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savinhill
Mar 28, 2010


I remember Quick Ben's sister being in one of the books but not much about how she was described or acted, maybe details about her might clarify it either way.

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Juaguocio
Jun 5, 2005

Oh, David...


02-6611-0142-1 posted:

Just finished Stonewielder. Enjoyed it a bunch, except for Kiska. loving hell. In the first book, you could at least say "oh, she's an inexperienced idiot, that's why she doesn't know anything".

But you'd think that someone who had been a claw for many years, and the bodyguard to the most powerful mage in an enormous multicontinental empire, would know some things. Isn't she a mage herself, too? I only vaguely remember. But yeah, she encounters the Liosan and is all like "who are they guys, they look like the tiste edur and the tiste andii except instead of being grey or black they are white! I have no idea!" and then leoman says "well obviously, they're the tiste liosan, you downer." and she says "THE TISTE LIOSAN?!?! ARE THEY SOMEHOW RELATED TO THE TISTE EDUR AND ANDII?!?!?!?!" incredulously. Claws should be savvy! Wizards should be savvy! It's retarded that she is written to be so thick. She also spends the whole book saying "nobody respects me, i'm going to go out there and show them how great i am!" and then gets her rear end brutally kicked again and again, proving that everybody else was right, and she is truly useless. Why anyone would choose her for any kind of quest is utterly beyond me, unless the god in question was hoping for some kind of bumbling idiot sitcom to entertain themselves through the boredom of eternal life.

I find it's also kind of hard to remember who is who, because Esslemont's characters don't have memorable personalities like Erikson's do. Other than that though, it was cool, and I'm glad to have read it.

Kiska is just a terrible character all around. Kyle improved so much in Stonewielder that I had high hopes for her as well, but no such luck. Could have been worse, though- ICE could have brought Ghelel back.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




A Nice Boy posted:

One thing newcomers don't realize is that the first book in this series was written quite a bit before the rest of the series, as they spent a long time shopping it around and trying to get the series made. As a result, the first book is generally considered to be the weakest, and has slight inconsistencies as far as style and content go. Still, you'll be blown away how many things in the first novel come into play later, and how deeply layered the series is.

But yeah, as far as character development and such go, trust us...It gets way, way better. If you liked book one, by book three you'll be blown away.

That's good to hear. I'll definitely be checking out the next book.
As for my other point, I like magic here and there, but it's better when it's something used at crucial times and isn't just everywhere. It should be used sparingly (kinda like lightsabers in Star Wars).

Illuyankas
Oct 22, 2010



Juaguocio posted:

Ghelel
gently caress

I had almost forgotten she existed.

gently caress

LtSmash
Dec 18, 2005

Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind.

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"



Chiming in to say how awesome these books are. I somewhat envy those who have just started the series since they have so much ahead of them. I'll also repeat that the second and subsequent books show a marked improvement over the first, and that understanding grows as the books go on so don't worry overmuch if you don't quite get whats going on all the time.

Erikson has a remarkable way of turning characters around. At the end of the first book I was basically rolling my eyes every time Rake was mentioned because I thought of him as a stereotypical elf who was old beyond time with a magic sword who was also a super wizard and could turn into a dragon and save the day. Several books later you finally get his perspective and realize how little you actually knew about him and how much depth his character has.

A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

Ccs posted:

That's good to hear. I'll definitely be checking out the next book.
As for my other point, I like magic here and there, but it's better when it's something used at crucial times and isn't just everywhere. It should be used sparingly (kinda like lightsabers in Star Wars).

Meh, I feel like that's predicated on some unwritten rule or something, which does not exist. Erikson wanted a world full of magic, so that's how this world is. You can like it or not, but I think saying that "magic should be used sparingly if at all" is putting rules on imagination, in a sense, which is silly.

But don't worry about the magic thing. As many crazy rear end old badasses and mages and gods and dragons and poo poo there are, there are always mortals waiting to gently caress them up...That's not to mention that, overall, the series is really more about amazing characters and themes and plots more than the magic itself. The magic is a means to an end, but it's not the FOCUS of the story at all.

If he'd written the books just to write crazy magical porn, the series wouldn't be nearly as amazing as it is...It'd just be lovely DragonBallZ fanfiction. Give the magic a chance.

