- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Shageletic posted:
I'm kind of surprised by the protests spreading to Djibouti, a city state, while being very much Muslim and Arab influenced, but solidly seen as African as well. This spotlights the shakiness of neighboring autocracies Eritrea and Ethiopia.
Djibouti isn't really arab influenced, the population consists of Somalis and an Afar large minority, both being African ethnic groups. Their grievances are mainly the huge unemployment rate (over 50% afaik) with many jobs going to western expats instead of locals, and the widespread government corruption.
In Eritrea I don't think theres any chance for protests since the regime there is north korea level repressive, all media is state owned and president Afewerki uses the hate towards Ethiopia to keep the population united under him.
In Ethiopia a revolution would turn into a civil war and the country would disintegrate since it's a country made up of about 80 very different ethnic groups that would rather join countries inhabited by their own people (Ogaden would join Somalia, Gambela would go to South Sudan) or declare independence rather than staying under the current Tigrayan/Amharic rule.
And in both Eritrea and Ethiopia internet penetration is very low even by African standard (Ethiopia has 500.000 internet users for a population of 80 million, while for example Nigeria has 50 million internet users out of ~150 million) so you won't see the same facebook/twitter coordination as in Tunisia or Egypt.
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Feb 19, 2011 19:59
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Apr 26, 2024 08:28
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Frackmire posted:
It would only be racist if African mercenaries were known for their humanitarianism at some previous point of time. But they are not even soldiers anymore, they're criminals at best and animals at worst, created by deplorable living and political conditions in that part of the world.
Ah yes because white mercenaries involved in slaughters across africa in the past 60 years were so much more humanitarian
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Feb 20, 2011 18:18
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Nenonen posted:
Gaddafi actually supported the Southern Sudanese rebels in the 1980's during Nimeiry's leadership because Nimeiry supported the Israeli-Egyptian peace. Libya was basically being a dick to anyone who didn't agree with Gaddafi's ideals of Arab and Muslim unity, even if this meant funding Christian rebels.
Soon after Nimeiry left the relations between Libya and Sudan improved, however, so much so that Libyan troops were allowed to be stationed in Darfur to operate against Chad. Trying to understand North African politics might become easier after Gaddafi has gone...
Yea, I was talking about his relations with the current regime in Sudan.
Speaking of politics, Gaddafi poses as a pan-african leader in Africa, while in Europe he declares himself as the "defender of white and christian europe" against the "hordes of African savage immigrants" and he got a shitload of money from EU and especially Italy to prevent immigration.
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Feb 21, 2011 00:35
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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pincky posted:
It seems that he can stop talking. Everytime I think he stops talking he thinks of something else to talk. This is very strange
I think he wants to outdo Castro or something. Well its way past midnight here so I'm going to sleep, I expect him to still be talking when I wake up tomorrow morning
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Feb 21, 2011 00:38
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Regarded the so called "African Mercenaries" thing in Libya I found an interesting analysis on it http://tomathon.com/mphp/2011/02/libyas-african-mercenary-problem/
I fear for all those migrant workers and emigrants on their way to Europe who might get lynched just because of the colour of their skin.
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Feb 22, 2011 19:21
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Mr. Flunchy posted:
What exactly are you basing this on? On what basis can you possibly say that the majority of Libyans would now support a campaign of racial genocide? You are painting Libyans very clearly as violent bloodthirsty racists - as far as I can see, other than the conjecture you have formulated in your head, there is no basis for this.
Well, violence against (black) immigrants has happened before
quote:Xenophobia in Libya
Margaret Bald
World Press Review senior editor
The outbreak of violence was described as a reaction by Libyan youths to the surge of more than a million legal and illegal immigrants from Nigeria, Sudan, Ghana, Chad, Niger, Guinea, and Cameroon who have been drawn to oil-rich Libya for work.
Assaults on immigrants began after Libya’s top legislative and executive body ordered a crackdown on employing foreigners, the independent This Day of Lagos reported (Oct. 10). Other press reports said the attacks were sparked either by rivalry between Nigerian and Libyan drug gangs or a dispute at a soccer match.
