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MeatwadIsGod posted:I will say that the 1812a-1812b timescale is really starting to mess with me. When I think of events from Fortune of War or Surgeon's Mate they feel like they happened to a Stephen or a Jack of ten years earlier instead of just a few months earlier. At least O'Brian was candid enough in his author's note to say he would have done the chronology totally differently if he knew ahead of time how much he'd enjoy writing the series. I forget if there's a break on land after Surgeon's Mate, but I always figured about fifteen or twenty years had passed since the beginning of the series til Far Side of the World -- I think that's around the time Jack and Stephen start complaining about their age. I've never had a problem with the timeline, though. It helps that, besides the actions with the American frigates, Jack and Stephen are usually further outside what you'd think of as the "main plot" of history, so it's fine to imagine them taking years sailing off to India or Mauritius and when they return the French are still around as the eternal enemy, and the war with Napoleon has just been raging in the background while they're off on adventures. I don't think they ever straight-up mention what year it is, either. MASH aired for eleven years and no one ever wondered why the war was still going on. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Sep 14, 2021 |
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Sep 14, 2021 02:41
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 13:45 |
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Master and Commander begins in 1800 if I remember correctly. I guess my complaint about the timescale is the "hurry up and wait" aspect. The first five or so novels cover about 12 years with each novel covering at least 1-2 years so it got me into this rhythm where each novel covers roughly the same amount of time and then suddenly there's several books in this super elongated 1-2 year period so it's just jarring compared with the rhythm of the earlier novels. It's a minor quibble so whatever.
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Sep 14, 2021 02:55
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Yeah I feel like 1812-1814 is like, six books.
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Sep 14, 2021 07:52
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Class Warcraft posted:Yeah I feel like 1812-1814 is like, six books. 13! The War of 1812 starts in book 6, The Fortune of War, and ends (EDIT: I mean that Napoleon gets deposed in 1814) in book 18, The Yellow Admiral. I personally don't have a problem with it, it's almost a neat solution to the difficulties of slotting fictional characters and events into the flow of history.
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Sep 14, 2021 09:31
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Just finished The Ionian Mission, it was good.
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Sep 14, 2021 22:01
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Hah, maybe it's just because you guys are a lot better at history than I am. I don't really know what's supposed to be happening when, so I'm not thinking "Oh it's the War of 1812, only a couple years til Napoleon escapes!" I'm just thinking "Okay they're at war with the Americans now and then Jack and Stephen can go on any number of timeless adventures until they next decide to refer to a major historical event." Like I said, it seems like O'Brien purposely put them outside the more famous battles and fleet actions so that history wouldn't keep getting in the way of whatever sea stories he wanted to tell. (I also like that Jack was involved with two of the frigate actions with the Americans in Fortune of War, but in both cases he was just there as a passenger and didn't have any command or responsibility besides directing a few cannons.)
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Sep 14, 2021 22:13
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MeatwadIsGod posted:Master and Commander begins in 1800 if I remember correctly. I was about to pipe up 1801 because in Post Captain Stephen says that he met Jack in "the year one" IIRC, but wikipedia says 1800, so idk what's going on.
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Sep 14, 2021 22:28
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This is a pretty good rundown: http://www.hmssurprise.org/aubrey-maturin-chronology
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Sep 14, 2021 22:53
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Noteably, the characters are supposed to be aging during the timeless period, even if history isn't moving. Also tracking Jack's career, it's absurd he would have achieved the ranks he did by chronological time, but by the unfinished book by "Jack time" he's in his mid 40s or so. So there's about 10 years or so that are jammed in there.
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Sep 16, 2021 14:35
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MeatwadIsGod posted:Finished Far Side of the World. Holy hell the "Jonah" subplot is so much more grim than what was in the movie. I was generally pretty surprised how little the movie took from this book. I knew about the antagonists changing from American to French, of course, but really the book is a totally different animal aside from a few elements and characters. My favourite change is the climax. The movie's battle ending is fine, especially for the big screen, but the book's tense small-scale political pressure cooker where they're stranded on an island with people who may or may not still be their enemies is way more gripping. I haven't finished the series yet but it's easily one of my favourite setpieces so far. The others would be: Stephen and Jack going overboard in the same book; the Dutch warship chase in the southern seas; the Leopard's iceberg collision; Escape from Boston. Probably some others I'm forgetting for the moment, but these were definitely the most gripping.
