Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Sivias posted:

The US is setting up a military base in northern Australia. Turkey has deployed forces along the Syrian boarder. Jordan and neighboring countries are participating in large scale military games. Russia and Iran are strategically positioning warships in the Mediterranean and Strait of Hormuz, respectively.

I'm not saying this is anywhere near the scale of the buildup of WW2 or that it will, but the idea of small conflicts conflagrating into a larger crisis is not unheard of.

Except the last 60 years have consisted of large numbers of regional and proxy conflicts that didn't escalate because the big powers have no real reason to get into a shooting war with each other and will pretty much bend over backwards (Soviet and US airmen shooting at each other over Korea but we pretend not) in order to prevent reality getting to that state of affairs.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 01:20

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# ? May 22, 2025 13:20

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Alchenar posted:

As for China, their position is extremely simple: they'll never support anything in the UN which supports the idea of intervention in a country's internal politics, nor of its right to territorial integrity.

Yeah, last thing China wants is to give people pause regarding their ~~conquered areas~~ reclaimed motherlands like Tibet and potentially Taiwan.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 01:58

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Nap Ghost

keyframe posted:

The alternative is shooting it down with a rocket and that would not fly with the "oops sorry we could not ID the craft as a Turkish, it was short range AA fire from the ground that shot it down" excuse Syria gave.

Apparently they are salvaging the bigger parts of the plane now and will give a more definitive statement later.

This is pretty much flat wrong. Just because it was reportedly not shot down with AA or AAA fire, but a missile, doesn't mean they had properly identified where the aircraft is from. You can lock a missile onto all manners of aircraft without knowing what they are, how big they are, where they're from, whether or not they're armed, etc.

Even if they IFF'd the aircraft and it had a response, that means virtually nothing unless the response is listed on civil flight plans for the day or it matches the codes designated for friendly aircraft.

This doesn't mean the Syrians couldn't have known it was Turkish, but assuming that missile = they knew what it was is just wrong.

edit: also rockets != missiles

# ? Jul 14, 2012 01:58

keyframe: Sep 15, 2007; I have seen things

mlmp08 posted:

This is pretty much flat wrong. Just because it was reportedly not shot down with AA or AAA fire, but a missile, doesn't mean they had properly identified where the aircraft is from. You can lock a missile onto all manners of aircraft without knowing what they are, how big they are, where they're from, whether or not they're armed, etc.

Even if they IFF'd the aircraft and it had a response, that means virtually nothing unless the response is listed on civil flight plans for the day or it matches the codes designated for friendly aircraft.

This doesn't mean the Syrians couldn't have known it was Turkish, but assuming that missile = they knew what it was is just wrong.

edit: also rockets != missiles

Yea except they said the flight path of the plane was no secret and Syria should have had it ID'd on their radars from the origin.

I am admittedly no expert on flight/radar systems but that is what the Turkish newspapers are saying.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 02:02

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Nap Ghost

Yeah, it's still possible they had it ID'd the whole time, I'm just reiterating that using a SAM in no way makes it more likely they had ID'd it than if it were shot by AA. In fact, using AA would make it even more likely they'd ID'd the aircraft through visual or electro-optical means.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 02:05

SexyBlindfold: Apr 24, 2008; i dont care how much probation i get capital letters are for squares hehe im so laid back an nice please read my low effort shitposts about the arab spring

thanxs!!!

Medieval Medic posted:

I am curious, everyone is talking about Russia either supporting Assad to the end or pulling out with their tails between their legs, but isn't it more likely they would just pay off some of Assad's cronies for an assasination if things got really out of hand, before any other country got involved?

i'm not sure how likely it is that assad's death would end the war, though, unless 1) his brother is loving got too, and 2) the remnants of the regime are somehow magically compelled to negotiate/flee instead of scared shitless and driven to even more agressive behavior
besides, i don't think that at this point the rebels are willing to settle for anything less than dismantling the entire Assadite system, even if the new guys in charge bring them Bashar's neck on a silver platter

SexyBlindfold fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jul 14, 2012

# ? Jul 14, 2012 02:09

unlimited shrimp: Aug 30, 2008

Brown Moses posted:

NOW Lebanon has an exclusive eye witness report from Treimsa which seems to indicate cluster munitions were used

I'm also getting the best Twitter followers since my cluster bomb stuff

She only follows 554 people.