“Libyans resent the money the immigrants make...and perceive these outsiders as beneficiaries of Gaddafi’s support for African union,” wrote Cameron Duodu for London’s Gemini News Service (Oct. 6). Gaddafi has been touring the continent to promote the formation of a United States of Africa.
In the wake of the violence, the Libyan government summarily deported thousands of immigrants, including more than 4,500 Nigerians. Another 5,000 Nigerians and 5,000 Ghanaians were being evacuated by their own governments. Harrowing accounts by returnees of beatings, arson, robbery, and looting of their homes has generated widespread public anger, particularly in Nigeria, where anti-Libyan street demonstrations in Lagos on Oct. 10 left one person dead and several wounded.
“Gangs of Libyan youth were allowed free rein to attack settlements populated by black Africans, both in large cities like Tripoli and Ben-ghazi and outlying villages,” said Lagos’s independent The Guardian (Oct. 11). “Libyan police either participated in these attacks or looked the other way.”
It was widely reported by the Nigerian media that as many as 500 Nigerians had been killed. But the Nigerian government discounted the claims that would put the toll at far higher than unconfirmed reports of between 12 and 50 dead.
http://www.worldpress.org/Africa/1270.cfm
that doesn't mean there will be a "racial genocide" but a backlash is possible considering the extreme extent of racism in north Africa, especially in North Sudan and Libya.
Funny enough Gaddafi himself used to be a vocal supporter of the "arab supremacy/black inferiority" doctrine.
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Feb 22, 2011 23:49
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Thousands of Nigerians are stranded in Libya
quote:Libya: Gaddafi Stalls Evacuation of Nigerians
By Yemi Adebowale
26 Feb 2011
Nigerians stranded in crisis-ridden Libya may have to wait a little longer before being evacuated as Libyan authorities have refused to grant landing permit to the aircraft and personnel designated to bring them home.
President Goodluck Jonathan had on Wednesday ordered the immediate evacuation of Nigerians stranded in the troubled country.
However, sources at the National Emergency Management Agency told THISDAY last night that the team for the evacuation and the aircraft chartered for the purpose could not fly to Tripoli since Thursday as they are still awaiting diplomatic clearance from Libya.
"The Director-General of NEMA, Sani Sidi, who is the leader of the team and others have been on standby at the airport since Thursday waiting for the clearance from Libya. Others in the team are foreign affairs officers, medical personnel and immigration/rescue officers. We are still waiting for clearance," said another NEMA source.
NEMA Spokesman Yushau Shuaib confirmed the problems being faced by the Nigerian team, saying the agency would keep trying until it gets the necessary clearance to enter Libya for the evacuation exercise.
Nigerian embassy sources in Tripoli told THISDAY last night that there are about 2,000 distressed Nigerians in Libya who are eagerly awaiting evacuation.
They are said to be getting a raw deal in the hands of Libyan security men who have been brutally repressing the uprising.
The source said when the embassy was finding it difficult getting clearance for the evacuation team, at a point, it considered the idea of asking the distressed Nigerians to move to Egypt "from where the NEMA team will go and pick them."
However, the Nigerian embassy dropped the idea for fears that the Nigerians may be exposed to more dangers if they should attempt crossing Libyan land borders.
The embassy source further disclosed that the Libyan authorities have unenthusiastic about the issuance of the clearance to NEMA difficult because Libya views Nigeria as an unfriendly country.
This, the source said has been responsible for the frosty relationship between the two countries in the last ten years. As a result of this, Libya closed its embassy in Nigeria over ten years ago. However, Nigeria still maintains an embassy in Tripoli.
Not surprising since Nigeria is the African country that Gaddafi hates most
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Feb 27, 2011 11:17
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Has this been posted yet?
quote:Venomous hatred
Rumours are everywhere of a recruitment drive for mercenaries in Nigeria and Ghana.
