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incogneato
Jun 4, 2007

Zoom! Swish! Bang!

Thesaurus posted:

If a CPA hypothetically screws something up on my return, like used the wrong cost basis for depreciation, does the IRS still drop the hammer on me just the same? Short of hiring a second CPA to double check the first or teaching myself the relevant tax laws, I don't know what I don't know.

The IRS's main goal in an audit is just for you to pay the correct amount of tax, as opposed whatever you paid based upon the error. If you're asking whether the CPA will have to pay your tax, then the answer is no. Maybe you'd have some other remedies against the CPA privately, but the IRS is not going to collect your tax liabilities from someone else.

As Epi Lepi noted, it may be possible to have the penalty removed if one is applied during the audit (it's also possible no penalty would applied to begin with, depending on the error). That's a fact-dependent question, though--blindly signing a return without making any effort to understand it is not generally enough.

At the end of the day, you are trusting a professional to do work for you correctly.

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PageMaster
Nov 4, 2009

smackfu posted:

Obviously most people just go, “looks good to me.” Or “I see I forgot to mention something to you.” Don’t really think it’s about checking their work.

I'm actually doing this starting today. The refund amount is way off from my rough calcs before I gave it to the CPA so I'm basically running through all 40 pages seeing if I can see where the numbers came from. At much as I would like to just go with it since his refund estimate is a lot nicer than mine, I've found some assumption errors on what is or isn't taxable. It's unfortunate that I have to use them just because the free software doesn't let me put in the notes I need to.

PageMaster fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Mar 18, 2021

PageMaster
Nov 4, 2009
Are you required to file taxes in a state you sold a house in, even as a non resident who earned no income from the sale (was net loss unfortunately)? CPA seems to think so, but it seems unusual to file over just to say nobody owes anybody any money.

scribe jones
Sep 17, 2008

One of the key problems in the analysis of this puzzling book is to be able to differentiate a real language from meaningless writing.

PageMaster posted:

Are you required to file taxes in a state you sold a house in, even as a non resident who earned no income from the sale (was net loss unfortunately)? CPA seems to think so, but it seems unusual to file over just to say nobody owes anybody any money.

which state? the argument for filing is that you’d just be demonstrating to the state that you had no taxable income (since the property was sold at a loss), and prevent them from coming after you in case the proceeds are reported to them somehow. but every state’s filing requirements are different so who knows.

PageMaster
Nov 4, 2009

scribe jones posted:

which state? the argument for filing is that you’d just be demonstrating to the state that you had no taxable income (since the property was sold at a loss), and prevent them from coming after you in case the proceeds are reported to them somehow. but every state’s filing requirements are different so who knows.

Colorado. We were military there so non residents, and sold the place at a loss so we have no taxable income in the state.

AtomicSX
Jan 10, 2007

stellers bae posted:

Wow, no fuckin' way. My wife and I earn barely over the $150k limit for not having her UI taxed. Also I was """covered""" by a retirement plan for three months of the year last year so I can't reduce MAGI with an IRA contribution. drat.

Do you have an HDHP insurance plan / HSA?

Tricky Ed
Aug 18, 2010

It is important to avoid confusion. This is the one that's okay to lick.


PageMaster posted:

Colorado. We were military there so non residents, and sold the place at a loss so we have no taxable income in the state.

I'd personally spend the money to file just so someone doesn't try to be a hero and nail you to the wall for skipping out on $house in taxes. You're right in that you don't owe anything, but for that amount of money it's probably worth proving it before someone tries something. If it was like $1000 I wouldn't bother.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

I have a question that was kind of answered previously but I'm failing to still understand.

One of the ways to avoid a underpayment penalty for taxes is

100% of the tax shown on the return for the prior year

Does this mean if your regular salary withholding $ amount for 2021 = at least 100% of your withholding $ amount for 2020, that you will not incur an underpayment penalty if you had a windfall?

I think I owe about $15k in federal capital gains taxes for 2021 (for the first time ever). I'd prefer to separate the cash and let it sit in my account to figure it out at the end of the year, but I'm worried about an underpayment penalty.

Same applies for NYS.

scribe jones
Sep 17, 2008

One of the key problems in the analysis of this puzzling book is to be able to differentiate a real language from meaningless writing.

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

I have a question that was kind of answered previously but I'm failing to still understand.

One of the ways to avoid a underpayment penalty for taxes is

100% of the tax shown on the return for the prior year

Does this mean if your regular salary withholding $ amount for 2021 = at least 100% of your withholding $ amount for 2020, that you will not incur an underpayment penalty if you had a windfall?

