22:26
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Yeah, people are what they are, 50% of them are less intelligent than average. There's no point in getting angry about it, much like there's no point in getting angry about the gravity. Still it's as if our political leaders are not satisfied how low our culture of political discussion has gone, and want to take it even lower. It's a bit worrying when the most reasonable comments come from the mouth of Jyrki "it's FANTASTIC to privatize public natural monopolies, FANTASTIC I say" Katainen. Edit: A linku to Katainen about the events in glorious Nippon. (In Finnish) vuohi fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Mar 13, 2011 |
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Mar 13, 2011 13:14
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Metrilenkki posted:Woah man I think you're getting the Stubber and Katainen mixed up. And let's remember that currently Olkiluoto-3 is four years overdue and is projected to cost about 4,7 billion euros and will almost certainly cost more. OL3 might have gone way over the budget, but that's a different thing than trying to use people's present overstated fears to discontinue nuclear power in Finland, and I was talking about the latter. Actually I don't even think that this was Arhinmäki's intent, he just took the free publicity, just lying on the table there with only a month from election. If it turns out that nuclear power actually is more expensive than the viable alternatives, I won't be crying over them nuculars. I don't care how my affordable electricity is produced, as long as it does not have ridiculous negative externalities like burning the various carbons likely does. After all, I am a young whippersnapper and a city dweller so I don't even know how the milk gets into the stores, and how the electricity pours from the sockets in the wall.
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Mar 13, 2011 21:50
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Kiviniemi: No straight answer to anything. She the clean front woman for dirtied mofos like Väyrynen, Pekkarinen and Kääriäinen who are all hustle 24/7. At least smart enough to plead the fifth, but shows off too much money with them furs and all. Katainen: Cares nothing for the regular dope fiend. Don't wanna admit his product is poo poo. Steps hard on H so he and his buddies can get high on some prime coke, claims it only fair and that there is no other way. Sinnemäki: Acts like she ain't in the game, but she is. Has had regular dealings with Kiviniemi and Katainen, and everybody knows. Urpilainen: Still disorganized after the loss of Big Moses. She learning, but not fast enough. Says that he who messed up the count should suffer, not the whole crew, but still wants the crew to pitch in?! Her homie so desperate earlier that he pawn his own door. Arhinmäki: Stuttered with words, was high at the very moment? Longs for the old days when still had a strong supplier to back him up. Has guts but ain't getting far. Soini: Tells the same old jokes over and over again, thinks himself a funnyman. Has been gathering muscle recently, maybe takes over some real estate soon? A renegade across the tracks has his number, maybe plans to rip and run on him. Räsänen: Fallen into disfavor. Gonna get got? Wallin: Small time playa in it together with the big playas. Leads a small ethnic crew with unquestioned loyalty, can deliver extra muscle when things get ugly.
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Mar 19, 2011 12:30
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That's some efficient use of the legislative resources right there. Have your web servers in the United States, don't attach anything to your name, and this law will not touch you. Problem solved.  It boggles my mind how clueless and most of all unwilling to learn our guardian dinosaurs are about the series of tubes. Jyrki Kasvi could have slowly explained it to you. But hey, just keep on making laws that make you look stupid, if that is what was agreed upon when the cabinet was chosen. Looking like a bunch of fools all the time is good for you. Maybe this is one of those "clear signal" laws. A real clear signal to you, Honourable Misters Lehto, Mäenpää, Holappa and Ellilä.
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Mar 24, 2011 01:23
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ToxicAsset posted:Actually, USA would probably have no problem swapping Lowtax with, for example, a wikileaks person or the guy who runs the chechen server(he would probably end up in Russia though after USA swaps him to them), if Hob_Gadling's use of "darkie" breaks the law. It's not about extraditions, it's about the American definition of free speech, which is way wider* than in many European countries. A citizen of the United States will face no consequences whatsoever for tending a web server that violates some Finnish naughty speech law, and a Finn can easily buy those services from the US. Matters that actually concern the national interests of the US are a different kind of beast. * = except for boobs in mainstream cinema, which are obscene.
