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Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



Wolfsheim posted:

I just finished TCG, and now a new series is coming out

I...liked it. I don't know if the series' end ever approaches anything as truly great as the run of books 2-5 but it wraps up well enough. It's funny how overall happy an ending everybody gets based on how miserable the journey is sometimes but it's fine, I like them all and I like that it ends the same way it began (in Malaz City with a Bridgeburner chilling and a weather vane creaking) and I like that the future sword raptors and now-not-undead cavemen shamans carved out a semi-peaceful existence and all of that. It's strange how incidental to the plot Icarium ended up being, and how Cutter/Apsalar are just entirely absent from it outside of a page. Also, I assume Silverfox's situation is relevant to the ICE series?

TCG spoilers: Icarium is such a great red-herring that I almost wish he didn't do his weird Warren re-engineering thing. Partly because I didn't understand wtf actually happened. But also I like that he's chekovs nuke wandering around and everybody really hopes he doesn't go off, and the Warren stuff just gets in the way.

And yeah, Mock's Vane is a nice piece of coming full circle, but did you spot the loving turnips?

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Gravity Cant Apple
Jun 25, 2011

guys its just like if you had an apple with a straw n you poked the apple though wit it n a pebbl hadnt dropped through itd stop straw insid the apple because gravity cant apple


ICE: Silverfox does show back up in the ICE books, but it's in one of the worse ones. I'd still say the ICE Malazan Empire books are worth reading because of all of the important poo poo that happens in them that's just referred to in the BotF, but be prepared for a dip in quality. His Path to Ascendancy books are much better in comparison

Spermy Smurf
Jul 2, 2004


Gravity Cant Apple posted:

ICE: His Path to Ascendancy books are much better in comparison

They're fanfic. I read all 3 of them in an afternoon. I wish they hadn't ever been written.

Gravity Cant Apple
Jun 25, 2011

guys its just like if you had an apple with a straw n you poked the apple though wit it n a pebbl hadnt dropped through itd stop straw insid the apple because gravity cant apple


Still better than the Malazan Empire books, if only because of the more limited perspective.

kingturnip
Apr 18, 2008


It's been a while, but I finally got one of the pieces of the 'final battle' puzzle.
[spoilers for Reapers Gale onwards]


Fener rocks up in Lether and has a chat with Errastas who agrees to shield him from the voices of his (Fener's) followers.
During the final battle, Stormy & Gesler are swearing left, right and centre as they always do. Nothing bad so far, until Draconus merks Errastas. All of a sudden, Stormy & Gesler - adherents of Fener and basically ascendants - are actually calling out to Fener when they're swearing and he's no longer shielded from them. He is basically summoned to the battlefield, just in time for Karsa to smash his idol. The timing on that last part is awfully convenient, but I'm glad the rest of it occurred to me. I was always "Why the gently caress is he there?" when this mountain-sized boar appeared during the battle.


I'm prepared to be very wrong about that, of course.

Guyver
Dec 5, 2006



Yeah Silverfox's story line gets wrapped up in Assail. I found it incredibly unsatisfying.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

So I went and finished Night of Knives in a few days and....yep. The Dassem Ultor stuff is interesting at least? Do Temper and Kiska come back later? It felt like I was reading a prologue more than an actual novel.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012






Buglord

Wolfsheim posted:

So I went and finished Night of Knives in a few days and....yep. The Dassem Ultor stuff is interesting at least? Do Temper and Kiska come back later? It felt like I was reading a prologue more than an actual novel.
They both make appearances in MBotF.

Not like huge ones, but I'd call them cameos for sure.

Gravity Cant Apple
Jun 25, 2011

guys its just like if you had an apple with a straw n you poked the apple though wit it n a pebbl hadnt dropped through itd stop straw insid the apple because gravity cant apple


They both come back in later ICE books

Jaxyon
Mar 6, 2016
boring as hell and also can be low-key racist

dwarf74 posted:

They both make appearances in MBotF.

Not like huge ones, but I'd call them cameos for sure.