I think I owe about $15k in federal capital gains taxes for 2021 (for the first time ever). I'd prefer to separate the cash and let it sit in my account to figure it out at the end of the year, but I'm worried about an underpayment penalty.

Same applies for NYS.

the 100% safe harbor is for the prior year’s total tax (what you owe before withholding, refundable credits, and estimated payments), not your withholding. so if your withholding for 2021 >= the amount of tax on your 2020 1040 on line 24 or whatever, you’re good.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

scribe jones posted:

the 100% safe harbor is for the prior year’s total tax (what you owe before withholding, refundable credits, and estimated payments), not your withholding. so if your withholding for 2021 >= the amount of tax on your 2020 1040 on line 24 or whatever, you’re good.

Ok thank you, I think that makes sense.

Just to make sure I drill this correctly into my brain.

My federal withholding 2020 (no estimated taxes paid, and no credits that I see) ended up with a refund for me (like $500), so as long as my withholding for 2021 is the same or greater (IE I don't change withholding status, move jobs, or make less), then I'll land in the safe harbor and be fine?

State/NYC I owed, so maybe I'll have to look into making an estimated payment there.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

Ok thank you, I think that makes sense.

Just to make sure I drill this correctly into my brain.

My federal withholding 2020 (no estimated taxes paid, and no credits that I see) ended up with a refund for me (like $500), so as long as my withholding for 2021 is the same or greater (IE I don't change withholding status, move jobs, or make less), then I'll land in the safe harbor and be fine?

State/NYC I owed, so maybe I'll have to look into making an estimated payment there.

Given you're saying NYC and "more money" note that there is a little carveout note later in the document that makes it 110% if you made over $150k. So drag out your 2020 return, see if it says ">$150k" on the AGI line, if so, take the Tax line and multiply it by 110% and make sure you pay at least that much this year. You can then true-up penalty free at the end of the year.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

H110Hawk posted:

Given you're saying NYC and "more money" note that there is a little carveout note later in the document that makes it 110% if you made over $150k. So drag out your 2020 return, see if it says ">$150k" on the AGI line, if so, take the Tax line and multiply it by 110% and make sure you pay at least that much this year. You can then true-up penalty free at the end of the year.

Awesome, thanks. It's not over $150k last year so I should be good there. Appreciate the help everyone.

empty whippet box
Jun 9, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
So I just filed my 2020 taxes. I know that these questions may not be answerable.

We haven't filed our 2019 taxes because we still need a w-2 (which is on its way). We are going to do that ASAP. I started a business last year and did my best to enter everything honestly and accurately and it came out saying that I didn't owe any taxes on what I made from it, in large part due to the fact that we operated the business out of our home (got a $2250 deduction for this). I have never done self employment taxes before and my business wasn't registered because mississippi doesn't require sole proprietorships to register. I am worried, though, that some of the above will cause us to get audited or something.

1) is this a reasonable fear and

2) would it hold up our stimuli if we did get audited?

The only reason I'm worried about an audit is because it would delay us getting money that we badly, badly badly need absolutely ASAP. I have receipts for most things and did not lie about anything. So not worried about that.

We didn't get the $600 or the $1400; I claimed the $600 on the return and am expecting $2542 from the return but have no idea when to expect the $1400. If anyone has any words of advice or knowledge, I'm all ears!

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged

empty whippet box posted:

So I just filed my 2020 taxes. I know that these questions may not be answerable.

We haven't filed our 2019 taxes because we still need a w-2 (which is on its way). We are going to do that ASAP. I started a business last year and did my best to enter everything honestly and accurately and it came out saying that I didn't owe any taxes on what I made from it, in large part due to the fact that we operated the business out of our home (got a $2250 deduction for this). I have never done self employment taxes before and my business wasn't registered because mississippi doesn't require sole proprietorships to register. I am worried, though, that some of the above will cause us to get audited or something.

1) is this a reasonable fear and

2) would it hold up our stimuli if we did get audited?

The only reason I'm worried about an audit is because it would delay us getting money that we badly, badly badly need absolutely ASAP. I have receipts for most things and did not lie about anything. So not worried about that.

We didn't get the $600 or the $1400; I claimed the $600 on the return and am expecting $2542 from the return but have no idea when to expect the $1400. If anyone has any words of advice or knowledge, I'm all ears!

