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master mystifier posted:
"I give you joy of your discovery." I am rereading this series now as well and my favorite thing to do is when I finish a book is to find what I can of the actual history. Sure, all the amazing feats attributed to Jno Aubrey would be highly improbably to have occurred to a single person BUT the fact that these things DID happen is really spectacular. And, what better way to view these events than through the eyes of characters we come to know and understand? Stephen, in particular, can be very droll so if he says something that seems like a throwaway line it's probably worth revisiting for the hidden meaning. For people asking what else is there in this vein you can try Alexander Kent's Midshipman Bolitho novels. I don't think they compare very well to C.S. Forrester much less Patrick O'brian but if you got to have your 25 drops, you got to have it.
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Mar 9, 2011 19:13
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SafetyDance posted:Even though I always envisioned Aubrey and Maturin as kinda like a battle-scarred John Goodman and Steve Buscemi... I just want to point out that at his heaviest when Stephen is lambasting Jack for his weight he comes in at ~16 stone which is 224 lbs which isn't that huge for an athletic 6 footer. At his more normal 14 stone (196 lbs) he would probably be pretty close to what he was portrayed as in the movie.
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Mar 29, 2011 02:25
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I just got Mr. Midshipman Easy by Marryat. I've heard conflicting things on the quality of the writin but the author was a 3rd Lt. under Cochrane so it's certainly got the authenticity factor going for it.
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Apr 17, 2011 04:20
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withak posted:Cutaways are awesome. Another excellent resource is: http://www.hms-trincomalee.co.uk/ Which has lots of information, diagrams and photos the HMS Trincomalee a 44 gun frigate similar to the ones constantly being offered Aubry and taken away under some pretext. Check out how large roomy and full of light the Great Cabin is on the photos page.
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May 2, 2011 14:30
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Maturin usually just throws the (blood and gore splattered) leather apron he was wearing for a surgery into a corner when he is done. Presumably that's where he picks up from later when it's time to cut up another patient/cadaver/animal/etc and cares to mind his clothes.
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May 7, 2011 02:18
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Decius posted:I also enjoyed the movie a lot, despite the freedom they took with depicting Maturin. Having a bunch of amazing actors for basically every role didn't hurt either, even if they weren't quite as the description of the characters in the books. The only character I was actually disappointed with was Bonden. He was fine just not my idea of what Bonden looked like. For the rest I thought the movie was very well done, I'm not sure what was maudlin about it that wasn't expressed similarly in the books.
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May 14, 2011 18:56
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CarterUSM posted:That part legitimately gave me a big lump in my throat. Such a great moment. And like most of the best things in the series, it really happened. Edit: If you read the authors note you'll know that almost everything that happened in that plot-line really happened. What's amazing is that we aren't done with Cochrane's exploits yet, you've got one hell of a doozy coming in a few more books that really happened also. Murgos fucked around with this message at 02:04 on May 17, 2011 |
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May 17, 2011 01:57
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Smashurbanipal posted:I'm amused at how often O'Brian stresses that Sophia is prettier than Diana, but men just seem to be drawn towards DV nonetheless. DV plays billiards, smokes, drinks and gambles. She's much more fun to be around.
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May 18, 2011 21:24
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Tanith posted:Has anyone else read David Donachie's stuff (By the Mast Divided and so on)? I am unsure as to whether or not it is worth committing to, but the premise thusfar is of an intellectual pressed into the service as an ordinary seaman, which is at least something new. O'Brian has that happen a couple of times during his books. The person ends up being Aubrey's clerk or Maturin's assistant. It's an unfortunate part of the era that talent wasn't typically rewarded. The earlier pre-Napolean navy was largely based on merit, O'Brian comments on figures like William Mitchell who was 'flogged around the fleet' as a foremast hand but later rose to the rank of vice-admiral. The later era, as is mentioned repeatedly, you had to pass for a gentleman. I.e. come from well regarded birth and background. This is why Pullings despite numerous successful actions and the ability to take a frigate around the world has so much difficulty getting off the shore.
