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Apology posted:Sorry for the double post, y'all, but this is an entirely new protest that I hadn't heard of, the Ivory Coast in Africa: The election was in November and the protests/standoff started soon after. edit: Ah, protests against the sanctions. That makes sense.
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Feb 18, 2011 00:08
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AA is for Quitters posted:But really, I don't care that I'll never get the chance to participate in something like this. What I care about is how little coverage this is getting in the US. I mentioned what was going on at work, and everyone just went "wat?". It's not getting mentioned in their schools, it's not getting mentioned on the news, it's not getting mentioned period beyond a little footnote, or page filler in the middle of the paper. It's been a front page story in the NYT every day for over a week. Top US reporters (Anderson Cooper, Katie Couric, Nick Kristof, etc) have all been reporting on it. Some people just don't pay attention to the rest of the world.
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Feb 18, 2011 01:25
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Ashmole posted:ياللا بينا يا الشام It's started today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDHLsU-ik_Y
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Feb 18, 2011 01:29
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I'm sure this veto will endear us to the new Arab democracies....
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Feb 18, 2011 23:37
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By the way, yesterday was the 2 month anniversary Mohamed Bouazizi immolating himself in Tunisia.
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Feb 19, 2011 01:13
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I added a bunch of pictures and videos in the D&D thread, Here's the post. This video especially is worth watching. Very graphic at end, clash between protesters and army in al-Badya, Libya.  https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=103475683065662&oid=179449562095105&comments edit: very very graphic, a guy gets his head shot off. Xandu fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Feb 19, 2011 |
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Feb 19, 2011 04:50
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Apology posted:
A bit simplistic... Not entirely wrong, but painting it in solely sectarian terms misses the point.
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Feb 19, 2011 09:31
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A captured, well I'm not exactly sure, some sort of "anti-tank" weapon, in al-Bayda, Libya. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz2ZkHP1s-I
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Feb 19, 2011 19:30
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Paradox Personified posted:I'll wait until youtube gets this, I don't have a facebook account. Here you go, but again, it's pretty awful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkDcrb-EwbM
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Feb 19, 2011 20:01
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The US doesn't sell arms to Libya, the UK on the other hand, does. I'm pretty sure the footage is from Libya, but it can't be confirmed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8z7RKkxqY0 Video of gunmen shooting at protesters in Sana'a, Yemen. Reporting indicates that these are tribesmen that support Saleh (in exchange for payment sometimes, but tribal relations are complicated). Two injured.
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Feb 19, 2011 21:14
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tetsul posted:I can't believe they would change a sign that says this to instead say that. They would never say anything like that. They strongly are in favor of this. I can't figure out what سامية means in the first one, but I"m pretty sure the bottom one (which is presumably the photoshopped one) says "No treacherous Arab will remain alive in Iran"
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Feb 20, 2011 00:58
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Oh that makes so much more sense. "Our peaceful movement demands legitimacy." edit: \/\\/\/ even better Xandu fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Feb 20, 2011 |
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Feb 20, 2011 01:09
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Apology posted:
Even the King and Crown Prince admit it was disproportionate and claim that it will be investigated. This guy is ridiculous.
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Feb 20, 2011 01:47
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Thanks for the corrections, my Arabic's not great.Samurai Sanders posted:Oh right, they are going to "investigate" lies by one of their government officials who is probably like seven of them's brother or something? Of course not, but my point is this guy isn't even on message.
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Feb 20, 2011 02:02
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http://audioboo.fm/boos/282959-englishtrans-lpc-benghazi-man-muammar-s-special-forces-are-executing-doctors-libya-feb17 Call with man from Benghazi, with english translation.
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Feb 20, 2011 02:57
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Apology posted:Of everything we've seen and heard so far, shooting doctors and using antiaircraft weapons against human beings has to be the most despicable. Burn in hell, Gaddhafi. BURN. IN. HELL. The Jan25voices/feb17voices is a really interesting and important thing to come out of this. Being able to listen to regular people is hugely helpful. For all the talk of citizen journalism, this is one of the better examples. Warbadger posted:Because Chadian forces used M40 recoilless rifles against the Libyans (look up the Toyota War). So under the assumption that is in Libya (it may very well not be), that would be the most likely place Libyans got one. You guys are talking about two different videos. The first was of a recoilless rifle in Libya and the second was of a protest in Yemen.
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Feb 20, 2011 03:24
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A peaceful video from Libya, finally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqhCQri7CCw This is the Green Book building on fire in Benghazi. The Green Book is Ghaddafi's book on political philosophy.
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Feb 20, 2011 05:20
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Some really good pictures from Benghazi http://www.flickr.com/photos/a7fadhomar/ 
Xandu fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Feb 20, 2011 |
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Feb 20, 2011 19:54
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Apology posted:And in Morocco, the Hamburglar was shot and killed: 
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Feb 20, 2011 20:21
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Apology posted:Now why does this sound so familiar? The difference is that he probably won't be able to flee. I'm having trouble thinking of who would accept him.