While business returns are somewhat more likely to have review issues with the IRS (guess what people screw up most often on their own?), I'm highly skeptical you're going to get flagged unless you have like six figures of income and expenses on the thing. Other factor is the IRS is so drat far behind on reviews right now they may not have anybody to audit you anyway :). So I wouldn't worry about it. As for the $1400, even if they audit your 2020 for some random reason, if you file your 2019 I doubt that one will get caught in anything since you didn't have the business then and they'd probably be able to go by those numbers. Or, worst case I bet there's another recovery rebate credit next year for missing the $1400.

whose tuggin
Nov 6, 2009

by Hand Knit
Hi tax thread, I submitted my 2019 return late, in mid December 2020. I mailed the forms in since the IRS electronic portal closes 90 days after the deadline. I sent my state and federal taxes separately, at the same time (express mail). There is no record in my irs.gov tax transcript of the feds receiving my 2019 1040 form, even after 3+ months. For this reason (I suspect) I didn't receive the 2nd $600 stimulus, and there's no record at all of the 3rd $1400 stimulus when I use the irs Get My Payment tool (https://www.irs.gov/coronavirus/get-my-payment).

The lady at H&R Block refuses to reprint my tax return forms for me to re-send and says that "the IRS is behind on processing tax returns." The IRS hotline is not even putting me on hold, it just straight up says they can't take my call.

How should I proceed, re-send my tax forms? Schedule an appt with a local IRS office?

Thanks

Antivehicular
Dec 30, 2011


I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

Get an appointment, imho. It's far more likely that your existing return is experiencing processing delays than that it got lost, and a second copy will get flagged as a duplicate and cause more delays.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!
Business use of home deductions may be a flag for audit.

Epi Lepi
Oct 29, 2009

You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants

The Scientist posted:

Hi tax thread, I submitted my 2019 return late, in mid December 2020. I mailed the forms in since the IRS electronic portal closes 90 days after the deadline. I sent my state and federal taxes separately, at the same time (express mail). There is no record in my irs.gov tax transcript of the feds receiving my 2019 1040 form, even after 3+ months. For this reason (I suspect) I didn't receive the 2nd $600 stimulus, and there's no record at all of the 3rd $1400 stimulus when I use the irs Get My Payment tool (https://www.irs.gov/coronavirus/get-my-payment).

The lady at H&R Block refuses to reprint my tax return forms for me to re-send and says that "the IRS is behind on processing tax returns." The IRS hotline is not even putting me on hold, it just straight up says they can't take my call.

How should I proceed, re-send my tax forms? Schedule an appt with a local IRS office?

Thanks

Yeah just wait. They are super backed up, it was absolutely the worst year to mail in your return. You would have been better off waiting until e-filing reopened and submitting then.

Antivehicular posted:

Get an appointment, imho. It's far more likely that your existing return is experiencing processing delays than that it got lost, and a second copy will get flagged as a duplicate and cause more delays.

Having said that, I have clients who were not patient at all and said they were willing to take the risk of complicating things by submitting an e-filed return instead of waiting for their first mailed in return to be processed. I fully expect IRS correspondence later but how could it delay the processing further? It seems more likely that the IRS will process their e-filed return and issue their refund before the paper return even gets touched at this rate.

Peyote Panda
Mar 10, 2019

Epi Lepi posted:

Having said that, I have clients who were not patient at all and said they were willing to take the risk of complicating things by submitting an e-filed return instead of waiting for their first mailed in return to be processed. I fully expect IRS correspondence later but how could it delay the processing further? It seems more likely that the IRS will process their e-filed return and issue their refund before the paper return even gets touched at this rate.
As long as the efiled return makes it through the system before the paper return starts processing, there wouldn't be a delay though the filer would probably get a letter asking "What did you want us to do with this?" once the paper return starts getting processed.

OTOH, if the efiled return is still in processing when the paper return enters the system, then everything gets put on hold while the aforementioned letter gets sent out. Then once the processing center gets the response on what the filer intended (which will have to be mailed in and then get stuck in the same backlog as all the other print items) the returns will go through the amended return processing pipeline, which could be an additional 16 weeks plus the usual processing delays.

Yeah, chances are the efile return would probably get through first (I was helping a caller today who filed their 2019 return over 9 months ago and it hadn't even started processing yet, the only way I knew that we had the return at all was that the check he sent with it had been processed with the code indicated it had received with a return), but there is the risk that efiling when a print return is already been submitted would get things even more turbofucked than they are now.