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May 22, 2011 17:31
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I think there are better books after the Ionian Mission. They do slow down a lot but the stories actually get better.
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Jun 30, 2011 17:46
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Bonden is probably the only casting misstep that really stands out from the movie for me. He just wasn't 'salty' enough, didn't look like someone who had spent his whole life on the sea and fought bare knuckle matches against pros.
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Jul 24, 2012 13:24
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The amount of considered detail in these stories is really pretty impressive. For example I never thought about the name, "Villiers" but it turns out that the Villiers were a prominent family that rose and fell several times into and out of the peerage, most prominently as the Dukes of Buckingham under Charles I and II around the time of the revolution. So, making Diana part of the Villiers clan makes a lot of sense. A once powerful family but now just on the edges of power and wealth, still with a lot of cachet among the great families but a bit down on their heels. Which helps explain why even when she is consorting with Richard Canning the princes and other notables still come to her parties.
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Jan 16, 2014 16:30
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Decius posted:Not 400 kg huge, but 20-30 kg overweight wasn't something never seen. They are very polite about they way they say it, and many portraits go to great lengths to hide it, but Kings George IV and William IV (Duke of Clarence in the books) were quite large as were many of the wealthy of the time. I seem to recall an anecdote about one of them being so large that they couldn't get the extra-large coffin closed.
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Jun 19, 2014 18:36
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bondetamp posted:Yes, except that Cochrane, not being bound by any need to seem realistic, was rather more spectacular. Aubrey's exploits on the west coast of South America with O'Higgins are also based on Cochrane. Cochrane had an amazingly full life, not only was he a major player in Europe but also being of key importance in the shaping of Peru, Chile and Brazil.
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Aug 10, 2014 21:34
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:A readership, naturalment. "Why Stephen, I just said the greatest thing! Did you hear it? I said a readership." Cut to Jack chortling to himself for three days afterwards.
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Sep 9, 2014 19:49
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BeigeJacket posted:Regarding Maturins accent, it's worth considering that, even though he was bastard born, he came from a monied family and had a first rate education in top universities. I think it's stated that he's a bastard of a FitzGerald. Specifically that Lord Edward FitzGerald is a cousin. A quick look through wikipedia shows that the FitzGeralds are rife with Earls and Dukes and other such 'peers of the realm'. So, yeah, wealthy and important connections. He was never going to have a lower class thick Irish brogue.
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Sep 17, 2014 18:21
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Arglebargle III posted:Mr. Blakeney is Mr. Reed but is he an amalgamation with a character I haven't run into yet? I don't remember any lords in the midshipmen's berth. I think Mr. Babbington. quote:What are the knees? Hanging knees? I finally figured out the chains (which are not chains I think the hanging knees are the curved bits attached to the frame that the cross pieces rest on to support the decks.  I think the knees themselves attach the the keel and support the ribs. In six frigates the author discusses how much effort went into finding live oak specimens that had grown naturally into the shape needed for strong knees. So, you could see why having good knees would be an important quality in a weatherly vessel.  Also, I think the chains were actual chains wrapped around the hull to help hold the whole thing together. quote:As an English teacher I also love the flexible way they use "which." Often they'll just jam two sentences together with it. Which is as it should be, mate. e: VVVVV from your link quote:or, in earlier sailing ships, to lengths of chain along the ship's side. The purpose of which would be to distribute the load along the hull. Bugger your pardon. Murgos fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Nov 10, 2014 |
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Nov 10, 2014 19:57
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) but I don't have a good grasp of the rest of the load-bearing structure of the ship.
