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ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

What do these people watch?

probably disney and marvel ips

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Class Warcraft
Apr 27, 2006




I showed about 10 minutes of Master & Commander to my students a couple years ago to show them what age-of-sail life was like as part some unit or another and enough kids were interested in finishing the movie on their own that eventually I wrote the movie name on the board so they could look it up later.

Kylaer
Aug 3, 2007


So, what kind of ranges would naval cannons of the Napoleonic era be effective at? I know some of the battles were fought yardarm-to-yardarm but Jack emphasizes quick, accurate "long-range" gunnery when training his crews, but in all the books I never really got a sense of what kind of range is being described. I know theoretically a cannonball can travel quite far, but what would a realistic maximum effective range be? 200 yards? 500 yards?

PlushCow
Oct 19, 2005

The cow eats the grass



If there's a boring part of the movie it's the doldrums, which maybe should be slow and boring.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.


Kylaer posted:

So, what kind of ranges would naval cannons of the Napoleonic era be effective at? I know some of the battles were fought yardarm-to-yardarm but Jack emphasizes quick, accurate "long-range" gunnery when training his crews, but in all the books I never really got a sense of what kind of range is being described. I know theoretically a cannonball can travel quite far, but what would a realistic maximum effective range be? 200 yards? 500 yards?

The long nine and other smaller shot could be fired over 1000 yards, but at that distance accuracy and how much damage it would do would be a problem. Effective range most of the time would be 100-200 yards, but that will vary wildly based on what shot you're using, what ships are being targeted, weather, etc. Usual engagement distances were pretty close.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

AUSTRALIA
NEEDS
TURNBULL


Reading through the series for the first time and just finished Nutmeg of Consolation, and I'm curious about something - don't answer this if it's answered in Stephen's thoughts or journals in the next novel, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's not. After Stephen has arranged the rendezvous with Padeen and then Jack rejects the notion of helping him abscond, Stephen asks Martin to give some possession of his to his Diana - implying he may never see her again - and tells the boat crew that Martin will be returning, conspicuously not mentioning himself. What exactly was he planning to do? Take off with Padeen and go live with the United Irishmen who are mentioned as having escaped into the bush near Newcastle?

edit - I'll add that I made it this deep into the series (which I love and admire immensely) before finally bothering to google and learn that "the weather gauge" does not relate to a barometer and "heaving the log" does not mean chucking your documents overboard because you expect you're about to be captured

freebooter fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Feb 11, 2021

thekeeshman
Feb 21, 2007


I don't think it's ever spelled out, but my guess would be he would leave the ship and plan some scheme of his own to get Padeen out of Australia. I don't think he intended to stay in the bush, since he knew he had the connections to get Padeen a pardon eventually, but if he left him there he would be dead before too much longer.

Genghis Cohen
Jun 29, 2013


freebooter posted:

Reading through the series for the first time and just finished Nutmeg of Consolation, and I'm curious about something - don't answer this if it's answered in Stephen's thoughts or journals in the next novel, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's not. After Stephen has arranged the rendezvous with Padeen and then Jack rejects the notion of helping him abscond, Stephen asks Martin to give some possession of his to his Diana - implying he may never see her again - and tells the boat crew that Martin will be returning, conspicuously not mentioning himself. What exactly was he planning to do? Take off with Padeen and go live with the United Irishmen who are mentioned as having escaped into the bush near Newcastle?

edit - I'll add that I made it this deep into the series (which I love and admire immensely) before finally bothering to google and learn that "the weather gauge" does not relate to a barometer and "heaving the log" does not mean chucking your documents overboard because you expect you're about to be captured

I'd assumed that having been refused help by Jack, he was just intending to find some other way off Australia with Padeen. I can't imagine he intended to stay in the area permanently - apart from anything else, I think it's mentioned the United Irishman might regard him as a traitor or informant, because of his employment by the British Government. Honestly I don't think he had a firm plan at all, he was just unwilling to sail away leaving Padeen behind.

I also really like the bit in that part with the little girls. Stephen says to some shipmate that he's going to leave them in an orphanage there and he just blurts out "what, in a place like this!?" against all the rules of propriety. Really gets across what a miserable place it appears to the crew as outsiders.

Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.





Genghis Cohen posted:

I'd assumed that having been refused help by Jack, he was just intending to find some other way off Australia with Padeen. I can't imagine he intended to stay in the area permanently - apart from anything else, I think it's mentioned the United Irishman might regard him as a traitor or informant, because of his employment by the British Government. Honestly I don't think he had a firm plan at all, he was just unwilling to sail away leaving Padeen behind.