I barely have a handle on this situation but seriously man, kudos to you for all the good work you're doing.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 02:12

keyframe: Sep 15, 2007; I have seen things

mlmp08 posted:

Yeah, it's still possible they had it ID'd the whole time, I'm just reiterating that using a SAM in no way makes it more likely they had ID'd it than if it were shot by AA. In fact, using AA would make it even more likely they'd ID'd the aircraft through visual or electro-optical means.

Yea I am not saying you are wrong or anything. Like I said my only knowledge on this comes from reading the Turkish newspapers.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 02:55

Torpor: Oct 20, 2008; .. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK

Brown Moses posted:

I'm also getting the best Twitter followers since my cluster bomb stuff

She only follows 554 people.

You're avatar looks terrifying in that specific context.

With regards to the F-4 shoot down, I find it somewhat amusing that Robert Ballard had a part in it's recovery.

He's like an international man of finding-things-in-water.

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-bob-ballard-downed-jet-0713-20120712,0,4192948.story

article posted:

He said he was on vacation in Jackson Hole, Wyo., when he received a call from Francis J. Ricciardone, the U.S. ambassador to Turkey, asking for his help finding the lost aircraft and the bodies of the pilots, Capt. Gokhan Ertan and Lt. Hasan Huseyin Aksoy.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 03:49

something original: Sep 9, 2011

Some weeks ago there was a NYT story on the transfer of weapons at the Turkey - Syria border, mentioning how Saudis and the Qataris were sending money to buy them and how US intelligence agents were helping the distribution. Now in their latest report they talk to a bunch of Syrian commanders and the guys basically tell them there's no money and guns coming to them:

excerpt posted:

His fighters, he said, needed money and weapons. But they were not getting the support promised from the donors and opposition leaders outside Syria.

�We are borrowing money to feed our wounded!� Mr. Moayed shouted. �There is no distribution of the weapons,� he added. �All of our weapons, we are paying for them ourselves.�

To underwrite their weapons purchases to date, the fighters and commanders present said, they raised money themselves. Sometimes they gathered donations from their villages and neighborhoods. Other times, they said, they sold their cars and their land. One young commander, who called himself Captain Bilal and had a partly healed bullet wound to his lower right leg, said he needed weapons so badly a few months ago that he asked his fianc�e to return the jewelry he had given her.

�She said �No,� � he said. �So I broke up with her and took it back and bought the weapons I needed.�

The weapons, the commanders said, were obtained through corrupt Syrian officials or through what they called a �Turkish and Russian mafia� in Turkey.

At times the meeting of the commanders descended into shouting. At one point, several commanders vented their fury at a commander who said he had in fact been given arms.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 04:06

Valley Troll: Jun 19, 2012

Two Americans were kidnapped in Sinai on Friday in the latest tourist kidnapping by Bedouins since the revolution. A bunch of Chinese employees of a cement factory were kidnapped and then released several months ago.

quote:

The US Embassy in Cairo announced that it was in close touch with Egyptian authorities about the case of two American tourists and their Egyptian tour guide were kidnapped in Nikhil, middle Sinai, on Friday afternoon.

On Twitter, the embassy said Egyptian authorities "are doing everything they can to bring about safe release of the American tourists."

Armed men led the tourists into the desert, demanding the release of two men, one of whom was convicted in a drug case and is serving 25 years in Borg el-Arab prison in Alexandria, an Egyptian security source said.

The source identified the lead kidnapper as Jermy Abu Masouh from al-Tarabin tribe. He said the kidnapper is demanding the release of his uncle Mosleh Abu Masouh, currently in jail after being caught in possession of a large quantity of drugs.

Security forces have contacted the tribal leaders to negotiate the release of the kidnapped, the source said. The kidnapper has previously struck deals with security forces, under which he was pardoned of several crimes.

Jermy confirmed in a phone call to security that the tourists had not been subjected to any violence. He said no negotiations will be made before the release of Mosleh Abu Masouh and Mahmoud Salama.