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Jack is aware that Stephen is a bastard of the FitzGeralds and that Stephen was friendly with his cousin Edward as well as Stephens generally revolutionary leanings. Also, I recall him telling Jack that he was against the 1798 rebellion and that his experiences with the excesses in the French revolution make him believe that a democratic monarchy is preferable to a pure democracy. I like that theory about 'cousin Patrick' being his father. It fits pretty well. I doubt if we'll ever know how cousin Patrick fits into the FitzGerald dynasty though since it has such a huge and sprawling tree.
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Nov 13, 2014 15:34
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Is it pathetically spergy that what I really want is more of a quarterdeck simulator than an age of sail fighting game? I don't even think I would want ship-to-ship combat to be the focus, rather just sailing to different ports and such. "Helmsman, make your course south by south west." "Leadsman to the chains!" etc...
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Nov 24, 2014 17:42
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:It's strange, but after Aubrey/Maturin, I just couldn't re-read Hornblower. I agree, I read Hornblower first as a teenager and usually the books I read during that period, no matter how flawed, have a special place for me where they just seem better than other books. I tried going back to Hornblower after my latest read through of O'Brian and it's just not there. Too, cliche? Too shallow? I don't know, somethings missing. Anyway, I think a good case could be made that Aubrey is Kirk and Maturin is an amalgam of Spock & McCoy.
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Dec 19, 2014 20:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:My favorite Austen is actually Northanger Abbey, just because it's so hilarious if you've read a lot of other gothic fiction. I think the two biggest barriers to reading Austen are Part of the joy of reading that passage quoted above is that by the time Jack has opened his mouth in the second paragraph you know they are going to be talking about two different things. I'm actually amazed that O'Brian resorted to explaining the joke and didn't just have them both wander off confused. Maturin wondering if Jack has been a pederast this whole time and Jack wondering if Maturin has come to appreciate the, 'Music of the Spheres'. Speaking of which, what animal's haunch was Jack eating at the Sultan's feast? He thinks it's venison but it's no bigger than a hares. Maybe a mouse deer?
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Jan 16, 2015 19:01
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Speaking of the Post Captain, what the hell happens to Mr. Scriven? He just sort of disappears between scenes, is mentioned once more in an off hand ("Stevens servant") and then is never to be seen again. e: Sappo569 posted:I'll be honest, I flew through the first book in the series (being the most well known) If you want, after you have finished the book, here are details of the action at the end of Post Captain. About 2/3rds down the page from the Amphion's Captain's log: http://genealogy.northern-skies.net/genealogy.php?number=187 The Oct 20th 1804 edition of the London Gazette article on the action: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/15747/page/1309 Wiki entry for the action: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_5_October_1804 Anyway, don't read the books in a vacuum, they are much more interesting IMO when related to history. Murgos fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Feb 23, 2015 |
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Feb 23, 2015 15:51
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The Merry Marauder posted:It's been a while, but I remember he was at the door when the tipstaff and his mates broke in on Pullings' dinner, did he tip them off and then disappear? I wen't back and re-read that paragraph. During the party, after everyone is good and drunk, Scrivens opens the door and looks for Jack, once he has found him he throws open the door and the tipstaffs come barging in. Stephen, that old file, was onto Scrivens and put out a hand to warn Jack as soon as the door was opened and he poked his head in. For some reason the subtlety of that had always alluded me in my previous readings/listenings. I had always read that as Scrivens opened the door to warn Jack and the tipstaffs came barging in on his heels. Murgos fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Feb 25, 2015 |
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Feb 25, 2015 20:56
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If anyone wants to know what a 50 guinea patriotic fund sword from the Battle of Pulo Aura (as described in HMS Surprise) looked like: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/78489.html
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Mar 4, 2015 19:44
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Stephen is prone to practicing on those more lubberly than him when they put him out of sorts. Stephen does a very good explanation of wind, tides and leeway to Jagiello at one point with the purpose of scaring him about a nearby lee shore after Jagiello beats him at chess. Stephen also cheats at cards when people annoy him.
