|
Infinite Karma posted:It would be fantastic, but I anticipate them and the Forkrul Assail not really being included. Some of the main series quotes make it sound like they already did their thing and went away before the Tiste were around (plus Erikson hasn't really been keen on expanding the scope of Kharkanas). On the other hand, MT starts with Scarabandaris and Silchas fighting versus the Che Malle for which there should be reasons. There are also mentions of the Che Malle in FoD.
|
# ? Aug 3, 2020 19:52 |
|
|
# ? Apr 26, 2024 23:49 |
|
Hit a wall in the start of Toll the Hounds, similar to how I tossed Midnight Tides wayward for a few months because of the first few hundred rambling pages. A few weeks (a month+?) ago an acquaintance said she was already reading the same book and stuck in the middle because Clip was so insufferable as a character. So I have that to look forward to once I get past this hump of establishing the new state of the world.
|
# ? Aug 3, 2020 20:56 |
|
Eh I had a similar experience The Bonehunters but dropped it for like almost a year before finishing it. I think the siege Y ghatan the beginning was good but I didn't really like the bonehunters journey out of the depths even though they tried to make it interesting. Karsa and Icarium are my favorite characters, their arcs were also shight in that book. As someone who is up to Reapers Gale, my ranking order would be Midnight Tides > House of Chains > Deadhouse Gates > Memories of Ice > Gardens of The Moon > Bonehunters. It's funny cause I loved the beginning of Bonehunters and hated that of Midnight Tides but as you read them the quality of their stories went in opposite direction from their starts.
|
# ? Aug 4, 2020 03:39 |
Andrigaar posted:Hit a wall in the start of Toll the Hounds, similar to how I tossed Midnight Tides wayward for a few months because of the first few hundred rambling pages. Toll the Hounds is by far the worst book In the series.
|
|
# ? Aug 4, 2020 12:26 |
|
I just finished Esselmonts trilogy, Path to Ascendancy. Dancers Lament, Deadhouse Landing, and Kellanveds Reach. That was uhh... sure was something. Esselmont did pretty well with one of his past books (Jakarta maybe?) but these were just fanfic. It reminded me of the Drizz't novels I used to read when I was a kid. Just very light fluff, unstoppable plot armor, and no real depth of characters or plot. Am I alone?
|
# ? Aug 4, 2020 15:28 |
Spermy Smurf posted:Am I alone? It's funny because IIRC he was the one who played him in the RPG campaigns but ICE just doesn't write a good Kellanved. e: Alhazred posted:Toll the Hounds is by far the worst book In the series. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Aug 4, 2020 |
|
# ? Aug 4, 2020 16:07 |
|
anilEhilated posted:but ICE just doesn't write a good Kellanved. Yeah, ICE goes for 'wacky, bumbling Kellanved'. Erikson goes for 'crazy uncle Kellanved'. Similar, but Erikson's take leaves room for Kellanved to be outright sadistic as well as somewhat compassionate at times. That said, the Path to Ascendancy books are about Dancer more than Kellanved. That doesn't excuse the fact that basically no relationship-building actually happens within the books - I don't think there's a single point in the three books that shows me why Dancer would actually consider Kellanved a friend.
|
# ? Aug 4, 2020 17:34 |
|
After reading the series again, my opinion of Bonehunters went up. However Toll the Hounds is still the bottom, despite enjoying the Kharkanas series so far.
|
# ? Aug 5, 2020 02:06 |
|
Alhazred posted:Toll the Hounds is by far the worst book In the series. It is much much better on a re-read, when you know what the book is trying to do and why it is the way it is. The andii kids parts still drag though.
|
# ? Aug 5, 2020 02:29 |
|
vmdvr posted:It is much much better on a re-read, when you know what the book is trying to do and why it is the way it is. Can't remember when this spoiler happens,I think it's after Toll, but also much easier when you know Clip is gonna get hosed on.
