Middle East Thread of Despair: More Broken Than Syria

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The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Chade Johnson posted:

Hopefully this will force American lackey states to seriously revew their policies, both in support of the US military and, for Egypt, their policies towards the Palestinians and the wider Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Or they'll just stay permanently stuck in 1960, which is more likely given their response to the new revolutions.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2011 22:10

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 10:38

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Lascivious Sloth posted:

It was reported that Obama had a lot of overt calls to Mubarak, and he was pushing for peaceful change, but Mubarak and the leadership was dismissive/made promises they did not keep.

Obama can't make these dictators listen to the protesters no matter what the position and financial/military aid of the US, but at least he is trying. Imagine the actions and rhetoric of Mccain in this ordeal.

Didn't even McCain concede that Mubarak has to bow to all the pressure and get out?

I remember him tweeting (ugh) something like that, prefaced with "regrettably."

# ¿ Feb 19, 2011 23:27

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Toplowtech posted:

The french police actually trained the Bahrain police force in the bloody art of crowd control, fyi.

And everyone should google "alliot+marie+scandal+tunisia", it's funnier when you know that Alliot Marie was in vacation in Tunisia in December with her 92 years old father, flying several trips in a private jet owned by a friend of the Ben Ali clan, having phone calls with Ben Ali and "watching" her father buy a Tunisian company in the plane for 100+k �. She then denied being aware of the riots when she was in "vacation" (despite the first protests starting a week before her trip, what a good foreign minister!), denied that the jet owner was a friend of Ben Ali (he was on of Ben Ali's last presidential campaign main fundraiser), denied that she had phone calls with Ben Ali (twice, one denial for each phone call), denied there was anything wrong with her father deals and she added that people should be ashamed to attack her family 'just' to hurt her.

And last December, the French Prime Minister was in vacation in Egypt.

Also the new french ambassador in Tunisia is a sarkozist neocon, the former french ambassador in Iraq (the "Iraq is a democratic workshop", "we are here to get some reconstruction contracts", "Bush was right" type of guy). There was a protest in front of the French Ambassador today, telling him to "GET OUT LITTLE SARKO" after he apparently went apeshit on Tunisian tv when a Tunisian journalist asked him what was the official french position on the Alliot Marie scandal.

This is really not surprising, France is a real piece of poo poo country when it comes to foreign policy.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2011 02:42

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

QuentinCompson posted:

Nice ambience, though.

I love the Cote D'Azur as much as the next guy, but goddamn man France has been going full-loving-retard with their foreign policy for a few decades now.

I mean how sad is it that a staunch French supremacist like De Gaulle was the last French leader to have somewhat sane views on French foreign relations.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2011 03:02

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Suntory BOSS posted:

Barbary War III: The Barbariest

I think you mean Barbary War 3: Obarbar's Brabrabar.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2011 01:42

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Ok, taking bets now.

$5 says he left for Venezuela.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2011 12:45

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Al-Saqr posted:

Man his son is a complete monster, if he can get a Phd from LSE then surely my chances of going to graduate school there has heightened considerably, probably not though.

Depends. Is your dad a wealthy dictator who the west tries to keep on friendly terms?

# ¿ Feb 21, 2011 14:34

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Petey posted:

Prediction: it will be Facebook/Twitter (as a corporate person)

It's this. This is the Time Person of the Year.

You know, it's funny. The west hasn't really had any people making waves in a good way lately, and you can't make some dastardly brown Person of the Year, I'm curious as to what bullshit-tastic concepts and non-people will be the cop-out stand-ins (like "You." was in 2006 instead of Ahmadinejad) in the future.

Time Person of the Year 2012: Freedom?

# ¿ Feb 21, 2011 16:28

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

THE HORSES rear end posted:

There's a reason we didn't even intervene in Darfur. No matter how well-intentioned, American foreign intervention that involves anything military is tainted.

The only time the US could intervene militarily is if a genocide were breaking out between two different sub-Saharan factions (except Somalia).

Also Rwanda. And Liberia.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2011 20:14

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Uglycat posted:

Really?

I've got a racist neo-con evangelical co-worker who insists that Egypt will be incapable of establishing a true democratic government because 'Egypt has NEVER been a democracy!'

His reasoning is identical to yours.

