Electro-Industrial: Military Marching to Machine Music

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Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

This discussion reminds of a story I heard from friends who used to hang out at the local gothic-industial club years ago. Apparently, some of the guys from My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult showed up after playing a show, then got kicked out for taking over the DJ booth and playing C&C Music Factory. Though they might have been drunk.

Noricae posted:

Great interview, Twiin, especially the Johnny Cash anecdote and the "I try really hard to make sure I�m not just listening to industrial music." The majority of fans in every niche genre across all fandom are like this, I guess, but it's pretty prominent with some music fans that don't care about influences and the history of whatever they're listening to (because it's not cool! :p).

Yeah, loved the interview. Love gothic-industrial music. But I wonder if it's more pronounced in this scene than others. Because there seems to be more focus on total aesthetic unity. I want to emphasize that. And take this Blutengel video.

Great song and a drat entertaining video. But dude is literally sitting on a throne. He's a powerful and celebrated (male) authority figure. And no one is getting into the party at Castle Dracula unless they're dressed for the part. These are not the greatest virtues.

Ivan Shitskin fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Mar 15, 2012

# ¿ Mar 14, 2012 21:47

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# ¿ Jan 22, 2025 05:20

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

Oh! I forgot about this Nov. 2010 NYTimes article: "The Hipster in the Mirror." It deals with urban hipster culture, not gothic subculture, but it has some good lessons:

quote:

Taste is not stable and peaceful, but a means of strategy and competition. Those superior in wealth use it to pretend they are superior in spirit. Groups closer in social class who yet draw their status from different sources use taste and its attainments to disdain one another and get a leg up. These conflicts for social dominance through culture are exactly what drive the dynamics within communities whose members are regarded as hipsters.

Once you take the Bourdieuian view, you can see how hipster neighborhoods are crossroads where young people from different origins, all crammed together, jockey for social gain. One hipster subgroup�s strategy is to disparage others as �liberal arts college grads with too much time on their hands�; the attack is leveled at the children of the upper middle class who move to cities after college with hopes of working in the �creative professions.� These hipsters are instantly declassed, reservoired in abject internships and ignored in the urban hierarchy � but able to use college-taught skills of classification, collection and appreciation to generate a superior body of cultural �cool.�

They, in turn, may malign the �trust fund hipsters.� This challenges the philistine wealthy who, possessed of money but not the nose for culture, convert real capital into �cultural capital� (Bourdieu�s most famous coinage), acquiring subculture as if it were ready-to-wear. (Think of Paris Hilton in her trucker hat.)

Both groups, meanwhile, look down on the couch-�surfing, old-clothes-wearing hipsters who seem most authentic but are also often the most socially precarious � the lower-middle-class young, moving up through style, but with no backstop of parental culture or family capital. They are the bartenders and boutique clerks who wait on their well-to-do peers and wealthy tourists. Only on the basis of their cool clothes can they be �superior�: hipster knowledge compensates for economic immobility.

All hipsters play at being the inventors or first adopters of novelties: pride comes from knowing, and deciding, what�s cool in advance of the rest of the world. Yet the habits of hatred and accusation are endemic to hipsters because they feel the weakness of everyone�s position � including their own. Proving that someone is trying desperately to boost himself instantly undoes him as an opponent. He�s a fake, while you are a natural aristocrat of taste. That�s why �He�s not for real, he�s just a hipster� is a potent insult among all the people identifiable as hipsters themselves.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2012 22:14

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

The Cleaner posted:

Just wanted to share news that us goons The Cleaner and spider_ross.avi have just released the electro-industrial album we've been working on for the past year, aptly titled "MUTRONIX".

It's the 3rd 'Volt 9000' album and it's very oHgr/Skinny Puppy/Download inspired. 11-tracks of crazy. I think many who frequent this thread would find it, in the least, amusing.

Two Soundcloud tracks below for a preview:

http://soundcloud.com/volt9000/meltdown
http://soundcloud.com/volt9000/outworld

It's out on iTunes/Amazon/CDbaby and all that junk

Wow! Great work.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2012 04:44

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

Godmachine posted:

I get that people have always been up-in-arms about which bands are industrial and which aren't. The issue is that "industrial" in it's own has never had a definitive definition. Personally, I lump NIN into industrial, but what of it? Hell, look at the first quote of the very first port of this thread. Industrial as a music genre has always been plagued by people arguing what is industrial and what isn't.