I also really like the bit in that part with the little girls. Stephen says to some shipmate that he's going to leave them in an orphanage there and he just blurts out "what, in a place like this!?" against all the rules of propriety. Really gets across what a miserable place it appears to the crew as outsiders.

Not just a miserable place but a death sentence or worse for two little 19th century black girls. O'Brian then weaves the narrative of the power of environment/nurture over nature using them being hilariously raised first as foremast swabs, then later, as proper English ladies.

uPen
Jan 25, 2010

Zu Rodina!

Genghis Cohen posted:

I also really like the bit in that part with the little girls. Stephen says to some shipmate that he's going to leave them in an orphanage there and he just blurts out "what, in a place like this!?" against all the rules of propriety. Really gets across what a miserable place it appears to the crew as outsiders.

I really like these scenes. It's from Stephen's perspective so he's not paying too much attention to it but every time he mentions the plan to anyone their reaction is basically 'You want to do WHAT?!' I don't know if I'm imagining this but I think there's a scene where the sailor Stephen had assigned as a surrogate father is trying to get himself blackout drunk after Stephen said yeah we're leaving the kids in this hellhole.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

AUSTRALIA
NEEDS
TURNBULL


Genghis Cohen posted:

I'd assumed that having been refused help by Jack, he was just intending to find some other way off Australia with Padeen. I can't imagine he intended to stay in the area permanently - apart from anything else, I think it's mentioned the United Irishman might regard him as a traitor or informant, because of his employment by the British Government. Honestly I don't think he had a firm plan at all, he was just unwilling to sail away leaving Padeen behind.

I also really like the bit in that part with the little girls. Stephen says to some shipmate that he's going to leave them in an orphanage there and he just blurts out "what, in a place like this!?" against all the rules of propriety. Really gets across what a miserable place it appears to the crew as outsiders.

Yeah, I remember they get mentioned as a potential danger to him, but I thought maybe he'd talk his way out of that because otherwise there's no apparent reason for them being raised (other than to make it clear that when he spotted an old comrade on that ship at the start of the 13-Gun Salute he was also spotted in turn, which maybe has repercussions down the line.)

A really interesting point on portraying how miserable convict Sydney was: right after they show up they see a flogging so bad that the subject walks away from the stage with his blood squelching in his shoes. I read that line and immediately knew O'Brian had read The Fatal Shore by Robert Hughes; I read it years ago but that was definitely one of the most vivid descriptions that stuck in my mind. Then later I checked the foreword (I don't read them before the books because I don't want to spoil anything) and O'Brian sings its praises. Anyone who enjoyed these books should check it out, it's a really excellent and beautifully-written history book examining the convict transportation system and early colonial Australia.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!



Morbid Hound

Master and Commander is currently free to watch if you have Amazon Prime.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004

The internet is the universal sewer.


Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Master and Commander is currently free to watch if you have Amazon Prime.

How is it if you've read the books? I remember seeing a snippet of it and wasn't too impressed.

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Master and Commander is currently free to watch if you have Amazon Prime.

all movies are free to watch if you have a vpn

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



Stringent posted:

How is it if you've read the books? I remember seeing a snippet of it and wasn't too impressed.

It's great. There were some things that weren't perfect, eg. a hobbit Bonden, and Aubrey should have been more jolly, and Maturin more religious, but it's still one of the best adaptations that I've ever seen. The ship sounds so alive if you have a surround system. And she looks great too. I wouldn't recommend watching it from a cell phone.

PlushCow
Oct 19, 2005

The cow eats the grass


Stringent posted:

How is it if you've read the books? I remember seeing a snippet of it and wasn't too impressed.

There are little nods towards things in the novels like Jack scratching a stay, Killick trying to save the silver, Stephen taking up a sword himself, that would have more significance to a reader than a otherwise.

It's a great movie and the problems with it that have come up in this thread before, like casting, or not going into Stephen's spy background beyond hinting at it, are all pretty minor complaints. For a one-film adaptation core themes and characters are expressed well; it's fortunate for fans it's as great as could nearly be hoped.


Crossing my fingers for the Wheel of Time show, and shedding a tear for Dark Tower fans, rip

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!



Morbid Hound

Stringent posted:

How is it if you've read the books? I remember seeing a snippet of it and wasn't too impressed.

It's about as good as it could have been. There are flaws but they made most of the right choices, kinda like Peter Jackson's LotR. There's some hollywoodization but overall they were brave enough to make the right calls most of the time.

I particularly like how it's just a slice of ship life movie. We start at sea, we end at sea, there's no leave taking and no homecoming.

In some ways it's Aubrey/Maturin: Greatest Hit Scenes: The Movie.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.


