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Rasler posted:
Yup he pretty much had great success in shedding his black sheep status and helping EU countries overlook his true nature. Especially getting energy deals with countries such as Italy and also quitting his WMD program. But the Arab spring introduced a bad surprise and uncontrollable element into the picture especially since it caught the west flatfooted.
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Oct 20, 2011 21:43
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Winkle-Daddy posted:To be fair, does is surprise anyone that NATO would support dictator stability vs democratic unpredictability? I mean, yeah that sucks that he was able to play the game so long, but that's what happens when a section of the planet gets labeled as a "powder keg." Well the US policy especially has been pretty much "The devil we know" Killer robot posted:While it's always impossible to be sure, I'd say it's more likely that NATO is the reason the rebellion wasn't swiftly crushed, given what the momentum was before airstrikes started. NATO involvement was the turning point since it allowed the rebels to take away the opposing conventional forces really quick such as scaring off the navy, trashing supply depots plus being able to quickly trash threats such as heavy armor units. Not to mention all the additional benefits such as access to high quality intelligence info to help the rebels plan attacks better. etalian fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Oct 20, 2011 |
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Oct 20, 2011 22:09
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What will become of the sexy Amazon bodyguard brigade?
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Oct 20, 2011 22:17
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Two Plus Four posted:Before NATO removed the air threat, Gadaffi's forces were actually winning the war. The rebels were not making any progress if I read correctly in the news articles. Yup and they were really hurting for lack of heavy conventional forces, NATO involvement basically removed the ruling power's main advantage over the rebels.
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Oct 20, 2011 23:07
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Brown Moses posted:Here's the frontpages in the UK for tomorrow Thank god that there will be a page three girl to help people to get over all the gruesome pictures.
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Oct 20, 2011 23:15
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gallery of post-mortem Muammar and Moatassim Gaddafi photos
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Brown Moses posted:
And to add insult to injury getting picture tagged on Facebook without his consent.
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Oct 20, 2011 23:20
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Two Plus Four posted:Seeing those people so excited is all great and all but I recall how happy the Iraqis were when we "won" the Iraq war and wondered how happy they were when the different factions were fighting for supremacy after. From what I read, there are many factions in the rebel groups and not one will likely give up the want to be in charge. This is just the beginning of a full-on rebel war that will likely find those joyous individuals dead from bullet holes. Might as well have maintained the status quo instead of going into scary unknown territory. If there's any chance a revolution against a brutal leader will have a painful recovery process it should even be attempted.
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Oct 20, 2011 23:28
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grumperfish posted:My boss is Israeli, so he didn't exactly share my enthusiasm when were talking about Gaddafi today. He's definitely pro-status quo. I tried to argue that security based on one man being able to strong-arm an entire population isn't really security (see: Egypt), but he wasn't having it. It more because dicks such Mubarak made political agreements with Israel and once a revolution takes over there's no guarantee that past agreements will fly with the new populist government.
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Oct 21, 2011 00:24
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Casimir Radon posted:If any of you whiners had ever experienced anything of the sort that the rebels have all of your life, I'm not confident that you wouldn't be tempted to shoot that very evil man in the face. Yup he pretty much deserved the Mussolini treatment.
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Oct 21, 2011 01:09
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Young Freud posted:I have to wonder if that was accidental, if they were under orders, or they just got sick of him and switched sides at the last minute. Well it would be a convincing way to show you switched sides.
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Oct 21, 2011 01:30
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Sulla-Marius 88 posted:I hope the arab spring crosses over to the western world and they overthrow dictators operating under the guise of democracy and capitalism. It already has, Occupy Wall Street was pretty much inspired by the "Yes we can" and success against all odds.
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Oct 21, 2011 02:06
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At least the quick justice saved the world from Ghaddafi going into exile and using his billions of dollars in stolen money to become a world famous fashion designer.
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Oct 21, 2011 04:02
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Fiend posted:Smells like a sitcom vehicle for Carlos Mencia where he plays each member of an overweight family. It' Always Sunny at the French Riviera
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Oct 21, 2011 04:25
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RobattoJesus posted:Sure it's a state apparatus, but so are schools (not to be confused with ideological state apparatus, which are the bad ones). It's also not directly funded by the government and instead by a "subscription" that every Briton with a TV must pay. Sure the government has occasionally stepped in to control the BBC, but almost always through the courts with super injunctions and whatnot, not with the clandestine influence of government lizard people (unlesssss..... And certainly better overall than your standard lovely media conglomerate. Al-Saqr posted:Meanwhile in Bahrain, A heart-wrenching Audio account of a medical professor describing her imprisonment and torture. And Bahrain gets extra dick points for arresting hospital staff for the crime of treating badly injured protesters.