And now, as things fall apart, the colonel is defiantly holding on with many reports suggesting that Africans, black Africans, are the crutches on which his depleted army is now hobbling.
In the past week, the phrase "African mercenaries" has been repeated by Libyan citizens and rolling news, eyewitnesses to the violence in Tripoli have spat the word "African" with venomous hatred.
Part of the Libyan story now is the scramble to escape of Turks, Germans, Indians, Englishmen, Italians, Malaysians and a host of other nationalities that include black men commonly known as Africans.
In the violence of the last fortnight, the colonel's African connections have only served to rekindle a deep-rooted racism between Arabs and black Africans.
As mercenaries, reputedly from Chad and Mali fight for him, a million African refugees and thousands of African migrant workers stand the risk of being murdered for their tenuous link to him.
One Turkish construction worker told the BBC: "We had 70-80 people from Chad working for our company. They were cut dead with pruning shears and axes, attackers saying: 'You are providing troops for Gaddafi.' The Sudanese were also massacred. We saw it for ourselves."
Libya's new forces for change have simply picked up where the colonel left off his bloodletting.
Full article here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12585395
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Feb 28, 2011 17:19
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Finlander posted:
That could seriously cause some problems with the legitimacy of the revolutionaries. I mean, if they're a bunch of murderous assholes, they're not any better than Gaddafi, right?
Although, there is the chance that it's a false-flag operation on Gaddafi's part. That could be likely, since the actual mercenaries have apparently been in comparatively good hands. I really don't know.
I don't think anyone can say that all revolutionaries are acting like that, but considering the chaos in the country and the extent of racism in Libyan society it's probable many of them are indeed targeting black people in a bid for revenge.
Another article from al jazeera
quote:African migrants targeted in Libya
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/02/201122865814378541.html
As nations evacuate their citizens from the violence gripping Libya, many African migrant workers are targeted because they are suspected of being mercenaries hired by Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader.
Dozens of workers from sub-Saharan Africa are feared killed, and hundreds are in hiding, as angry mobs of anti-government protesters hunt down "black African mercenaries," according to witnesses.
About 90 Kenyans and another 64 citizens from South Sudan, Uganda, Zimbabwe, Lesotho, Zambia, Rwanda, South Africa, Tanzania, Democratic Republic of Congo, Sierra Leone and Burundi landed in Nairobi on Monday, according to officials.
"We were being attacked by local people who said that we were mercenaries killing people. Let me say that they did not want to see black people," Julius Kiluu, a 60-year-old building supervisor, told Reuters.
"Our camp was burnt down, and we were assisted by the Kenyan embassy and our company to get to the airport," he said.
Rights organisations say that thousands of workers are stranded in camps and private homes, protected by their colleagues as their governments fail to evacuate them from the chaos.
"But why is nobody concerned about the plight of sub-Saharan African migrants in Libya? As victims of racism and ruthless exploitation, they are Libya's most vulnerable immigrant population, and their home country governments do not give them any support," Hein de Haas, a senior fellow with the International Migration Institute, writes in his blog.
Al Jazeera’s Nazenine Moshiri met Seidou Boubaker Jallou, a Malian citizen, who said he fled Libya after many black migrants came under attack.
"The most dangerous situation is for foreigners like us - and also us black people - because Gaddafi brought soldiers from Chad and Niger who reportedly killed Arabs," he said.
Experts say that Gaddafi has had a long relationship with African fighters who now came to his assistance.
Low-paid labourers
Hundreds of black immigrants from poor African countries, who mainly work in Libya’s oil industry as cheap labourers, have also been injured in the violence. Some were unable to seek medical treatment for fear of being killed.
Saad Jabbar, deputy director of the North Africa Centre at Cambridge University, confirms Africans have become targets.
"I tell you, these people, because of their scheme, they will be slaughtered in Libya. There is so much anger there against those mercenaries, which suddenly sprung up," Jabbar said.