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Mar 24, 2011 17:24
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ToxicAsset posted:Well, it was mainly tongue in cheek, but why would free speech definitions of US affect a crime happening in Finland? I'm assuming that finnish lawmakers might be stupid enough to ignore the server being physically in USA and claim the crime was committed in Finland(because the poster was in Finland, for example) because the facebook stuff happened on servers in USA if my googlefu is right that FB has at lest some of it's servers in Virgiania, for example. I knew that the Lowtax bit was a comical hyperbole, but you did mention Wikileaks too. This is how it goes: 1) A potty mouthed Finn wants to say naughty things about the left handed and how they should all be shot, and to provide a forum for like minded people. 2) The potty mouth anonymously buys web hosting services from the United States, and calls for a genocide of the left handed in clear Finnish. 3) The Finnish police, ever vigilant, wants this potty mouth punished. They send the American web host a request for the personal information of the potty mouth. 4) Dual criminality: If the potty mouth's bile isn't criminal behavior in the US, the web host doesn't have to give officer Reinikainen jack poo poo. Reinikainen knows this, and doesn't even bother trying, so 3 and 4 really never happened. I don't remember where I read it, but I think that getting American companies to give up any personal information on their clients is actually a huge hassle already. Maybe the police should pose as a wealthy advertiser? Edit: This has nothing to do with extraditions! It's only about identifying authors of some offending texts so that they can be prosecuted domestically. vuohi fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Mar 24, 2011 |
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Mar 24, 2011 18:24
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ToxicAsset posted:But anyway, I was mainly arguing against the idea that just using a foreign country(unless it is carefully selected) for the server would be 100% protection against the law. At no point was I saying "you can do anything on the innernet and not get caught ever". Lehto was writing with his own name and face, and that's why he got caught, for libel. He wasn't trying to stay anonymous, being the e-village idiot that he is.
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Mar 24, 2011 19:42
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Stubb Dogg posted:Seppo Lehto might be misunderstood genius these days but he's been progenitor of political blogging in Finland and if not Finnish jail administration having dim view of internet access in prison, he would be probably performing his unique version of political performance art in whatever will be the next Big Thing in internet. My dissertation concerns the construction of political, ethnic and sexual otherness in the works of the surrealist author and poet Seppo Lehto. In his works Lehto cleverly subverts the classical Kafkaesque plot and turns the tables on the judicial bureaucracy. It is now the judiciary that has to cope with absurd situations that cannot be understood with the framework of its normal sensibilities. Ultimately the judge will have to face the decision whether or not Klaus von Grewendorp actually humped a frozen chicken in its anus-hole while acting as an agent of the miehittäjä-ryssä, even though the judge doesn't understand the meaning of the question due to mental limitations. Lehto weaves numerous historical characters into the ongoing story, much in the vein of Emperor Julian (the Apostate) in his "The Caesars", who all give their testimony on the issue of Klaus von Grewendorp's policital, ethnic and sexual character. Most of them agree that von Grewendorp did indeed hump a frozen chicken in its anus-hole, but the late president C.G.E. Mannerheim and the deity Yahweh add that he actually violated a white wagtail in a similar fashion. On the deeper levels of his work Seppo Lehto discusses various philosophical and sociological themes. On the matter about the true nature of the reality and the possibility of true knowledge, he shows some affection for Moorean epistemology of common sense: "Ei ole olemassa muita rodun mukaan nimettyjä sankkereita kuin neekerisankkeri, joten neekerisankkeri on neekerisankkeri." Lehto's normative ethical system centers mostly on the desirability of the demise of miehittäjä-ryssä, and we can deduct that his ethics are teleological. Whatever action that advances the demise of miehittäjä-ryssä should be the first priority of any moral actor. In his late period he became was convinced that Ruskieness was no longer the single worst issue of the late modernity, and he adapted the process oriented approach of Norbert Elias (and others) to develop the theory of niggerization.