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Sep 17, 2021 10:39
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The entire French prison sequence in the Surgeon's Mate is great.
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Sep 17, 2021 10:44
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Ahoy, thread. I finally read Master and Commander last year, loved it, and picked up the next few. I'm currently in the middle of HMS Surprise. I went down to the local library's book sale today and walked away with all this for $12. I might have to go back tomorrow because they were spread out around like 20 tables. They just kept appearing as I was walking.
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Sep 17, 2021 23:35
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Deeters posted:Ahoy, thread. I finally read Master and Commander last year, loved it, and picked up the next few. I'm currently in the middle of HMS Surprise. I went down to the local library's book sale today and walked away with all this for $12. a nice haul!
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Sep 18, 2021 11:53
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MeatwadIsGod posted:the movie As far as I'm concerned that little Boccherini ditty at the end is the theme song for the books. By the end of my first read of the series I would play it on my phone as I cracked into the first few pages of the next book. Also, I've started into season 1 of The Terror and it definitely had me missing Jack and Stephen. I wonder what Jack would have made of screw-driven ships... Do I correctly remember him being rather skeptical of an early steam launch?
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Sep 24, 2021 18:05
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I believe he likes then later on as a few steam-powered tugs started being built and he had to deal with a career where you could be wind bound in harbors for weeks on end.
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Sep 25, 2021 01:16
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Phy posted:
The series is pretty good but the book is real good, especially if you have the background from O'Brian. If possible it's better to read the book first.
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Sep 26, 2021 00:46
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Phy posted:Also, I've started into season 1 of The Terror and it definitely had me missing Jack and Stephen. I wonder what Jack would have made of screw-driven ships... Do I correctly remember him being rather skeptical of an early steam launch? This is IMO one of the most underrated series of the decade, you're in for a real treat.
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Sep 26, 2021 11:09
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There was a bit where Jack and a few other officers were sitting around a table discussing technological advances in shipbuilding. IIRC the main topic was whether the sailors of the future were going to become glorified mechanics and engineers, which they all found fairly horrifying.
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Sep 26, 2021 14:04
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freebooter posted:This is IMO one of the most underrated series of the decade, you're in for a real treat. Book was better. Series was pretty good, but the book had the better ending.
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Sep 30, 2021 04:53
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Is it by Hyperion Dan Simmons, or Rise of Endymion Dan Simmons? (Imma read it either way, I had to request an interlibrary loan since it's only in our system as an audiobook and I still prefer paper) The captains and mates being in uniform much of the time while icelocked in the Arctic strikes me as a little odd, but maybe that's me being used to Jack - I remember him dressing for the weather more often than not unless circumstances demanded, like Sundays or visiting captains. E: or maybe it's just tv shorthand for "remember, these guys are the captains"
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Oct 1, 2021 17:51
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In my recollection there's like one chapter of good Dan Simmons that's almost worth it; the rest is pretty dull. e: in The Terror you knob. Sax Solo fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Oct 1, 2021 |
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Oct 1, 2021 18:13
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What the hell Hyperion is a masterpiece. The sequels not so much.
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Oct 1, 2021 20:25
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I'm pleasantly surprised by how much Aubrey/Maturing stuff is on red bubble. I bought a Killick shirt.
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Oct 2, 2021 23:33
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Phenotype posted:Hah, maybe it's just because you guys are a lot better at history than I am. I don't really know what's supposed to be happening when, so I'm not thinking "Oh it's the War of 1812, only a couple years til Napoleon escapes!" I'm just thinking "Okay they're at war with the Americans now and then Jack and Stephen can go on any number of timeless adventures until they next decide to refer to a major historical event." Like I said, it seems like O'Brien purposely put them outside the more famous battles and fleet actions so that history wouldn't keep getting in the way of whatever sea stories he wanted to tell. One of the big problems with the timeline is the fact that the big battle which ended any real chance of France seriously contesting Britain's control of the sea happened in 1805, relatively early on. There was a lot more going on before then.
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Oct 4, 2021 18:46
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I'll be honest this always confused me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fs-GP5xHGM
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Dec 9, 2021 01:57
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Arglebargle III posted:I'll be honest this always confused me This video is oddly relaxing to watch. Thanks!
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Dec 9, 2021 23:55
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Arglebargle III posted:I'll be honest this always confused me Well, there goes years of my assuming it was just a pie full of freshly caught seafood. This is way better!
