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Finished The Crippled God last weekend, and while I enjoyed, there are a couple of things that prevent it from being a fantastic ending for this series. At least for me. First off Erikson kinda forgets about Draconus and the Errant half way through. I was hoping that the Errant would get owned at some time. But no...he literally walks away from the book. Yeah there's that Oppon stuff but I wanted to see it! Draconus the same thing, he just gets forgotten after he owns Kilmandaros and Knuckles. The other annoying part was the Perish. What a huge waste of page really. They just go round and round. While it makes sense in some sort of thematic level, story wise it's just a bore. I think it would have a more strong emotion behind it, if it were the Toc Grey Swords. But that would mean re-writer everything since RG. Also bringing Hetan back after that traumatic moment, was not the best of decisions. Either way, I enjoyed it and in the end there's more good stuff than bad, it's just the bad stuff are really off for me in this point of the series. Now I eagerly wait for more Malazan books by both authors. Last I heard ICE is trying to get his new book out still this year. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Mar 4, 2011 |
# ¿ Mar 3, 2011 23:35 |
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# ¿ Mar 29, 2024 03:01 |
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the periodic fable posted:i think it's intentional, too. I don't think we do and in the end it didn't matter. Kinda disappointing really.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2011 03:10 |
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Jalumibnkrayal posted:This has been bugging me so I have to ask. I've just started book 8, but one thing I read significantly earlier in the series has always stuck with me: Not in Book of the Fallen no. Esslemont's last book will finally reveal what the hell is going on in that place, so it's still a long way to go.
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# ¿ Mar 7, 2011 17:13 |
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Levitate posted:Yeah, finished it, reading House of Chains now. It's got the "important poo poo got taken care of but at a high price, though I'm not sure Whiskeyjack is actually dead, what with him talking about faking his own death and all. Could have gotten Rake to help him out with that in some way, but regardless, it was a pretty rough spot for everyone else I may have some bad news for you. He died. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 11:19 on May 17, 2011 |
# ¿ May 17, 2011 11:17 |
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Abalieno posted:I was writing some comments on Tor re-read, so I thought about asking for opinions here. KEEP IT SPOILER FREE, as I'm not looking for plot details, but just for overall/thematic structure. The Crippled God? Hmm I don't think so. I think the series belongs to Shadowthrone and Cotillion, which ties to it's central theme(and consequential your question). Old vs New. Shadowthrone and Cotillion set off a chain of events(Even before Gardens of the Moon starts) that changes the world of Malazan and it's balance of power. Old ideas, old gods, old powers now must face change or get forgotten and useless. So I guess that's it basically. Malazan Book of the Fallen is about Old vs New and the change that comes from that confrontation. You see it all the time during the series. Old creatures that are suppose to be all powerful, but fail to match the new breed of species and it's tactics.
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# ¿ May 28, 2011 21:24 |
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Levitate posted:Well, and they're talking about Holds instead of Houses and stuff like that and the impression you get from earlier books is that Holds were kind of the primitive version of Houses and all of that, and they talked about Holds all the time until Iron Bars suddenly shows up and you're like "wait, he knows about "modern" magic and poo poo how could that be the case if this took place a long time ago" The answer is right at the prologue. Gotos just iced the entire continent and everything just got frozen in time.
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# ¿ Jun 6, 2011 01:03 |
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gvibes posted:Finally finished re-reading them all. Two questions: 1- Nope! 2- TCG needed to die so his soul could be released. I'm not sure why Erikson decided to show it as it is in the book though.