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Mar 25, 2011 14:09
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I learned my English from video games and heavy metal.ToxicAsset posted:SDP joining the rightwing goverment would really be their It's a goddamn miracle that Jaakonsaari has actually babbled something along those lines. Am I not seeing something or is she just insane? All the other prominent Social Democrats have vehemently denied that they could enter into a cabinet of the "big three". If the NC becomes the largest but not large enough for the current parties to stay in cabinet, negotiations will become very interesting. (Note to foreigners: It is a custom that the party with most seats is the first one who is allowed to start negotiations for forming a cabinet.) NC and the TF are at opposite ends regarding EU, which makes them relatively incompatible, as we can see from the recent "Mr. Likely Future Prime Minister could we please sit in the cabinet and still vote against the guarantee fund" debacle. If CP or TF were to be the largest party, almost anything could happen. I've understood that in terms of raw numbers the TF scores highest at the polls, but it is very likely that many of their poll supporters won't bother to turn up on the election day. Only a miracle could prevent the TF from being the biggest winner, and while they're still far from being the biggest party, their likely huge gains give some moral leverage for their post-election demands. It's hard to say what those demands would be, as I struggle with making sense of what Soini actually wants other than make slogans and crack jokes. Interesting times.
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Apr 1, 2011 22:36
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Glah posted:Well, one option would be that SPD, Center and TF could form a coalition. And the party leaders aren't dismissing the idea about grand coalition: http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/teemat/vaalit_2011/2011/03/saksa_opettaa_osa_2_2481037.html Not really surprising that Urpilainen is expecting it the most, they would be on the cabinet either way thanks to TF's and NC's opposing views on the crisis fund. Disregarding all the "right wing populists" hysteria, it seems pretty clear that TF gets most of its votes from bitter ex-Social Democrats. Bitter ex-Centrists likely come close second, if not bitter inactives. This is why it is a lot easier to imagine a cabinet of TF+CP+SDP rather than anything with TF+NC+x. NC seems to be slowly moving towards lower tax progression (favoring VAT and "green" consumption taxes over the income tax), which is also not on TF's agenda. Soini has made his move towards SDP and CP already, even if it is unclear what he actually wants. The way I see it, everything depends on which party emerges the largest after the election and starts the negotiations, and whether or not the current cabinet parties retain a majority, however small it might be. If NC is the largest without right wing+centre majority, then things get complicated. (Not denying that there are some hard right wingers in the TF, but characterizing the TF as "right wing party" is not simple or clear cut thing to do. "Anti-establishment Euro-skeptic populist party" would be closer to the truth. I know many people through work who vote TF, and I have understood that they do it just to say "gently caress you".) It's sad what sort of disarray the Social Democrats are in, likely losing support even when they had the advantage of making all sorts of promises in the opposition. Sure was smart to forfeit all recruitment of young voters, wasn't it, just loving them in the rear end all the time? Cerebral Bore posted:It may just be me, but I'm faced with the situation that the largest party in the parliament may very well be one one who thinks that my language and my culture isn't worth poo poo, and nobody seems to give a flying gently caress. Oh well, at least we've still got all the money[/bättrefolkwhining] My home city of Tampere has about a thousand Svenskatalande people living in it, and it's the largest Swedish speaking population in any inland city/town in Finland. I hear Swedish spoken in the street only a couple of times a year. I hear more Swedish in those 5-8 days a year I spend in Helsinki than the 345+ days I stay at home. Even our few hundred Somali are more audible as a language minority than our thousand Swedish Finns. Most Finns living inland would not even have an opinion about Swedish Finns without that one thing which I will not mention any more in this thread. Thinking anything about Swedish Finns in here is about as silly as thinking something about salty winds.