According to the security source, Jermy Abu Masouh said that Mosleh Abu Masouh and Mahmoud Salama were arrested two days ago based on �fabricated drug dealing charges.�

Jermy Abu Masouh also threatened to kidnap more tourists if his relatives were not released. He said the officers who fabricated the charges against the Bedouin should be brought to justice.

He said he will give security forces 24 hours before he starts beating or torturing the kidnapped.

There have been a string of tourist kidnappings in past months, which in many cases have resulted in a deal brokered by security forces for the tourists' release. In all cases, the kidnapped have been released without sustaining any physical harm.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 08:38

pantslesswithwolves: Oct 28, 2008

Valley Troll posted:

Two Americans were kidnapped in Sinai on Friday in the latest tourist kidnapping by Bedouins since the revolution. A bunch of Chinese employees of a cement factory were kidnapped and then released several months ago.

For what it's worth, this is just the most recent kidnapping of foreigners in south Sinai, but it's the first in a while. There were a number of tourists kidnapped in the vicinity of St. Catherine's monastery in Feb. and March of this year, and all were released unharmed within hours of their kidnappings.

The Bedouin unrest isn't anything new. It was ever present during Mubarak's reign with the occasional armed standoff or shoot out with security forces, but it's escalated since the revolution. I think it's because a lot of SCAF's attention has been focused on Cairo and the Delta, so a lot of security forces that kept the peace oppressed the Bedouin with even more of an iron fist to other areas.

A lot of it stems from how the Bedouin were treated in a vein similar to how the US has treated Native Americans: keep them confined to lovely land and disenfranchise them. There's also the matter of all the Bedouins swept up in the Sinai bombings of 2004-2006.

The Tarabin are the tribe most present within some areas that are really critical to Egypt's tourism industry, notably the north-south highway between Dahab and Sharm el-Sheikh. They are poor and HEAVILY rely on tourists to supplement their meager incomes. To take hostages is a big statement- it basically tells the government that they're willing to gently caress with both their livelihood as well as one of the economy's pillars in order to make a point: don't neglect us like you did under Mubarak.

Due to the length in time passed since the last incident (March 2012) I think this kidnapping is less of a protest action and more of a one-off incident. I don't think Bedouin unrest in S. Sinai ranks high on the government's "to address" list at the moment.

I think the tourists will be released unharmed soon. Now, if they had been kidnapped in El Arish in North Sinai, I think it'd be a much worse story.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 10:05

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

How not to handle UXO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rv2HeMhkGQ

# ? Jul 14, 2012 11:34

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

suboptimal posted:

I think the tourists will be released unharmed soon. Now, if they had been kidnapped in El Arish in North Sinai, I think it'd be a much worse story.

Because of the Takfiris?

# ? Jul 14, 2012 12:20

Ghetto Prince: Sep 11, 2010; got to be mellow, y'all

That doesn't even make sense, why would anyone go on vacation in Egypt right now?

Sivias posted:

How's the old saying go?
World War II occurred because no one thought it could.

Yeah, watch Paris 1919, even the dudes drafting the treaty knew that they hosed everything up.

It's stuff like the Arab spring that no one ever sees coming.

Ghetto Prince fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Jul 14, 2012

# ? Jul 14, 2012 13:11

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Storyful has put together a bit on the clusterbomb story, and The Cluster Munition Coalition has also been writing about it. A witness interview from the recent massacre also points towards the use of cluster bombs. so it appears they've been deployed against civilians. I'm on the search for more evidence of that at the moment.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 13:22

Mans: Sep 14, 2011; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Jesus Christ i've watched so many hosed up videos in this thread but i think the latest fad of "Syrians picking up explosive ordinance like stones" is creeping me out.

Stop doing that! 100 year old ordinance blows up when touched, those things just fell from the sky!

# ? Jul 14, 2012 16:16

Torpor: Oct 20, 2008; .. and now for my next trick, I'll pretend to be a political commentator...

HONK HONK

Mans posted:

Jesus Christ i've watched so many hosed up videos in this thread but i think the latest fad of "Syrians picking up explosive ordinance like stones" is creeping me out.

Stop doing that! 100 year old ordinance blows up when touched, those things just fell from the sky!