|
# ? Aug 5, 2020 05:51 |
|
Hand Row posted:After reading the series again, my opinion of Bonehunters went up. However Toll the Hounds is still the bottom, despite enjoying the Kharkanas series so far. Maybe that will happen to me if I reread the series but as of now it is my least favorite although I haven't read Toll The Hounds yet. I really liked the contrast of the full Lethierii capitalism and the more traditional hunterer/gatherer tribe society of the Edur in Midnight Tides. But Erikson did something brilliant. In Midnight Tides, Erikson should how different they are and they were opposing forces. Now to see the two cultures mesh together in Reaper's Gale is fascinating. Were they so different after all? Some of just the conversations between Edur overseers and Letherii generals is so fascinating. Also I just got to the part where Toc is back and I totally forgot what was the deal with him. I knew he had some deal with the wolf god in Memories of Ice and he was traveling with Lady Envy I think.
|
# ? Aug 10, 2020 01:43 |
|
Toll the Hounds is probably the worst book overall, but I really love the ending of it. All the little deaths caused by Hood manifesting. Spinnock Durav holding back Kallor at the Crossroads and the whole “Do you curse me, High King?“ thing. Endest Silann holding back the Dying God by sheer willpower. Rake killing Hood and being slain in turn by Dassem Ultor. Seerdomin’s stand in front of the Redeemer. Pretty much everything in the back 20% of the book is great, so it’s a shame the rest of it is so slow.
|
# ? Aug 10, 2020 02:06 |
|
Ok just got to the part in Reaper's Gale where the champions have arrived to port. Icarium's entrance is so loving cool. There is a earthquake the moment he steps on ground. Meanwhile Karsa's first words upon landing is that he will burn the city and kill it's gods. I love these guys.
|
# ? Aug 11, 2020 22:37 |
|
Khizan posted:Toll the Hounds is probably the worst book overall, but I really love the ending of it. All the little deaths caused by Hood manifesting. Spinnock Durav holding back Kallor at the Crossroads and the whole “Do you curse me, High King?“ thing. Endest Silann holding back the Dying God by sheer willpower. Rake killing Hood and being slain in turn by Dassem Ultor. Seerdomin’s stand in front of the Redeemer. Pretty much everything in the back 20% of the book is great, so it’s a shame the rest of it is so slow. The little deaths are one of my favorite things in the entire series. They remind if a similar passage in "The Stand" by Stephen King
|
# ? Aug 12, 2020 00:36 |
|
kingturnip posted:Yeah, ICE goes for 'wacky, bumbling Kellanved'. I never picked up that Dancer and Kellanved were supposed to be friends. Seems like they were initially allies of convenience, and that worked out for them, so they stuck with it despite not being 'friends'.
|
# ? Sep 1, 2020 21:26 |
|
You're missing out on some pretty good writing if you're not following Erikson on Facebook. From a post today quote:Confessions from the Golden Age
|
# ? Sep 3, 2020 22:23 |
|
Ok, that is pretty good
|
# ? Sep 4, 2020 01:36 |
|
Check out this copy of gardens someone had custom printed: http://curiousking.co.uk/2020/09/20/first-project/?fbclid=IwAR1e-_8Bp2OdB09gYrrjZ0wbRIYVVx_ZpEgQRAbx32nQICSK0vRKbxk0_xE Remade the layout himself, commissioned art, had it printed and bound. Crazy!
|
# ? Sep 24, 2020 19:10 |
|
That hound is way too loving small
|
# ? Sep 24, 2020 21:00 |
|
Fuzzy Mammal posted:Check out this copy of gardens someone had custom printed: http://curiousking.co.uk/2020/09/20/first-project/?fbclid=IwAR1e-_8Bp2OdB09gYrrjZ0wbRIYVVx_ZpEgQRAbx32nQICSK0vRKbxk0_xE That is badass
|
# ? Oct 6, 2020 02:18 |
|
Sign me up for one. Those are really cool and elegant looking.