I love how by these standards no nation ever should have become a democracy. I mean do people like this even think about what the hell they are saying.

Xandu posted:

I don't know why you think France or Italy have any credibility. France has sold weapons to Libya that have been shown to have been used against protesters and has been close with Gaddafi for the past decade for economic reasons. Italy imports a huge amount of Libyan oil and Berlusconi is quite friendly with Gaddafi.

Let's not forget Italy's imperial history in Libya.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2011 23:01

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

If anybody wanted to help, the best solution would probably be routing humanitarian aid to the revolutionaries via Turkey, Egypt and Tunisia.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2011 23:04

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Greyhawk posted:

German news magazine DER SPIEGEL reports Libyan border guards are abandoning their posts according to "the Egyptian armys Facebook account".

Gonna poke them for more info. :colbert:

Also why would they abandon their posts? To help the revolutionaries?

# ¿ Feb 21, 2011 23:39

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Doccers posted:

France isn't part of NATO IIRC, for example.

drat son.

Also you can just not involve the NATO/the US because there's no justification to do so?

The NATO is mostly a defensive treaty, so unless the US doesn't want to join the EU, there's nothing forcing them to do so.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2011 23:51

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Brown Moses posted:

Ban Ki-Moon has said attacks on protesters using aircraft "would constitute a serious violation of international humanitarian law". Hopefully that'll make at least some members of the military think twice before breaking international law.

Yeah Ban Ki, THAT'll show 'em!

God, he has a way of saying nothing of importance with so many words. Seeing him live was rather sobering.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2011 00:53

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Woops.

Anyway, Egypt and Tunisia (possibly Turkey) could intervene.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2011 01:08

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Fragrag posted:

I hope this won't mean a full fledged civil war will erupt. That would tremendously suck.

On a less sensitive not, it does create a nice Tom Clancy novel if Libya's WMDs still existed, if they were ever manufactured that is.

A civil war actually requires two sides.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2011 01:36

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Is he in a dilapidated basement or something?

# ¿ Feb 22, 2011 16:57

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Qaddafi: The Speech

Inspired by "Freddy Got Fingered" by Tom Green.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2011 17:21

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

gradenko_2000 posted:

I feel sorry for the CNN translator. That poor loving guy. He'll never be able to feel clean again.

I think he has started just making poo poo up while he's playing solitaire.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2011 17:27

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Xandu posted:

I wake up and see everyone discussing him speaking and was upset I missed it, but NO, it's still going on.

He's going to break Strom Thurmond's record, this is going to be his magnum opus, a 24+ hour long speech about his bum being on the Swedish.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2011 17:29

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Natalie Portmanteau posted:

I wonder how many people start to set themselves on fire, and when they're on fire they're like "Oh poo poo, this actually hurts like hell" and tries to put themselves out.

That monk in Vietnam seemed pretty cool with being on fire.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2011 23:07

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

wildmamboqueen posted:

Can I ask? Where is Anon on this?

Still in basements throughout the US and Europe?

# ¿ Feb 23, 2011 00:42

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

wildmamboqueen posted:

I really want the basement dwellers to rise up and make a stand. Come on Anon!

They shall rise against the power but sit down 10 seconds later, breathing and wheezing heavily.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2011 00:48

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Toplowtech posted:

Not if you tell them they can also use their navy to stop all those boats full of illegal immigrants sailing toward their coast.

Also tell Silvio he can screw Qaddafi's virgin guard once he's gone.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2011 01:39

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Shoot those assholes down.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2011 17:11

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

A Good Dog posted:

Am I really supposed to feel sorry for the cracker extra-nationals that haven't been able to flee Libya with their pockets full of stolen money?

"Cracker extra-nationals" is like the best term imaginable.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2011 20:07

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Also camping on the lawn of various 5-star hotels throughout Europe and giving 500 Korans to 500 models.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2011 20:50

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

BIG HORNY COW posted:

Maybe that's what the world should do with them - Detain them in a reality show or the Big Brother house so we can all watch them eventually kill one another for our entertainment.

edit: A "Full House" type sitcom with a deposed dictator living with his seven crazy kids to make ends meet sounds like a good show

Man, Gaddafi's got the style to out-ugly Cosby's sweaters.

