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Vanilla Mint Ice posted:Also, I didn't read Knives of Night but I thought Kellanvad and Dancer let themselves get overthrown because they didn't want to be seen possessing too many thrones at once especially since they figured out how to get the shadow throne. I'm pretty sure Cotillion confirms this with Crokus/Cutter in House of Chains. He pretty much admits Shadowthrone and him knew that taking control of both the Throne of Shadow and the mortal Malazan empire would cause both ascendants and other mortals to attack them on both fronts.
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Sep 29, 2011 08:32
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Spermy Smurf posted:Also, I'd rather hear about the Seguleh by an actual Seguleh, if we heard about them from Rake it would be an outsiders perspective. I want to know more about their inner workings. We might hear about that in the Darujhistan novel (please ICE don' make it suck...) since we had the rogue Seguleh show up in TtH. Plus the Seguleh seem to be linked to the Tyrant. Isn't some of the prequel Tiste Andii stuff foreshadowed in TtH and tCG? The whole Hust sword/Hust legion bit and the internal factional warring? I always thought the emo Andii phase was after Mother Dark abandoned them. IncendiaC fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Oct 4, 2011 |
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Oct 4, 2011 03:18
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Levitate posted:I was kind of under the impression he realized that the war against death was impossible to win, so he took the throne of death as a way to control it, of sorts, and in doing so pretty much betrayed the Jaghut he gathered to fight with him against death. Could be wrong. I think he talks at some point in TCG or DoD about how it was before he started running things and how it was a shitshow That's pretty much what I got out of it too, because I don't think there was an afterlife before Hood. At most there would be that Bridge of Death warren Paran and Hedge met up in tBH and at worst you'd get swallowed up by Chaos. quote:Someone definitely says something about the K'Chain subjugating the Jaghut in a similar way they did to the Imass, but they could be totally wrong and it's not really followed up on and in subsequent books doesn't appear to be completely correct I remember that bit too, and I recall somewhere the K'Chain didn't rule the Imass as gods, they hunted them for food. Don't forget, they had huge floating gently caress-off skykeeps that shot lasers. The only reason the KCCM lost their grip was from the Nah'ruk rebellion and the Tiste invasions. I don't think the Jahgut could have started a war with the KCCM, being the solitary creatures they are. Oh and the Forkrul Assail's powers don't work on them
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Oct 28, 2011 03:23
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Turpitude posted:Something like this happens in book 8 and it is just as amazing as you might imagine! The only thing that would make that scene more awesome is if Tehol and Bugg were somehow there too.
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Nov 26, 2011 19:58
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Leospeare posted:So when do you all think an ascendent is considered a god? Is it when people start worshipping them, or they take over a Deck of Dragons house, or something else? Dessambrae has worshippers but I don't recall if he's ever shown to have a place in the Deck. Shadowthrone and Cotillion seemed to jump straight into godhood because High House Shadow was empty - I always got the impression that they didn't have much in the way of actual worshippers beforehand, though there may have been cults of Shadow that they effectively took over when they ascended. From what I've seen, there isn't really a difference from a god and an ascendent power-wise. Gods are basically just ascendents that have worshippers and accept their prayers (and their godhood). I believe in HoC there's a flashback where Cotillion assassinates a Shadow cult leader, probably to remove opposition when they eventually ascended. There's also in TcG where Dessembrae is the side of Dassem that accepted godhood and worshippers (Lord of Tragedy) while actual Dassem is just a really emotional ascendent. Most of the established gods in the series protect themselves by hanging out in guarded warrens and acting from there(Queen of Dreams, Shadowthrone+Cotillion, Hood). Those that don't are easy prey, just ask Fiddler and Hedge 
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Dec 14, 2011 00:09
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Yarrbossa posted:Finished Memories of Ice. Goddamn amazing book. This series has surpassed Game of Thrones for me, although I'm really hoping something happens with the remaining Bridgeburners in later books. I kept reading and watching the Bridgeburners go down one by one thinking "Goddamn, is ANYONE going to survive this mess?!" By the name of the next book, I can judge it should be awesome. So many awesome characters all around and the parts where everyone paid their respects to Whiskeyjack, the fallen Bridgeburners, and Itkovian were particularly emotional. Now for Korlat to avenge Whiskeyjack! Er, House of Chains isn't a direct sequel to Memories of Ice. House of Chains is a sequel of the Deadhouse Gates storyline (and introduces a new storyline). You're going to have to wait a while before you see (MoI)the remaining Bridgeburners. Hell, you don't even see much of Genabackis until Toll the Hounds.