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# ¿ Jun 8, 2011 16:40 |
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savinhill posted:Toll the Hounds is where he started going way overboard with all the philosophical inner musings of characters. I liked it better on a reread because I knew what parts I could skim without missing huge chunks of important info. I'm one of the few that actually liked Toll the Hounds. Not much, but I liked were Erikson was going with it's ideas and concepts. It was boring as gently caress, but interesting. From a weird point of view. Dust of Dreams, at least for me, suffers from being the only book of the series that is left without a conclusion. The Shake and the Snake series only pay off in TCG. It can get a bit tiring to read, but I think it's worth for some badass fights and rapping mages later on. My favorite is Midnight Tides, for me it's where the Erikson hit the right spot between worldbuilding, story, characters and pay off. It's also full of foreshadowing and you get to read Erikson raging at Capitalism.
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# ¿ Jun 9, 2011 22:10 |
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Abalieno posted:Actually not, as Erikson explained here "(...)and one thing Midnight Tides taught me was that once a certain system of human behaviour become entrenched, it acquires a power and will of its own, against which no single individual stands a chance." Sounds like capitalism alright!
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# ¿ Jun 10, 2011 05:47 |
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gvibes posted:Re: Fener TCG ending spoilers: This part still puzzles me. The conclusion I got was: He was the God of War and countless people died in his name(In the name of war), him sacrificing/spilling his blood can be his way of attaining peace of mind. Now that he is in the mortal world he can see what he had "done" in the first hand. So instead of causing death and destruction he causes rebirth and regeneration. Anyway, makes sense in my head. zokie posted:3. This will be better explained further in the book as well, but yes they are the same person which has been revealed. Why he actually became a god is revealed in TCG. It seems he exists at several places at once as different pieces of his being... More TGC ending spoilers They are indeed the same person, but at the same time they aren't. Dessembrae is the side of Dassem that accepted godhood, Traveler(Dassem Ultor) is the side that rejected it. So they are one, but split into two different identities. The one that roams Malazan world in search of vengeance and the other that hangs out at the god Hotel. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Jun 11, 2011 |
# ¿ Jun 11, 2011 04:17 |
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Leospeare posted:Just finished TCG. Part of me wants to read anything but fantasy, while the other part wants to get GotM and start all over again. I'm not sure they are talking about anything in particular. Just a legend kinda like the Loch Ness Monster.
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# ¿ Jun 20, 2011 16:02 |
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Grammaton posted:So Dassem was a god way before he ever started serving Kellanved? I don't think he was. He became a god during his tenure as Knight of High House Death. There was a line in some book(DG or MoI) that says that Dassem became bigger than the one he served.(Hood)
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# ¿ Jun 21, 2011 00:00 |
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Loving Life Partner posted:I know Kyle is dumb, but what is this hostility against regular names in fantasy novels? I dun get it. Does it rip you out of the world? GRRM has Robb Stark and probably a few I'm forgetting, Sam is a main character in LOTR. Does anyone even notice if its spelled Kile? Or Kyill or something? Sam is a short for Samwise.
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# ¿ Jul 2, 2011 02:53 |
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LtSmash posted:Isn't his full name Ben Adaephon Delat? Thats how it's listed in both wikipedia and the malazan wiki. Does anyone happen to remember how his sister refers to him during the bit of their childhood we see? From Memories of Ice: “ Whiskeyjack said nothing. He angled his mount past the assassin, approached the wizard. ‘One question,’ the wizard asked, his voice barely a whisper yet carrying clearly across the amphitheatre. ‘What?’ ‘Who in Hood’s name are you?’ Whiskeyjack raised a brow. ‘Does it matter?’ ‘We have crossed Raraku entire.’ the wizard said. ‘Other side of these cliffs is the trail leading down to G’danisban. You chased me across the Holy Desert…gods, no man is worth that, not even me!’ ‘There were eleven others in your company, wizard.’ Adaephon Delat shrugged ‘I was the youngest – the healthiest – by far. Yet now, finally, even my body has given up. I can go no further.’ His dark eyes reached past Whiskeyjack ‘Commander, your soldiers…’ ‘What of them?’ ‘They are more…and less. No longer what they once were. Raraku, sir, has burned the bridges of their pasts, one and all – it’s all gone.’ He met Whiskeyjack’s eyes in wonder. ‘And they are yours. Heart and soul. They are yours.’ … ‘…The game we played Whiskeyjack? Only one of survival. At first. We didn’t think you’d make it, to be perfectly honest. We thought Raraku would come to claim you – I suppose she did, in a way, though not in a way I would have anticipated. What you and your soldiers have become…’ He shook his head. ‘What we have become,’ Whiskeyjack said ‘you have shared. You and Kalam...’ …Grimacing, Whiskeyjack twisted further to survey his soldiers. The array of faces could have been carved from stone. A company, culled from the army’s cast-offs, now a bright, hard core. ‘Gods,’ he whispered under his breath, ‘what have we made here?’ The first blood-letting engagement of the Bridgeburners was the retaking of G’danisban – a mage, an assassin, and seventy soldiers who swept into a rebel stronghold of four hundred desert warriors and crushed them in a single night.” I think the mages were afraid of them, and opted to run than fight.