|
# ? Oct 6, 2020 03:55 |
|
Two or three days ago I finally read the last few pages of Toll the Hounds. As I've said a few times now to friends, I'm still not sure the final jampacked ~200 pages were justified by the preceding ~1000 pages, but in the end, the book was definitely a book that I mostly (51%+) enjoyed. Also was glad that characters swore a lot instead of "[Main cast character] quietly cursed under their breath." Tried immediately diving into Dust of Dreams, but the prologue NPC is such a Debbie Downer that I think I made it 20 pages in before deciding to try again the next day. Also the amount of living, undead, and rebirthed characters is now so large that I want a roster sheet with physical description notes and previous jobs.
|
# ? Oct 15, 2020 07:26 |
|
Andrigaar posted:Also the amount of living, undead, and rebirthed characters is now so large that I want a roster sheet with physical description notes and previous jobs. The wiki has all of that.
|
# ? Oct 16, 2020 00:05 |
|
anilEhilated posted:The Liosan play a big part in the final two books. L'oric I don't remember being mentioned again. Osric shows up a couple times in ICE books but it's never very interesting. Trip report: I am almost finished re-reading Bonehunters and L'oric does show up again, but only to begrudgingly assist Leoman escape the burning city, then to survey the aftermath of the attack on Cutter & co., lecture Scillara about motherhood, collect his pet demon then leave. Bonehunters is a weird novel. Outside of the (absolutely incredible imo) burning and escape from Y'ghatan the first 3/4ths feels like everyone is just on some half-assed sidequest. Karsa fights a random demon. Quick Ben and Khalam find a bunch of sky keeps, shrug and leave. Mappo and Icarium also dick around with a sky keep. Iskaral Pust just dicks around. They position Dejim Nebrahl as this huge, serious threat but he basically feels like a retread of the Jheck's soletaken god at the end of Midnight Tides which was also basically six cat monsters (and gets dispatched pretty handily in a similar way despite the larger buildup). Afterwards, the next 1/4th abruptly shifts to bridging the gap and getting all of our Seven Cities friends and putting them on a collision course with the Tiste Edur. It's probably the first novel in my reread that feels front-loaded with filler.
|
# ? Oct 23, 2020 04:13 |
Well, a lot of that filler is foreshadowing - the sky keeps tell you that K'Chain Che'Malle are still around and will be back in force for books 9 and 10, and IIRC the random demon Karsa fights is actually one of them? There's some pretty important stuff for the world at large Paran kills a goddess, but I agree that very few things about that book feel climactic or satisfying; I'd say it has too many plot threads at once, presumably because SE wanted to close as many of them as possible before moving everyone to Lether. The inglorious deaths of ancient, powerful beings are definitely something of a theme in the series - world progressing and leaving them behind, see also Silchas Ruin eating a cusser.
|
|
# ? Oct 24, 2020 11:30 |
|
Yeah. If anything the sky keeps and K'Chain Nah'ruk inside them don't get enough attention. You'd have to be annotating the gently caress out of the book to really hone in on that Jaghut woman getting killed as an important moment, and to link that to the Nah'ruk that Karsa kills. The thing about Dejim Nebrahl is that it reinforces a point that comes up frequently in the books, almost without commentary: what was badass several hundred (thousand) years ago is not necessarily badass now. See also: Karsa going to town on the Deragoth. If I have a complaint with the book it's that there are quite a lot of bits that are written for the sake of convenience. The finale works best if it's Kalam vs The Claws, but that means Quick Ben can't get involved, so how do we get Quick Ben away from it - well, how about if he's yanked away by Shadowthrone, but why would Quick Ben agree to do what Shadowthrone wants, well let's put his hitherto-unmentioned sister into a massive spot of trouble that only he can get her out of so he has to ask for Shadowthrone's help (rather than Hood, who he's got this agreement with, because I guess this whole thing has been written for convenience). Also, Kalam's heroics look like pissing into the wind given that Apsalar slaughters like 300 Claws on her own. And why was she there? Convenience There's also, squinting pretty hard, an early clue that [late series spoiler]Tavore is working with Shadowthrone/Cotillion, when she knows to send Bottle after Withal. Only 5 people were on Drift Avalii when/just before Nimander's loser gang left (to track them): Traveller isn't the sort to spread gossip and neither is Apsalar while Cutter doesn't run into Tavore. That leaves Dancer/Kellanved. I really like The Bonehunters.