About 1.5m Sub-Saharan African migrants work in Libya as low-paid labourers in the oil industry, construction, agriculture and service sectors.
Rights organisations say some anti-Gaddafi protesters wrongly associate African workers with state-sponsored violence.
"African immigrants are now linked to state-orchestrated violence and mass killings, and we may therefore fear the worst about the violent backlash that may follow particularly after Gaddafi is ousted," said Haas.
Ignored by their governments, African workers are one of the most vulnerable groups in Libya right now. Analysts say unless a preventative measure is taken, a massive bloodletting is feared.
"I think it is urgent to do something about it now, otherwise, a genocide against anyone who has black skin and who doesn't speak perfect Arabic is possible," said Jabbar.
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Feb 28, 2011 17:34
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Xandu posted:
It's very plausible it happened, but man, what a vile loving sentence to write
He has a point tho about the venom with which the words "African mercenary" have been used for the last week or so. Not foreign mercenaries, but specifically "African". It's been pretty cringeworthy to read articles on the uprising because of that.
As if Libyans aren't African.
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Feb 28, 2011 17:40
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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I think you're confusing things. South Sudan has voted 99% for separation from Sudan a month ago and they will be an independent country in July. They have their own autonomous government and army (SPLA which has fought against the north Sudanese arabs for decades) and "general" Athor is just a rogue rebel leader who wants to cause trouble for.. political gain I guess? Thing is, it's a separate issue from the protests in North Sudan, which is a different country by this point.
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Mar 2, 2011 22:40
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Apology posted:
I was looking for something a little older because all the recent articles make it sound like another pro-democracy vs. dictatorial government fight, and it's a bit more complicated than that.
The South hasn't quite finished seceding yet, from what I understand. The current fighting might delay the split into two different countries as well, since it doesn't look like Al-Bashir has complete control over the country presently.
If you want to know more about the history of Sudan and how/why the South became independent, check out this very good Al Jazeera documentary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7okF15IeSXE&hd=1
One interesting thing that isn't mentioned in the documentary is that originally the british intended for what is now South Sudan to be part of Kenya (which would have made sense since it shares a lot of cultural/ethnic ties with Kenya or even Uganda), then it was supposed to be an independent country. But Egypt, which at the time intended to annex Sudan in it's territory, intervened and convinced the british to give the South to Sudan, even though the 2 regions don't have anything in common other than arabs raiding the South kidnapping people to sell into slavery.
By the way, that part of history shaped a lot of the discrimination faced today by blacks in North Sudan and North Africa, where "slave" is a very common pejorative word for black people.
It doesn't help that the Nilotic ethnic groups (Dinka, Nuer, etc) which make up the large majority in South Sudan have distinct physical characteristics, like being very tall and having the blackest skin in Africa, so even in North Sudan where an outsider may think Arabs are also black, the Southerners stand out just by how they look.
Another interesting fact, Barack Obama's father was from the Luo tribe which is a Nilotic ethnic group that migrated from what is now South Sudan to Kenya a few hundred years ago. Maybe that's why Obama has been taking special interest in South Sudan's independence, pressuring the North in order to avoid a new conflict.
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Mar 6, 2011 13:20
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Jut posted:and I find it even more worrying that even after the NTC said, 'sorry it won't happen again' we see this
quote:Been wandering through Bab al Azizya compound lots of bodies of what looked like African mercenaries hands bound, On intersection nearby
To be fair, at least those plucky rebels improved from lynching all the black people they could find at the start of the war (like for example when they went to that furniture factory, separated the black workers from the rest then lynched them) to only executing black POWs.
And this isn't a new thing, about a decade ago more than 1000 Ghanaians and Nigerians were lynched by libyan mobs who were angry about "immigrants taking are jobs". Also over there the most common word used to refer to blacks is "abd", which means slave. So.. yeah. It's a cultural thing I guess.
