|
The first time I read HoC I really didn't like Karsa, and the intro was torture. I'm reading it for possibly the third time now really enjoying it. I think the first time around Karsa himself was so blunt that it rubbed off on me, I stopped trying to pick up on the things Erikson wasn't shouting in my face, and trying to piece things together was one of my favourite things of the series. This time around I'm noticing all this detail I missed. Also Memories of Ice owned so much harder than I remembered. Itkovian!  And the ending. 
|
#
¿
Jun 26, 2015 01:47
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 04:18 |
|
|
Fenrir posted:To me that was the biggest tragedy (HoC) of the Teblor in general. The entire thing was just horrific. Those drat broken Imass prescribed that to them, and not just the rape either, they also were made to sacrifice most of their own children. Karsa's father is the one among them who was really like "You know what, gently caress this bullshit." Still HoC spoilers. Actually it wasn't just the Faces in the Rock. The Teblor were reduced to the tribes, rape and raiding before the Faces in the Rock were active. In chapter 2 Karsa and pals find a cave with the story of the shattering of the Toblakai written on the wall. This is my interpretation of it, but I think the Toblakai had been doing some interbreeding with the Jaghut. T'lan Imass came along and annihilated the Jaghut, and a substantial amount of the Toblakai, because T'lan Imass slaughter first and ask questions later, especially when Jaghut blood is involved. The surviving Toblakai fled. The Toblakai leader thought that their blood was cloudy and would grow cloudier still due to their small numbers. Icarium apparently turned up after the Toblakai were shattered, as he was moved by their plight and gave them the Laws of Isolation, which the Toblakai leader implemented. Sundering family and kin ties, dismantling their cities and civilizations, returning to barbarity and scattering the Toblakai into the Teblor tribes to eventually purify their blood. The Toblakai leader believe that only though random and rare breeding, so raids and rape, would their blood clear. It's not specifically mention what the cloud in the blood is but I believe it's Jaghut blood due to the T'lan Imass having such a hard on for killing them and Reaper's Gale spoiler Icarium being half Jaghut half Toblakai. The Faces became active much later, first infiltrating the dreams of Teblor and demanding worship. If the Toblakai had never fallen, they would've known what's up and not fallen for their bullshit. On the stuff I'd like to know about Karsa, I want to know about Karsa's mum. I'm not sure when this spoiler is revealed but his dad was a superb but standard Teblor warrior until Karsa's mum's came along. Her influence was threatening enough that the Faces in the Rock had her killed. What did she know? What had she seen? What got her to start questioning that led to her being assassinated? I want her story drat it. Also Karsa's dad's story because why not?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2015 11:41
|
|
|
Erikson is gonna write himself to death.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2015 12:35
|
|
|
Holy poo poo yes. In Toll the Hounds when Nimander & co with Kallor encountered Gothos, and Gothos told Kallor he should be loving grateful the Jaghut marched to war against death, I wanted to read that story and not TtH.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2015 03:08
|
|
|
The Ninth Layer posted:Pearl the Claw was pretty explicitly gay iiirc. Haha, no you don't recall correctly. He and Lostrara gently caress, Pearl gets bent all out of shape when he thinks she's dead after Y'ghtan Round 2. Sorry about misspelling names/places by the way.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 7, 2015 01:27
|
|
|
dishwasherlove posted:If really liking green is gay then I'm gay. Pearl rules I think Topper was the dude with the love of green.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 7, 2015 02:56
|
|
|
I'm stunned at how much I'd forgotten of book 9 while I was rereading it. I think I remembered one major plot (the ribby snake) and not even all of that. Certainly didn't remember whiskeyjack asking fourteen jaghut, of the last jaghut army who were lead by and betrayed by hood, to go back and gently caress up some short tails, or the bonehunters being in the wrong place/wrong time and getting rolled hard by the short tails, or stormy and gesler being abducted to lead the long tail army, or loving Icarium riding to battle in a giant flying rock shaped like a dragon, blasting short tail skykeeps out of the air like they ain't poo poo.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2015 16:34
|
|
|