They get like one line and it's still better than their characterization in ICE books.

kingturnip
Apr 18, 2008


On the latest 10 Very Big Books, Erikson confirms that Kenyll'rah and Kenryll'ah only exist as different species of demon because of a typo. lol

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






kingturnip posted:

On the latest 10 Very Big Books, Erikson confirms that Kenyll'rah and Kenryll'ah only exist as different species of demon because of a typo. lol

It's honestly impressive that aren't any more t'ypos.

Dalmuti
Apr 7, 2007


toe the younger

Canuckistan
Jan 14, 2004

I'm the greatest thing since World War III.







Soiled Meat

Dalmuti posted:

toe the younger

My first read through was with some OCR PDF and it was always Toe the Younger. I always thought it was odd but not terribly odd considering the other names.

Barreft
Jul 21, 2014

A stallion like me only comes around once a year.

kingturnip posted:

On the latest 10 Very Big Books, Erikson confirms that Kenyll'rah and Kenryll'ah only exist as different species of demon because of a typo. lol

Can anyone help me here? I read the series and I'm blanking here. I really need to reread.

Jaxyon
Mar 6, 2016
boring as hell and also can be low-key racist

Barreft posted:

Can anyone help me here? I read the series and I'm blanking here. I really need to reread.

It's implied that one is the average citizen of the demon realm and one is the ruling class.

I like that he openly scoffs at the idea of consistent worldbuilding yet still has written a bunch of brick sized genre work that is still very readable.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012






Buglord

I didn't know this podcast exists. Sweet, that'll be fun.

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



kingturnip posted:

On the latest 10 Very Big Books, Erikson confirms that Kenyll'rah and Kenryll'ah only exist as different species of demon because of a typo. lol

I love that for all his pretentiousness he's not above doing/admitting to dumb stuff like this. LIke how his explanation for the Karsa vs K'Chain wrestling match was "i wanted a badass fightscene"

pile of brown
Dec 31, 2004


It's the SG-1 of fantasy novels and I'm here for it

OneSizeFitsAll
Sep 13, 2010

Du bist mein Sofa


Strom Cuzewon posted:

I love that for all his pretentiousness he's not above doing/admitting to dumb stuff like this. LIke how his explanation for the Karsa vs K'Chain wrestling match was "i wanted a badass fightscene"

To his credit, Erikson is very conscious of including pay-offs for the reader, in the form of epic or satisfying confrontations, whether involving combat or not. He respects that his readers read his dense, sometimes confusing work with the expectation that it ultimately will yield dramatically satisfying moments, and endeavours to provide that, while still sticking to his creative guns and avoiding spoon feeding and the like. The stucture of his books - with convergence of big powers and major players playing a big role both on a micro (per-book basis) and macro (overall in the series) level - does lead into this quite nicely, of course.

dishwasherlove
Nov 26, 2007

The ultimate fusion of man and machine.



Gonna post this here because not everyone has Facebook. Erikson posts some good stuff on his, even though directly interacting with his fanbase on social media seems to have had mixed results for him recently.

"Turns out Walk in Shadow begins with a poem:

Gallan’s Confession

There will be peace.
There will be justice.
There will be truth.
Such laudable assertions.
But consider the caveats.
By this and with that,
my conscience
will be at peace.
By this blade and
by my righteousness,
there will be justice.
By my eye, by my will,
by my fierce proclamation,
there will be truth.
Vows are nothing without power.
I am the tyrant of my own soul.
You, dear friend, are the same.
We rule from strength and we
rule from weakness.
We array our defences.
We launch our assaults.
We stumble across a blasted landscape
littered with the wailing mayhem
of our thoughts, fears, hopes,
desires and dreads.
We walk a bounteous garden
and feel no better than imposters,
interlopers soon to be found out,
driven away by our host of secret
(not-so-secret) crimes.
Do you trust your inner world?
You’d be a fool to do so.
The voice in our head
offers naught but an endless argument,
employing every trick of debate
– honourable and dishonourable –
and sly misdirection,
deflection and evasion.
It is the master of the lie,
the mistress of delusion,
the lord and lady of pretend.
It is the wounded child
and the bitter old man.
It is whatever it needs to be
to win the argument.
But this voice.
It does not belong to your soul.
It escaped that blessed womb long ago,
fled all familiarity,
and would make of its new
soulless world
something perfect.
Something at peace.
Something bright with justice.
Something bold with truth.
If only the world would oblige.
The soul knows better.
But we stopped listening
long ago and besides,
its cry is less than faint
with the distance within us.
When the last tyrant falls
(the one within you),
there will be peace.
When the last army
casts aside its weapons,
there will be justice.
When the last voice falls silent,
there will be truth.
The soul knows this.
It has always known this.
Now, let us watch a world
tear itself apart,
in search of a soul
it never heeded in the first place.
And let this,
in all righteous manner,
be the final tale,
spun into one by a single voice.
I am the hand reaching down.
I am the flawed eye,
the untended soul.
Uneven in intellect
yet measured askance.
I am the walker of worlds,
the maker of lies,
where every truth
hides in disguise,
and the mirror,
forever turned inward,
becomes a ruthless palette.
K’rul chooses to bleed
hot and bitter gifts,
and I am with him.
Draconus builds his monuments to love,
and I wander within them,
every footfall
unanswered echoing.
Anomander begins his tortured path
of errors as into his wake I go,
judgement mute and eyes unblinking.
Hood marches on death,
proof that pride is the last
warrior to fall, and I shall
kneel in his shadow.
Kallor – ah, Kallor,
leave him to his single witness,
but me you will find,
there in the swirling winds
of ash and dust.
Consider this.
I am in the last moments of living,
be they a handful of breaths
or a scattering of years.
The span matters not.
This is where even fools
must turn around,
discard the dissembling self-comforts,
and gauge well the fallow’d ground
of a life lived and nearly lived out.
It is a bitter measure,
but the taste upon my tongue
is not unexpected.
There are hunters afoot.
My crime is to have
eluded them for this long.
My audacity is this armour of integrity,
shattered ‘round my feet.
I see a way ahead now,
into the mists.
To be seen and then unseen
proves an invitation most welcome.
The time has come,
dear listener,
to walk in shadow.

Fisher kel Tath"

neurotech
Apr 22, 2004

Deep in my dreams and I still hear her callin'
If you're alone, I'll come home.



dishwasherlove posted:

...even though directly interacting with his fanbase on social media seems to have had mixed results for him recently.

What happened?

Jaxyon
Mar 6, 2016
boring as hell and also can be low-key racist

neurotech posted:

What happened?

I'm still reading up on it but it appears to have started, unsurprisingly, with a dudebro explaining how they hated Felisin.

Which seems to really hurt Erikson every time he encounters it but isn't surprising given the epic fantasy fandom.

dishwasherlove
Nov 26, 2007

The ultimate fusion of man and machine.



Nothing major but he seemed to be dedicating a lot of time watching YouTube analysis videos and engaging directly with the creators and reposting them on his feed, and directly engaging in good faith with comments. You can't do that forever.

pile of brown
Dec 31, 2004


That sounds infinitely exhausting

Jaxyon
Mar 6, 2016
boring as hell and also can be low-key racist

pile of brown posted:

That sounds infinitely exhausting

Yeah I think he was naive to the idea that people will spend more time being hateful willfully ignorant shits than he can commit to being thoughtful and earnest.

He learned the hard way.

Gravity Cant Apple
Jun 25, 2011

guys its just like if you had an apple with a straw n you poked the apple though wit it n a pebbl hadnt dropped through itd stop straw insid the apple because gravity cant apple


I heard it was from some chick who posted on Youtube about how she was stopping reading Malazan after one book because Erikson is a sexist/misogynist. This was because of some cherry-picked passages that were sent to her about Felisin and I assume the hobbling based on the book people said the passage was from. I didn't want to watch the video to verify and give her views but the comments on the video were taking her to task for that.

Jaxyon
Mar 6, 2016
boring as hell and also can be low-key racist

Gravity Cant Apple posted:

I heard it was from some chick who posted on Youtube about how she was stopping reading Malazan after one book because Erikson is a sexist/misogynist. This was because of some cherry-picked passages that were sent to her about Felisin and I assume the hobbling based on the book people said the passage was from. I didn't want to watch the video to verify and give her views but the comments on the video were taking her to task for that.