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Jan 13, 2012 08:19
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Midnight Tides, IMO, is one of SE's last 'balanced' books, as the later novels start to increase in the oft-mentioned philosophizing (although Bonehunters isn't as bad). It's also probably got the best 're-readability' aside from Gardens. There's a shitton of hidden easter eggs and references you won't pick up until after you finish the series. MT spoiler chat:Midnight Tides also probably has the best example of the 'grey area' that SE is so well-known about. During the clash at the Eternal Domicile, it's really hard to choose a side to root for, which makes it even better. Also Tehol and Bugg are awesome, but you knew that already Ammanas posted:Really big MT spoiler: Would you guys have preferred Brys stay dead after being poisoned? It fit the tragic outrage of how the story progressed; it was pretty cool when the guardian came for him but I think Erikson went a bit overboard with his resurrection spells in the end of MT. More big MT and RG spoilers:I didn't really mind Brys getting taken by the guardian but I hoped that he would have a bigger change when he got resurrected. I mean, you'd think that since he went through death and came back, the whole experience would change him. As it stands now however, he pretty just got an 1UP mushroom and went as if nothing happened.
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Mar 7, 2012 19:59
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pakman posted:See, that's another thing I didn't pick up. If that corpse was in Bugg's realm, though, how in the hell did the body end up outside of Coral? Did it just wash ashore, or was in place there with a purpose? Well, Bugg is the Elder God of the sea, so it makes sense that the entire sea is his "warren". I don't imagine that Bugg really thought about where the body would surface.
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Apr 2, 2012 05:24
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pakman posted:So I started The Bonehunters, and I'm looking forward to reading it already. Just from the Prologue a dragon being awakened by Nameless Ones, a dude hunting that demon, a church full of recently dead guys with people splattered all over, and another mysterious person who knows what happened but I can't remember what he looks like The prologue? It's not a dragon. It's something else. Can't say much more but you'll be surprised. As an IMO, The Bonehunters is the last book before Erikson starts going out of control with the whole philosophizing schtick. The later books are still pretty drat good, but I started to tire of the essentially-same-voice monologue from 5 different characters.
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May 28, 2012 05:39
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Porkchop Express posted:You know, I really really used to love this series. I loved the first couple of books but then as time went on I started to feel my interest slipping, and finally about 1/3 of the way through Toll the Hounds I finally just gave up. Between not being able to remember what happened from the last book and a pace that seemed really slow to me, I finally just gave up. The typical Malazan novel sequence is a slow beginning that builds up to a huge convergence. Toll the Hounds takes this to the extreme on both ends. The beginning is boring as all hell Kruppe narrating 1/3 of the book and having Nimander for another 1/3 oh god but it ramps up heavily 2/3 of the way through. It's probably the best ending in the series. The last two books follow the formula too, not as slow as the beginning of TtH but they will drag in at the start of the book (especially with the 'dreaded Erikson philosophy rants'), but IMO they really pay off at the end. DG and MoI side-stepped the "typical Malazan plot" because they had the Chain of Dogs throughout DG and the seige of Capustan pretty early in MoI.
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May 29, 2012 23:39
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Yeah I read books. posted:Scillara is pregnant, right? Well, I'm pretty sure the dude that knocked her up was that guy that was going to execute her, that she stabbed while he was boning her. Thus, with the setup of the dead seed stuff in Memories of Ice, she has a child of the dead seed in her. Right? Wrong? Completely off? I think you have (MoI+BH)Scillara and Stonny mixed up. In Capustan Stonny stabbed the guy that raped her. You'll have to RAFO for more on that. I've almost forgetten but I'm pretty sure Scillara was a camp follower during the Whirlwind in HoC and was used as a prostitute by that pervert mage.