In their defense, those things did just fall from the sky and not explode; throwing it couldn't do much more. Explosives can become unstable over time and become more deadly.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 16:25

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Can't post for 11 hours!

Frankly I'm always more shocked when I see kids handling just about anything that could kill or maim them or someone nearby. Not only is it dangerous, but it's really sad to think what the children must think life on this planet is like :smith:

# ? Jul 14, 2012 16:35

Rent-A-Cop: Oct 15, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Torpor posted:

In their defense, those things did just fall from the sky and not explode; throwing it couldn't do much more. Explosives can become unstable over time and become more deadly.

Yeah this is wrong. You really shouldn't play with UXO because there's no telling why it failed to explode. Hell, some munitions actually employ a time-delay or motion-activated anti-tamper trigger just to prevent their removal from the battlefield. Others may have an automatic self-destruct timer, and you don't want to be around when it gets to zero. Not to mention the purely mechanical failures that can happen inside a bomb. They can drop several thousand feet and not detonate, but all it takes to make a boom is enough of a bump to free a single stuck mechanism.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 17:07

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=504181 posted:

Four Palestinian refugees were killed and several others were injured after Syrian security forces opened fire at demonstrators in Al-Yarmouk refugee camp on Friday, sources said.

Palestinians in the Damascus-area camp told Ma�an that hundreds of refugees had taken to the streets to protest the killing of 16 Palestinians earlier in the week.

At the demonstration, Syrian forces opened fire on protesters, killing at least four, whom witnesses say suffered gunshot wounds to the upper body.

On Wednesday, 15 officers affiliated to the Palestinian Liberation Army in Damascus and their driver were found dead after they had been kidnapped en route to the Palestinian refugee camp Nairab near Aleppo several weeks ago, a Palestinian official said.

Palestinian refugees in Syria must do military service for one month in the Palestinian Liberation Army. The PLA was established as the armed wing of the Palestine Liberation Organization, but later integrated under Syrian military command and used to police refugee camps.

The group was returning from training in a military institute in Misayaf between Hama and Homs when a group of gunmen seized the bus, the head of the PLO's politburo in Damascus Anwar Abdul-Hadi said.

He said Palestinian officials in Syria were in touch with the leadership in Ramallah, and they had contacted the kidnappers who refused to provide a justification or release the group. The identity or affiliation of the kidnappers was not clear.

On Wednesday, Syria security notified Palestinian leaders that the officers were found riddled with bullet and stab wounds on the main road near Idlib, Abdul-Hadi said.

While Palestinian officials insist that refugees in Syria are not taking part in the conflict raging in the country, the bitter fighting between opposition and state forces has spilled into camps across Syria.

Palestinians in Syria told Human Rights Watch in June that Syrian security forces are detaining hundreds of people, including Palestinians, in the al-Yarmouk camp.

They said that thousands of Palestinians have recently fled the city of Homs and its suburbs because of the violence there, as well as from Daraa due to recent heavy shelling, and have sought refuge in al-Yarmouk.

The largest Palestinian refugee camp in Syria which is home 200,000 Palestinians, al-Yarmouk has also experienced a number of deadly incidents.

A Syrian security official threatened to raid the camp due to Fatah's alleged support of anti-Assad demonstrations, sources in the camp told Ma'an in March.

Days later, a vehicle belonging to the Palestinian Liberation Army in the camp was hit by an explosion that killed three people.

Last June, 14 Palestinians in the same camp were reported killed and another 43 injured after attacking the headquarters of leftist group PFLP-GC amid tensions between supporters and opponents of the Syrian regime, PA official news agency Wafa reported at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW4YMgStdSc

# ? Jul 14, 2012 17:14

Amused to Death: Aug 10, 2009; google "The Night Witches", and prepare for

To change geographic locations a bit, some Mali news. The Islamists in the area they control overplayed their hand a bit at least in one city. Nothing game changing or anything, but nothing has been said about Mali in a while.

http://www.voanews.com/content/northern-mali-residents-rise-up-against-islamists/1404464.html

quote:

Residents of Goundam, in Mali's Timbuktu region, rose up against the armed group Ansar Dine on Friday after the group carried out beatings in its bid to impose strict Islamic law. Goundam residents said people began demonstrating after the group whipped a woman holding an infant.