Indeed. I'm reminded of an interview Lady Gaga did with German television where she said the songs from Fame Monster were heavily inspired by listening to lots of German gothic-industrial music while touring in Europe. And there's Paula Abdul songs from the 1980s that sound more similar to early industrial than contemporary industrial does.

People should listen to music that sounds good. That's about it.

Twiin posted:

Speaking of Faderhead....

That's interesting. I think I heard it once said that anyone who calls themselves "apolitical" is almost always an extreme right-wing reactionary. Rainer also describes himself in the ID:YD interview as an Austrian patriot, which I'm guessing is an Austrian ultra-nationalist/neo-fascist. It's just that we've confused fascism to mean "Nazi" while forgetting that every country has its own domestic and particular fascisms. He might not be into Hitler but he's really into Dollfuss.

Ivan Shitskin fucked around with this message at 20:31 on May 27, 2012

# ¿ May 27, 2012 20:25

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

Throwing in some more heavier-ish sounding stuff.

Rotersand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmY8RaTVMUk

Destroid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nnn4ANPeC_g

Lead Into Gold:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws1YbZbhdl4

# ¿ May 30, 2012 04:02

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

It's really weird and depends. I'm really confused, more than anything. I can also only really speak for my local scene, which is Austin. And here I've seen audiences at shows that are almost entirely male. Other times men are a minority and just look like hipsters who wandered in, while the women are dressed up. The one gothic clothing shop in town is mainly for women, and is feminist-owned.

The scene is largely, overwhelmingly white. I don't think most of these industrial festivals like Kinetik have many non-white faces. I even encountered a white nationalist here in Austin once. (A woman, in fact.) But this also depends. There is a sizable Latino population in Texas that is mostly of Mexican descent, and industrial music may be even more popular among that demographic than for whites, maybe owing to class divisions here. The industrial scene looks to me like it appeals to largely working class and lower middle class people, who are more likely to be Latino. (I'm white, by the way.)

The largest industrial scene outside of Texas but adjacent to it is not in Louisiana, New Mexico or Oklahoma but in Mexico. And some of the main acts for a cancelled industrial festival earlier this year in Austin were to come from Mexico. (C-LEKKTOR, Amduscia.) And Mexico does have a place for more "dark" stuff in popular media. So there may be cultural reasons for its relative popularity there, but I'm wary of assigning too much because that can sometimes bleed over into sweeping and racist explanations like "Mexicans like this or that."

Ivan Shitskin fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jun 7, 2012

# ¿ Jun 7, 2012 16:22

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

Sloppy posted:

In other news, Grendel has their own energy drink!

http://www.infrarot.de/grendel/timewave-zero-energy-drink/2011354

That's brilliant. Just what I need when listening to Grendel.

(I like Grendel.)

# ¿ Jun 12, 2012 20:50

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

Twiin posted:

Obviously it was inflammatory, it's agitprop. But there's a very important distinction between calling someone a racist and saying that they're using racist imagery. I don't think Andy's a racist. I don't care if he's a racist. I care that he wears a confederate flag on the cover of magazines.

The rebuttal to "Andy's a racist" is "Andy's not a racist", and that isn't a debate that interests me. The rebuttal to "Andy is using a flag that has been flown by the confederacy, the dixiecrats and the kkk" is the one I was interested in starting a conversation about.

Agree with this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ti-gkJiXc

# ¿ Jun 12, 2012 20:54

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

I agree with some of that, but a couple of things:

quote:

Secondly, as many people have commented on before, when industrial reaches out to other genres, the exchange is generally one-way. Play The Presets at an industrial event and you�ll probably get a good reaction. Play Suicide Commando at an electro night and you�ll just get people wondering what the hell is wrong with you.