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May 12, 2015 14:29
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Nah, I just read a section in The Surgeons Mate where Stephen consecutively cuts to aces absently while having a conversation with Jagiello. I'm not saying he doesn't also read people and understand basic probability, he just also cheats when he's annoyed at them and has an understanding of how other people might cheat at cards (Wray for example).
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May 12, 2015 16:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I would have to write it all out and I'm on my phone, but basically there's no point in the series where superstition doesn't act in a manner indistinguishable from a law of nature. You can always read it two ways but I can't think or a point where the superstitions prove wrong. In The Surgeons Mate there is a section where Stephen is going to negotiate with some Catalan soldiers on a fortified island and in the lead up to it many bad omens happen. Stephens patient dies, he accidentally drops a glass of wine that Jack is handing to him, they sail on Friday and it's the 13th day of the month, etc... But nothing bad happens. Jack specifically calls out that he is going to ignore omens from now on. While touching wood of course, because that's not superstition that's just good common sense. But that's almost the exception that proves the rule, generally bad omens and superstitions pay off.
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May 12, 2015 18:00
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The thing is though that even in that sequence in the The Surgeons Mate, between the bad omens and the wreck on the French coast there are a lot of things that go perfectly. So, you can attribute the wreck to the omens but it would certainly take a bit of gymnastics to not count things like the success of the mission, the luck of intercepting the French officers before they arrive, the chancing upon the exact ship the garrison is expecting to arrive, the great time they make in traversing the channel and weathering Scilly, that Jack engages a French 74 while in a 16 gun sloop and comes out with no wounded or dead or that even during the wreck itself no one is seriously injured and the ship is able to be safely grounded.
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May 13, 2015 13:12
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If anyone is curious as to what Aubrey's Nile medal looked like: http://www.historicmedals.com/viewItem.php?no=1018&b=2&img=A Silver ones were for junior officers.
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Jul 29, 2015 03:30
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withak posted:The medallion bears an image of a person holding a giant medallion bearing the image of the subject of the medallion. It's even better when you realize that Nelson (the subject) designed them and paid for them out of his own pocket.
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Jul 30, 2015 04:09
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The reverse of the medal spoiler. Lol at Wray mocking Maturin for being cuckolded when Wray is actually the one being given horns (by Aubrey's protege Babbington). e: VVV I thought that was just Wray further mocking Maturin, just to his face? Murgos fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Sep 23, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 19:55
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at the date posted:I read Persuasion today, and it's clear that out of all of Jane Austen's novels, O'Brian was most influenced by this one. The exact moment in history is important to the plot of this more than any other Austen novel, as most of the principle male characters are prize-rich naval officers returning to shore in the peace of 1814. I could almost recognize Jack Aubrey in the minor character of Admiral Croft, a bluff, genial warrior who allows himself to be steered by his wife in all matters on land. It's fairly short and well worth a read to any A-M fan. I checked out this audiobook from the library, so far I am liking it but all the main characters (we haven't gotten to Captain Fredrick yet) are pretty much all reprehensible, the petty small mindedness and concern with preference and breeding really reads like satire. Is it attempting to be accurate? I know Jane Austen was of that class of people but I don't know if shes being honest. e: Her brother, Francis Austen, was an accomplished navy officer who would have been a very senior post-captain around the time the novel was written (flag captain of the channel fleet) and was knighted in 1815. Although he didn't make rear-admiral until 1830 he later climbed as high as Admiral of the Fleet. e2: She also had another brother, Charles Austin, who also was a post-captain in the royal navy around the time the novel was written. So, I would guess that her naval characters are pretty well grounded in reality and are probably based on people she met socially. Murgos fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 14:31