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Oct 21, 2011 20:19
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J.theYellow posted:
They paid the price for starting a revolution against all odds, against a bloodthirsty leader who managed to cleverly hoodwink the West into thinking he had changed his ways. A pathetic, unheroic death is exactly what Gaddafi's deserved after destroying thousands of lives along with ordering the rape and torture of numerous unarmed civilians. It's the perfect warning for cruel leaders who think they can rule forever and never have to face the consequences of their actions. The only tragedy is with him gone there's no one else qualified to pass on the important knowledge and techniques of Bunga Bunga to the leaders of the world.
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Oct 21, 2011 21:03
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Stoatbringer posted:The way he's been treating the people for the last 40 years, it should really come as no surprise. And his house got the same humiliation treatment too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp0jCYACu8A
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Oct 21, 2011 22:22
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Brown Moses posted:I'm loving loving the reaction of the pro-Gaddafi sites at the moment, like this video from AfriSynergy: Amazing powerpoint animations can easily hide obvious truths.
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Oct 21, 2011 22:31
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Brown Moses posted:Libya SOS is taking it hard: Also so jealous over the rebels having a successful sexy night party: http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/10/shame-shamelessness-sexy-dinner-in.html
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Oct 21, 2011 22:38
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Eschers Basement posted:Also, I'm loving the D&D invasion of this thread. "It doesn't matter how many people Gaddhafi had killed or tortured to stay in power for over forty years - he improved Libya's health care, and thus must be mourned and treated with proper and due respect." The improvements and infrastructure were a classic case of divide and conquer. He only put money into places close to his power base while neglecting a majority of the country. Not to mention skimming billions of dollars every year to go on spending sprees along with his rotten progeny while a majority of his country suffered. closeted republican posted:Russians are hardcore nationalists that put the USA to shame in terms of whiny and aggressive nationalism. Basically, imagine if a good-sized majority of Americans were Tea Baggers. That's Russians. Especially since Russia under Putin is basically trying to return to the gold old flag waving and cult of personality days with a few twists. Such as pursuing a scorched earth buyout policy against a liberal broadcasting station just because the satirical Russian puppet Kukly had the balls to included a Putin dwarf puppet. etalian fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Oct 22, 2011 |
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Oct 22, 2011 00:44
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grumperfish posted:A family friend who works for a local production company was whining that they weren't going to get to do a regular show in Barbados this year. I asked him why not, and he said it's usually a Gaddafi event I guess that gig is dead on arrival now.
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Oct 22, 2011 01:46
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. Yeah, I don't think that's happening this time around.
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OwlBot 2000 posted:The Kazakhs that I've met seem to think he's great, though. "Strong leader", etc. Makes sense seeing how every Central Asian break-away country basically maintained the cult of personality, censorship and other Soviet goodies.
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Oct 22, 2011 01:58
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J.theYellow posted:I know they're Muslim and probably don't do things like go on drunken benders, but someday these people are going to wake up to what they did, and it's not going to feel good. Yes I'm sure they will have nightmares about giving a leader responsible for so much pain and suffering over the course of a 42 year iron hand rule a humiliating, pathetic end.
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Oct 22, 2011 02:23
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Bert Fegg posted:At the end he's just a powerless, frightened old man - you'd have to be inhuman not to feel a touch of something at that. Still doesn't alter the fact that he entirely deserved his end for causing so much unnecessary death. How can you feel empathy for someone who never had empathy or care for others? For someone who pretty much captures the worst more disturbing aspects of human nature.
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Oct 22, 2011 03:18
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At least everyone can agree that a sexy Amazon bodyguard is more compelling than a dull Secret Service.
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Oct 22, 2011 03:32
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Paradox Personified posted:Needs more naked Rachael Ray. Not sure the mural wall would be big enough for that addition
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Oct 22, 2011 03:49
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Rosscifer posted:Gaddafi update: http://gizmodo.com/5852109/holy-crap-qaddafis-corpse-is-being-stored-in-a-freezer-at-a-mall He's right next to the Forever 21 right now.
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Oct 22, 2011 05:59
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Brown Moses posted:Early on in the conflict some squatters got inside one of his sons luxury homes in London, and his other sons got into plenty of trouble in other countries, which was generally brushed under the carpet by friendly governments. Especially Switzerland after they had the gall to go after one his idiot sons after he badly beat up two hotel staff.