Daico
Aug 17, 2006


A Nice Boy posted:

Meh, I feel like that's predicated on some unwritten rule or something, which does not exist. Erikson wanted a world full of magic, so that's how this world is. You can like it or not, but I think saying that "magic should be used sparingly if at all" is putting rules on imagination, in a sense, which is silly.

But don't worry about the magic thing. As many crazy rear end old badasses and mages and gods and dragons and poo poo there are, there are always mortals waiting to gently caress them up...That's not to mention that, overall, the series is really more about amazing characters and themes and plots more than the magic itself. The magic is a means to an end, but it's not the FOCUS of the story at all.

If he'd written the books just to write crazy magical porn, the series wouldn't be nearly as amazing as it is...It'd just be lovely DragonBallZ fanfiction. Give the magic a chance.

Oh man: The Malazan Book of the Fallen: Give the Magic a Chance!

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.


Illuyankas posted:

The people from Seven Cities and the desert based Dal Honese have dark brown skin.
For the most part, correct. What I said is that most of the black-skinned human cast of Malazan seem to originate from 7C.

Opal
May 10, 2005

some by their splendor rival the colors of the painters, others the flame of burning sulphur or of fire quickened by oil.


A Nice Boy posted:

Meh, I feel like that's predicated on some unwritten rule or something, which does not exist. Erikson wanted a world full of magic, so that's how this world is. You can like it or not, but I think saying that "magic should be used sparingly if at all" is putting rules on imagination, in a sense, which is silly.

i don't think it's entirely fair to call an opinion he is certainly entitled to 'silly'. authosr put rules on imagination all the time and erikson isn't an exception.

it's true that either you like it or you don't and the world is the way it is but it's a valid complaint being of the opinion that magic 'should' be used sparingly.

zokie
Feb 13, 2006

Out of many, Sweden


Illuyankas posted:

The people from Seven Cities and the desert based Dal Honese have dark brown skin. The jungle based Dal Honese have almost midnight black skin. The way the marines in the Bonehunters who are that black scare the poo poo out of the Edur while they're invading Lether is a interesting throw-away fact in Reaper's Gale.

I think it's either that one of the souls in Quick is a Tiste Andii soul, or the story Whiskeyjack was told by Quick and then repeated to Rake was a slight amendment of the truth and he's an Andii disguising himself as a human like Rake did when he was a guard or soulshifted himself into another body. It'll explain how he remembers how to do it, too.

I never know when to use spoilers so I'll just assume no-one's read beyond book one at almost any given moment to be safe.

Also in one of the earlier books QB said he kept away from Rake because he could see who he really was. But it could be that he just calls Mother Dark "Mother" because it's a title or something, it seems that he gets the power to compell her from the Sceptre of Darkness or whatever...

Masonity
Dec 31, 2007

What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?


My bad on Quick. When I spoke of him having (MoI spoiler)7 souls, I got confused. It's 12 souls, 7 warrens at a time.

A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

the periodic fable posted:

i don't think it's entirely fair to call an opinion he is certainly entitled to 'silly'. authosr put rules on imagination all the time and erikson isn't an exception.

it's true that either you like it or you don't and the world is the way it is but it's a valid complaint being of the opinion that magic 'should' be used sparingly.

It seemed like he was stating it as an unwritten fact, not so much an opinion. Though, this is one of those things that happens on the internet. People stating things like fact that are, actually, opinions. My mistake.

Opal
May 10, 2005

some by their splendor rival the colors of the painters, others the flame of burning sulphur or of fire quickened by oil.


well, i personally took my cue from his starting the sentence with "I like magic here and there" but i can see how you could interpret it differently.

also, nice custom title, who did you piss off?

MrOpus
Mar 21, 2004



My copy of TCG arrived yesterday and these spoilers are driving me insane.

A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

the periodic fable posted:

well, i personally took my cue from his starting the sentence with "I like magic here and there" but i can see how you could interpret it differently.

also, nice custom title, who did you piss off?

hahaha...Awesome. I have no clue...I can't think of a single thing I've posted lately, aside from book spoilers and book corrections, aside from that last thing, which I apologized for. Certainly nothing that was worth spending 10 bucks on. Yeah, nothing but talking about books, really. I definitely haven't invoked any Something Awful/backseat moderator rules. Who knows?