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Molybdenum posted:Mr. Midshipman Easy is a good book too. I didn't care for it. It's a novice effort and his later books are much better. e: One thing that I really miss about the series with O'Brian's passing is that we never got to see the Duke of Clarence give Aubrey his step (KB, Baronetcy?) after ascending to the throne as William IV (and after some suitable service of course). I feel that with all the setup there that O'Brian had to have had their relationship in mind for a natural conclusion to the series. Also, Maturin as the King's Physician. Having to dress for court and attend, hah, he would have hated it. Murgos fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Sep 28, 2015 |
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Sep 25, 2015 01:22
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I was going to ask about the recipe for Boiled Fowl with Oyster Sauce but I googled it and there are lots of recipes available and it's as simple as it sounds. Boil fowl. Get oysters in their liquor and make a sauce by cooking them with some butter and wine, maybe use some flour to thicken, if you want. Pour sauce over fowl. I'd probably roast the chicken in stead but, yeah. Seems easy enough. e: Been working my way through an audiobook of Moby Dick checked out from the library. Did a good job of scratching that nautical itch. I couldn't get into it in written form but read aloud by a competent narrator it's really great. Also, American whalers hunting sperm whales don't use a crow's nest. That's a lazy English invention for hunting the right whale and no upright Nantucketer would deign to consider it. Murgos fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 21:36
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Galaga Galaxian posted:So recently I became interested in this series and I thought to ask my dad who was a load master in the airforce in the late 70s/early 80s if he had any of these books, since he used to buy tons of books to kill time on his frequent ocean-crossing flights and remembered Age-of-Sail books as one of the genres he'd buy (alongside trashy fantasy novels). Digging through his boxes he wasn't able to find any Aubrey-Maturin novels (yet?), but he did end up finding a stack of at least a dozen Bolitho novels by Alexander Kent. Are these books any good? I think you would be fine if you read them before Aubrey/Maturin or even Hornblower but Bolitho is really in third place. I know I read all the Hornblower stuff first and loved it (20 years ago) but I can't go back now and every time I've picked up a Bolitho novel I have bailed and gone back to reread Aubrey/Maturin.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:00
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PlushCow posted:The best advice for the novels I got in this thread was not to get bogged down in the nautical jargon if you don't understand it, it's alright not to understand it all, because anything the author believes you really should know will get explained to a character (mostly the doctor Maturin) who knows nothing about sailing. I think a lot of the nautical jargon and cant is really just there because it's fun to say. If it's important to the story or an interesting bit of trivia it will get explained otherwise it's set dressing. I like the interludes where some phrase that's common today gets outed as having been 19th century nautical jargon. The bitter end. By and large. Etc...
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Jan 21, 2016 16:22
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The below edition of The Wine Dark Sea has an audio interview with Patrick O'Brian in it. Just a few minutes of fluff but still interesting, I wouldn't buy it just for the interview but if your library has it and your curious then have fun. http://www.audible.com/pd/Fiction/The-Wine-Dark-Sea-Audiobook/B002V1A268
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Feb 8, 2016 13:52
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Maturin is pretty conflicted when it comes to class. His father's father is, very likely a duke and his mothers family is of similar standing in Spain, though not as clearly referenced. But, he's a bastard and so gains none of that instant deference that would be his due if he were the result of a recognized union. But, his families connections and influence gave him one of the best educations possible and also access to the highest level people for clandestine meetings. But, he has a strong sympathy for the french revolutionary ideas. But he is a friend of the English royal family. Murgos fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Feb 24, 2016 |
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Feb 24, 2016 16:09
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bondetamp posted:Someone mentioned this wonderful detail on Facebook earlier. I don't get it. The description of George Watt 1st of the Shannon? Or that Diana was using the Masters cabin? Or that Phillip Broke drilled his crew on gunnery relentlessly?
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Mar 14, 2016 18:26
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Colonial Air Force posted:I don't think there's a joke and people are just reading in to it too much. Yeah, the interesting thing would be if that's an accurate description of Watt from some 200 year old source that O'Brian just casually throws in about someone who is only even slightly relevant to this particular story.
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Mar 15, 2016 15:47
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