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Dec 11, 2021 01:48
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Most of the ocean is a frickin desert in terms of being able to catch anything. The times when you could actually reliably catch fish (near shore, moving slowly) it's usually called out as kind of a big deal. Freshly caught seafood was probably quite rare during a voyage.
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Dec 11, 2021 06:41
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Lockback posted:Most of the ocean is a frickin desert in terms of being able to catch anything. The times when you could actually reliably catch fish (near shore, moving slowly) it's usually called out as kind of a big deal. Freshly caught seafood was probably quite rare during a voyage. that's interesting, i'd always wondered about that
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Dec 11, 2021 06:59
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Stringent posted:that's interesting, i'd always wondered about that Yep. The exact reason they pack so much salt horse and other foodstuffs for the voyage. No guarantee of catching fish on a regular basis, nor in quantities large enough to feed a whole crew.
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Dec 11, 2021 07:05
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Arglebargle III posted:I'll be honest this always confused me might have to try that
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Dec 11, 2021 12:12
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Stringent posted:that's interesting, i'd always wondered about that In the tropic zone, most of the surface water is extremely poor in nitrogen, phosphorus, sulfur, and iron. Phytoplankton are very limited by nutrients despite the sunlight and oxygen. The temperate and polar open ocean are much more productive. That's why they often run into Portuguese fisherman off Canada but not between Africa and South America. The Sargasso Sea is an anomaly caused by currents carrying nutrient-rich waters from the Caribbean continental shelf into the mid-Atlantic.
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Dec 11, 2021 18:41
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Pretty sure this is the soup that Maturin is always prescribing to his patients: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fE5KzvOZRk
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Dec 17, 2021 07:20
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Did we ever talk about the "Fake Irishman" thing, and how it makes how all his 'good' irish characters are loyal to the UK and would never want independence kinda creepy?
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Dec 24, 2021 18:12
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I don't agree I don't see Dylan as a villain and I don't think Maturin is a loyalist. Padeen doesn't have any political ideology. A failed Irish revolutionary being active in later independence movements around the world is very realistic.
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Dec 24, 2021 19:12
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Arglebargle III posted:I don't agree I don't see Dylan as a villain and I don't think Maturin is a loyalist. Padeen doesn't have any political ideology. A failed Irish revolutionary being active in later independence movements around the world is very realistic. maturin in the first book and in the rest is essentially a different character
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Dec 24, 2021 23:19
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I mostly got the vibe that Maturin is only really loyal to the UK insomuch as they are the best bludgeon to beat on Napoleon with. I always got the feeling that while he would prefer Irish independence, he was too jaded to think it really possible so he diverted those feeling towards Catalonia and their cause.
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Dec 25, 2021 06:47
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ChubbyChecker posted:maturin in the first book and in the rest is essentially a different character Yep. IIRC in Master & Commander Stephen says something to the effect of "I don't care enough about Napoleon to shoot him even if he were standing on this deck." You could retcon it and say this was a way of keeping himself undercover assuming he was spying on behalf of the Admiralty as early as 1800 or so, but eh. I still find his espionage work hard to reconcile with his past as a United Irishman, especially considering Vinegar Hill would have been very recent history during the early books. My headcanon is Stephen developing a sort of pre-Marxist conception of Bonapartism and opposing Napoleon on those grounds.
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Dec 25, 2021 18:51
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I agree the espionage thing seems like it was added after the first book. I see what you mean about an unlikely background to becoming a crown agent, but on the other hand, espionage has always drawn on shady characters with mixed loyalties and dubious backgrounds. Fivemarks posted:Did we ever talk about the "Fake Irishman" thing, and how it makes how all his 'good' irish characters are loyal to the UK and would never want independence kinda creepy? What's the 'Fake Irishman' thing?
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Dec 25, 2021 23:50
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I think at one point he explicitly says that he's heartbroken by the failure of the rising, and is smart enough to see that the conditions aren't right for another attempt, so he basically gives up on Ireland and uses his position in British intelligence to push for other things he cares about like independence for Catalonia and South American colonies. He also talks about how he was in Paris during the revolution, and as an enlightenment thinker was ecstatic for the possibility of rights and rational government (also at one point he mentions that he had personally written several bills of rights, such a nerd), then got a front row seat for the whole thing going to poo poo and ending up with the terror and Napoleon. He's fundamentally a heartbroken romantic disguising himself as a cynic, which I think applies to his love life as well.
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Dec 26, 2021 16:34
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