|
# ? Oct 25, 2020 00:09 |
|
Anyone have a good primer that they recommend? I stopped on Midnight Tides all those years ago and have enough vague memories of Books 1-4 that I don’t think I could re-read but would maybe restart Tides. I recently went back and finished Wheel of Time after almost 20 years so I think I would just need to knock the rust off.
|
# ? Oct 26, 2020 04:31 |
|
just stary with midnight tides. its not like youll be any more confused than anyone else when they start that book and realize its a whole new set of dudes
|
# ? Oct 26, 2020 04:41 |
|
^burtle posted:Anyone have a good primer that they recommend? I stopped on Midnight Tides all those years ago and have enough vague memories of Books 1-4 that I don’t think I could re-read but would maybe restart Tides. I recently went back and finished Wheel of Time after almost 20 years so I think I would just need to knock the rust off. https://www.tor.com/series/malazan-reread-of-the-fallen/ Even just start with the Midnight Tides recap.
|
# ? Oct 26, 2020 07:06 |
|
Dunno how far you got into Midnight Tides, but I thought it picked up around half-way. But you have to like Tehol and Bugg since they carry the book.
|
# ? Oct 26, 2020 07:23 |
I really didn't like Tehol and Bugg.
|
|
# ? Oct 26, 2020 11:40 |
|
I think I got like a quarter through Tides but will probably restart it if I do pick it back up. Thanks for the tips!
|
# ? Oct 26, 2020 19:58 |
|
MT is also great as a standalone story, honestly. I remember reading it for the first time and being confused as hell with the first part dealing with the Edur, and then I got really into it when they were sent to retrieve the sword.
|
# ? Oct 28, 2020 04:04 |
|
Publisher Synopsis for Karsa book one is out:amazon blurb posted:Many years have passed since three Teblor warriors brought carnage and chaos to the small lakeside settlement of Silver Lake. While the town has recovered, the legacy of that past horror remains, even if the Teblor tribes of the north no longer venture into the southlands. One of those three, Karsa Orlong, is now deemed to be a god, albeit an indifferent one. In truth, many new cults and religions have emerged across the Malazan world, including those who worship Coltaine, the Black-Winged God, and - popular among the Empire's soldiery - followers of the cult of Iskar Jarak, Guardian of the Dead. I can dig it.