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Feb 20, 2011 20:27
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quote:Some of African countries with very corrupt leaderships might take him. Mauritania, maybe? I don't really know. Yeah that seems the most plausible to me, but I don't know which ones in particular. He's made a lot of enemies over the years and after this massacre, most countries will consider him untouchable.
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Feb 20, 2011 20:41
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Democrazy posted:Has the situation in Libya really gone past the tipping point? Gaddafi can still win this. I think it has. He can't win it without killing everybody. It's not confined to one city like it was in the beginning, he's starting to lose his base of tribal support, the fact that he's bringing in mercenaries means he can't rely on the army (some divisions are totally loyal to him, like the one commanded by his son, but not all). I can easily see him continuing to massacre people over the next week, but I don't see a way out of this for him.
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Feb 20, 2011 20:49
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Nenonen posted:
I'm aware of what happened in Hama. Some differences 1. The uprising in Hama was largely Islamist and confined to the area. Here it's spread throughout the country and has a wider base of support. There's a huge size difference between the protests as well, tons of people have come out in Libya. 2. The Syrian stranglehold over the media meant that nobody in rest of the country knew what was happening till it was over and even then, the official version of what happened was far from reality. Nowadays, video from Benghazi is on CNN and al-Jazeera and facebook) and quickly spread around the country. Gaddafi can't hide the truth from his own people. 3. The Syrian Defence Companies that went into Hama were comprised solely of Alawites (minority group that is in power) utterly loyal to the end. Here we have mercenaries and al-Jazeera just reported that they confirmed members of the army have already split from Gaddafi's forces in Benghazi. In addition, tribal groups that usually support Gaddafi have come out against him. He's starting to lose his support network.
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Feb 20, 2011 21:23
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Nonsense posted:Tripoli is still rather quiet, as Gudaffi has his supporters are out constantly on the streets crushing any dissent, if this protest is to succeed, this must spread there. Much quieter, but things are happening in Tripoli. Caller on AJE says 2000-3000 gathered to march towards the Garden Square while burning pictures of Gaddafi. No army presence, protesters have blocked things off. I've also heard reports of gunfire and mercenaries in Tripoli.
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Feb 20, 2011 21:27
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Videos from Misrata, appears to be a funeral procession/protest. https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150101657233094&oid=197898230226131 https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150101654198094&oid=197898230226131 edit: Also in Misrata, tearing down of that ridiculous green book symbol. https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150101650728094&oid=197898230226131
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Feb 20, 2011 22:00
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sweeptheleg posted:If anyone wants to hate on some celebrities I was surprised to find out gaddafi ships them over every now and then on his peoples dime. Academics as well http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/01/18/the_shores_of_tripoli quote:I was invited to give a lecture to its Economic Development Board, following in the footsteps of a number of other recent American visitors, including Frank Fukuyama, Bernard Lewis, Joseph Nye, Robert Putnam, Anne-Marie Slaughter, and Richard Perle (!).
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Feb 20, 2011 22:52
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Brown Moses posted:From the AJE Live Blog: I won't post them because it's just gratuitous violence, but in some of the videos of captured mercenaries that are floating around, they're basically being dragged through the streets bloodied and beaten.
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Feb 20, 2011 23:04
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farraday posted:Violent revolution is never pretty, but at this point it's hard to see how Qaddafi secures power if his mercenary forces just got crushed. quote:Khamis al-Qadhafi's 32nd Brigade is one of the main regime protection forces. The 'Khamis Brigade' is considered by U.S. diplomats as the most capable of defending the regime But it wouldn't be enough at this point I'd imagine.
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Feb 20, 2011 23:13
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Well given how lovely their current flag is.... Seriously though, there's also been a lot of mentioning of Omar Mukhtar, an old hero of Libyan independence.
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Feb 20, 2011 23:44
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QuentinCompson posted:Yes, and while we're at it, why don't you start talking about how they're savages who can't govern themselves? I was sort of hoping he was taking quadratic's statement to the extreme to prove a point.
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Feb 21, 2011 01:10
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Brown Moses posted:I heard that claimed a few times on AJE, but it's difficult to confirm anything at the moment. They were translating a message from a tribal leader, so I'd treat it as confirmed.
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Feb 21, 2011 01:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JosiAgoiWow Weapon used against protesters in Benghazi.
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Feb 21, 2011 04:07
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Don't feel like wading into this, but the reality is complicated. People in the US care a lot about saving face as well; there certainly are differences between the American and Arab culture, but it's a mistake to generalize millions of people and it's easy to take the idea of "arabs care about honor" too far and become orientalist if you don't acknowledge that culture is flexible and not everyone embodies their culture.Xandu posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JosiAgoiWow This appears to be an FN303 less-lethal projectile launcher. France sold 1500 to Libya in 2008.