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Jun 8, 2012 07:34
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pakman posted:Bonehunters: By now you can probably tell Pust is more than he seems. Fid's squad manages to get beneath the city during the explosion and they fail to get themselves out. However the Adjunct's army returns to Y'Ghatan and is found by either Grub or Sinn (I forget which one). The Nameless Ones took it upon themselves to "guard" Icarium from everyone else. Mappo was one such guardian but since he's become a friend of Icarium the Nameless Ones wanted to replace him. The Diver's were summoned in the beginning to separate Mappo and Icarium so Taralack Veed (thank you Google!) could take his place as guardian. In the past, the Diver's were pretty much unstoppable, and the Deragoth were the only ones who could face them on equal footing. When Paran finds out the Diver's are active again he assumes the Deragoth would be needed to bring them under control and so he releases him. I don't exactly remember why that the T'lan showed up there but those two are on the Crippled God's side. RAFO.
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Jun 10, 2012 22:16
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bigmcgaffney posted:Isn't this when Masan Gilani and her ample bosom kill or mortally wound one of the D'ivers segments? Yes it was! She manages to wound one of them too if I recall correctly. Man, I need to refresh my Malazan knowledge. It's been more than a year since I read Bonehunters.
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Jun 11, 2012 06:02
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unprofessional posted:Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I've been reading the quitters as assail, and they mentioned losing a number of them, but not really explaining why, or why they're not just slaughtering the kids, aside from "the power of WORDS," which I don't understand either. DoD You're half right. The "quitters" the Snake refer to are Inquisitors, which certainly have some characteristics and abilities of Assail. You can probably figure out that the Assail "power" is in their voice. RAFO on that. A really minor piece of trivia from the beginning of TCG: Inquisitors are not full-blood Assail. Half-bloods do have some power in their voice but it's nowhere near pure Assail power.
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Jun 18, 2012 02:18
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RG is pretty boring in the beginning for sure, moreso than the earlier Malazan novels. You've also got your typical Erikson convergence at the end so it'll be worth it if you power through it. Unfortunately starting from RG, the last 4 MBotF novels have pretty slow starts so this will give you a taste of whats to come.
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Jun 28, 2012 06:47
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The Dark Wind posted:So I'm about 300 pages deep into Deadhouse Gates. Two questions: AFAIK, warren travel isn't that easy, and that particular warren is different. It's an Elder Warren, which is quite different from the regular ones we saw in GotM. Most of DG is set in Seven Cities, which is a desert continent. GotM was set in Genabackis and had grassland/forests/mountains I think. Oh and GotM gets so much better on a reread. It's chock full of details that you'd only pick up from reading the rest of the books. Unfortunately that makes it a really hard book to pick if you're new.
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Jul 5, 2012 09:30
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zzttaozia posted:Will I be alright reading Memories of Ice before Deadhouse? I've read Gardens of the Moon and decided to buy Memories and Deadhouse for a 14 hour flight tomorrow, but only Memories has arrived. Both DG and MoI happen around the same time chronologically, with almost totally different storylines and set on different continents. There's a few references to DG including some fates but it shouldn't be too spoilery. But: The epilogue/last few pages of MoI features a character who's in DG, although that character's fate is already implied. I recommend not reading that bit until you finish DG.
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Jul 8, 2012 21:12
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Oh Snapple! posted:Chapter two of Forge of Darkness was posted on TOR's site. Wow, that came out of nowhere 
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Aug 2, 2012 19:11
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Yeah I read books. posted:Is this something I should wait to read until I'm done with the actual series? Or can I read the first two chapters posted online if I'm only up to end of Reaper's Gale/beginning of Toll The Hounds?
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Aug 2, 2012 23:14
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Yarrbossa posted:
T'lan Imass (MoI and HoC):If I remember correctly, the Ritual of Tellann was done because of the Vow. The Vow was basically "gently caress the Jaghut, we won't stop until they're all dead". The Ritual allowed them to continue their war after natural life spans. Chart: Yep. The arrow refers to the prologue of House of Chains.
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Aug 8, 2012 02:59
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pakman posted:I just finished Toll the Hounds. What a weird ending. What exactly happened with Rake inside of Dragnipur? And then it spread to Black Coral to stop the Crippled God, and the Mother Dark returned, but she was there all along in Aranatha? It's been almost 2 years since I finished TtH, but IIRC Rake got himself killed so he could release the Gate inside Dragnipur. Remember that Draconus sealing the Gate inside the sword also bound Mother Dark, and if the Gate fell MD would also perish. Rake sacrificing himself to release the Gate convinced Mother Dark to forgive the Andii. She was an observer in Aranatha, but didn't seem to be able to act (or didn't want to) until Rake's sacrifice. Also, you're referring to the Dying God, not the Crippled God. The Dying God is an unwanted remnant of Silverfox/most of Bellurdan that encounted Hairlock's puppet and tried to emulate him. IMO, there's no way Dassem would be able to carry Dragnipur. The weight of all the souls takes massive inner strength, and Dassem's pretty broken emotionally. It's a pretty drat heavy book to read, and the next two are like that too.