Quarterroys
Jul 1, 2008



A Nice Boy posted:

hahaha...Awesome. I have no clue...I can't think of a single thing I've posted lately, aside from book spoilers and book corrections, aside from that last thing, which I apologized for. Certainly nothing that was worth spending 10 bucks on. Yeah, nothing but talking about books, really. I definitely haven't invoked any Something Awful/backseat moderator rules. Who knows?

Didn't someone gift you with your previous avatar as well? Seems like you've got a secret hater/stalker in the midst...

A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

Maybe it's Pepper. Haha. But yeah, that was certainly a wasted 10 bucks, I guess. I don't spam, I don't backseat mod, and this is basically the only thread I post in. As I said, no idea what I did to deserve it.

Ok, just finished TCG. Questions, as always:

Can someone who thinks they have a good handle on the ending explain the entire Crippled God/Heboric/Cotillion thing? I understand that Heboric had touched both sides, Otataral and the Jade, linking the healing the world wanted to do with the poison of the Crippled God. I'm not sure why Cotillion stabbed him in the back? That entire scene, while awesome, was a bit confusing.

Also, holy poo poo...That ending. Definitely worth waiting for, but I wish there were more. The Crippled God being the one to write the Book of the Fallen...How, once again, Erikson turns convention on its head and makes you care for the bad guy...We've hated and thought TCG was the main antagonist for book after book, and now we feel for him.


Great stuff. Can't wait for more people to finish it so there are more opinions to discuss.

Illuyankas
Oct 22, 2010



A Nice Boy posted:

Ok, just finished TCG. Questions, as always:

Can someone who thinks they have a good handle on the ending explain the entire Crippled God/Heboric/Cotillion thing? I understand that Heboric had touched both sides, Otataral and the Jade, linking the healing the world wanted to do with the poison of the Crippled God. I'm not sure why Cotillion stabbed him in the back? That entire scene, while awesome, was a bit confusing.
Cots stabbed him in the back because as he was, manifested in the flesh like Hood in TTH, he couldn't go home. Killing his body allowed his godly soul to go free, so it was transported up to his followers aboard/comprising the Big Green Short Bus jade statues and he went home. I did not have Poochy flashbacks following that sentence.

A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

Oh, brilliant, can't believe I didn't get that. That asked, I think this ending was way less confusing than some of his other ones. As I said, great stuff...So many crazy emotional moments at the end, I felt almost exausted after reading it. In a good way.

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005

SNITCH


Just finished TCG. Ending spoilers below.

I really cannot overstate how happy I was that Fiddler made it through. I spent most of the book getting ready to cry like a baby at what I thought would be an inevitable death for him (especially once the body count started to rise. Gesler and Stormy, Mappo .) "DUD!" was probably the most relaxing line I have ever read in this series.

Also, Apsalar and Crokus

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



Finished The Crippled God last weekend, and while I enjoyed, there are a couple of things that prevent it from being a fantastic ending for this series. At least for me.

First off Erikson kinda forgets about Draconus and the Errant half way through. I was hoping that the Errant would get owned at some time. But no...he literally walks away from the book. Yeah there's that Oppon stuff but I wanted to see it!
Draconus the same thing, he just gets forgotten after he owns Kilmandaros and Knuckles.


The other annoying part was the Perish. What a huge waste of page really. They just go round and round. While it makes sense in some sort of thematic level, story wise it's just a bore. I think it would have a more strong emotion behind it, if it were the Toc Grey Swords. But that would mean re-writer everything since RG.

Also bringing Hetan back after that traumatic moment, was not the best of decisions.

Either way, I enjoyed it and in the end there's more good stuff than bad, it's just the bad stuff are really off for me in this point of the series. Now I eagerly wait for more Malazan books by both authors. Last I heard ICE is trying to get his new book out still this year.

Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Mar 4, 2011

Masonity
Dec 31, 2007

What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?


A Nice Boy posted:

Oh, brilliant, can't believe I didn't get that. That asked, I think this ending was way less confusing than some of his other ones. As I said, great stuff...So many crazy emotional moments at the end, I felt almost exausted after reading it. In a good way.


BEst thing is, that explanation is the spoiler I forgot to spoil that you read.

