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Ka0
Sep 16, 2002


AS A PROUD GAMERGATER THE ONLY THING I HATE MORE THAN WOMEN ARE GAYS AND TRANS PEOPLE


I'm going to sound like a dick, but would it kill illustrators to draw Wolverine in a pose that is not "arms crossed claws out" for once.
Not that I care, if I looked carefully I would fine a billion examples in this post x-men-saturated age.

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Heresiarch
Oct 6, 2005

Literature is not exhaustible, for the sufficient and simple reason that no single book is. A book is not an isolated being: it is a relationship, an axis of innumerable relationships.


muscles like this? posted:

While I like Paul Pope in general he has this problem where characters he draws end up kind of... ugly. Not poorly drawn but just kind of ugly in general.

I've always felt that his characters often come across as very deliberately imperfect. Even the good-looking ones can feel more real because they're rarely drawn with perfect, model-like expressions.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


Heresiarch posted:

I've always felt that his characters often come across as very deliberately imperfect. Even the good-looking ones can feel more real because they're rarely drawn with perfect, model-like expressions.

See: Frank Quitely, Richard Corben, any artist that is actually good but is untypical of "comic book art".

Zachack
Jun 1, 2000





Fun Shoe

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

See: Frank Quitely, Richard Corben, any artist that is actually good but is untypical of "comic book art".
I think Quitely is pretty "typical" (albeit better than average) until you get to the potato-heads, and I consider that more of a very focused ineptitude unlike Pope's specific style. I think rear end succeeds in large part due to excellent inking and coloring.

Cefte posted:

I've always felt that his characters often come across as very deliberately imperfect.
I like to think of them as images of people in motion, where things are slightly out of place because that's how the human body is. Almost like an anti-Ross.

Zachack fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Apr 12, 2011

SkellingTon Loc
Oct 24, 2005

I was feelin' horny and ornery hornery

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

See: Frank Quitely, Richard Corben, any artist that is actually good but is untypical of "comic book art".

Nathan Fox is probably one of the most extreme artists in this category. I still love his stuff, tho. It's so dynamic and awesome to look at.

It kinda sucks that no one has mentioned John Paul Leon yet. People keep referring to him as the successor to Toth and it's so true. If you still haven't picked up The Wintermen you're a big fat dummy and you're missing out on some of the best art ever seen in a comic book.

The Missing Link
Aug 13, 2008

Should do fine against cats.


Wasn't rear end colored directly on top of pencils?

Sprecherscrow
Dec 20, 2009


The Missing Link posted:

Wasn't rear end colored directly on top of pencils?

Frank Quitely posted:

Now, I've had traditional inking on my pencils on The Invisibles, The Authority, and New X-Men - four or five different inkers on X-Men. And what I like about inking is the different weights of line that you get. But what I don't like about having different inkers working on my stuff is that very small changes to eyes and mouths and things, for example, can really change an expression altogether. So the type of digital inking that Jamie Grant's been doing for me, what happens is that I draw the pencils to a very tight finish I pencil them in blue-line first, and then I effectively "ink" with graphite pencils on top of that. Jamie then takes that finished linework, scans it, and puts it into Photoshop.

Now you know when you do a photocopy, you can do a really light copy or a really dark one with the light one, some of the thinner lines are going to break up; and with the dark one, lines that are close together are going to clog together. So he does a light and a dark scan, and blends the two of them. And what I like about that is that it's actually still my linework that's there, and facial expressions and so on don't change. What I'm not as keen on is that you don't get the different weight of lines that you do with brushes and pens. So it's swings and roundabouts, really.

from this interview with Quitely: http://www.denofgeek.com/comics/119...nk_quitely.html

Mr Wind Up Bird
Jan 23, 2004

i'm a goddamn coward
but then again so are you


You know who actually sucks? Greg Horn



Go away Greg Horn you've never drawn anything good ever.

Beanpants
Oct 26, 2004



Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

You know who actually sucks? Greg Horn



Go away Greg Horn you've never drawn anything good ever.

Yeah, all of those prints he was showing off at Wondercon made me want to vomit. He's basically got it all, in terms of poo poo I hate about art in the comic industry:

Overly photo referenced to the point where everything looks plastic and dead
Completely garbage content
Gross sexual exploitation of characters. The only reason this exists is to give a fat dork a fat dork.

EDIT: I just noticed that Batman's left leg just disappears after it goes behind Catwoman, and her left leg doesn't even connect to the ground plane. It's like she's lifting her leg to pee or somethinaww gently caress it it's not even worth dissecting gently caress you Greg Horn gently caress you

Beanpants fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Apr 12, 2011

rotinaj
Sep 4, 2008






Fun Shoe

Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

You know who actually sucks? Greg Horn



Go away Greg Horn you've never drawn anything good ever.

I like how her mask, formerly face-covering goggles, has now become absolutely extraneous.

Heresiarch
Oct 6, 2005

Literature is not exhaustible, for the sufficient and simple reason that no single book is. A book is not an isolated being: it is a relationship, an axis of innumerable relationships.


Zachack posted:

Cefte posted:


I've always felt that his characters often come across as very deliberately imperfect.

I like to think of them as images of people in motion, where things are slightly out of place because that's how the human body is. Almost like an anti-Ross.

This isn't the first time this has happened, but I am not Cefte. I do understand the confusion, as there are a number of us with b/w avatars of a dead author and I understand we tend to blend together like supernatural investigators wearing trenchcoats.