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Oct 22, 2011 14:31
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Brown Moses posted:The New York Times has a piece on the last days of Gaddafi Almost a Hitler-esque sort of madness end with believing he could somehow hold stronghold against a large number of determined numerically superior attackers plus being irrational to the bitter end such as not negotiating a settlement or at least a exile package after handing over all the stolen goods while he still was in a position of strength.
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Oct 22, 2011 21:33
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Cable Guy posted:"I am the Well-spring from which you flow. Should we feel sorry for sad, defenseless Thusla Doom being brutally killed by Conan?
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Oct 23, 2011 03:03
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Cable Guy posted:Yes... He was a totally benign ruler who brought education, peace and the resource of steel to a troubled land... Not to mention health care reform. The turning into a big snake ability might have made the Gadhafi drain hideout plan much more successful.
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Oct 23, 2011 04:06
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The-Mole posted:Mathaba is closer to Christwire-level satire than the Onion. I liked the article best on how Gaddafi didn't steal things or live in especially ridiculous luxury: http://mathaba.net/news/?x=629062 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJURNC0e6Ek
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Oct 23, 2011 06:25
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ThePutty posted:I hope these elections go well for Tunisia. They might just start yet another wave across the Arab world if people see that democracy can and will work in a post-Conflict state. And shut up people who believed maintaining the murderous, future without hope status quo was the best option.
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Oct 23, 2011 16:26
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Nombres posted:Well, that's the rub, isn't it? Even if by sane standards Tunisia's elections are wildly successful, there's always going to be some minor party [read: five guys in a basement] that cries foul, or some Islamist unrest, or this or that, that gives people who just want to discount the entire process an out. Well hopefully the whole system of parliament will keep the crazier parties at bay with enough centrist/left group and the crazier parties are content with being able to power share. The other painful challenges will be reviving shattered economy, trying to upgrade infrastructure and other quality of life improvements over pre-revolution life. Basically the challenge of making a modern nation state especially in Libya where tribalism and divide and conquer was pretty much encouraged by Gaddafi. At least for Libya they can use dear leader's nest eggs plus getting other now unfrozen assets to help with the rebuild process.
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Oct 23, 2011 16:50
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Nice Pic of his famous Rice stalker pic album:
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Oct 23, 2011 23:14
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And if he at least had showed some respect for rebels instead of calling them rats and not ramped up the brutality even more in attempting to crush the uprising then his chance of surviving would have been much better. If you don't show mercy or humanity to your opponents don't expect it in return.
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Oct 24, 2011 01:09
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Ardennes posted:When all is said and done, Gaddafi did implement a remarkable safety net, it is actually when he started to push for liberalization that things went haywire as unemployment soared. No he pretty much pursued the standard divide and conquer policy, people close his his tribe got reward while most of the country withered. For the military he had similar divide and conquer with some areas getting newer equipment while other less loyal,close areas being hardly better than militia. It's delusional to believe he was anything close to a benevolent dictator even for economic policy, it was just the class divide and conquer with the eastern areas getting dicked over the most.
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Oct 24, 2011 04:14
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Casimir Radon posted:Kim Jung-Il facts 4. Can pee into the wind and not get wet
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Oct 24, 2011 04:22
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Ardennes posted:Did people revolt against him because of him being a dictator or him implementing liberal economic policies that raised unemployment to high levels? A combination of both similar to all the other Arab Spring uprisings.
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Oct 24, 2011 04:46
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Ardennes posted:There has been a lot of put downs in this thread against people asking similar questions, and it really hasn't been answered. Why Gaddafi but not Saleh? Probably because Libya was more compelling for intervention especially when the rebels reached their breaking point and Gaddafi suddenly becoming very vulnerable. Also being a grassroots movement helped for Libya, while a good amount of break-away groups in Yemen are getting helped out by bad bad Iran. So Libya got the help since it provided a change of heart opportunity to get rid of a crazy leader without any need for more direct dirty involvement, Iraq train wreck nation building or loss of life on US side. Yemen on the other presented a more complex situation.
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Oct 24, 2011 05:05
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1337JiveTurkey posted:
Yeah Gaddafi was willing to do anything to shed the pariah state status with the West and it's not surprising that he was willing to hop onboard with the Bush war on terror to score some goodie points.
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Oct 25, 2011 03:03
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