It wasn't just the climax, there was loads of good lore and interesting character interactions throughout the book. Someone mentioned a DoD plot point the Barghast hobbling Hetan, so that wasn't as surprising as it should've been, but Olar Ethil raising Tool as T'lan Imass again, as well as claiming to be an Elder God, was pretty surprising. I'm not sure if I believe Olar's claim to god hood, but Draconus seemed to back it up, and she did have the power to compel Toc against his will to turn Tool back, which lead to Tool gathering up the T'lan Imass lying around (and uncovering that there were Imass who didn't join the first ritual but later did a 2nd ritual) and doing an Aren on the Barghast. Which in turn has me wondering who or what caused the Logros T'lan Imass to slaughter Aren after the revolt there.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2015 17:53
|
|
|
zeal posted:Spax of the Gilk is great. He is pretty great. In TGC, where he admits he and few tribesmen put on a ritual of jumping over a fire under the moon, just to gently caress with civilized scholars who'll be debating the meaning of it forever. e: also I can't believe how dumb I am. It only clicked in the last couple of books, when it was pretty much explicitly stated, that the Malazan heavies put on an act of being incredibly dumb to gently caress with everyone else. 2nd e: in hindsight added spoiler tags just in case there's a first time reader wondering about him. Eediot Jedi fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Aug 26, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Aug 26, 2015 04:27
|
|
|
Illinois Smith posted:I don't know what I expected from Dejim Nebrahl after that prologue chapter but it sure wasn't wandering around for half a book, getting his rear end kicked by every character he meets (including Pust and a random Malazan soldier), then being used as Deragoth bait. Dejim Nebrahl did separate Mappo from Icarium, so it had one win. 
|
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2015 18:02
|
|
|
Habibi posted:No, no, there is that other guy in this thread - Baudin maybe? Wow rude. I think. I can't work it out because Beak is actually pretty awesome despite his... uh... limitations.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 29, 2015 04:18
|
|
|
Habibi posted:He launches it out of his scabbard like a javelin and catches it on the way down. Because he's loving Whiskeyjack, that's why. Adjunct Lorn and Ganoes Paran maybe? The only reason I think Ganoes is due to the prominence of the sword. I can't remember anything about Lorn tbh. Habibi posted:Which of the horse, the dude, or the girl did you think was supposed to be a seven foot tall, literally black-skinned, silver-haired not-quite-elf? I laughed pretty hard at this. I also can't remember Anomander ever riding anything that wasn't a giant floating rock, but if the artist blew it that hard...
|
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2015 18:47
|
|
|
The Ninth Layer posted:I liked Assail too... but mostly because I insist that Jethiss is Spinnock Durav and not Anomander Rake. I just read the malazan wiki page on Jethris and there's a hell of a pointer to Jethiss being Spinnock. After regaining his memories: "Hey let's go visit my bro's grave in Coral. I used to play this specific sweet game with him." Spinnock played with Seerdomin. Spinnock was also a hell of a fighter in that he held up Kallor from sundown to sunup just to delay him, Spinnock wasn't even attacking. Like after reading that single quote on the wiki how is there debate unless Esselmont went insane and had Mother Dark blend both Anomander and Spinnock into Jethiss.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 2, 2015 05:15
|
|
|
Chain_of_Dogs posted:It wouldn't be the first time multiple characters were merged together. It's actually not that rare in his world. That's actually why I suggested it as an alternative.  anilEhilated posted:I'm fairly sure there's a scene that says Rake has been playing using Spinnock as a proxy. Something like Spinnock congratulating Rake on his winning moves. But it's been some time since I last read TtH. I know the scene you're referring to but I can't remember the details. Dare I reach up and reopen TtH? The Ninth Layer posted:Yeah but did he play that chess game with him? Yes, but Whiskey Jack was interred in Moon's Spawn with the rest of the Bridge Burners, which was sent out to sea from Coral to sink. The quote from Assail specifically mentions a barrow. I can't remember what happened to Seerdomin's body, whether it was dumped in garbage but later recovered and interred, but his spirit was definitely chilling with the Redeemer in his barrow.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 2, 2015 10:58
|
|
|
rejutka posted:You get a That did happen and that's what the bridgeburners reported officially to the higher ups while shrugging their shoulders theatrically, but there was something else they kept real secret. I'm not sure what that secret is though. anilEhilated posted:I thought that's how we got Korabas? I had to look up that name and I'm just going  . Korabas is the otataral dragon right?
