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Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Crazy Ted posted:

I just want to get this straight since I've been at work all day...

So Qaddafi claims that Al Qaeda is behind the revolt by spiking Libyan coffee with acid and that Osama Bin Laden is receiving help from the United States?

This is totally incorrect and patently ridiculous - they are in fact being drugged with ecstasy and methamphetamines.

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Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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If I were the rebels I'd rig the important oil infrastructure in Ras Lanuf to blow in case they get driven out again, if they have the equipment for it.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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At least there were no casualties.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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t3ch3 posted:

The authorization order was made weeks ago, before the UNSCR and was just now leaked by someone to the Guardian. I highly doubt it was a purposeful leak from the administration.

And before all the realpolitik pragmatists in the thread jump all over this point, you're incredibly naive if you thought the President would not authorize CIA action in Libya. This is de rigeur for the executive. The only surprising thing is that there wasn't already a blanket authorization on covert actions in Libya.

Yeah, it's technically news but would be more surprising if it wasn't happening.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Your cynicism is deeply inspiring.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Ham posted:

:siren: :monocle: Happy news for Egyptologists everywhere - Zahi Hawass, newly appointed Minister of State for Antiquities Affairs - has been sentenced to one year in prison, removal from his job as minister and a $1800 fine for neglecting to put into effect a court ruling regarding a conflict between his former institution (where he held the title of Chief Archeologist) and a citizen over a piece of land.

That is good news, I was very surprised to hear he had returned to his old haunts after all that had happened.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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I think that's an extremely silly way of looking at it. It's not like Gaddafi wasn't selling us oil to begin with.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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I don't know about that, events seem to be becoming much more serious and I have to expect some sort of international reaction. Doubt it'll come to bombing them, of course.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Gadaffi's sitting back in his bunker going, "drat! I really thought they would go for it this time!"

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Thanks for keeping up with the updates, even if some attention has moved on this stuff is still as important as it was before.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Thanks for doing your best to keep this thread worthwhile and readable.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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We all appreciate your skills at trolling but at this point it might be better for you to recognize that and move on.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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What's happening in Yemen right now is really, really terrible and the consequences could be very bad. Saleh made his bed, but it's both the Yemeni people and the entire world that's going to have to sleep in it.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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If only we could help in Yemen and Syria. I don't mean bombing them, necessarily, but at least in Libya we don't feel completely helpless as people are murdered.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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At least in many ways it's good that what we thought happened didn't actually happen. Still kind of a strange thing to do, though.

Although, terrible things happening to real people is still a reality.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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The only reason we're paying billions in aid to Pakistan is, well, we're already paying billions in aid to them. Personally I consider this a waste of money.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Because either it's facing troubles in towns on those borders or it's going to create trouble on the border in order to create regional instability and a situation where it's more advantageous for Syria to remain controlled by the Assads.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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ThePutty posted:

To me it seems like Gadaffi supporters shot him the same way they shot up the Al Jazeera reporter while he was on the way to the trial. This poo poo isn't good, but I'm hoping that the rebels can pull through and that there's enough commanders to replace Younis and continue the push.

Either that or the supporters of the other guy were convinced that he was still talking with Ghadaffi and things got out of hand.

Earlier in the thread someone quoted Libyan state TV as saying there would be good news w/r/t Younis w/in the week. What if he was planning to sabotage the rebels and defect?

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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When he was in power his illnesses were downplayed or hidden so as to not stoke fears of his passing. Now it's in his benefit to be infirm, hoping for more lenient treatment.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Nuclear Spoon posted:

"Get out". It's already been asked and answered.

There's a difference between Arabic and Hebrew, in case you weren't aware.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Nuclear Spoon posted:

Ugh, I'm a loving idiot. Sorry.

I was a little dickish on my part too, sorry for that.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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They're not talking directly to Gaddafi.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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NYTimes posted:

Israeli forces said they killed seven of the attackers and hours later retaliated further with an airstrike in Gaza. Six Palestinians, several of them members of a militant group, were killed in the strike, according the group’s spokesman and medical officials in Gaza.

That's all that's there right now.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Brown Moses posted:

The centres of Zliten and Zawiyah have both been secured by the rebels in the past few hours.
Here's a report from Zawiyah
and one from Zliten

This is good news, I was getting concerned with the reports of high casualties. Hopefully they've broken through and things will be smoother now.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Golbez posted:

In other words, let Tripoli rot while they consolidate the remainder of the country under one flag. That would seem to be a sound strategy.

If the alternative is a bloody siege, then perhaps it would be. For a time, at least.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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I hope this wasn't too hasty on the part of those inside Tripoli.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Everyone's afraid, man. It's the human condition.

Some are afraid with more reason, though.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Gadahffi can go suck an egg.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Oh jeez, no place for us here! Better skedaddle!

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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The sooner Berlusconi and everything affiliated with him is out of power the better. It's almost unbelievable that he and his companies have lasted so long but hopefully he's nearing the end of his influence.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Even if it wasn't subtle, if it was him then he got away with it.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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I'm surprised there aren't any posts about Yemen (lord knows I'm underqualified), but today over 50 protesters have been killed, many hundreds wounded, and the protesters together with defected army members claim to have seized a army base.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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LYE-OONS posted:

So it looks like Yemen is going to go the armed rebellion route. Too bad that the government let it get this far out of hand, they should have looked to Egypt and Libya to see that dictators cannot just ride out popular discord anymore. This does bring up the question of how far Saudi Arabia will go to keep this from happening, though.