Maturin's spy stuff being sidelined is ok because the book they are....sorta... basing it on (Far side of the world) has almost no spy action. As said, it's more of a big mish mash of a bunch of stories put into a movie, but I think they did a good job with it overall. It's worth watching as a fan of the books for sure, just know they aren't doing a faithful recreation of the book.

My favorite small thing is Maturin flexing the hand the French broke before playing with Aubrey. A small thing but clearly put in by someone who loves the series.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 28, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns




I think Maturin is actually cast well, but having listened to all the Patrick Tull audiobooks of the series, I can't here the doctor in any voice but Tull's. It's a shame it didn't turn into a longer series-you would think a huge chunk of the cost was getting the ship built and once they had that it would be much cheaper to make subsequent movies or shows.

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

I think Maturin is actually cast well, but having listened to all the Patrick Tull audiobooks of the series, I can't here the doctor in any voice but Tull's. It's a shame it didn't turn into a longer series-you would think a huge chunk of the cost was getting the ship built and once they had that it would be much cheaper to make subsequent movies or shows.

Yeah, apart from Bonden the cast was good to great. Maybe Awkward Davies could have been bigger. And Killick was absolutely perfect.

Sax Solo
Feb 17, 2011





If you've read the books the movie is a must see even if you won't particularly like it. Can't imagine not seeing it. The best thing to do is to read the books again afterwards to cleanse your brain.

Like, the movie's all right, it has some good things! It has a kind of "Rah rah our boys at sea" tone to the ending which is kind of terrible and a painful clash with POB's cynicism. Coming out in 2003 with the buildup to war in Iraq there was a bit of contextual stink to it that probably can't be felt now. Otherwise though the choice of HOW to end it is very good.

I do think Jack and Stephen have most of their character removed. Movie Aubrey is too much a daddy who is always right, and Movie Stephen is too much merely a silly geek. They're pretty bland. But idk, they do the weevil and dog watch things maybe that's enough for ppl.

There isn't really any sailing in it sadly. The Waakzaamheid battle is not in it.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

AUSTRALIA
NEEDS
TURNBULL


Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

I think Maturin is actually cast well, but having listened to all the Patrick Tull audiobooks of the series, I can't here the doctor in any voice but Tull's. It's a shame it didn't turn into a longer series-you would think a huge chunk of the cost was getting the ship built and once they had that it would be much cheaper to make subsequent movies or shows.

I would really, really love to see a Game-of-Thrones-level-budget HBO adaptation of the books.

Raskolnikov2089
Nov 3, 2006

Schizzy to the matic

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

I think Maturin is actually cast well, but having listened to all the Patrick Tull audiobooks of the series, I can't here the doctor in any voice but Tull's. It's a shame it didn't turn into a longer series-you would think a huge chunk of the cost was getting the ship built and once they had that it would be much cheaper to make subsequent movies or shows.

Aside from being too pretty and too tall to be Maturin, Paul Bettany is perfect. He has fantastic chemistry with Russell Crowe.

thekeeshman
Feb 21, 2007


Raskolnikov2089 posted:

Aside from being too pretty and too tall to be Maturin, Paul Bettany is perfect. He has fantastic chemistry with Russell Crowe.

He wasn't terrible, though to be fair the movie didn't give him all that much to do. He played him as kind of calm and stoic, but in the books I think he's much more alive, often grouchy, capable of excellent ranting and rhapsodizing, and I think generally much less sure of himself than he was in the movie.

PhantomOfTheCopier
Aug 13, 2008

Pikabooze!


He didn't even fall in the water!

Every time I watch it I'm a little less offended, but then I pick up the books and reacquire my mental image of the characters, for which there are notable differences. At least there are lots of nods to the books in the movie, so I can appreciate that they did some research instead of just throwing it together based on a handful of pages.

Hmmm, I've never really thought of this before, but I think the movie would have been much more enjoyable if they didn't focus half the movie on Hollum as Jonah. They traded off all the Aubrey/Maturin depth to tell a story about a week midshipman.

Sax Solo
Feb 17, 2011





Also interesting how they played the Jonah/Hollum arc straight when it's a such a clusterfuck (or clustercuck I guess) in the book.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

AUSTRALIA
NEEDS
TURNBULL


One of the most interesting deviations for me (having seen the movie long before I ever read the books) is the ending. From memory the film has just another sea battle and boarding sequence, so the end of the novel where they ended up stranded alongside the American crew who claim the war is over, but Jack doubts it, and the fantastic pressure cooker atmosphere of suspicion and tension that builds up on that island... that was really unique and cool. I can understand why they didn't have the time or the inclination to put that in the movie, but I think it's one of the best sequences O'Brian has written.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!