Eediot Jedi fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Sep 3, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Sep 3, 2015 13:35
|
|
|
Illinois Smith posted:so there I was at the end of DoD thinking "I know this is basically one long book cut in half but is he actually gonna end this first half on anything?" and a minute later in the audiobook all hell broke loose. I haven't read the ICE books, but there's a lot of references to Malazans manning some kind of wall against the Stormriders. I wouldn't really call it spoilers as it's not really a secret that spoils anything, it's just part of the world, like Jaghut roaming around. People manning the wall are considered to be bad asses and it's apparently very rare for them to stop and be sent to other duties. I get the feeling there is a bigger story behind Captain Faradan Sort, the captain formerly of the wall, but I don't know what it is. e: Sort owns though, that much is indisputable.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 14, 2015 23:58
|
|
|
I think the ending of DoD is when one of the Malazan captains reveals he can somehow don armour of ice just like a stormrider can, and that he used to roll with Greymane. I'm not sure how he could do it. God drat I read that book like a month ago and it's already vague and hazy, I can't even remember his name.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2015 00:03
|
|
|
Thanks for the name thread, but I think you should spoiler stuff about him for first time readers. There's a long burn between his introduction and when poo poo starts happening. e: also thanks for the stuff about the wall. I don't want to read ICE but that was interesting! Erikson kept on referencing a disastrous Malazan campaign in Koreli and Greymane but it was never really explained what was going on.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2015 14:10
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Another underappreciated pair: Kindly and Pores. One of my favourite lines was Faradan Sort remarking that Kindly was lucky to have someone like Pores to match wits with. 
|
|
#
¿
Sep 17, 2015 05:43
|
|
|
I can understanding DoD being hard going, but holy poo poo the ending goes nuts. TtH is the same. I put down TCG when I started a new job and got to playing bloodborne. I've got to pick it up again before I forget everything from this read through and have to start again.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2015 03:42
|
|
|
Shockeh posted:I agree, I think somehow the death of Trull Sengar is emotionally one of the hardest punches the books ever throw. The end of Midnight Tides also hits me quite badly. Well, yeah. Exiled from his people because he dared to speak out against what they were becoming, making one of the best buddy friendships in the series, being such a martial bad rear end that he held Icarium for a time while wounded after fighting only to protect Minala's Shadow child soldiers, choosing to let a summoned daemon get away with tricking him to go home because he understood, being such a stand up guy that he impressed T'lan Imass, kicking the poo poo out of Clip after Clip was all "I'm the mortal sword of the Black-Winged Lord and lol spears guys are chumps", going back for Rhulad to try to help him when any sane person would've ran. He'd just found love and was going to get married and have a son. And he dies stabbed in the back by a complete piece of poo poo because the Errant just loves his loving pathos. In closing, gently caress Errastas so much.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2015 10:50
|
|
|
rejutka posted:Just to be a bit more of a bastard, you know you didn't mention Beak? 