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Apr 2, 2011 14:48
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I was going to make a post arguing that embittered ex-Social Democrats should not be too hastily labeled as "right wing", but then I went to watch a longish video. When I came back, you had sharpened your argument so that it is now much easier to accept. If the PolSci types call welfare parties with a national focus and socially conservative streak "right wing", then the TF is right wing in by that definition, even if not by some other one. I have to say that you are indeed very informed about a country that you neither live in or know the language of. You are spot on about the NC not being a conservative party any more and how this effects party/voter distribution. You should, however, be careful with any articles about the TF written before last year. You need a whole another explanation for anything happening in 2010 and past that. See here the graph of opinion polls and it's instantly clear what I mean. It can't be the merits of the TF that explain their skyrocketing popularity, it has to be the failure of other parties. If a whole fifth of the electorate is ready to vote for a protest party just to piss off their previous politicians, it's the power holders who have been screwing up a bit too much. The reason I am peevish about some generalizations about the TF and especially their voters is that I know a handful of them through a few years of (blue collar) work. I certainly relate to and have sympathy for them, even though I myself am a conscientious objector, pro gay rights (incl. adoption), willingly car-free, and in many other ways the odd guy out. Yet my work mates have always been at least respectful towards me, and in return I don't accept any vilification of them. Right now the debate here in Finland is bordering insane and Adolfs are casually being mentioned. (Still, some very suspicious people with actual links to blatantly racist organizations are currently TF candidates. There's no denying that either.)
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Apr 3, 2011 01:48
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ToxicAsset posted:I have pretty similar ideas you do actually, Vuohi. Bit more pragmatic on the military service side though. In the end I was relieved for medical reasons so I didn't have to sit it out, but I did say to the conscription officer that if I am not relieved, then give me the papers to sign so that I'll take the prison. I wasn't going to take the punitive 13 months in alternative service. Sorry if I phrased myself unclearly about that. Anyway, it's a pretty long gap in attitude to some of my work mates who think that ideally everyone should serve and that it's a matter of personal honor. Still, they're often surprisingly tolerant and understanding of diverging opinions. Almost everyone has some oddball relative they can compare me to. It's a losing battle against the younguns at their crazy ideas.
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Apr 3, 2011 12:10
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The State Treasury and Finnish Government Institute for Economic Research agree: The political parties are incapable or unwilling to present realistic means to combat long run budget sustainability problems. Instead of proposing serious tax hikes and/or spending cuts, the economic growth fairy is supposed to bring us money while we sleep. The fairy is believed to boost economic growth by an average of 8% per year, for the next 40 years. Finnish-born head researcher Juhana Vartiainen of Swedish Government Institute for Economic Research comments: "The party lines reveal the horrifyingly poor level of public discussion on economic policy", and also "if you believe that just economic growth can solve it, you don't understand the problem". Meanwhile, a Helsingin Sanomat columnist writes about something that even young Social Democrats (you mean those not quite yet in their 40s am i rite lmao?!?!) and the most hard line economic right agree on: The post-war generation milks ridiculous pensions from those born in the 70s and after, but wouldn't really mind if they got still a little more. (I own Pajamäki's book but have not yet read it.) This country sometimes... v  v
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Apr 3, 2011 22:38
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Azoreus posted:Quite frankly the True Finns could be located on a political compass in the same area where the National Socialists of Germany where. They have a lot of similarities, being xenophobes, for the basic Finns against the 'elite', nationalistic and conservative. As an example both are against "postmodern humbug" (the nazis went as far as banning it, TF wants to cut subsidies for anything like it), and they love classical-romantic art (thus all the eagles and emblems of the nazis) You know who else has a good idea about postmodernism? Yeah, that's right...