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# ¿ Jul 4, 2011 06:48 |
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Meme Emulator posted:Is this the series of books that literally has a main character named "Darkblade" or am I mistaken You are mistaken and I think that's Warhammer.
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# ¿ Jul 4, 2011 07:12 |
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Masonity posted:I'm either misunderstanding your claim, or it's totally bogus from my perspective. I think by same voice he means, that the characters are all "saying" the same thing. They are all created from the same philosophical thought or theme that Erikson is writing about. After awhile some characters do feel the same, cause in a level they are the same. Not that Wiskeyjack could say the lines of Kruppe, or that Pust acts the same way as Rake, but that most of them are based on the same idea. An example and probably the one that stands out the most: The soldiers in the series are identical. You can say that Smiles and Bottle have a different characterization, but their cores are the same and they are there to just repeat what an already existing character was saying. This gets tiring after awhile cause there are so many, and Erikson wants you to like every single one and have some emotional response to them when they die or survive, but for most readers they find themselves in trouble to care about, as they can't distinguish them. Being a Malazan fan, I will agree that characters are Erikson's biggest weakness. Most of them feel like clones and a lot are walking philosophical ramblings.(Especially characters introduced later on) In many occasions I have the impression that Erikson is more worried in creating a concept and developing an idea than real characters. For example in Toll the Hounds. I forgot the child's name, but it's the kid that gets lost in the mines. The reason that this child character exists is purely on allegory levels. His story mimics the story of Anomander Rake and his brothers, and on a whole, the story of the Tiste Andii.
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# ¿ Jul 4, 2011 10:34 |
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Juaguocio posted:Ugh, Harllo. His story was basically one big red herring. He meets the busted-up T'lan Imass miner and it seems like something interesting is going to happen, and then the Imass gets eaten by the Azath without us even seeing it occur. The allegorical aspect of the Harllo plotline hadn't occurred to me, because it seems completely pointless. The Tiste Andii story has enough metaphorical depth on its own that I don't understand why Erikson felt the need to complicate it further with goofy connections like that. One big allegory: Harllo abandoned by his mother. The Tiste Andii feel abandoned by Mother Dark. Harllo has to learn to live with his half brother, Snell, in an environment not his own.(His aunts house, if I'm not mistaken) The Andii are forced to adapt to the life in Malazan plane, more specifically they see themselves drawn into conflicts not their own.(The Tiste Edur and the K'Chain Che'Malle. Harllo is "back stabbed" by Snell a person he though he could trust. Silchas Ruin is back stabbed by Scabandari Bloodeye, his Allie. During his stay in mines when he talks to the dumb worker he says wonders about Darujistan, but it's nostalgia, in the end he even tries to tell him that it's not wonderful. Endest(Was it him?) talking to Caladan about the wonders of Kharkanas, though he deep down he knows it's all nostalgia talking and he can't remember the horrible times. Harllo in the end is accepted by his mother. Anomander Rake at the end of Toll the Hounds reunites with Mother Dark and opens the way back to Kharkanas. Both Scabandari and the child whose name I forgot, end up in "Houses. Scabandari in an Azath, the child in the Butcher's House. There are other points in Harllo's story that reinforce this train logic, but I seem to have forgotten a lot about TtH. Toll the Hounds is about family, and a prevailing theme in the series, motherhood. Lot's of the plotlines are mirrors to one another, and most of the characters in it, to some degree feel lost cause they didn't had a family, or a mother as a presence in their life, or they no longer feel part of their old family. Like Cutter no longer being recognized by his old "family", Envy and Spite daddy issues, Nimander and his Tiste Andii and so on. I find Toll the Hounds the most interesting book in the series thematically, but by the heavens, it's very boring, dry and long. The ending is amazing though. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jul 5, 2011 |