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
Fenrir posted:I didn't cry for Beak but I came drat close, there were tears welling in my eyes when HOOD HIMSELF created that special place where he could be with his brother. That poor motherfucker finally got the peace he deserved. it was the most It's weird how Hood changes over the series. Keep in mind I'm still stalled early on TCG but it's little things like in TtHs where he stops the guard tracking down the serial killer from having a heart attack at the end, and creating a special place for Beak rather than just letting him through the gate, how he comes to regret taking such a hand in Whiskey Jack's death. I think during TtHs where Hood lets Rake kill him, relinquishes the throne of death and returns to actual life, then seeks atonement from the remnants of the jolly Jaghut army. It's god damned weird to have the god of death grow a conscience and it happens off screen, you just see the results.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2015 16:04
|
|
|
I can't remember who said Hood regretted taking such a personal interesting in Whiskey Jack's death. I think it might've been Raest, and on reflection, yeah, he's a totally reliable source without an agenda. It's more Erikson showing Hood doing little things, like with the guard and Beak. Maybe Hood was doing it all along and it just wasn't shown, but in TtHs with with Hood just going, "Nope, this guard's a good man, he can live" it showed a very specific change. He interfered to keep someone from dying... although Hood was on his way to meet Rake and 'die' in a mad plan... and that was in the middle of a huge convergence with hounds wrecking houses, people dying indiscriminately from being in the wrong place/wrong time... so it was probably just Hood bending the rules in the last five minutes before he left the job for good.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 20, 2015 18:06
|
|
|
rejutka posted:Yeah, he's a top-tier healer and Captain Motherfucker at Tennes (Stone/Earth magic) high denul motherfucker. Just like Mallet, who loving owns.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 23, 2015 04:17
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:IIRC that can really only be used for travel because it's what used to be Kallor's empire and as such is completely dead in more than one way. You know, you just made me consider how big Kallor's Empire must have been if the Malazans can use the imperial warren to travel drat near anywere.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 23, 2015 06:26
|
|
|
Oh you poor bastards who don't appreciate Deadhouse Gates. DG & MOI for life. The first time reading TtH was horrible but I was so numbed that I wasn't looking for the subtle stuff anymore. TtH has a lot of very little things going on, and I appreciated it, especially the Andii parts, a lot more on the second read through. It does save itself for a huge climax though, so keep on trucking. But holy poo poo the Kruppe narration was hard to stomach and it doubled down on having two page long poetry for chapter intros, that seemed even less relevant to the story/history/backstory than ever.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 26, 2015 11:19
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:TtH is great. Major problem is that you need to reread the series and read FoD to really appreciate TtH. The siege of Capustan, undead lizards with swords arms are unveiled, the attack on Coral that goes so well for the Bridgeburners, Toc rolling with Tool and Lady Envy all happen in MoI, it's not really just a Whiskeyjack book.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 26, 2015 14:22
|
|
|
Fenrir posted:Ugh please tag your spoilers. But I do have to admit he was a good villain. I just hate him because (MoI) He loving killed Whiskeyjack Good. That character was overrated.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 3, 2015 11:06
|
|
|
Fenrir posted:Huh. I never felt that way. It's ok I was just yanking your chain. quote:He was (GotM-MoI) only in two books as opposed to many others who have been around for much more, and the way Erikson writes it often takes 2+ books to develop a character fully - Fiddler is a good example of this. He was about as well developed as anyone else at that point, and well done at that. Granted, his defining moment was slaughtering the insane women who tried to take children of the dead seed just to save them from Dragnipur but drat, still. I thought he was a great character. Even Anomander Rake was nearly brought to tears by that. It's not that I think he's a bad character, he's just not as interesting as others. GotM-MoI spoilers He just sticks out like a sore thumb in that he's smart, compassionate, honorable, a tactical and strategic genius, loved by his soldiers, an incredibly skilled swordsman and also wins the heart of a Tiste Andii and wins gets respect from and becomes best buds with Anomander in the space of a book. If he has flaws, they aren't visible. WJ is pretty much a mary sue and set up to be killed to make you have a feeling and it falls really flat, at least