I'm not seeing this one-way reaction from the mainstream culture. Doesn't industrial music have a mainstream presence in Germany? Isn't Germany the global center of industrial music? In the United States, I've heard Front 242 STILL played in mainstream nightclubs after Usher and before Justin Timberlake. (I'm not kidding.) I hear VNV Nation played in coffeeshops next to My Bloody Valentine. Nine Inch Nails. Argh bargle.

quote:

You�ve chosen to make music catered to a scene for which one of the greatest luminaries is a guy that routinely dressed like the Egyptian god of the dead and taped raw meat to himself. If you think you�re going to achieve Tiesto levels of financial success doing industrial music no matter what it mutates into, you need a serious reality check.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46NmkGdgg94

# ¿ Jul 17, 2012 19:46

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

molotoveverything posted:

VNV Nation played in coffee shops, where you do live?

Texas, if you can believe it. I remember seeing a big VNV Nation sticker on the back of a car in El Paso once, too. Which might not be where you'd expect to see that.

I mean, they're not hugely popular or anything, but they're pretty successful for a touring act these days. Going to one of their shows feels comparable to another popular touring band. I don't know if that qualifies as mainstream success (though why not?) but it doesn't feel like being in the gothic-industrial ghetto when you go.

Edit: I posted Marilyn Manson as a response to him saying you can't be an industrial Tiesto. But it's probably important to remember that music is tough for everyone these days. Not even people who make Tiesto's style of music are ever going to be Tiesto either.

Ivan Shitskin fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Jul 18, 2012

# ¿ Jul 18, 2012 01:34

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

LabyaMynora posted:

I'm not pro-communism but at least it's an ideology that started with the idea of making people's lives better. Yeah, it spun way out of control from what Karl Marx believed in, but at least the root of the idea was meant to be positive.

Fascism was also meant to be positive. Not kidding at all. People really thought (and still do if we look for it) that fascism or the Nazi movement was going to be a really awesome thing. It had a different set of values than the communist movement, but the people behind it absolutely thought they were going to make people's lives better, or at least better the lives of their own people. (By killing lots of other people.)

Though I understand the general point. A communist symbol is a lot less shocking to me than a Dixie flag. I'm not sure why it is, and I think that maybe I should treat communist symbols as a bad thing. But my differential treatment might might come from possibly having some some sympathies for communism that I don't for fascism or Southern nationalism.

This is why I like industrial music, by the way. You can't have discussions like this about indie rock.

# ¿ Aug 4, 2012 06:47

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

I went to Kinetik this year. My brother and myself had been planning on a trip up to Montreal for a few months, and the weekend just happened to coincide with our schedules. So why not pop in for a night?

That is, we only went for the "electro" night on Sunday. So the notable bands we saw: Blutengel, S.P.O.C.K and SITD. We didn't have it in us to spend all weekend at the gothic-industrial festival, I'm afraid to say. Kinda wanted to get out and do other things in the city. And considering we have absolutely no connection to any kind of "scene" culture or anyone in it, hanging around wasn't much of a priority.

That said, there were a few notable things. One, watching the guys from Hocico at the back of the hall singing along to S.P.O.C.K's "Dr. McCoy." SITD were incredible, and I'm more looking forward to seeing them open for Icon of Coil later this year than the headliner.

Blutengel are hilarious and extremely entertaining. My feeling is that if you're going to take a ludicrous concept like vampire romance, then you should take it as far as you can possibly go. Also, the girl on the balcony shaking a strand of garlic at the stage and Chris Pohl -- completely in character -- grimacing at her. loving hilarious.

And going out for a slice of pizza across the street before SITD and having a line of riot police a few hundred feet away. Then nearly getting clocked by a thrown bottle a few minutes after that. And seeing a tear gas grenade explode further up the street. Montreal really fits a kind of bombed-out dystopian image that this kind of music represents.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2012 20:51

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

CAT rear end now!!! posted:

I unashamedly loving love Blutengel. Pohl's got a magical touch for devastating pop hooks and synth lines, and the aesthetics are just hilariously overblown. I'd love to see that poo poo live, from what I've seen it's more like a theater play than a concert.