# ¿ Jul 5, 2011 01:59 |
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Hondo82 posted:
It will be in Darujhistan. Karsa and the Tyrant basically
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# ¿ Jul 21, 2011 09:06 |
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Sir Bruce posted:Man, Night of Knives sucks. I think Erikson was making the reveal that Shadowthrone and Cotillion are Kellanved and Dancer right in Gardens of the Moon. If you go back there's a bunch of clues and lines about it. The book even opens with a poem that says this. But nobody picked that up, so you have a character telling it out in cold in the second book, making it sound like a major plot twist instead of something natural.Something that a lesser character would not be clued in, but ascendants, gods, powerful mages and the reader was already aware. But yes it's a bit weird.
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# ¿ Jul 22, 2011 16:55 |
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Vanilla Mint Ice posted:When you think about it, there really are some people with silly amount of power that could've single handily influenced the story if they had decided to act... To bad he is locked inside an Azath. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Jul 24, 2011 |
# ¿ Jul 24, 2011 02:30 |
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Juaguocio posted:I don't know about that. The end of DG suggests that he inhabits the Azath willingly, and in TtH he holds the builder of the Azath captive, and seems to be able to travel between the different Houses. Nah. He is stuck. But because he is Gothos he managed to find a way to cheat the system. That's why he can move between houses, and visit the dead azath in TtH. He wanted to discover the power of the Azath and use it for himself, but in the process he got trapped inside of it. It's part of his folly.
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# ¿ Jul 25, 2011 01:50 |
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A Nice Boy posted:The problem for me is that this all sounds like poo poo directly lifted from Erikson's books. Jaghut Tyrant! Check. Some sort of Throne that bestows power! Double check. Ragtag Malazan army? Got that! Well the problem with your problem, is that stuff is what Erikson left for ICE to write about. His books probably suffer from having to follow up storylines from Malazan Book of the Fallen directly. Like the Tyrant. That poo poo was in GotM and TtH but Erikson didn't get around to it, so his friend has to finish it up.
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# ¿ Jul 26, 2011 21:12 |
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A Nice Boy posted:Yeah, that ONE aspect (which, honestly didn't need to be readdressed. Raest getting his kitty was a fine ending to his story). Where do the talk about this other throne in Erikson's books? Actually the Tyrants they are speaking is another Tyrant not Raest. The old ruler of Darujhistan which was called...the Tyrant. Blame Erikson for deciding to name him exactly like Raest. Thought it seems that he is another Jaghut. Which sounds a repeat of GotM. As for the other part, it is mentioned in Toll the Hounds, but they just talk about pilgrims coming to see the wreckage, no mention for thrones or new islands.
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# ¿ Jul 27, 2011 13:44 |
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A Nice Boy posted:Hrm, I didn't get the impression from that blurb that the "new throne" was Itkovian's grave but that'd make it more interesting. The actual pieces that fell from Moon Spawn. There's a brief mention, of people looking around for parts that fell during the attack, and trying to find where it sank to see if it has treasure, but they never mention islands and thrones. It was a just one passage in TtH, to flesh out the setting. The blurb really sounds pretty poor, especially this throne business. These ICE's novels should be really about Iron Bars and his chums kicking rear end all over the place. Not a dude named Grift trying to find something.