And still didn't get it! :')

A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

Masonity posted:

BEst thing is, that explanation is the spoiler I forgot to spoil that you read.

And still didn't get it! :')

Heh I didn't read the whole thing, luckily...My spidey sense started tingling about four words in and I scrolled my mouse downward in a girly manner to avoid having anything ruined.

Teenagers
Sep 5, 2007

hail satan

Started reading tCG, gave up after the first couple of chapters because I couldn't remember who the gently caress I was reading about. I'm not really into fantasy or w/e, but this series is rad.

Masonity
Dec 31, 2007

What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?


Teenagers posted:

Started reading tCG, gave up after the first couple of chapters because I couldn't remember who the gently caress I was reading about. I'm not really into fantasy or w/e, but this series is rad.

o.O It's only been just over a year since the last book. In fact, there have never been any huge gaps.

I can understand not remembering the odd name, but you really couldn't remember lots of the people in the beginning of The Crippled God?

Opal
May 10, 2005

some by their splendor rival the colors of the painters, others the flame of burning sulphur or of fire quickened by oil.


i had the same feeling actually starting out on TCG. i dunno, in order to care about characters i really need to remember what they're about and their storyline and erikson is juggling SO MANY by the end of this series that it's hard to keep track of them all.

Daico
Aug 17, 2006


TCG Spoiler Heh heh, Hood turning up and eating Equity. "I have never much liked Forkrul Assail."

That said, was that foreshadowed or mentioned at all and I missed it?

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.


Daico posted:

TCG Spoiler Heh heh, Hood turning up and eating Equity. "I have never much liked Forkrul Assail."

That said, was that foreshadowed or mentioned at all and I missed it?


I just read that bit this morning - hilarious. I pictured him making "nom nom nom" noises. Possibly not quite what Erikson had intended.

Tooter
Nov 12, 2003



zokie posted:

Also in one of the earlier books QB said he kept away from Rake because he could see who he really was. But it could be that he just calls Mother Dark "Mother" because it's a title or something, it seems that he gets the power to compell her from the Sceptre of Darkness or whatever...


I think this was more with regards to Rake being able to see that he had more than himself residing in his body. Not necessarily Andii blood, just that he wasn't a normal guy with one soul.

edit: Does anyone else feel like they're reading some redacted CIA brief or something every time they come to this thread? Even regarding stuff that happened in books half a decade old.

Daico
Aug 17, 2006


Tooter posted:

I think this was more with regards to Rake being able to see that he had more than himself residing in his body. Not necessarily Andii blood, just that he wasn't a normal guy with one soul.

edit: Does anyone else feel like they're reading some redacted CIA brief or something every time they come to this thread? Even regarding stuff that happened in books half a decade old.

Well yeah, but even in the last page or two we've had people comment that they're just starting the series.

Though new thread title: The Malazan Book of the [Redacted]

Opal
May 10, 2005

some by their splendor rival the colors of the painters, others the flame of burning sulphur or of fire quickened by oil.


hahaha holy poo poo [Redacted], we should have thought of that earlier, it's literally the best thread title for this series

zokie
Feb 13, 2006

Out of many, Sweden


Tooter posted:

I think this was more with regards to Rake being able to see that he had more than himself residing in his body. Not necessarily Andii blood, just that he wasn't a normal guy with one soul.

edit: Does anyone else feel like they're reading some redacted CIA brief or something every time they come to this thread? Even regarding stuff that happened in books half a decade old.

Still the dude does have the Sceptre of Darkness. Re-reading the scene (p.59-60 in my book) where he re-appears, I get the crazy theory of him being the creation of Draconus and Mother Dark taking souls chained within Dragnipur and chaining them to one body. With the chains and him telling the 'Mother' she could/should have kept him as a child...

Sil
Jan 4, 2007


the periodic fable posted:

i had the same feeling actually starting out on TCG. i dunno, in order to care about characters i really need to remember what they're about and their storyline and erikson is juggling SO MANY by the end of this series that it's hard to keep track of them all.

The main thing I struggle with are the minor Bonehunters. Lots of those characters were just not as memorable as the BB's where way back when, but they were still cool enough to make me regret not remembering them properly.