Antivehicular posted:

Get an appointment, imho. It's far more likely that your existing return is experiencing processing delays than that it got lost, and a second copy will get flagged as a duplicate and cause more delays.
Yeah, call the appointment line (844-545-5640), tell them want the appointment, and they'll access the account as part of verifying your identity for the appointment (it's a requirement we have for setting the appointments) and may be able to give you an update over the phone. I'm mentioning that because one of the stupid hoops we have to jump through on the appointment line is that if someone just wants help and accepts it over the phone, then they get transferred to our standard phone line, whereas if the caller specifically says they want an appointment the scheduler will as part of the above scheduling procedure also try to see if they can help you over the phone right then (but will still schedule the appointment if needed of course).

Alternatively, try calling the toll-free line (800-829-1040) toward the end of the day (they're open 7AM-7PM local time as long as you're in the continental US, same as the appointment line), especially if you're not in the East Coast timezone. That has the bulk of the US population so once it falls off the national lines at 7PM EST the call volume drops quite a bit. In our West Coast call sites the lines actually have dead space between calls sometimes in the later hours because of that.

It's definitely a good idea to find out what's going on because it's entirely possible the print return's sitting untouched on a pile somewhere but it could easily be in processing and experiencing delays as Antivehicular said and it could possibly even be something where the IRS sent out a letter asking for more information to complete processing the return or something similar that got lost in the mail, and in those cases we can either get the letter reissued or let you know what's needed and how to send it in.

whose tuggin
Nov 6, 2009

by Hand Knit
Thanks for what turned out to be very good advice.

Called the appt line, mentioned that I'd like an appt. but she was extremely helpful and actually figured out that I had a $1000 refund for my american opportunities tax credit from 2017 still chilling in the system, so she got that sent out to me. The status of my 2019 return is still Known Not But to God but at least the $1000 will keep me afloat for a bit.

Peyote Panda posted:

Yeah, call the appointment line (844-545-5640), tell them want the appointment, and they'll access the account as part of verifying your identity for the appointment (it's a requirement we have for setting the appointments) and may be able to give you an update over the phone. I'm mentioning that because one of the stupid hoops we have to jump through on the appointment line is that if someone just wants help and accepts it over the phone, then they get transferred to our standard phone line, whereas if the caller specifically says they want an appointment the scheduler will as part of the above scheduling procedure also try to see if they can help you over the phone right then (but will still schedule the appointment if needed of course).


Epi Lepi posted:

Yeah just wait. They are super backed up, it was absolutely the worst year to mail in your return. You would have been better off waiting until e-filing reopened and submitting then.


These are 2 extremely pro tips, thanks. I didn't know you could e-file for previous years when the IRS system is open.


In y'all's opinions would it be advisable to claim that special $600 tax credit for people that didn't receive the additional stimulus but who know that they're eligible? Even if my 2019 taxes havent been processed by the time that I file for 2020?

empty whippet box
Jun 9, 2004

by Fluffdaddy

MadDogMike posted:

While business returns are somewhat more likely to have review issues with the IRS (guess what people screw up most often on their own?), I'm highly skeptical you're going to get flagged unless you have like six figures of income and expenses on the thing. Other factor is the IRS is so drat far behind on reviews right now they may not have anybody to audit you anyway :). So I wouldn't worry about it. As for the $1400, even if they audit your 2020 for some random reason, if you file your 2019 I doubt that one will get caught in anything since you didn't have the business then and they'd probably be able to go by those numbers. Or, worst case I bet there's another recovery rebate credit next year for missing the $1400.

what....I have to file 2019 to get the $1400? I mean, we're going to, but that seems crazy to me. the 2020 return won't get that going? or do you just mean if the 2020 return gets audited? e: I'm pretty sure that's what you meant lol

empty whippet box fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Mar 20, 2021

urnisme
Dec 24, 2011

The Scientist posted:

In y'all's opinions would it be advisable to claim that special $600 tax credit for people that didn't receive the additional stimulus but who know that they're eligible? Even if my 2019 taxes havent been processed by the time that I file for 2020?

Yes. The $600, like the $1200 before it, was an estimated prepayment of the credit that appears in the 2020 return. If you haven't gotten the $600 yet, the only way to get it is to claim it on the 2020 return.

Empty Whippet Box posted:

what....I have to file 2019 to get the $1400? I mean, we're going to, but that seems crazy to me. the 2020 return won't get that going? or do you just mean if the 2020 return gets audited? e: I'm pretty sure that's what you meant lol

Yeah, if the 2020 gets caught up in processing because something flagged, they won't be able to estimate your eligibility for the $1400. Then they would look for a 2019 return to estimate eligibility and pay it. If you miss out during this round of payments in the spring, you would have the ability to claim the $1400 as a credit on your 2021 return next year.