It is. One of the downsides for them traveling outside of Europe (but who cares if they're actually now starting to play in North America, you know?) is that they didn't bring the candelabras and other props and the giant throne that shoots flames out of the top. Still, the hooks are incredible and they remain in character so well that you believe what they're selling. It's not so much watching Chris Pohl as watching this insane thousand-year-old vampire character he's constructed. Ulrike Goldmann is fantastic. Really all they need is a stage and they can go.

Speaking of that. Before coming to Kinetik they showed up on Mexican TV. They apparently have a pretty big following there. (Which also demonstrates again that Mexicans have much better taste than us in the States.) It's with playback but still surreal and worth watching if you're a fan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2IVVobD1RE

Ivan Shitskin fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Sep 1, 2012

# ¿ Aug 31, 2012 23:57

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

To make another point about all of this. Goth is pure aesthetics. That's a bit different from industrial's punk roots, with all the political messages that come packaged with that. There's really no politics whatsoever to goth, which is probably the reason why it never seems to age and seemingly comes back from the dead again and again and is immortal (see what I'm doing here). I like that and the celebration of camp for its own sake.

The other thing is bathos. Blutengel drips it. But they do bathos without it being bad. It's these super serious FLY INTO THE NIGHT WITH ME songs but it's done as conventional electro-pop, and that juxtaposition is what's so hilarious and entertaining. Anyways, I should report back from Covenant tomorrow night.

Ivan Shitskin fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Sep 1, 2012

# ¿ Sep 1, 2012 00:13

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

Amduscia were supposed to play at a festival here in Texas a few months back but they pulled out ... and then the whole thing was cancelled at the last minute. Ahhh. Anyways.

Should I see Suicide Commando? If anyone wants to say, you have about a month or so to talk me in or out of it.

Edit: Yeah they're playing in Philadelphia, Austin, Los Angeles and Denver. That looks like it. And the Austin show is on a Saturday. I guess that means I'm going.

Ivan Shitskin fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Sep 7, 2012

# ¿ Sep 7, 2012 01:18

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

quote:

http://www.infrarot.de/nachtmahr/veni-vidi-vici-elite-edition/2011733

A battle is raging in the Colosseum of the global Industrial movement. A battle for ascendancy, for power, for dominance. Above the bloody events, eyes not wavering from the battlefield, the sovereign of Imperial Industrial, the leader of an empire, stands and beholds. He observes warriors vainly trying to live up to him, he grants them their weak attempt only to point his thumb down in the end nonetheless. 'Ad bestiam' with the rivals! One envier, one hater, one impersonator after the other is thrown to the wolves while Thomas Rainer indulges the debaucheries of a decadent Roman emperor at the banquet of the victorious. And the empire trembles with veneration.

Countless opponents wanted to stop him, to enthrone him, and did everything to see him in the dirt. They ridiculed him for his vision, his boundless persuasion to build, strengthen and increase his claim to power. But that belongs to the past. Long since, they pave his way as defeated enemies, decorate the walls of his headquarter as trophies. He came, he saw, he conquered and now he leads his ultimate triumphal procession through the streets of the fallen cities. 'Veni Vidi Vici' is the name of the crusade with which Thomas Rainer is going to tear down walls, annihilate armies and bring entire empires to their knees. With him or against him this is the only option you have (edit: okay). Choose wisely whether you prefer to wade through an ocean of willing women and excessive sin or to be forgotten by history as a defeated enemy.

Nachtmahr have propagated their 'Kriegserkl�rung' (decleration of war) and deliver only one proof among many for the superiority of this club colossus with the song of the same name. And this is only the beginning: 'Tradition' with its infernal beat machinery is launched right next, 'M�tterchen Russland' is brimful of marching impact and Russian monumentalism, the slow, gripping 'Die letzten D�mme' or the all-encompassing weapon of Industrial mass destruction, 'Hoffnung' as a destructive finale turn out to be indestructible blasts of contemporary club culture. His Industrial infantry is running like a well-oiled machinery while the General of world demise assembles an intimidating arsenal of heavy weaponry under the proudly hoisted banner of Austrian Imperial Industrial that will tear every club to pieces and blow the rivals out of history like an annoying fly.