So far the protesters themselves still claim to be nonviolent, and the seizure of the base was without bloodshed (the regime soldiers ran away - the defected army members with the protesters were armed but apparently didn't fire). But the gist of what I'm getting from recent news is that the recent bloodshed is pushing the demonstrators as a whole to be more amenable to arming themselves. Considering the blood they've shed without the kind of reaction and protection they expected from the international community, it's not hard to imagine why. And the defected army units are a whole different matter.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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After New Pledge to Leave, Signs of Yemeni President’s Resolve to Linger

quote:

CAIRO — Amid all the chaos and conflict that have engulfed Yemen, one fact seems immutable: President Ali Abdullah Saleh will not voluntarily leave office any time soon.

The vaguely worded pledge he issued Saturday to step aside appeared, a day later, to be just another feint. While he had seemed to be moving toward accepting a plan initially proposed in the spring by the Gulf Cooperation Council to cede power to a transitional government, two high-ranking Yemeni officials said Sunday that the country’s foreign minister had traveled to the United Arab Emirates to offer the council a new plan. This one, they said, calls for Mr. Saleh to remain in office until elections next year.

I, for one, am shocked. Shocked.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Brown Moses posted:

Peter said the incident exposed the lack of coordination between fighters from Benghazi on the eastern side of Sirte, and the Misratan forces pushing forward from the south.

Stuff like this is terrible but makes me really, really glad the toppling of Tripoli didn't happen the way everyone expected.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Fog of war, man.

Honestly better that way than being strung up like Saddam. What an embarrassing shitshow that was.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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I haven't seen this posted yet, so I wanted to bring it up:

"Trial of Americans in Egypt Shakes Ties Between Nations posted:

Egypt will begin criminal proceedings on Friday against 19 Americans and two dozen others in a politically charged investigation into the foreign financing of nonprofit groups that has plunged relations between the United States and Egypt to their lowest point in three decades, state news media reported Saturday.
...
The revolution surprised the United States and “slipped from its control,” [Fayza Abul Naga, the minister of cooperation] said. The United States responded by using “all its resources and instruments to contain the situation and push it in a direction that promotes American and also Israeli interests.”

And from an Op-ed:

"Empty Talk on Tahrir Square posted:

The military, [Mohamed Elbaradei] said, had assumed control of Egypt “as if no revolution had taken place and no regime had fallen.” And he may be right.
...
Once again, I was told, Egyptians are starting to look over their shoulder to see who might be listening, to be careful what they say on the phone, to begin considering all over again who they can and cannot trust.

“The intelligence services are extremely active,” says a well-known commentator.
...
For now, though, the share-out of spoils from last year’s revolt is more or less complete. Real power has gone back to the military; a Parliament of new faces gets to do the talking; a president is due to be elected later this year.

The only people who don’t seem to know that this uprising is over still argue and dream and make speeches in Tahrir Square.

This is beyond frustrating. Obviously, the military government is trying to convince the broad masses that whatever problems they are currently experiencing are due to American meddling and not their own blatant failings at governance and proceeding along the agreed-upon path towards a democratically elected civilian government. Beyond the foremost irony of the recipients of $1.5 billion accusing others of being supported by Americans, it's deeply disappointing that the choice they have made is clear: blame the outsiders, retrench, hold on to power and refuse to make the real structural changes needed to fulfill the goals of the revolution. Holding our aid hostage against the review of their peace treaty with Israel is... well, it's hard not to feel insulted. I'm tempted to say we should just call their bluff but I'm not the one who has to deal with the consequences.

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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Chortles posted:

It makes way more sense if you view Mubarak's ouster as SCAF sacrificing their "figurehead" to preserve their junta and them never having been for the revolution to begin with.

I don't think many people ever thought the military was for the revolution per se, but there used to be the hope that they would go along with it for the best interests of the country.

Why does realism always win...

Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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It's very strange that there isn't an Afghanistan thread to be found anywhere on SA. Especially considering how critical it is to any number of other topics that do have active threads in other forums.

My immediate feelings are that the offending soldier/s should be publicly executed in the town in which they murdered at least 16 innocent civilians. There is no excuse, none at all, for what they did. And they should be worse off than if they did their crime in Texas, where at least it would be painless.

I know that this won't happen, but it's the only thing that would in some degree mitigate their crimes. We really are screwed in Afghanistan. Too bad we had to waste so much time and money before we realized the Army didn't have any clue what its capabilities were.

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Mozi
Apr 4, 2004

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FlamingLiberal posted:

I'm sure someone in the Pentagon tomorrow will be downplaying this like crazy, despite the fact that according to them everything has been going great over there with the training. Plus I believe Obama is still claiming that we are sticking in there until sometime in 2014. The whole situation is stupid.

I wouldn't view 2014 as a time we're sticking there until, it's more like we 2014 is the soonest we could get out. We have a lot of people and things there and it takes a long time to move everything, not to mention the need to try to avoid a complete vacuum of power. Everybody wants out, ASAP. And while the Pentagon might downplay the green-on-blue incidents they are probably going nuts internally trying to figure out how the hell the pull-out plan is going to work when the ANA and police have proven to be completely unreliable (as one might have predicted years ago). These people basically WERE the pull-out plan, and it turns out we've basically given guns and power to a bunch of power-hungry men who probably have very different ideas about how to use that power than we do. Deja vu is here again.

Personally I think we are going to throw up our hands and just leave as fast as we can, and things will get very very bad over there afterwards. But at this point there's simply nothing we can do to make it better.

Mozi fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Sep 18, 2012

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