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Apr 4, 2011 17:57
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Rexroom posted:BTW, I find the Left Alliance's honest declaration that they're going to raise taxes refreshing. Other parties seem to have a fear of voter backlash if they dare to "hate rich and successful people", instead turning to never-ending cost-cutting programs that undermine social infrastructure. The Right have said that they might raise the VAT again. Assuming you are talking about the series of interviews of the party chairs that Yle is doing, the question about taxes was a bit unfair towards Arhinmäki. The interviewer listed six or seven taxes that the LA want to raise and then posed a suggestive question: "I think you really like taxes, don't you?" (This might sound lame to Americans, but in here we generally favor respectful debate over mudslinging about how much the country spends on "useless" wildlife research. That question was seriously loaded.) Well hell yes, if we are going to have to hike taxes, is it somehow worse to raise several taxes a little than raise a single tax, the VAT, which is a flat rate tax and is paid by everyone in pretty much everything? Disregarding the loaded question, I think that the interviewer was excellent, and that Arhinmäki didn't do very good. Too many rehearsed bits about him being "proud" about this and that, and the demand for minimum wage of 10 euros is one true piece of populist nonsense. Why not propose a whole 15 euros while they are at it, because neither is ever gonna happen. You don't need ten euros per hour to get by nicely, and good wages don't help the unemployed either. If anyone of you has read Tommi Uschanov's Mikä vasemmistoa vaivaa ("What's wrong with the left"), I mostly agree with his theses. He has a smug style of writing, but the content is good, and he offers a pretty nice guidelines for understanding the odd phenomenon that most Finns are further left in their opinions than in their voting habits. edit: preposison are heard vuohi fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Apr 5, 2011 |
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Apr 5, 2011 19:58
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uncleTomOfFinland posted:I have a gut feeling that has been the case for most of the 1st world countries since the late eighties. quote:Just look at how Americans think wealth is distributed, how they think it ought to be and what the reality is. It makes even self-identified republicans look like a bunch of pinkos. That "true" opinion that they base their vote on, e.g. stop the socialest mooslem healthitlercare, might itself be based on totally false premises, but that's how people are and will likely always be. Learning some new facts never really hurt anyone, so it's always nice when that happens.
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Apr 7, 2011 20:50
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Rexroom posted:So yet another day and another election interview in YLE.  I almost can't believe the stunt that Soini tried to pull off. Goddamn that guy, has he got the nerve or what. I do have to say that the interviewer team is excellent, especially the female lead. She managed to get both Soini and Sinnemäki pretty riled up without being aggressive, pushy or annoying at all. Soini looked like he was the condescending know it all uncle, and Sinnemäki forgot to let Laturi speak even cutting him off a couple of times. I snickered gleefully.
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Apr 8, 2011 15:38
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Neo-nazis don't vote because the current "immigration critique" takes heavy influence from American conservatism and is therefore pro-Israel, which obviously means that blarrhgahgrg juuden akent our loord is lusifer änd not zeesus. It's hilarious actually. I'm not exactly worried about any bald-headed loonies, but the tear gas episode last summer was still extremely negative development in Finnish political climate. Not the handful of extremists alone, but that the act of violence against key political rights, such as the right to gather in public and the right to free expression of opinions, was not completely and unanimously denounced. The fact that the level of violence was relatively low doesn't make it any less an attack against political rights. Edit: seriously lol, the media has already dubbed the guy as "the bullet-proof vest man". I eagerly await for the further escapades of the bullet-proof vest man. Maybe he and the egg man could sing a duet, possibly some new lyrics, custom-made for the occasion, for the stage music of air man. vuohi fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Apr 10, 2011 |
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Apr 10, 2011 13:59
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ToxicAsset posted:On a serious note, is there actual link between this and the gay pride attack, or do possible links exist only because finnish neonazi circles to my understanding are pretty much summed up by this? The latter. I can't see anyone else but the finland's aryan front or aryan front of finland behind that attack. Luckily political violence is so infrequent here that the list of suspects always boils down to nazis or "animal rights activists". Since the pride parade wasn't all clad in furs, it must be the nazis.
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Apr 10, 2011 15:47
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I'd never let a genuine piece of fur to enter my home, but still I have zero sympathy for the Finnish "animal rights movement". gently caress them and everything they stand for. http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/Mies+sai+kolme+vuotta+vankeutta+turkisliikkeen+sytytt%E4misest%E4/1135256436051 (English: Arson of a fur shop in the middle of Turku, tens of sleeping residents put in serious danger. An eyewitness likely saved several lives by immediately calling the fire department. One person convicted, other let off due to insufficient evidence.) They also have an irritating habit to pick one shop or even one person as their target for constant vandalism and harassment. Just like McDonalds is, like, the world's worst company, and a shining symbol of everything that is bad in this world. Personally I'm ambivalent about the fur production ban. I think it's clear that fur production is a problem that has to be solved from the demand side, but I am unsure whether a ban in here would do good or bad. Fur production as a whole will obviously not end before all people everywhere stop buying furs. You'd think that you could consume conspicuously with a little less cruelty. (About every other of my meals has some meat in it, so you can judge me from there. I don't even consider it a sacrifice or anything, well done vegetarian food is seriously great.)