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# ¿ Jul 30, 2011 01:29 |
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Daric posted:Yeah, I was going to read that and then I scrolled down and realize too many words There's more brooding. A lot of it.
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# ¿ Aug 5, 2011 07:48 |
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The reason Rake took Dragnipur is quite simple. He hated Draconus, so for Rake the ultimate irony was to kill Draconus with his own creation. The actual purpose of Dragnipur was oblivious to him when he took it. He just thought Dragnipur was a funky sword. The sword was created to save Kurald Galain from getting eaten by Chaos. Draconus was just one big nastie and he tended to kill everyone who crossed him, so the ultimate fate of those killed by the sword fitted his persona and his goal. He didn't expect Rake to take it. Rake on the other hand had troubles with it(Draconus comments this right on the first book! That he is too merciful), and chaos was finally catching up with the wagon. This then leads Rake to strike a deal with Hood, wait for Dassem to show up, get himself killed with his own sword, end up inside Dragnipur and sacrificing himself to open the way. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Aug 24, 2011 |
# ¿ Aug 24, 2011 17:20 |
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Wallet posted:Every time I peek into this thread I'm re-convinced that letting Esslemont's books rot on a shelf is better than actually reading them. Maybe I'll build up the courage to find out some day. If you liked the two characters in Memories of Ice and SE's deadpan humour, than yeah they worth it.
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# ¿ Sep 10, 2011 22:32 |
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Though Memories of Ice spoils a major plotline of Deadhouse Gates, not even half way.
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# ¿ Sep 11, 2011 22:15 |
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Pokeylope posted:Deadhouse Gates is one of the best books in the series I've read so far, and while you may be able to read MoI and understand it without reading DG, I can't say for certain that the plot of DG won't be spoiled for you. I don't know what Electronico is refering to, but I'll take his word for it and assume DG is spoiled in MoI. I'm talking about that it's revealed fairly early in MoI, that the Empress is behind it all. In Deadhouse Gates it'sthe conclusion of the journey of Kalam and Fiddler and the book. Not to mention the actual Chain of Dogs.
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# ¿ Sep 11, 2011 22:59 |
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Abalieno posted:Also another aspect I was thinking about and that it was important for me to understand certain things. I'm half sure none of those guys are actually part of the "Origin of the Universe". Except for maybe the Azath, but that's not really an entity.(Or is it? DUNN DUNNN DUNNN!) A character in GotM calls Burn younger than him. Raest With MD and K'rull it gets weird, but K'rull came after her. Also most likely spoilers for the entire series I think Hood is one of the oldest creatures in the series. Probably more so than K'rull. Electronico6 fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Sep 23, 2011 |
# ¿ Sep 23, 2011 19:42 |
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Vanilla Mint Ice posted:No he's not, he was just a king of their people before he settled into that role. There were other people who can even recall their war. Now that you mention yeah, I forgot about the soletaken dude and a host of other dudes. There's just a bunch of events and characters that are as old as gently caress that it's hard to try to wrap your mind around it.
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# ¿ Sep 23, 2011 20:12 |
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Popular Human posted:To add a perspective to the discussion, I read GotM about a year ago, and while I liked it somewhat, enough things rubbed me the wrong way about it (mostly how the last hundred pages felt like a protracted DBZ battle) that I didn't pick up Deadhouse Gates until two weeks ago, and just finished it today. 1- I actually don't remember anything about that character. 2- You will have to wait for that one. 3- You really want to know? Yes 4- They were T'lan Imass and they were hunting someone. Who that someone is will become apparent books later. And so is the ship they were on. The guy that sacrifices himself, closes the wound the crazy mage made in the Warren. Then Kulp uses his powers to get them out, and wake up an undead dragon in the process.