One resident said the situation was calmer, but tense by Friday evening. He said five vehicles with Ansar Dine reinforcements arrived in the late afternoon in Goundam, a town about 80 kilometers southwest of the city of Timbuktu. Ansar Dine threatened it would round up demonstrators and the streets cleared out, he said.

Hours earlier, at mid-day local time, tires burned in the streets of Goundam, and youths carrying clubs and machetes were rallying throughout the town.

Goundam lies in the zone that was seized by Tuareg separatists and Islamic militants in late March and is now completely controlled by Islamic groups, including Ansar Dine.

Ansar Dine says it wants to impose a strict interpretation of Islamic law throughout Mali. It has carried out severe corporal punishments and in recent weeks destroyed ancient Muslim shrines in Timbuktu it says are sacrilegious.

Residents of Goundam say Ansar Dine�s beating of a woman holding her child pushed the population over the edge Friday.

"The woman was at a pump to get water, her baby on her back," said Alassane Ciss�, 47, a school director and native of Goundam. "Members of Ansar Dine were passing by and started to whip her because her scarf was down around her neck and not on her head�" He said the child fell to the ground.

"This was the straw that broke the camel�s back," Ciss� added. "Youths immediately started coming out into the streets. They first gathered at the hospital and when Ansar Dine chased them from there they moved to another part of the town. Youths burned tires to block roads."

The infant and the woman are reported to be in the hospital.

Residents say Ansar Dine shot in the air during the demonstrations. They said that at around 1 p.m., just before Friday prayers, youths armed with clubs and machetes surrounded the main mosque in Goundam, vowing not to let members of Ansar Dine go inside.

Abba, a youth in Goundam, said the people have had enough. The population might not be armed, he said, but their numbers are greater than Ansar Dine�s.

"There are more of us than members of Ansar Dine," Abba said. "It�s just that they have the guns. We are here, armed with clubs and machetes and axes. We�re waiting for them."

School director Ciss� says the people see that the Malian state is not helping the people of the north so the youth of Goundam "have decided to take charge of their fate."

A technical team from the regional bloc ECOWAS is in Mali meeting with civil society groups and officials of Mali's interim government, installed following a March 22 military coup. ECOWAS is planning a military intervention in northern Mali; it is awaiting a formal request by the Malian government and official backing from the United Nations Security Council.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 18:15

FeculentWizardTits: Aug 31, 2001

Brown Moses posted:

How not to handle UXO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rv2HeMhkGQ

Oh my god, this is like watching a scene in a horror movie where you're just waiting for something to jump out of nowhere and kill one of the characters. I actually winced when he nonchalantly tossed the shell back into the gravel pile.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 19:13

cochise: Sep 11, 2011

Spakstik posted:

Oh my god, this is like watching a scene in a horror movie where you're just waiting for something to jump out of nowhere and kill one of the characters. I actually winced when he nonchalantly tossed the shell back into the gravel pile.

Wow. I was actually kind of turning my head hoping to avoid seeing those guys and that loving kid right behind them explode. Just wanted to scream "stop doing that poo poo especially around kids" to that guy.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 19:22

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Via Brown Moses's twitter feed,

http://twitter.com/#!/Brown_Moses/status/224201972901871617 (click for video)

Photos from a disarmed car bomb in Syria.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 19:26

A BIG FUCKING BLUNT: Nov 10, 2007

Rent-A-Cop posted:

Yeah this is wrong. You really shouldn't play with UXO because there's no telling why it failed to explode. Hell, some munitions actually employ a time-delay or motion-activated anti-tamper trigger just to prevent their removal from the battlefield. Others may have an automatic self-destruct timer, and you don't want to be around when it gets to zero. Not to mention the purely mechanical failures that can happen inside a bomb. They can drop several thousand feet and not detonate, but all it takes to make a boom is enough of a bump to free a single stuck mechanism.