Duckman2008
Jan 6, 2010

TFW you see Flyers goaltending.
Grimey Drawer
So the new Dem billed that passed involves waiting taxes on unemployment income for 2020. Which we had. And i of course try to be proactive and file my taxes early, so of course I already paid the Fed these now waived taxes.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/2020-jobless-benefits-tax-exempt-10200-explained/story?id=76562876

“Should those Americans who have already filed taxes without knowing about the $10,200 exemption file an amended return?

"Absolutely not," the head of the Internal Revenue Service Charles Rettig said in testimony on Capitol Hill Thursday.

"We believe we’re sensitive to the situation that people are in. We believe that we will be able to handle this on our own. We believe that we will be able to automatically issue refunds associated with the $10,200," Rettig told lawmakers.

It may mean that Americans who did take the tax break will have to wait for any refund they're entitled to as the IRS works to process a huge backlog. Retting told Congress he hopes to have the backlog processed by "summer." “


So, ok, it looks like I’ll get an automatic refund from the Fed, and I guess it’ll just possibly take until the summer time. But if anyone knows more, please let me know.

The article says some states are waiving their taxes but doesn’t go into which ones. Has anyone seen anything on how individual states are handling this cluster gently caress ?

urnisme
Dec 24, 2011

Duckman2008 posted:

The article says some states are waiving their taxes but doesn’t go into which ones. Has anyone seen anything on how individual states are handling this cluster gently caress ?

This is a summary my tax software put out https://kb.drakesoftware.com/Site/Browse/17148/State-Conformity-to-ARP-Unemployment-Compensation

If your taxable income at the state level will change from what you already filed you'll want to check your state's tax department to see if you need to amend or not. I'm in Nebraska, and I expect that we will have to amend Nebraska returns because Nebraska is following the federal on this, but Nebraska starts off by just importing the federal AGI and then making certain adjustments. So I don't think Nebraska revenue will know how much of your federal AGI came from unemployment to know how much it should be reduced. They haven't announced anything yet, so we're telling taxpayers to wait until after the deadline before we try to amend anything.

Cowslips Warren
Oct 29, 2005

What use had they for tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?

Grimey Drawer
I got all the stim money set aside because part of me is terrified of being IRS Audited. For no reason other than remembering my parents having a bad fight with their accountant one year; he had been playing too loosely with poo poo with them, and other clients, and he got audited, which meant everyone had problems because the IRS does not gently caress around.

I got more back in taxes than usual last year. No new deductions. Anyone else have those fears of loving up something in simple math and tax input?

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Cute but fanged

Cowslips Warren posted:

I got all the stim money set aside because part of me is terrified of being IRS Audited. For no reason other than remembering my parents having a bad fight with their accountant one year; he had been playing too loosely with poo poo with them, and other clients, and he got audited, which meant everyone had problems because the IRS does not gently caress around.

I got more back in taxes than usual last year. No new deductions. Anyone else have those fears of loving up something in simple math and tax input?

If it's any consolation, I've seen the IRS and states make those math errors too. Nothing quite as amusing as trying to figure out a polite way to tell an agency they calculated their own tax wrong on their letter response, especially since your first inevitable first response is going over your own math repeatedly as a sanity check of course.

urnisme posted:

This is a summary my tax software put out https://kb.drakesoftware.com/Site/Browse/17148/State-Conformity-to-ARP-Unemployment-Compensation

If your taxable income at the state level will change from what you already filed you'll want to check your state's tax department to see if you need to amend or not. I'm in Nebraska, and I expect that we will have to amend Nebraska returns because Nebraska is following the federal on this, but Nebraska starts off by just importing the federal AGI and then making certain adjustments. So I don't think Nebraska revenue will know how much of your federal AGI came from unemployment to know how much it should be reduced. They haven't announced anything yet, so we're telling taxpayers to wait until after the deadline before we try to amend anything.

If you have a state subtracting unemployment I'd double check the results carefully; found an issue myself where I saw software subtracting $10,200 for the new federal waiver then the full amount for my state (which isn't taxing unemployment this year) from the reduced federal AGI, thus accidently double dipping. Fortunately since I'm expected to know what I'm doing with taxes I have the ability in said software to adjust to the correct numbers (either zero the state subtraction if the unemployment is below/equal to $10,200, or just subtract the amount above that), but other software with similar issues might not have that capability if it's public facing and expects you're too clueless about taxes to know what to change.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!
NBER paper out from JSRP that heavily reshapes their tax gap assumptions. I'm suspicious of the timing and will not have the chance to dig into the assumptions required for quite awhile.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


How much of a pain in the rear end is amending your taxes after the fact? I've got a 1095-A that I know very well is incorrect and shouldn't even have been made, and if I file without that info and later have to add it is that a difficult process? I normally just do my taxes through turbo tax, if that has any bearing on it.

dpkg chopra
Jun 9, 2007

Fast Food Fight

Grimey Drawer

Discendo Vox posted:

NBER paper out from JSRP that heavily reshapes their tax gap assumptions. I'm suspicious of the timing and will not have the chance to dig into the assumptions required for quite awhile.