to me it did, in comparison to the Bridgeburners getting gutted in Coral, Gruntle and Itkovian during and after Capustan or just the siege of Capustan itself. TtH spoilers while I love Karsa now, and I hated him when I first started HoC but liked him more on the re-read when I got that Erikson was writing him as a know it all rear end in a top hat on purpose so Karsa could be punched repeatedly in the face by reality, when I re-read TtHs I actually started liking Kallor a hell of a lot because he is an interesting character. He comes across as very one dimensional in MoI and others, but in TtHs he is developed a lot. Also the reason you're seeing Karsa develop new facets is because he has been developing new facets. Keep in mind in Teblor years he's basically young twenties, and his experiences really left a mark on him.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 3, 2015 12:27
|
|
|
Fenrir posted:Hmm. That's a fair point about (the first 8 books basically) Whiskeyjack. He is kind of too perfect, and maybe that was the point. Maybe he was built up to die. I agree with you that it wasn't the tragic event that a lot of things were. For example, the deaths of Beak, Toc and ESPECIALLY Trull Sengar were so much more resonant to me. Trull... loving hell I kinda missed it on the first read through. I don't know if I actually missed it or just forgot with time, but my memory of Karsa from my first read was very different to what I ended up with from the second read of HoC. Not much else to say except I agree with the other bits having a lot more impact. Like I can understand how the characters in the story were devastated, but as a reader I was like uhm yeah ok move on please. Moving back to MoI spoiler chat, it was more shocking that Kallor went balls out with his betrayal trying to murder Silverfox than WJ dying. I was expecting something subtle. Probably the reason I like WJ despite him likely being someone's character when Erikson and Co were playing Malazan GURPS, was the way he just didn't take any poo poo at all from Kallor, going so far as to backhand a man that's lived for ages, ruled and burned continents to spite his enemies, and wasn't hiding behind Caladan Brood to do it. Also I probably like Kallor because he's trying to muder Silverfox, which is a sentiment I can get behind. Fenrir posted:Jeez, this page is starting to look like a NSA document. Anyways, at my (very slow) reading speed, which is slower than most snails and sloths, I should manage to finish the series this year. At least, I hope so. I finally got some money together to order DoD and TCG (hell, my fiancee bought me TtH or I wouldn't even have that) and they'll be here soon. I can't wait. The first rule of Malazan fight club is don't spoil anything so the Erikson can sucker punch newbies for days. Also I read the series about 5 years ago, had tried re-reading but never got past the first few books, but started re-read a few months ago and now I'm stalled on TCG because I'm busy and distracted again. I really should finish it before I forget everything and have to restart . Having said that, I'm super excited to read the new books about the Tiste civil war and break new ground so I can understand the feeling!e: instead of bitching about stalling out I actually read a chapter. 
Eediot Jedi fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Oct 3, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Oct 3, 2015 13:09
|
|
I still get sad thinking about that. It was the first time in over a decade a book has made me cry. That was a gut punch with a handful of knives.
|
mornhaven posted:The problem with Whiskeyjack is that you don't see him grow, you only see him after he's reached the end of his development. It's like if Karsa didn't appear before Lether. I get your first point and thought about acknowledging it in my post but chose not to because it's still laid on thick about how noble and good he is. With regard to the second part, it was WJ´s half sister, who is Dunsparrow in BH. She was given to Hood's temple, but WJ and Fiddler took her back.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 4, 2015 04:39
|
|
|
I forgot to mention, also with regard to the second part: Someone in the story claimed that Hood had come to regret taking such a personal interest in WJ's death, which if true meant that Hood was able to influence WJ to refuse healing somehow. I think it was Raest who made the claim while he was going around being Herald of Death but I am 50% sure on that. I don't think Raest is a reliable source. Maybe Hood was still pissed about WJ & Fiddler stealing Dunsparrow back from the temple and was getting a measure of revenge, but given WJ & Fiddler have been in approximately a million deadly scrapes and survived I'm inclined not to believe that. Or Hood can actually read into the future to a degree, which makes sense given he knows when to turn up to collect a soul, and saw an opportunity to gently caress not only with WJ but his beloved Bridgeburners, by getting WJ killed right when they needed all the support they could get. But then why does Hood not gently caress with Fiddler?