Morbid Hound

https://twitter.com/KWholesaler/status/1364275354668515328?s=20

Phy
Jun 27, 2008





Fun Shoe

Raskolnikov2089 posted:

Aside from being too pretty and too tall to be Maturin, Paul Bettany is perfect.

Yeah I've been watching Wandavision and seeing Bettany tower over the rest of the cast had me scrambling for google. They cast a 6'4" dude as short, dark, plain Stephen Maturin

E: I still liked him in the role though

I saw the movie long before I ever read any of the books, and Russell Crowe and Killick really stuck for me for what those characters look like.

Phy fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Feb 23, 2021

PhantomOfTheCopier
Aug 13, 2008

Pikabooze!


Phy posted:

Yeah I've been watching Wandavision and seeing Bettany tower over the rest of the cast had me scrambling for google. They cast a 6'4" dude as short, dark, plain Stephen Maturin

E: I still liked him in the role though

I saw the movie long before I ever read any of the books, and Russell Crowe and Killick really stuck for me for what those characters look like.

Yeah it's weird. Having read all the books, some multiple times, Crowe is NOT Aubrey at all for me. Bettany was fine, no real issues with the height. Whether or not he could have carried Stephen's pouting attitude and extreme focus despite surroundings, I don't know. Killick seemed like good casting so much so that I don't really remember what Killick was like before I saw the movie.

I've been thinking about a reread but haven't committed just yet.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.


Crowe was too well built and generally dashing for Aubrey but in general I thought the energy he brought more than pulled it off.

freebooter
Jul 7, 2009

AUSTRALIA
NEEDS
TURNBULL



Lol I follow that guy on twitter and he was saying the other week these are the most boring books ever, but he appears to have been won over by the audiobooks

builds character
Jan 16, 2008

Keep at it.


Lockback posted:

Crowe was too well built and generally dashing for Aubrey but in general I thought the energy he brought more than pulled it off.

Wrong.

The Captain has an uncommon genteel figgar

Sax Solo
Feb 17, 2011





Lockback posted:

Crowe was too well built and generally dashing for Aubrey but in general I thought the energy he brought more than pulled it off.

I think Crowe did a good job but he didn't seem like Jack from the books to me. Aubrey gets dashing for free from his uniform and exploits, and he's a big physical guy. He seems to have a lot of success with women despite having no game whatsoever. Women like him and want to take him for a spin knowing he'll be off to sea soon. I tend to think pudgy Channing Tatum could play pretty well.

For Stephen, idk, you could probably ugly down James McAvoy enough. Or grab any weedy ugly guy like Burn Gorman off the rack.

Pwnstar
Dec 9, 2007

Who wants some waffles?



Aubrey is the original himbo. He knows about sailing but otherwise he's a big goof, Russel Crowe needed to oaf it up a bit imo.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!



Morbid Hound

I personally thought Crowe did a decent job. Bettany gave a good performance but was hampered by being a foot too tall and way, way too pretty white boy. He needed to be a foot shorter and a lot less pretty and much more tanned. Every time I looked at him I thought "who's that" not "that's stephen!"

Fire Safety Doug
Sep 3, 2006

99 % caffeine free is 99 % not my kinda thing

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I personally thought Crowe did a decent job. Bettany gave a good performance but was hampered by being a foot too tall and way, way too pretty white boy. He needed to be a foot shorter and a lot less pretty and much more tanned. Every time I looked at him I thought "who's that" not "that's stephen!"

This is pretty much how I feel. And while Iíve got no beef with Billy Boyd, he just doesnít look like the boxing champion of the fleet. But overall they did a good job with casting.

Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.



Pwnstar posted:

Aubrey is the original himbo. He knows about sailing but otherwise he's a big goof, Russel Crowe needed to oaf it up a bit imo.

I've always thought a younger John Goodman would have been a great Jack Aubrey. Too late now, obviously, but he's the right mix of fat/big/strong and can be oafish and funny but also serious and commanding.

Phenotype fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Feb 26, 2021

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Phenotype posted:

I've always thought a younger John Goodman would have been a great Jack Aubrey. Too late now, obviously, but he's the right mix of fat/big/strong and can be oafish and funny but also serious and commanding.

Hell yes.

For Maturin, Steve Buscemi.

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Mr. Mambold
Feb 13, 2011

Aha. Nice post.





Phenotype posted:

I've always thought a younger John Goodman would have been a great Jack Aubrey. Too late now, obviously, but he's the right mix of fat/big/strong and can be oafish and funny but also serious and commanding.

No. I cannot ever conceive Goodman as a Brit. Crowe stays. Daniel Day-Lewis or maybe Ed Harris with scruffed, scarry features and the opposite of lifts in his shoes for Maturin. Ron Perlman could be Barrett Bonden.

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