I didn't go into data because it's way over my head but the conclusions seem to line up with other reporting in the last few years? Rich people avoid way more tax than poor people, random audits are either bad at catching the avoidance or recovering money is too expensive due to rich people having lawyers, so IRS avoids enforcing.

Epi Lepi
Oct 29, 2009

You can hear the voice
Telling you to Love
It's the voice of MK Ultra
And you're doing what it wants

CainFortea posted:

How much of a pain in the rear end is amending your taxes after the fact? I've got a 1095-A that I know very well is incorrect and shouldn't even have been made, and if I file without that info and later have to add it is that a difficult process? I normally just do my taxes through turbo tax, if that has any bearing on it.

Is there a reason you're not trying to get the 1095-A corrected? Cause that's what you should be doing. The IRS will not process your return without it and will send you a letter telling you to send them the 8962 with it, but then not process that paperwork for 6 months because of the backlog they're dealing with.

So try to get it fixed and THEN file your taxes.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012
Yeah, what Epi Lepi said, if you haven't filed yet, just get a corrected 1095-A and then file. It will be easier for everyone involved. If you already have filed, may god have mercy on your soul.

PageMaster
Nov 4, 2009
In my ongoing tax adventures for filing taxes while having done an early IRA withdrawal due to disability, I've talked with:

1) Finance institute which tells me they can't certify eligibility for disability, only the IRS, and so withdraw will be coded as early withdrawal on 1099-R

2) TSP, which tells me that they can't certify eligibility, but that does not mean I'm not, but only IRS will do that so they can't code as a disability qualified distribution and only as an early withdraw on the 1099-R.

3) IRS tax support: agent certified on the phone that I meet the requirements for the IRS to view my withdrawals as qualified distributions, but that there is no way to actually do this on a tax form.

4) CPA, which prepared and submitted two "corrected 1099-R's" which will flag me with the IRS who will then send me a naughty letter because my 1099-R amounts don't match (and also have the IRS working with the financial institutes to get a correct 1099-R), after which we will get a tax intervener who will talk with the IRS to explain why taxes are filed as they are and most likely (hopefully) we move on; if not, we go to tax court (Whatever that is) to solve it there. That seems like an awfully indirect and potentially incorrect way to get where we're trying to go, despite everyone saying we are actually understanding the IRS rules correctly. It's been 6 weeks to get here and we're about to push the button and just file so I'm wondering if anyone has any experience or knowledge on this that I can help unscrew this issue before we just run with it.

Edit: potential outcome is apparently that the IRS reads the little footnote in the bottom of the corrected 1099-R and just agree that everything is at if should be and we never hear about it again! I hope the IRS is at least quick about this rather than waiting a couple years to have a discussion.

PageMaster fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Mar 24, 2021

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
https://support.taxslayerpro.com/hc/en-us/articles/360009304773-Form-1099-R-Distribution-Due-to-Disability

TaxSlayer seems to handle it via some other form.

Reading the instructions on that form 5329 you just out in code 02 and exempt it. Then you're done.

H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Mar 24, 2021

Peyote Panda
Mar 10, 2019

PageMaster posted:

In my ongoing tax adventures for filing taxes while having done an early IRA withdrawal due to disability, I've talked with:

1) Finance institute which tells me they can't certify eligibility for disability, only the IRS, and so withdraw will be coded as early withdrawal on 1099-R

2) TSP, which tells me that they can't certify eligibility, but that does not mean I'm not, but only IRS will do that so they can't code as a disability qualified distribution and only as an early withdraw on the 1099-R.

3) IRS tax support: agent certified on the phone that I meet the requirements for the IRS to view my withdrawals as qualified distributions, but that there is no way to actually do this on a tax form.