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Nov 1, 2012 08:22
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Masonity posted:I couldn't disagree stronger. Hmm, I never thought of it that way before, and it would be kind of fitting. I still think of him as regular human Dassem and not ascendant Lord of Tragedy.
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Nov 1, 2012 18:50
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Yeah the rampant philosophizing is a valid complaint. It gets more and more lengthy in his later books and his editor really needed to point that out. I remember reading in an interview that they were friends so that explains why. Most of the time though, you won't miss out on too much by skimming through those sections. There might be snippets of lore here and there but nothing that should impact your understanding of the overall plot. My understanding was that the last D'ivers was left alive to attract the Deragoth, since they were mortal enemies when they were still active. By transporting the D'ivers to Poliel's temple, the Deragoth arrived and killed Poliel (who was trapped by the otataral shard) as well.
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Dec 12, 2012 08:00
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echomadman posted:The walls of philosophy/sociology texts are what make Ericksons books better than most other fantasy for me, if you take them out you might as well just read D&D novels. Don't get me wrong, I think the philosophy texts are fine and I have nothing against it, in fact they made Books 1-6 much more enjoyable for me. I just think he went overboard with them in TtH and onwards. They're still miles above any other generic fantasy "kill dragons and save the world from evil" stuff.
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Dec 13, 2012 01:49
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There's definitely a bit of overlap though. The end of Toll the Hounds roughly corresponds to the middle (maybe a little earlier) of Dust of Dreams.
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Apr 12, 2013 23:32
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I might be the only one that missed it, but my most "oh poo poo why didn't I notice that" bit was in TCG where T'lan=Tellann. I mean, yeah we knew that the Imass used Tellann for their ritual but I never connected the two words together.
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Aug 1, 2013 02:34
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Jerkface posted:I thought the big thing with Assail was that 3 tyrant mages were playing a game with each other using their subjects as fodder and the lost imass clans were throwing wave after wave of themselves into these tyrants who were stronger than jaghut tyrants. There was even a memory of assail in TCG right? With some laughing bearded mage guy? The mage tyrants aren't related to Assail. They controlled the Shal-Morzinn empire (thank god for google) and aren't relevant to the series except a very small indirect part in The Bonehunters. In TBH, the Perish opened a gate for the Malazan fleet that led them directly to Malaz City. The whole reason for doing so was to avoid Shal-Morzinn territory since the tyrant mages were incredibly hostile to foreigners.
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Sep 28, 2014 08:25
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A number of mages in the series can't even explain their own magic system (and sometimes their own understanding is flawed), so not understanding warrens early on is almost intentional.
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Jan 28, 2015 22:14
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rejutka posted:Yeah, he's a top-tier healer and Captain Motherfucker at Tennes (Stone/Earth magic) (FoD)But to be fair he's an Azathanai, who are exceptions to pretty much every rule the main series has established. I always thought that while mages had an affinity for a single warren and usually stuck with it, most were able to learn closely-related warrens if they put in the effort. So a Meanas mage could learn Mockra or Rashan if they wanted to, a Telas mage could learn Thyr, etc. The empire also had that imperial warren that apparently could be accessed by malazan mages.
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Sep 22, 2015 23:36
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anilEhilated posted:IIRC that can really only be used for travel because it's what used to be Kallor's empire and as such is completely dead in more than one way. So it's less that it's only Malazans that can use it and more that it's only them who have a reason to use it regularly since most other warrens offer travel functions too and most other folks don't run a multiple continent-spanning empire. Oh I know. I brought it up because of the "can people use multiple warrens" discussion earlier, unless general warren travel is a generic magic thing and doesn't require an innate connection. Although now that I think about it, the imperial warren was the remains of a continent from the 'regular world' and shouldn't have any natural Aspected magic so it could be the exception to the 'limit on warrens' rule. Also (TBH)Pearl (the Claw assassin) was trying to use Mockra, Rashan, and Imperial when he was planning his escape from Apsalar's Shadow Dance, so yeah dual related warrens don't seem to be particularly rare unless it's a weird combo like Ruse and Kurald Galain.