|
# ? Nov 17, 2020 19:56 |
|
Oh man, I just finished my re-read of Reaper's Gale and I think, almost in the opposite way that The Bonehunters feels spread too thin in the first half, RG feels too dense in the second. Which I know seems like a joke since every book has two dozen+ characters doing things, but I think RG also has this weird start and stop momentum that drags it out. -In previous books all the the plotlines kind of converge into one big, frantic climax of poo poo going down (the final night of the Whirlwind imploding, the Chain of Dogs at its end, fighting through hundreds of assassins during a riot, etc). In RG the big moments like Beak's sacrifice, Redmask's war, the struggle over Scabandari's soul and Karsa's duel all happen spread out enough that the tension keeps being released instead of building up. It's weird, when I read this the first time I recalled Tehol finishing Karos' puzzle and getting attacked for it as being just after the big 'oh no they are arrested and Bugg is trapped the all is lost moment' bit but it happens, like, in the last 100 pages, well after we know the war is about to be over. The pacing is a little hosed, I dunno. -Hannan Mosag just getting casually murdered by the Jaghut who then finds out that the situation was already under control is a pretty good moment, but the sea beast trapped in the ice is so incidental to everything else happening compared to its looming presence in MT that you always knew it was gonna be dealt with handily, so it still feels a little off that the Warlock King's plotline kind of ends with that after everything. -So many characters! So many I didn't remember, and that's because nothing really happens with them! Rautos is a rich guy trying to figure out Icarium's machine who dies when Icarium enters his machine. Venitt is a servant who is both a slave and the deadliest assassin in Letheras, who decides at the end gently caress it, the bourgeois dies, and is never seen again. I can't even remember exactly what happens to Bivatt because after Redmask dies and Tool show up with an army it's assumed she's gonna be put to the sword but it feels almost incidental considering how much emphasis is placed on her and Brohl Handar in the first half of the book. And then the Tiste Andii...like, why even have that plot if you're going to try and tell it in the span of like ten pages and then mostly negate it at the very end? I remember it being something of a big deal when they pick them up in Malaz City in the previous book and I know they have a full-fledged plotline in the next one, but there wasn't nearly enough time spent with these characters to suddenly be concerned that Nimander's sister is crazy and gonna kill the mother and then gets fake suicided because it's couched inbetween so much more going on. Because it's a singular POV you don't even really get the interplay between characters like you do with Udinaas' party, you just know that this guy thinks he sucks and hates that he has to stop his sister and then he stops his sister, and then Clip pops up to go "oh hey come with me". Like, it's so unrelated to everything else happening it feels like it could have even just happened in the next book? It's very jarring and probably kills the momentum more than any other part of the book. -Having said that, Silchas Ruin getting completely owned by the Malazans and fleeing and Koryk just casually crossbowing the chancellor to death in a hallway and laughing about it were both extremely funny moments that I didn't remember.
|
# ? Nov 20, 2020 17:30 |
|
I just finished my first read of Memories of Ice. It took me way too long to get to this point, and definitely too long to read it, but it was very satisfying. I'm pretty sure those last twenty pages or so had me bouncing back and forth between tearing up and laughing.
|
# ? Nov 25, 2020 22:43 |
|
siggy2021 posted:I'm pretty sure those last twenty pages or so had me bouncing back and forth between tearing up and laughing. The times this happens will only increase in number and get more devastating. Also I just started my first reread, Gardens hits different when you know what the hell is going on.
|
# ? Nov 26, 2020 02:12 |
|
Currently re-reading MoI. Taken together with Deadhouse Gates, which happens simultaneously, these two books are incredibly strong. I know he went 10 years between writing 1, to the 2nd and 3rd, and it shows.
|
# ? Nov 29, 2020 10:52 |
|
I'm re-reading them in the form of reading them to my wife at the moment. We're a little through Deadhouse Gates at the moment (having previously reached Midnight Tides together but tailed off due to kids selfishly deciding to be born). Erikson is often banging on in interviews about how he wrote the books with re-reads in mind, but it does show. Lots of little details, foreshadowing, names dropped in earlier than I remember them appearing from the first time round. It's a ball reading these with slightly less confusion than the first time.
|
# ? Nov 30, 2020 13:53 |
|
|
# ? Apr 26, 2024 23:49 |
|
I'm through the first few chapters of House of Chains and dear God the realization that When Karsa and Torvald are on the boat in that Warren with the Tiste Edur it's the same boat from the second book, some 1500 pages of text ago, and in seeing what actually happened was incredible. Or at least I'm assuming that is the case, my memory might be fuzzy. Also a quick question about timelines, spoiling just in case Does this whole book actually take place after book 2, or does it start around the same time, but the time jumps eventually make it go past? It seems like the latter so far unless I'm wildly misinterpreting things.
|
# ? Nov 30, 2020 23:27 |