The world will burn. Inflamed by the remains of the vanquished foes, the reflection of this triumph of musical and bodily excesses mirrors a new Industrial world order, a final proof of Nachtmahr's supremacy carved in stone. In this, it is irrelevant whether the commander of this superior beat brigade sends forth quivering Industrial paroles, thundering EBM storms, marching rhythms or Noise terror: The end will always be the same, Nachtmahr will always remain standing. The opponents ears ring with it, the women whisper it adoringly: 'Veni Vidi Vici' - into all eternity.

Either this is an elaborate troll or Thomas Rainer has literally declared war on industrial music.

Ivan Shitskin fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Sep 11, 2012

# ¿ Sep 11, 2012 22:27

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

They played in Austin last night. I didn't go, but I was at the Icon of Coil show earlier in the week, and two guys who work at the club told me they were expecting a big turnout.

Something about it being on a Friday, of course, but also that the band apparently has a fairly large following in Texas. I have to think the band's aesthetic (SEX, LEATHER AND HOT RODS!) fits the culture here. But I was told several members of the band have roots in nearby San Antonio, they've played here a ton, and so a lot of people know them.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2012 20:11

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

Achtung! Panzer posted:

So it's like a musical German version of St Patrick's day?

That's more Oktoberfest. Industrial scene is that but circa 1933-1945.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2012 22:14

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

Darthemed posted:

Then there was Left Spine Down. I don't usually expect much from bands signed to Metropolis, and they basically met my expectations. The song they played before the vocalist showed up was more interesting than everything that followed. The synth player was definitely the highlight (hoping he gets to move on to a better band) but despite the lame lyrics, the vocalist was at least being energetic and trying to engage the audience, doing things ranging from running through the crowd with a flashlight, standing on people's table while singing, popping out through the front door to sing to the smokers, and snuggling up next to girls in the audience. Sadly, it was just kind of bland overall; if you're going to have a dumb name just for the initials LSD, why not sound like something inspired by LSD?
Quote from the vocalist: "Who here is ready for Thrill Kill Kult? *audience cheers * Too bad, you'll have to put up with us for another half-hour."

Then there was Thrill Kill Kult. Great video footage for the first few songs, then that faded out. They had a Sexplosion prop area set up off to the side, with a bartender in a devil mask serving one of the blonde Bomb Gang Girlz before she joined in with back-up vocals. After going through basically every hit I was hoping for (no 'Ride the Mindway', unsurprisingly) they came back onstage for an encore after the audience chanted their name for five minutes to play 'Kooler Than Jesus'.
Groovie was very cool after the show, signing stuff and posing for photos. He seemed kind of tired, but I couldn't tell whether it was from drugs, the performance, or from still being in TKK after all these years. The rest of the band vanished almost immediately after the encore, though I snagged a signature from Mimi the amazingly bored-looking bassist.

I heard a story about Thrill Kill Kult being thrown out of a goth club following a show (they played a rock club nearby) in Dallas after taking over the DJ booth and playing C&C Music Factory. And I think Groovie rolling around on the floor possibly tripping contributed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaTGrV58wec

^ This actually looks quite industrial, now that I look at it!

And Left Spine Down. Yeah. I appreciate the energy and like the image, I suppose. The music is kinda bland, (okay, "X-Ray" rocks) and I'm not sure I can think of the word except that it seems contrived. I don't have a problem with things being contrived (I listen to industrial music, for one), but it sounds like they're trying not to sound contrived while being very much that.

Also let's share witch house:

http://vlhll.bandcamp.com/album/g-s-s-of-n-qu

Ivan Shitskin fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Oct 2, 2012

# ¿ Oct 2, 2012 04:30

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# ¿ Jan 22, 2025 05:20

Ivan Shitskin: Nov 29, 2002

Darthemed posted:

I honestly couldn't decipher any of the lyrics, even when the vocalist was singing through a megaphone into the microphone, but I think I would have recognized a Joy Division bassline if it had appeared. From the 'Caution Crime Scene Do Not Cross' guitar-strap and Caution-tape videos in the background, they really seemed to be plugging their new album, which Wikipedia identifies as 'Caution'.

Does it have a Parental Advisory: Explicit Content sticker on it?

# ¿ Oct 3, 2012 02:52

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > No Music Discussion > Electro-Industrial: Military Marching to Machine Music