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Apr 11, 2011 23:08
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One night to the election, I can only repeat what I have already said. I just wish that our "serious" politicians had been smart enough to correctly estimate their political capital and room for maneuvering, and not to alienate whole swaths of people who will now vote anything but their traditional parties. In a sense it's a bit silly to vote on some relatively unimportant issue such as guns or obligatory Swedish, but how come the serious parties could not give in on these totally unimportant issues, even for the least bit? Was it really so important to hang on to every single unpopular law, and involuntarily give birth to a whole coalition of various grudge-holders and discontents, who will now protest vote just to piss on everything? Who exactly has been being foolish, petty, and short-sighted here now? I also wish that the liberalism of our our foremost liberal-left party, the Greens, would extend to issues other than the sexual minorities. Think what you will about the Pirates, the nerd micro party with some really awkward candidates that will never achieve anything, but most of them and their sympathizers (excluding libertarian crackpots) were Green voters before Lex Karpela, Lex Nokia and various Internet censorship laws. Last election Jyrki Kasvi was the second most popular candidate in the Otaniemi area, surpassed only by Sauli Niinistö. I don't think that it is in the Greens' interests to narrow their base by driving off tech-savvy male voters, but I could be totally wrong too. This month Tuija Brax, the Green Minister of Justice, proposed that the mostly redundant blasphemy laws should be replaced with a law that criminalizes "offending religious feelings", and since there has been just one case of "violating religious peace" in the last decade or so... yeah. I'm not saying that the Greens are solely responsible for all those unpopular, problematic and illiberal laws because they are not, but certainly the Greens don't seem to be much troubled by them, and I expect higher standards of liberalism from a party that claims to be liberal. It's no wonder if CP or CD supports moralist laws, but Greens? I really don't want to touch the immigration debate even with a ten foot pole, but I wish that the serious parties on the Left had dared to be a bit more selfish and had not given the initiative to the True Finns for absolutely free. Right now both Social Democrats and the Left Alliance are almost competing which one of them can condemn "tax evasion" the strongest. "Fighting tax evasion" is code for "making foreign workers less competitive against Finnish workers". I'm not saying that actual tax evasion doesn't happen or that it isn't a serious problem, but in my union local it is clearly understood that possibility to circumvent Finnish collective bargaining system is the single greatest advantage of "posted workers". Therefore demanding equal pay for EU nationals posted in Finland is not really about solidarity or fairness, but about eroding their only competitive advantage against native Finnish workers. Yes yes, surely the True Finns have had no influence in the debate on immigration and foreign workers, and absolutely they are just bothersome troublemakers who sabotage reasonable discussion, certainly the SDP and the LA would be acting just the same even if the TF didn't exist. Well, the world doesn't end if the True Finns get their landslide gains, but I sure think that many of the issues now at hand could have been dealt more constructively, and that the level of our political discussion could be a lot better, had some different choices been made earlier. I hope that the next four years will go without too much turbulence, and that the spanking tomorrow will teach our political parties to be a bit more sensitive to popular feelings, at least when the dreaded populus isn't demanding the government to cover all the taxes.
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Apr 16, 2011 22:14
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The cutest chick or the ugliest communist, the eternal civic dilemma.
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Apr 16, 2011 22:54
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Hahahaaha where's your Laestadian Demiurge now? Even though I didn't vote for either, I feel a little happy for Jutta and a little sad for Anni. More than 30 seats for protest/comedy option is a bit too much. Well at least there will be no Kok+Kesk (NC+C) cabinet anymore.
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Apr 17, 2011 18:24
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CTerry posted:What's the usual demographic profile of advance voters? I mean do they tend to lean in a certain direction? This is the way it will always happen. Rural voters vote in advance because of long traveling distances, AND the counts in their small districts finish early. CP is going to get such a beating, if the early votes are this poor for them. Big districts in cities finish last, and they are dominated by NC, the Greens and SDP. Helsinki is the only area where the Greens are second largest party (after the NC). NC and the Greens will always rise in the end.