Doctor Teeth
Sep 11, 2008



Ok I just spoiled myself on something. I'm just to the point in GotM where K'rul tells Kruppe that Rake has came to Dharujistan. A friend of mine told me that the list of characters on wikipedia wasn't very spoilery and that it was safe to look up who a character was there. None of it seemed too spoilery since I've barely started the series, but I accidentally moused over the link to Dancer's individual page. How big of plot point did I just spoil?

I should have known better but he's usually right about that kind thing and he isn't the type to intentionally spoil things. I don't care too much though. Having a plot point revealed doesn't diminish my enjoyment of the buildup.





Anyway, I had a false start back in August because I was too swamped at work to really keep track of what was going on. I started about a week ago and I'm really enjoying it so far. If the rest of the series is way better than GotM, I'm in for a treat.

02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



That isn't too bad. It's hinted at subtly in the first book, and outright explained in the second one.

Doctor Teeth
Sep 11, 2008



02-6611-0142-1 posted:

That isn't too bad. It's hinted at subtly in the first book, and outright explained in the second one.

Oh thats good. Can I assume that Ammanas is Kellanved as well? Just seems logical.


That actually makes me more excited for the series as a whole that something like that isn't that big of a deal. I can't wait.

Tooter
Nov 12, 2003



Daico posted:

Well yeah, but even in the last page or two we've had people comment that they're just starting the series.

Though new thread title: The Malazan Book of the [Redacted]

Yeah, I totally understand. I started the books 2 months ago because of this thread. Prior to that I had never even heard of them. I also spoil things for myself all the time. If I see a black box I have to mouse over and see what it says, it's like telling me not to look down. This thread just sticks to the spoiler tags unlike any other I've been in. I think the Wheel of Time thread had a month long redaction period after the last book came out and then once it was lifted no black boxes anywhere.
Kudos to you all for sticking to it

Decius
Oct 14, 2005



Ramrod XTreme

Doctor Teeth posted:

Oh thats good. Can I assume that Ammanas is Kellanved as well? Just seems logical.

Yes. The Old Guard (Kellavend and his pirate friends, who founded the Empire) is pretty important for the whole series.

Masonity
Dec 31, 2007

What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?


Tooter posted:

Yeah, I totally understand. I started the books 2 months ago because of this thread. Prior to that I had never even heard of them. I also spoil things for myself all the time. If I see a black box I have to mouse over and see what it says, it's like telling me not to look down. This thread just sticks to the spoiler tags unlike any other I've been in. I think the Wheel of Time thread had a month long redaction period after the last book came out and then once it was lifted no black boxes anywhere.
Kudos to you all for sticking to it

The thing is, most Wheel of Time readers are caught up with the series. It's out there. Everyone knows it.

Malazan is still a well kept secret in some parts of the world though. Here in the UK it's semi-big news (below Martin or Pratchet, and a million miles below Rowling in terms of coverage, but equal or above the rest) when a new one comes out. Even here though, there are still plenty of fans that haven't read the series.

On top of that, I'm reading Wheel of Time now myself. I gave up on it when I was a teenager, so decided to actually start again and catch up 10 years later and see how it panned out. I can probably predict 80% of the book after the first few chapters. There's certainly no question of who's good and who's bad. There isn't, in truth, much worth spoiling. The Malazan world, however, is just... Realistic. Meet an utter rear end in a top hat and he may be a future big bad. Or he may just be having a bad day, and be a future sympathetic character, or hero. Or it may even be that the point of view you are following just dislikes him for some reason. Keeping it fairly unspoilerish, a good example would be Anomander Rake. At first glance, he's definitely being set up to be the series badguy. And if this was Wheel of Malazan, he would have been.

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A Nice Boy
Feb 13, 2007

First in, last out.

Masonity posted:

The thing is, most Wheel of Time readers are caught up with the series. It's out there. Everyone knows it.

Malazan is still a well kept secret in some parts of the world though. Here in the UK it's semi-big news (below Martin or Pratchet, and a million miles below Rowling in terms of coverage, but equal or above the rest) when a new one comes out. Even here though, there are still plenty of fans that haven't read the series.



Exactly right. Unlike WoT or ASoIaF, new readers are discovering the Malazan books all the time. They're more popular than they were when the old thread was started, but they're still not nearly on the level of those well known series. We get new readers at least once a week coming to the thread asking questions about early books.

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