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# ¿ Sep 27, 2011 22:55 |
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Popular Human posted:That makes a lot more sense, thanks. I guess part of my confusion stems from the fact that I don't really understand what the T'lan Imass are, but I figure that's part of the fun and will be explained later. Well the T'lan Imass have been explained, not well though. You had Tool in the first book. The basic gist is that there was this race formerly known as the Imass, and they used to be slaves to the Jaghut, and one day the Imass said "gently caress you assholes!" and started a war with the Jaghut. At the end of the war the Imass formed a pact between themselves, they would never rest again until the world was rid of Tyrants(Jaghut). OF course this did not go according to plan. As for the child Well Habbi already answer. But does the Child actually see Cotillion when he's shrouded or is Cotillion not shrouded at all.
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# ¿ Sep 27, 2011 23:31 |
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Habibi posted:Didn't the Imass only start poo poo when the Jaghut tyrants arose in the first place, though? Yes the story is that the Jaghut Tyrants came to them and acted as gods and enslaved them all, after some time some of the Imass started to realize that the Jaghut tyrants were kinda of a fraud. But for the T'lan Imass every Jaghut is a Tyrant.
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# ¿ Sep 28, 2011 00:51 |
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Abalieno posted:I don't know if anyone is interested here, but I'm going through some ABSURD mind bending theories by linking some of Erikson's ideas in the series (in particular the last lines of House of Chains), with Constructionism, Kabbalah, Castaneda's work, "Gödel, Escher, Bach", von Foerster and Niklas Luhmann. Geez mate I only came for the zombie dinosaurs with swords for arms. Either way Kruppe would be a character that seems(or is) aware that it's life is part of a story of fiction. So much that he gets to narrate a part of it, in a very omnipresent way.
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# ¿ Sep 29, 2011 18:48 |
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33rd Degree Idiot posted:Speaking of which, this brings up a good question: Outside of the Malazan series, which novels or series (of any genre) would you say are (even) better on a re-read? Any book by Gene Wolfe. Especially Book of the New Sun.
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# ¿ Oct 18, 2011 19:45 |
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Metonymy posted:I get who Shadowthrone is. Being "Shadowthrone" in "High House Shadow" with dressed-up hellhounds and a bestbuddy who is the Patron of Assassins isn't "death aspected"? Every single thing about that connotes death. Not really no as there is already a House of Death. And a god of death.
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# ¿ Oct 27, 2011 04:42 |
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Metonymy posted:Your username notwithstanding, I don't get the feeling you've hung out with many marines or soldiers or anyone in a position of martial authority. People in those positions rarely says twee trite poo poo like "It's so hard to find good help these days". Characters in anime do. Who says Shadowthrone is a character of true authority? He is a scoundrel and a liar, he is the true personification of what he represents, shadows and illusions. Aren't you projecting your own ideas of what a god should act out?
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# ¿ Oct 27, 2011 04:56 |
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Habibi posted:Veering completely and wildly off-topic, but what notable lines does early WoT have? "I'll ask Perrin/Rand/Matt about girls. He knows how to deal with them!" Unforgettable stuff. (Though Erikson is also guilty of repetition of phrases. Wave of magic and whatever.)
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# ¿ Oct 27, 2011 07:58 |
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# ¿ Mar 29, 2024 03:01 |
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dmccaff posted:I'm almost finished the first book, quick question regarding Oponn: I'm a bit puzzled at why they 'control' people and items. Like they have control or whatever over Parans sword - what's the big deal? What does it matter to Paran if they have his sword? I realise he was able to injure Gear with it because of Oponn pushing good luck or whatever, and the same with Crokus. I just don't get why they're doing it, and why everyone is so afraid of them. Have I missed something or will it be revealed later? Sorry if this is a dumb question, I think I'm just spoiled after coming from ASoIaF where I'm fed paragraphs of infodumps. They doing it because they are jerks. There's more to it, but that's the basic.
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# ¿ Nov 1, 2011 19:32 |