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Aug 25, 2011 16:34
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Lascivious Sloth posted:
Gaddafi is a bad man
Those claims by the Italians reminded me of this article from almost exactly a year ago
http://www.timeslive.co.za/africa/article631492.ece/Gaddafi-seeks-EU-cash-to-prevent-black-Europe
quote:Gaddafi seeks EU cash to prevent 'black Europe'
Sapa-AFP | 31 August, 2010 06:49
Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, on a visit to Rome, says the EU should pay Libya "at least five billion euros a year" to stop clandestine immigration and avoid a "black Europe".
Gaddafi's visit to mark the second anniversary of a friendship treaty with former coloniser Italy had already stumbled into controversy after he said Europe should convert to Islam.
Speaking at a ceremony late on Monday, standing next to Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, Gaddafi said his plan to "put an end to" illegal immigration was backed by Italy, but Berlusconi remained silent.
Backing Libya's request for cash would be in the interests of Europe which otherwise "tomorrow, with the advance of millions of immigrants, could become (another) Africa," Gaddafi affirmed.
Libya "is the entry door for unwanted immigration" which should be "stopped at the Libyan borders," he went on.
"Tomorrow Europe might no longer be European and even black as there are millions (of Africans) who want to come in," Gaddafi argued, describing the migratory movements as "something very dangerous".
"We don't know what will happen, what will be the reaction of the white and Christian Europeans faced with this influx of starving and ignorant Africans," the Libyan firebrand said, adding:
"We don't know if Europe will remain an advanced and united continent or if it will be destroyed as happened with the barbarian invasions."
But Gaddafi insisted: "There is also desirable immigration. There are Libyans who have money and I encourage them to come to Italy to invest."
Gaddafi, who came to power after the overthrow of the monarchy 41 years ago, landed in Italy on Sunday to mark the second anniversary of a friendship treaty signed with Berlusconi that drew a line under the countries' bitter colonial-era relationship.
Ties between Rome and its former colony have deepened since the signing of the friendship accord, with Italy now the third largest European investor in the North African country.
Italy has said it will invest five billion dollars and build a 1,700 kilometre highway in Libya to compensate for its three decades of colonisation from 1911 to 1943.
The two countries also reached an agreement that allows the Italian navy to intercept illegal migrants at sea and return them to Libya, triggering sharp criticism from the United Nations' refugee agency and human rights groups.
The Italians didn't give him the full 5 billion he was asking, but they did give him more than a billion. gently caress Italy btw.
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Aug 27, 2011 08:40
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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Sivias posted:
As far as the rape report goes and the 'honor killing'; if memory serves, some of the more orthodox Muslims regard rape as the greatest insult a woman can bring upon her family.
It's not only a muslim thing, the shaming of rape victims and the idea that getting raped is a dishonorable thing was and still is present in lots of cultures. I mean here's a quote from Immanuel Kant:
quote:No matter what torments I have to suffer, I can live morally. I must suffer them all, including the torments of death, rather than commit a disgraceful action. The moment I can no longer live in honour but become unworthy of life by such an action, I can no longer live at all. Thus it is far better to die honoured and respected than to prolong one’s life by a disgraceful act. If, for instance, a woman cannot preserve her life any longer except by surrendering her person to the will of another, she is bound to give up her life rather than dishonour humanity in her own person, which is what she would be doing in giving herself up as a thing to the will of another.
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Aug 30, 2011 19:56
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Apr 26, 2024 08:28
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- lil sartre
- Feb 12, 2009
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by Y Kant Ozma Post
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drat, just found out about the attack.. I hope Turkey responds by annexing Syria, Greece, Serbia, Fyromia, Croatia, Lebanon, Bulgaristan, Israel, Iran, Cyprus, Egypt, Hungary, Slovenia, Albania, Saudi Arabia, Kosovo, Yemen, Moldova, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Tunisia, Morocco, Georgia, Libya, Germany, Rumania, Ukraine and the Czech Republic, and bring peace and prosperity to these god forsaken lands..
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Oct 3, 2012 22:47
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Feb 19, 2011 19:59