|
|
#
¿
Oct 5, 2015 00:24
|
|
|
Lunchmeat Larry posted:Surely Tattersail? Maybe Hood really screwed the pooch and it was Adjunct Lorn.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 6, 2015 09:24
|
|
|
zokie posted:
I read a spoiler one of the malazan wikis about GotM Lorn's demise, I assume it comes from one of the I.C.E. books but I couldn't tell you which one. The person that fucks Lorn up so much that she's easy meat for the follow up attacks was someone from the Crimson Guard there to protect Crokus for reasons???. With regard to your last point, MoI and some god drat book later I don't see WJ turning away and deferring healing many times as bad luck. That was a decision and if it's true that Hood took a personal interest in it, he or someone he bargained with had the power to influence WJ to defer the healing multiple times. Bad luck was Korlat turning around an instant before the Bridgeburners jumped into Coral so they weren't noticed and WJ didn't know immediately he had to rush to relieve them. Bad luck was (DoD spoiler now) the Bonehunters running into a short-tail lizard army in the badlands that was just on its way to gently caress with other lizards and couldn't care less about them. Back to MoI, and some speculation but not too much spoilers from around RG and beyond, WJ's weakened leg snapping an instant before he had Kallor was bad luck. Deferring healing many times isn't bad luck, that's either WJ being stupidly noble because it's WJ and he does seems like the type to put off something like that or someone with serious power loving with him to nudge his decisions away from healing. That's more like the Errant, but he has no truck beyond Letheras. I don't know that would fall under Oppon's umbrella, as it's later revealed who created Oppon to take over for them and what their gig was.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 7, 2015 08:51
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Nope, that's in GotM. IIRC, it's Blues and Fingers sent there by Brood who's worried The Coin Bearer ends up being part of collateral damage when Rake is forced to act and doesn't want to complicate the situation even further. It feels unnecessary, but well, it's GotM. Was that revealed in GotM though? I have no recollection of any bits from either Caladan Brood's or a Crimson Guardsmen's points of view in it. But, well, it's GotM so forgetting is kinda expected.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 7, 2015 09:04
|
|
|
Fenrir posted:I finished Toll the Hounds today, and drat, you guys weren't kidding. That ending was Hahahahaha. Yeah TtHs is a hell of a slog, unless you're a weirdo and really interested in the young Andii, Kallor, Karsa and Dassem bro-ing it up while Samar Dev looks on in horror, Torvald Nom and his idiot friends, young Harllo, Stonny, Murillo etc but that ending is convergence distilled into its purest form. real spoiler: I was interested in those things.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 8, 2015 02:42
|
|
|
Fenrir posted:Ok, so am I reading this right? (Dust of Dreams) Are the K'Chain Che'malle like, capable of genetic modification just by thinking about it? First it talks about that one who is old as gently caress but getting used to new wings and new eyes, then that drone starts mutating into something else. Not sure of the exact mechanism of how it works but yes, they are. Continuing DoD chat I don't know of it's the insane Matron secreting 'flavours' to make them change, or the old as gently caress one (this Shi'gal assassin) is capable of independence and can do it on his own once the Matron gave him the idea to. The drone I'm not sure how that worked. I do like the drone changing sequence because it always makes me think NANOMACHINES SON
|
|
#
¿
Oct 13, 2015 22:16
|
|
|
In TCG, Kilmandaros swats Errastas for poo poo talking Anomander. My reaction was pretty much, "God drat step on him already!" 
|
|
#
¿
Oct 23, 2015 15:35
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 04:18 |
|
|
Concurred posted:In Midnight Tides, I find it strange about the Errant how he doesn't come across as the crazy rear end psychopath he's later known for. His involvement in the events near the end don't really portray him in a hugely negative light. His one big dick move is 'pushing' Brys to drink the poisoned wine along with the rest of the Letherii nobles. Uhm I'm not sure exactly which book it happens in, but I'm pretty sure it's Reaper's Gale, the Errant goes batshit insane because of Warrens awakening in Letheras. He's the equivalent of the old master of the deck, and he's ready to go to war over being supplanted. That hasn't happened in Midnight Tides yet obviously.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 28, 2015 02:41
|
|