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Sep 23, 2015 07:04
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"It's a 10 book fantasy series with magic, dragons, and definitely-not-elves. It's also based on some guy's D&D campaign" ...yeah I wouldn't want to read it either if that's how someone described Malazan to me.
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Dec 13, 2015 05:32
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cptn_dr posted:...are the K'Chain Che'Malle undead dinosaurs? This loving book. [MoI]With swords for arms!  Did a reread of Forge of Darkness in preparation for Fall of Light a week ago, and there was a ton of stuff I missed the first time around [FoD] like how Dog-Runners (Imass) were named not only because they hunted with the Ay, but also because their ancestors (the Eres) were enslaved by the Deragoth. Also the Bolead dolls/Bole brothers.
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Feb 14, 2016 13:55
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The Ninth Layer posted:Got this in the mail today: Post your thoughts on it when you're done! I've stopped following ICE's stuff after Stonewielder (looked up summaries of his other books), but I'm really hoping this new trilogy lives up to the expectations Erikson set up for us in the main series.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:55
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Infinite Karma posted:It is? I sure didn't connect those dots in MoI. There's a lot of parallels between Mhybe's constant slumber+dream world and Burn's sleep, plus Burn in general gets mentioned a lot in MoI and how her waking up will basically destroy the world. I didn't fully connect the two plotlines together until fairly late in the series though so you're not alone!
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Mar 17, 2016 10:15
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cptn_dr posted:But Rhulad has just come back to life and become Emperor, so I assume it's him that Paran needs to worry about, rather than Mosag, the Azath is dead and some ancient being (presumably from the prologue) is trying to get out, and Bugg is looking more and more suspicious. I assume it's going to be all convergence and economic holocaust from here on out. Rhulad's resurrection is where it starts picking up, so don't worry it gets better! Also, the first chapter for Fall of Light is on TOR
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Apr 5, 2016 07:05
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(TCG) Yeah Draconus kills both Kilmandaros and Sechul in the text, and IIRC Kil's dying thoughts were basically "Errant, you're hosed. He's coming for you next."
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Apr 30, 2016 06:11
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Yeah I'm seriously impressed with your predictions. Even discounting the more obvious ones, a couple of them are frighteningly close to the mark.
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May 16, 2016 10:06
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Monocled Falcon posted:Shouldn't everybody chained to it simply be incredibly bored from not having anything to do. They've clearly got infinite stamina, otherwise they couldn't still be moving the wagon. The chained souls, while technically immortal, definitely don't have infinite stamina as the ones who are too exhausted to move get loaded onto the wagon. Pretty much everyone still walking is either a more powerful being or was killed relatively recently. As for boredom, it's explained in later books but (vague background MoI/TtH spoilers about Dragnipur) the wagon is continually pursued by chaos so everyone moves to stay 'alive', as being consumed by chaos would end their existence entirely.
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Sep 12, 2016 07:15
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Ulio posted:Is it also ever explained how people show up to CG's place in Midnight Tides? Can he just forcefully summon anyone? MT Most gods have some sort of general summon/teleport ability, but the CG's is most likely pretty weak. Plus, the Lether continent is a special case due to Mael's spell so souls are just hanging around in limbo, which makes it possible for him to summon the Naachts and Sandalath (I think it's also the reason the Edur can forcefully enslave Andii wraiths and Shurq can still exist). But I agree with snoremac, Rhulad's soul gets auto-summoned due to the sword and is repeatedly sent back to his body. The island is probably an actual place in the world (that had some sort of barrier around it). IIRC the CG's tent is a warren fragment.
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Nov 5, 2016 09:21
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MT The Edur didn't use chaotic magic until recently. They only switched because Mosag did it first and united the Edur clans; the power he got from the CG was much stronger than whatever Emurlahn fragments the rest of the Edur used. Other than that, Knobb is right in that Mosag had no intention of conquering Lether. He just wanted to use the CG's power to lead and protect the Edur from Letherii exploitation/influence, but Rhulad usurped him and ruined that plan. Whole series I don't think the CG had an overarching plan since his only philosophy pre-DoD was "this world hosed me over, I hope everyone in it suffers as much as I do". Controlling armies and champions to spread misery happened to be a convenient way to do it. It wasn't until DoD or so that he was convinced to try and save himself.
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Nov 6, 2016 06:14
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