Here's some discussion of it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Malazan/comments/mg4r56/really_happy_seeing_erikson_engage_so_much_lately/gsz6u0z/

It sounds like a reader got mad about someone saying their Felisin hot-take might have been sexist, which is a super common thing in the fandom. And that someone was the author, so they decided to start drama and the author was like "I don't have time for this".

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



A lot of his defences are very "you just didn't get what I was trying to do" though. He's really hung up on Fantasy being taken seriously as Serious and Important Literature. Which is definitely an admirable goal, but I think he comes off as very up himself in writing sometimes. (I don't think he's actually especially up himself, from what I've seen of him talking, and his willingness to engage with fans, he seems pretty chill and self-aware)


OneSizeFitsAll posted:

To his credit, Erikson is very conscious of including pay-offs for the reader, in the form of epic or satisfying confrontations, whether involving combat or not. He respects that his readers read his dense, sometimes confusing work with the expectation that it ultimately will yield dramatically satisfying moments, and endeavours to provide that, while still sticking to his creative guns and avoiding spoon feeding and the like. The stucture of his books - with convergence of big powers and major players playing a big role both on a micro (per-book basis) and macro (overall in the series) level - does lead into this quite nicely, of course.

I do like how conceptually bonkers Toll the Hounds is. 90% slow brooding drama about grief, 10% Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny.

Jaxyon
Mar 6, 2016
boring as hell and also can be low-key racist

Strom Cuzewon posted:

A lot of his defences are very "you just didn't get what I was trying to do" though. He's really hung up on Fantasy being taken seriously as Serious and Important Literature. Which is definitely an admirable goal, but I think he comes off as very up himself in writing sometimes. (I don't think he's actually especially up himself, from what I've seen of him talking, and his willingness to engage with fans, he seems pretty chill and self-aware)


Oh I agree he thinks he's Very Smart, and sometimes he is, but sometime he's just huffing his farts. I definitely get annoyed at (mainly) misogynist fans who don't get the point of Felisin(elder or younger), though.

quote:

I do like how conceptually bonkers Toll the Hounds is. 90% slow brooding drama about grief, 10% Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny.

Probably the worst in the series. I just reread this and it was really poorly paced IMO

Cardiac
Aug 28, 2012



Jaxyon posted:

Oh I agree he thinks he's Very Smart, and sometimes he is, but sometime he's just huffing his farts.

Those things are not mutually exclusive.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

Jaxyon posted:

Probably the worst in the series. I just reread this and it was really poorly paced IMO

Heh, I thought TtH was even better on reread because you get to spend time kind of savoring everyone mostly just hanging out in the city.

Reaper's Gale was the hard one to get through the second time, because so much of if is you knowing who will be important and who won't be and unlike the kind of slow and steady rise to an insane high stakes conclusion it has this start and stop momentum that just wears you down. That book also seems to suffer the biggest curse of "here's fifty POV characters but forty of them are extremely incidental and won't do much other than die badly" in the whole series.

Of course, I've only read books 9-10 once so I don't know how well they fare on re-read either.

Jaxyon
Mar 6, 2016
boring as hell and also can be low-key racist

Cardiac posted:

Those things are not mutually exclusive.

Oh I know.

Gravity Cant Apple
Jun 25, 2011

guys its just like if you had an apple with a straw n you poked the apple though wit it n a pebbl hadnt dropped through itd stop straw insid the apple because gravity cant apple


I miss his stories he used to post about various digs he went on, he hasn't posted one in awhile.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Reaper's Gale is, even by malazan standards, an endless slog of misery.

Dalmuti
Apr 7, 2007


all the helian bits are a romp

Ben Nerevarine
Apr 14, 2006

That Old Ash Magic


I love that bawdy drunken arachnophobe

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Dalmuti posted:

all the helian bits are a romp

I really liked how she secured the hearts and minds of the population of Lether by killing the money lenders.

Dalmuti
Apr 7, 2007


thats fuckin praxis, mate

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Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

Dalmuti posted:

all the helian bits are a romp

people love beak but hellian carries that book

easily a top three character imho

I love that one book that ends with her replacement back on Kartool who absolutely loves spiders

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