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Feb 21, 2011 04:23
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Jut posted:twitter is reporting more fighting in Green Square...AJE is showing some dude cooking :s http://audioboo.fm/boos/283786-english-lpc-eyewitness-aircraft-machine-gun-used-on-demonstrators-in-greensquare-libya-tripoli-feb17 "after that mr. saif al islami talking on the news..only like 15 to 20 minutes later then we saw the cars of the 4x4s coming with a lot of soldiers who I could not distinguish if the soldiers were African or Libyans but they started shooting immediately. I saw 2 people were shot one of them in the head like 2 meters away from me and then we had to leave and we left the square. I saw even from the machine guns that they were using one machine gun that was mounted over a truck that is used to fight aircrafts. That was used against the demonstators. After that we just pulled out. After that, it's like an hour later, I can still hear the gunshots in the square to this moment."
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Feb 21, 2011 04:52
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The-Mole posted:Which belies the real point: the only way to criticize a Middle Easterner is to sandwich it between two compliments. I just got back from living in Beirut (whose culture is relatively distinct from the rest of the Arab world I feel) and have spent some time in Morocco. I do understand what you're saying, but the original comment was Rotacixe posted:There is a cultural thing which makes accepting responsibility virtually impossible. Which is nonsensical and completely unfair, I'd hope you agree. There's nothing intrinsic to Arab culture that makes them unable to accept responsibility and when applied to Arab leaders not accepting responsibility for massacres, they have completely rational reasons for not wanting to do so that have nothing to do with culture. It's like the whole idea that Arabs only know how to deal with force or a "strong horse". It's these sort of dry stereotypes that paint cultures as monolithic and "other" that I was responded to and that's how I interpret Rotacixe's comment. And a lot of expats are just as guilty of viewing locals incorrectly (there's a very weird trend of viewing them as inferior), so I generally take these claims about Arab culture with a grain of salt unless I have reason to believe otherwise. But your point is fair. You mention sexism and it's a huge problem. Lots of my female friends, especially in Egypt, are constantly harassed and even when women are treated respectfully, they're still treated differently. But of course, there are lots of local Arab groups working to combat that and change perceptions and not every Arab man is sexist. Honor matters too and I don't have a lot to add to what you said, but it's dangerous to extrapolate that and view people's decisions (especially when it comes to politics or foreign policy) as extensions of that. Take Afghanistan for example, lots of American officers and "experts" point to Pashtunwali to explain how Afghan "tribal" people act and should be "dealt with." edit: forgot a line: The reality is that Afghans, like Arabs and Americans and everybody else, are people that act out of self-interest and emotion and culture can be put aside if it goes against people's self interest. Meanwhile, in Algeria, the secret service has told Bouteflika that he must urgently reform if he wants to survive. I think they're scared of Libya. http://www.tsa-algerie.com/politique/les-services-secrets-conseillent-a-bouteflika-d-engager-en-urgence-des-reformes_14392.html posted:Algerian secret services have advised President Bouteflika to initiate urgent reforms to contain the social anger, as the contents of a report recently presented to the Head of State and revealed this Sunday, February 20 by the website of the chain Qatari Al Jazeera. This report was prepared at the request of Bouteflika himself to understand the reasons for the riots that marked the country in early January 2011 and the protests that shook several sectors (health, justice, local, etc.).. Xandu fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Feb 21, 2011 |
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Feb 21, 2011 05:58
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Samurai Sanders posted:I must have missed it, but was there some one event that put all this in motion? Something that happened in Egypt two weeks ago or so that was the straw that broke the camel's back? The OP is actually pretty good, albeit out of order. But yeah, there were longstanding problems in all of these countries and the success of Tunisia helped to inspire people in other countries to rise up.
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Feb 21, 2011 08:09
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Samurai Sanders posted:I was just curious why it happened exactly when it did. Did the government announce some new policy that finally pushed people over the edge? In Tunisia? Not exactly. The economic downturn had made unemployment a lot worse and raised the price of food, which was important. There was a rather brutal crackdown in Sidi Bouzid after residents protested after Bouazizi's death, and that prompted protests around the country, and the authorities cracked down on those, and it spun out of control over the course of about a month.
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Feb 21, 2011 08:28
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I think he mentioned Israel (along with the US, Europe, and everybody else) when he was talking about foreign interference and potential invaders, but I can't find a transcript.
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Feb 21, 2011 08:33
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It's semi-independent of the Arab world. The secession of South Sudan has put a lot of pressure on Bashir. But 2015 is a long way away, who knows what he'll actually end up doing. Saleh (Yemen) said the same thing a week or two ago, but nobody believes him.
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Feb 21, 2011 09:42
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Interim Egyptian cabinet has leaked, to be announced within 24 hours. Some look good, lots of bad, the full link has more comments.http://egyptianchronicles.blogspot.com/2011/02/new-interim-cabinet.html posted:
A lot of big ministry positions (Foreign affairs, interior, finance) are apparently not being changed. Reuters has also reported an imminent cabinet shuffle, though they didn't give any names, so this seems plausible. edit: The P.S. seemed to go without saying if this cabinet formation is true. Xandu fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Feb 21, 2011 |
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Feb 21, 2011 10:22
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