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Apr 17, 2011 19:07
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Jabu posted:Suvi Lindén didn't get in.  Unfortunately CP voters saw it fit to keep in the other top crooks like Korhonen and Kaikkonen, and honestly I would have wanted Kaikkonen out more than Väyrynen, who must be dying of vitutus right about now. Jyrki Kasvi was left out in Uusimaa, which was the biggest personal disappointment for me this year. This doesn't help my already severe bitterness towards the Greens. Way to screw up something that could have grown into a nice thing, an alliance of environmentalists, techies and liberals. Soininvaara was number one of the Greens in Helsinki, more popular than Sinnemäki, which is good and proper. Now please, please everyone, stop being stupid and concentrate on actual liberalism instead of whatever feels warm and fuzzy at the moment. Everything else was more or less expected, and at least the right wing cabinet of NC+CP is dead and buried. Considering the still surprisingly low participation, there must have been huge numbers people switching between the parties, or then completely different people must have stayed home than in 2007.
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Apr 17, 2011 22:23
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Nesnej posted:This is the single most baffling comment I've read so far. Pretty much anyone I spoke to tonight, agreed that losing Kasvi was a major loss in all conceivable ways. Implying that the Greens were somehow worked against him or sabotaged his campaign is an absolutely asinine accusation. Maybe they should have thought about it more when voting on Lex Karpela, Lex Nokia, the failed, misapplied and unconstitutional think of the children law, the new law about editorial responsibility on web forums, and before Brax opened her mouth on blasphemy law reforms. The Greens might not have "intentionally" worked against Kasvi, but for sure they have given Kasvi's voters full reason to believe that others MPs of the party aren't willing to listen to him. So let's say that there is already a long history of counterproductive decisions, if the Greens wanted Kasvi's voters to stay. When it comes to some issues, the Greens are liberal in name only. This is why so many male voters are hopping ships, even if their little nerd protest party will never achieve anything, which it won't. Almost all the votes that the Pirate Party got (15.000, 3.000 in Uusimaa alone) should have gone to the Greens, had they not screwed Kasvi and themselves over in the long run (not during the campaign). I'll refrain from further interpretations why the Greens lost even in terms of absolute numbers, but in general I think that they have behaved tactically poorly for relatively long time, making all sorts of absolute conditions for their possible voters. Don't think this, don't think that. Those things cumulate. Why would a pro-nuclear liberal ever vote the Greens, when Green liberalism is so selective and concentrates mainly on some pet issues. More than half of Finns already support the gender neutral marriage legislation, but this alone won't turn into too many actual votes, because even liberal people aren't convinced about the depth of Green liberalism. I sincerely hope that the Greens get their act together, so anything I might have said carries absolutely zero bad will. Like always, I put my hope on Soininvaara.
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Apr 18, 2011 13:22
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slowdave posted:My sister linked this on-point blog post on facebook that should probably be passed around. I trust this guy's reasoning. Where can I sign up for one of those almost banned art exhibitions? I'd also like everything else that he's having.
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Apr 19, 2011 18:34
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On more serious note, I can only sigh sadly whenever I see comments around the innernets about how the Greens should have left the cabinet immediately when the nuclear permits were given. Please all Greenpeace types, stop for just one minute and ask yourself, what cause would it have helped exactly, except pandering to your religious fervor? The Greens could not have voted any more anti-nuclear than they did, they all voted against the permits and still you're displeased with them? What the hell? It also seems that NC, TF and SDP are negotiating about forming a cabinet. It's nice that we will finally get an answer to the question that has been in the air for a year: What is it that Timo Soini actually wants.
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Apr 19, 2011 19:57
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| # ¿ Apr 23, 2024 19:26 |
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Surely some of the TF candidates and new MPs have said some reprehensible things, either recently or some time back, but if your imagined worst case scenario of the next four years resembles anything of a totalitarian dystopia, I really don't know what to say. Really, what's the worst thing that can happen?
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Apr 20, 2011 15:35
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