# ¿ Feb 23, 2011 22:30

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Vladimir Putin posted:

Yes, tanks are worthless in an urban environment without infantry support. It would be impossible for a tank to detect people sneaking up behind it, for example to place explosives in the exhaust/engine compartment.

Out in the open however, in mobilized warfare, however is a different story.

Isn't Libya pretty much a shitton of "HERE THERE BE DRAGONS" with a few heavily urbanized cities along the coast?

# ¿ Feb 24, 2011 00:00

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Vladimir Putin posted:

I guess so, but there aren't going to be huge open field tank battles like in the days of Rommel. If they are going to be blowing up protesters, my guess is that the tanks will be in a highly urban environment.

Yeah that's what I was getting at, if they want to put down the revolution they'll have to go downtown, and a tank will be a slightly worse choice to do that than a Ford Pinto.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2011 00:06

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Yaos posted:

What's going on with Iran? I can't tell the difference between fear-mongering, lies, and reality. Some people think that because Iran sent some ships through the Suez canal that they have won, although I think that has more to do with that small revolution that just took place rather than Egypt wanting to be allies with another dictator so soon. As we've seen in the current revolutions, dictators have a tough time seeing anything, so what Iran says really can't be trusted either.

Facing a goddamn hell of a revolution herself, Iran (or rather the rotten theocrats) need publicity stunts like that to maintain their facade.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2011 01:13

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Apparently things are getting rowdy again in Tahrir Square.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2011 00:40

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Finlander posted:

How rowdy are we talking about, here?

AymanM Ayman Mohyeldin
eyewitnesses telling me that #egyptian army trying to break up peaceful protests in #tahrir, crowds pushed back by "special riot units"

# ¿ Feb 26, 2011 00:49

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Finlander posted:

That's... That's not good.
What does this mean, in practice? If this is true, all the respect for the army the public may have had is completely abolished. There'll probably be more protests, and that might not end well, since they're already dispersing them. Who knows what they might do.

"Special riot units" once again sounds like "not rank and file conscripts" so I'm guessing we'll see Egyptian revolution 2.0 soon enough.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2011 00:58

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Finlander posted:

Hmm, maybe. But, again, that could go badly, maybe even worse than revolution 1.0. I just have a really bad feeling about this.

All things considered, 1.0 went as smoothly and was as non-violent (on the side of the revolutionaries) as any revolution will ever get.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2011 01:02

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Ayman just replied to my Tweet. :allears:

We're burning this motherfucker down guys, hide you Ghaddafi, hide yo mercenaries, hide yo foreign indifference, they revolting against erryone out here.

Btw CNN Turk had an exclusive on-location interview with Ghaddafi's son today, he was every bit as loving idiotic and deranged as you could imagine.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2011 01:15

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

I think the Egyptian military has proven to be a total paper tiger.

They couldn't keep "their boy" Mubarak in power because conscripts would obviously not crush a popular movement, they won't be able to keep themselves in power indefinitely.

Their aura of intimidation is gone. The big, intimidating shadow is just Anakin and not Darth Vader.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2011 01:23

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

IRQ posted:

I don't see why they couldn't wrangle themselves a more or less equal position under a new actually elected government. It's not like there isn't precedent for a cowed populace living under a nominal democracy with a tremendous bloated military industrial complex sucking blood from the economy like an infinitely expanding tick.

Yeah as I said Egypt will most likely be Turkey 2.0 aka another US of the Middle East.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2011 02:17

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Nenonen posted:

Fun fact: if you transliterate Mu'ammar al-Gaddafi enough times from Arabic to Latin and back, eventually you end up with "Hairloon the Porksnout".

Fun fact: If you run Gaddafi's speech through that gibberish translator, it loses none of its original meaning.

Limbo posted:

I have a feeling that bad news isn't being sent up to the top lately; if anyone is nuts enough to take 'shoot the messenger' literally it's Gaddafi.

Yeah at this point I imagine him to be like Nicholson's Joker.

"Jamal, gun."

*gets gun from Jamal*

*shoots Jamal*

"Guys, I'm gonna need a minute here."

# ¿ Feb 27, 2011 14:00

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 10:38

The Brown Menace: Dec 24, 2010; Now comes in all colors.

Also, businessmen feeding Asian and African migrant workers, presumably for free.

Could you imagine what would happen if this were Arizona instead?

# ¿ Feb 27, 2011 18:09

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