This. No bomb is safe until has been deactivated. Just because it didn't explode when it was supposed doesn't mean it can't explode

# ? Jul 14, 2012 19:31

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/world/middleeast/syrian-pilots-defection-signals-trouble-for-government.html?pagewanted=2&ref=middleeast

Very interesting interview with a defected pilot. Lots of double standards between Sunni and Alawi officers.

quote:

For the pilots, squadron life could be riven by unequal standards and simmering distrust. Though Alawites are a minority, they make up roughly two-thirds of the pilots, another pilot who defected said. Captain Trad said Alawite officers had higher social standing, greater professional latitude and more privileges than their Sunni colleagues: a climate that fueled resentment.

�If a Sunni officer is even five minutes late, there will be a response,� he said. �But let an Alawite officer be late for a day. Nothing will happen to him.�

The Alawite commanders� suspicions were so great that Sunni pilots, when they are not flying, are largely confined to bases, he said. They are rarely allowed to leave their duty stations to visit their families, or meet together outside the base walls, out of fear that they will defect or rise up.

In one five-month period, he said, he was allowed to leave his base only 10 times when off duty; Alawite pilots could go home between each mission.

Helicopters in his squadron flew with three-man crews, he said, but their commanders made certain no crews were all Sunni.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 19:37

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

Xandu posted:

Via Brown Moses's twitter feed,

http://twitter.com/#!/Brown_Moses/status/224201972901871617 (click for video)

Photos from a disarmed car bomb in Syria.

I'm really interested in doing a post about that, can you provide the original source for the photos, and any translation of that text?

# ? Jul 14, 2012 19:41

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

It's from their facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.492905014054817.110715.485209911490994&type=1

I can do a real translation later, but the first photo is an instruction on how to use it and the other two are just the front side of a detonator (I think the word on the front is receiver but I know nothing about explosives)

edit: I also think they might be jihadists, based on the Haroun al-Rashid name and the graphics, which are almost identical to the ones Kataib Ahrar al-Sham uses.

Xandu fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jul 14, 2012

# ? Jul 14, 2012 19:44

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

So are they disarming the bomb in the video, or setting it?

[edit] I see they are disarming it, who do they claim set it? Assad's forces?

# ? Jul 14, 2012 19:50

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

No, they definitely disarm it, although they do put it in another car at the end, which raises some questions about what they're planning on doing with it.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 19:51

Brown Moses: Feb 22, 2002

I'll put together a post about it a bit later, seems significant.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 19:54

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

quote:

[edit] I see they are disarming it, who do they claim set it? Assad's forces?

Ah, the beginning of the video says

The Haroun al-Rashid Brigade, belongong to the Brigade of al-Habib al-Mustafa, disarmed an explosive device that Assad's forces put in a Saba (brand name) car near a big mosque in Jobar to explode near protesters.

Xandu fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jul 14, 2012

# ? Jul 14, 2012 19:57

Svartvit: Jun 18, 2005; al-Qabila samaa Bahth

Xandu posted:

No, they definitely disarm it, although they do put it in another car at the end, which raises some questions about what they're planning on doing with it.

They don't put the bomb in the other car, just the gas tank that the bomb was supposed to ignite. And yeah the text on the back of the detonator is nothing interesting, but what does مستقبل ١٣ mean in this context? I just don't get it.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 21:00

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

Amused to Death posted:

To change geographic locations a bit, some Mali news. The Islamists in the area they control overplayed their hand a bit at least in one city. Nothing game changing or anything, but nothing has been said about Mali in a while.

http://www.voanews.com/content/northern-mali-residents-rise-up-against-islamists/1404464.html

Speaking of Mali, I read this is in the Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/13/islamists-mali-threat-europe

quote:

On Thursday, Islamists consolidated their control, driving Tuareg rebels from their last stronghold in the town of Ansogo, leaving the entire north of Mali, including Gao � the main base of the Malian army � in Islamist hands.

Islamists have surrounded Gao with landmines, making it almost impossible to enter. But the Guardian has obtained film footage depicting foreign Islamists patrolling Gao, dragging the bodies of senior Tuareg insurgents through the town behind pick-up trucks and conducting public whippings of three young people for "offences" under sharia law, including smoking and having sex outside marriage.

"Islamists supported by AQIM are now really getting complete control of the region, and huge access to weapons and arms coming from Libya," said Valentina Soria, a counter-terrorism and security analyst at the Royal United Services Institute thinktank. "This can well develop into a more direct security threat for Europe � either by enabling AQIM to either plan and carry out attacks directly in Europe or the US, or to provide a safe haven for people connected to terrorist organisations to get some training and access to weapons."