4) CPA, which prepared and submitted two "corrected 1099-R's" which will flag me with the IRS who will then send me a naughty letter because my 1099-R amounts don't match (and also have the IRS working with the financial institutes to get a correct 1099-R), after which we will get a tax intervener who will talk with the IRS to explain why taxes are filed as they are and most likely (hopefully) we move on; if not, we go to tax court (Whatever that is) to solve it there. That seems like an awfully indirect and potentially incorrect way to get where we're trying to go, despite everyone saying we are actually understanding the IRS rules correctly. It's been 6 weeks to get here and we're about to push the button and just file so I'm wondering if anyone has any experience or knowledge on this that I can help unscrew this issue before we just run with it.
Just to make sure I understand everything correctly, you are considered permanently and totally disabled and thus qualify for the exception for the early withdrawal penalty for your IRA, but the 1099-Rs show it as an early distribution, no exceptions (Box 7 has a code of 1). If that's the case, you should be able file a Form 5329 with your return. Part 1 of that form has provisions for indicating the exception for the early distribution even if it's not coded that way on the 1099-Rs themselves. If you have any documentation of the disability you may want to include that with the return as a supporting document (even if you're filing electronically, the efile software should have provisions to download and attach scanned forms). It doesn't have to include detailed or extensive documentation at this point, essentially just something showing the medical determination that you were certified permanently and totally disabled at the time of the distribution.

If you're submitting "corrected 1099-Rs", that should really be done using a 4852 to report the correct information and attach the 1099-Rs as a supporting document for that form. However, unless I'm missing something the first option above would be the way to go.

I'm just uncertain at this point as this kind of coding issue isn't an unusual circumstance for an IRA distribution, so I'm not sure why the people in parts 3 or 4 of the above either weren't aware of or didn't suggest either of the above options.

Edit: the additional form referred to in that TaxSlayer link is the same form I was referring to, the 5329.

PageMaster
Nov 4, 2009

Peyote Panda posted:

Just to make sure I understand everything correctly, you are considered permanently and totally disabled and thus qualify for the exception for the early withdrawal penalty for your IRA, but the 1099-Rs show it as an early distribution, no exceptions (Box 7 has a code of 1). If that's the case, you should be able file a Form 5329 with your return. Part 1 of that form has provisions for indicating the exception for the early distribution even if it's not coded that way on the 1099-Rs themselves. If you have any documentation of the disability you may want to include that with the return as a supporting document (even if you're filing electronically, the efile software should have provisions to download and attach scanned forms). It doesn't have to include detailed or extensive documentation at this point, essentially just something showing the medical determination that you were certified permanently and totally disabled at the time of the distribution.

If you're submitting "corrected 1099-Rs", that should really be done using a 4852 to report the correct information and attach the 1099-Rs as a supporting document for that form. However, unless I'm missing something the first option above would be the way to go.

I'm just uncertain at this point as this kind of coding issue isn't an unusual circumstance for an IRA distribution, so I'm not sure why the people in parts 3 or 4 of the above either weren't aware of or didn't suggest either of the above options.

Edit: the additional form referred to in that TaxSlayer link is the same form I was referring to, the 5329.

You're correct on totally and permanently disabled, and we're aware of the 5329 (and that's something I could file myself) to exempt the tax penalty on the withdrawal. However, the IRS also states that any roth earnings that are withdrawn due to P&T disability are classified as qualified distributions and thus tax exempt, which is causing the problems. As Vanguard and TSP don't make the decision on disability, their 1099-R's have the earnings as taxable because they were withdrawn before turning 59 1/2, and there's no form specifically to change that to non-taxable qualified amounts, JUST to exempt the 10% additional tax penalty. IRS help line couldn't figure out how to do this, and the CPA is using the corrected 1099-R where they can put in the code for qualified distributions, change the taxable amount, and write a paragraph at the bottom on why. I've asked them to include my medical documents in the return as well now.

I agree with you that this should not be an unusual circumstance (which is why I went to a CPA in the first place because I couldn't figure it out when I assumed it's just a box or a form somewhere I missed), and simple google and reading of the IRS rules spell it out very clearly, it's just NO ONE seems to know how to do it.

Edit: should clarify when I say IRS I mean the two IRS tax support agents on their phone hotline.

PageMaster fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Mar 24, 2021

Peyote Panda
Mar 10, 2019

PageMaster posted:

IRS help line couldn't figure out how to do this, and the CPA is using the corrected 1099-R where they can put in the code for qualified distributions, change the taxable amount, and write a paragraph at the bottom on why. I've asked them to include my medical documents in the return as well now.
For that, I'd suggest filing a 4852 for each 1099-R in question with the original 1099-Rs attached as supporting documents. That's the standard form used for filing with an incorrect or missing W2 or 1099-R and it allows reporting the corrected information with specifically delineated sections on the form where you can explain what changes you made and why (as well as your attempts to get a corrected form) so it's immediately obvious to the processing center what's going on.

That may be what the CPA is referring to as the "corrected 1099-R", but from what you described it sounds like he's just going to input the 1099-Rs with the changes and add a note. The 4852 does the same thing, but makes the situation much clearer to submission processing and may immensely simplify any additional documentation or steps that are needed.

PageMaster
Nov 4, 2009

Peyote Panda posted:

For that, I'd suggest filing a 4852 for each 1099-R in question with the original 1099-Rs attached as supporting documents. That's the standard form used for filing with an incorrect or missing W2 or 1099-R and it allows reporting the corrected information with specifically delineated sections on the form where you can explain what changes you made and why (as well as your attempts to get a corrected form) so it's immediately obvious to the processing center what's going on.

That may be what the CPA is referring to as the "corrected 1099-R", but from what you described it sounds like he's just going to input the 1099-Rs with the changes and add a note. The 4852 does the same thing, but makes the situation much clearer to submission processing and may immensely simplify any additional documentation or steps that are needed.

Thanks for this. I pulled up one of their draft returns they were working and it looks like the form you mentioned is what they were using. I think the CPA is lining up with your recommendation at least.

CainFortea
Oct 15, 2004


Epi Lepi posted:

Is there a reason you're not trying to get the 1095-A corrected? Cause that's what you should be doing. The IRS will not process your return without it and will send you a letter telling you to send them the 8962 with it, but then not process that paperwork for 6 months because of the backlog they're dealing with.

So try to get it fixed and THEN file your taxes.

The reason is because I can't get a stimulus until I file, and I can't get my return, and i've been out of work for over 3 months due to a neck injury I only recently got fixed.

But it sounds like a loving nightmare to fix after the fact, so I guess i'm waiting.

Peyote Panda
Mar 10, 2019

PageMaster posted:

Thanks for this. I pulled up one of their draft returns they were working and it looks like the form you mentioned is what they were using. I think the CPA is lining up with your recommendation at least.
Cool! About the only other thing I'd recommend (and again, the CPA may be doing this already) is specifically citing that the non-taxable qualified parts of the Roth IRA distribution meets the Qualified Distribution rule in IRS Publication 590-B even though it is not coded that way on the 1099-R. I'm just throwing that in because sometimes citing the specific source of the IRS rules in question may help with processing. Basically anything you can do to make things explicit and minimize the amount of actual research needed at the processing center can help, especially at this time when they're harried more than usual.

No guarantees though. I remember one case where I was looking over the scanned documents the taxpayer's accountant had sent in which included a photocopied page of the publication with the specific rule the filing was relying on highlighted and underlined and the processing center still sent the equivalent of a "Durrrr, I don't get it" notice. :rolleyes:

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Peyote Panda
Mar 10, 2019

CainFortea posted:

The reason is because I can't get a stimulus until I file, and I can't get my return, and i've been out of work for over 3 months due to a neck injury I only recently got fixed.

But it sounds like a loving nightmare to fix after the fact, so I guess i'm waiting.
Just to clarify, it's not about fixing it after the fact. You wouldn't get any stimulus payment until the return is fully processed and if you file with a missing or incorrect 8962 you'll run into that delay previously mentioned. The marketplace also reports their information to the IRS, so if a 1095-A was issued under your Social Security Number and there's no 8962 or an incorrect one attached to the return it's going to get flagged automatically and a 12C letter will get sent out asking for you to send in the needed documentation and then your return will enter the hellworld of manual processing.

Speaking of which, a quick head's up to you preparers out there: the ERS system right now that sends out those letters requesting additional information when needed is massively more hosed than usual right now. In previous years, returns that seemed to be missing information or documents got flagged and then reviewed pretty quickly (within a few days) where either the processing center figured it out or sent the 12C letter requesting specific additional information to finish the return. But I've been seeing a bunch of this years returns sitting in ERS for weeks now in their initial status where we've had it for longer than the normal processing timeframe and no one's even actually looked at it to see what's wrong yet. The system that flags these for review doesn't indicate what the actual potential issue is so we can't even tell callers what might be the problem except in a few obvious cases (self-employment income with no Schedule C or SE attached or the like).

To add to the hilarity, when the return is in that status it no longer shows up in Where's My Refund at all so it looks like the return has disappeared entirely, which isn't exactly helping taxpayers enhance their calm.

Overall, adding up to be a great fuckin' tax season.

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