She added: "The Sahel is closer to Europe than Afghanistan or Pakistan and easier for people from Europe to get in and out, so it provides all sorts of advantages from a logistics point of view for people who want to link up with AQIM and like-minded groups."

Fran�ois Hollande :

quote:

"For an intervention in the framework of the African Union and the United Nations to take place, it's up to Africans to determine the moment and the force," Hollande said during a televised interview on Bastille Day.

"We must show solidarity. At the Security Council, there is a resolution which would enable precisely that intervention to be made with the backing of the UN."

http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/Africa-must-decide-on-Mali-Hollande-20120714

Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jul 14, 2012

# ? Jul 14, 2012 21:02

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Svartvit posted:

They don't put the bomb in the other car, just the gas tank that the bomb was supposed to ignite. And yeah the text on the back of the detonator is nothing interesting, but what does مستقبل ١٣ mean in this context? I just don't get it.

It's a wireless receiver, so when the signal is sent to it, it tells the bomb to go off.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 21:27

Svartvit: Jun 18, 2005; al-Qabila samaa Bahth

Yeah, but the bomb is the green pack that looks like a battery of fireworks. Does مستقبل mean reciever?

*edit: Made an effort *sigh* and checked Wehr and yes it does.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 21:31

Fangz: Jul 5, 2007; Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Wait, so is Mali some kind of horrible four-way mess now? Ugh.

# ? Jul 14, 2012 21:34

SexyBlindfold: Apr 24, 2008; i dont care how much probation i get capital letters are for squares hehe im so laid back an nice please read my low effort shitposts about the arab spring

thanxs!!!

Xandu posted:

edit: I also think they might be jihadists, based on the Haroun al-Rashid name and the graphics, which are almost identical to the ones Kataib Ahrar al-Sham uses.

couldn't haroun al-rashid be interpreted as a callback to arabic greatness rather than sunni supremacy though? i mean it doesn't sound a lot more jihadist than naming your brigade after Ummar, and i'm pretty sure the Farooq Battalion isn't jihadist

and the graphics are along the lines of the FSA logo. i mean there's only so many iterations of the rifle, flacon and flag colors you can pull off

# ? Jul 14, 2012 21:54

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# ? May 22, 2025 13:20

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Fangz posted:

Wait, so is Mali some kind of horrible four-way mess now? Ugh.

It's more of the three way with the Mali government being so totally inept and corrupt, they ended up with an accidental coup d'�tat. Here is a good summary of what happened:

quote:

The troops at Kati started to plan a march to protest how the government had handled the rebellion. At around 1 p.m. on March 21, Minister of Defense Gen. Sadio Gassama came to the Kati barracks to ask them to call it off.

Soldiers who were present said the general talked down to them, and the crowd became angry. The mutiny erupted when the minister's bodyguard shot into the air in an effort to push back the mob.

"The minister spoke in a way that was not polite," said George Coulibaly, a civilian who lives in the Kati camp and accompanied the soldiers during the coup. "He said things like, 'You want to march? You're a bunch of uneducated people. I'll educate you.'"

The renegade troops stoned the defense minister's car as his driver floored the gas to get away. They forced the doors of the armory and emptied it out. Then they began hunting down the other officers, nearly all of whom fled or hid - except Sanogo, whose recent dismissal as an officer had given him credibility with ordinary soldiers.

The crowd, led by Sanogo, initially planned to march to the palace to dress down President Amadou Toumani Toure, said several soldiers. Instead, the president fled. They found themselves inside the seat of government.

"Our objective was not a coup d'etat," said Lt. Samba Timbo, one of the leaders of the putsch. "Not at first."

By late afternoon, around 100 soldiers had arrived at the state television station. They sent the employees home, and television screens across the country went black.

"The presidential palace fell in their laps," said the cameraman who helped them broadcast their first message, and who requested anonymity for his safety. "For two hours, not a single person, not a single interlocutor, tried to contact them to see what they wanted. To negotiate. It was after that they got the idea for a coup."

# ? Jul 14, 2012 21:55

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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