Mister Roboto
Jun 15, 2009

I SWING BY AUNT MAY's
FOR A SHOWER AND A
BITE, MOST NATURAL
THING IN THE WORLD,
ASSUMING SHE'S
NOT HOME...

...AND I
FIND HER IN BED
WITH MY
FATHER, AND THE
TWO OF THEM
ARE...ARE...

...AAAAAAAAUUUUGH!

Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

You know who actually sucks? Greg Horn



Go away Greg Horn you've never drawn anything good ever.

You can't be serious. Under what possible context did this cover fly?

CAROL
Oct 29, 2009

BAN THEIR PUNCHABLE FACE


Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

You know who actually sucks? Greg Horn



Go away Greg Horn you've never drawn anything good ever.

Where's his cape

Songbearer
Jul 12, 2007




Fuck you say?


Octaviar Polexa posted:

Where's his cape

I think the black zepplin following him is it

Darth Nat
Aug 24, 2007

It all comes out right in the end.


Mister Roboto posted:

You can't be serious. Under what possible context did this cover fly?

I don't think it's an actual cover, just something he drew to sell.

Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005


it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.





Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

You know who actually sucks? Greg Horn



Go away Greg Horn you've never drawn anything good ever.

I thought I'd seen the worst of Greg Horn with his ridiculous Emma Frost and Elektra covers but that's just beyond disgusting.

ParliamentOfDogs
Jan 29, 2009

My genre's thriller... What's yours?

Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

You know who actually sucks? Greg Horn



Go away Greg Horn you've never drawn anything good ever.


The mask looks a lot like glasses and combined with the brownish hair it looks nothing like Catwoman. That right there is the creepiest part, because I have to assume there is some poor woman who lives in his apartment building that has no idea he is drawing her face onto these horrors/expressions of severe sexual frustration.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


Zachack posted:

I think Quitely is pretty "typical" (albeit better than average) until you get to the potato-heads, and I consider that more of a very focused ineptitude unlike Pope's specific style. I think rear end succeeds in large part due to excellent inking and coloring.

Yeah, no. The fact that you can compare Quitely to Paul Pope and not, say Ale Garza or whoever suggests a pretty wide gulf.







You may not like the way he draws, but clearly there is a great level of craft in the way he composes scenes, gives a sense of weight and geometry, conveys really expressive body language, and so on. You'd have to read a lot of comics to come up with good examples of even one of these things, much less all of them, and even then you're comparing him to the best in the mainstream comics industry.

Mr Wind Up Bird
Jan 23, 2004

i'm a goddamn coward
but then again so are you


We3 should be used as a textbook on how to convey action with animals. Everything he does is brilliant from conveying their size and speed to how they perceive their environment. He took what was undoubtedly a difficult script and concept and knocked it out of the goddamn park.

The only artist better than Quietly at giving things a sense of scale and power is probably Geoff Darrow and even then he doesn't really have the story telling ability Quietly does.

edit: seriously look at this

Mr Wind Up Bird fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Apr 12, 2011

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

We3 should be used as a textbook on how to convey action with animals. Everything he does is brilliant from conveying their size and speed to how they perceive their environment. He took what was undoubtedly a difficult script and concept and knocked it out of the goddamn park.

The only artist better than Quietly at giving things a sense of scale and power is probably Geoff Darrow and even then he doesn't really have the story telling ability Quietly does.

I think James Stokoe is an excellent example of this, too.

bairfanx
Jan 20, 2006

I look like this IRL,
but, you know,
more Greg Land-y.


HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

I think James Stokoe is an excellent example of this, too.

I didn't post Brandon Graham because I assumed someone else had. Either way, I can't hear Stokoe's name without thinking of Graham, if only because they keep praising each other's work. Nobody does cities like Graham.

bairfanx fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Apr 12, 2011

Mr Wind Up Bird
Jan 23, 2004

i'm a goddamn coward
but then again so are you


My only problem with Brandon Graham is that it's really hard to find back issues of King City and there's no trade!

bairfanx
Jan 20, 2006

I look like this IRL,
but, you know,
more Greg Land-y.


Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

My only problem with Brandon Graham is that it's really hard to find back issues of King City and there's no trade!

Graham's said that talks of a trade are in the works (and he's hoping to do it with Image, which assumedly means it'll be Cowboy/Ninja/Viking size rather than digest), but yeah, finding back issues is kind of a pain. I'm pretty sure that if you look around the online back-issue shops, you can piece together most of it.

Humboldt Squid
Jan 21, 2006



Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

You know who actually sucks? Greg Horn



Go away Greg Horn you've never drawn anything good ever.

There's some weird things going on with gaze in this pic. Super sexualized catwoman but the composition leads your eye right to batman's batwang.

Humboldt Squid fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Apr 12, 2011

Yannick_B
Oct 11, 2007


Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

You know who actually sucks? Greg Horn



Go away Greg Horn you've never drawn anything good ever.

"Adam Hughes does those sexyish, funny covers right? Lemme give it a try!"

Mr Wind Up Bird
Jan 23, 2004

i'm a goddamn coward
but then again so are you


I always kind of admired Adam Hughes because even though he's basically built his whole career on Power Girl popping out of her outfit I don't think I've ever looked at something he's drawn and been repulsed like I am when I'm subjected something Greg Horn has done. Something about his pinups just feel more...fun? I guess? It's kind of hard to pin down.

And speaking of pinups did y'all see Quitely's thing he was selling for CBLDF?



Adorable.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

I always kind of admired Adam Hughes because even though he's basically built his whole career on Power Girl popping out of her outfit I don't think I've ever looked at something he's drawn and been repulsed like I am when I'm subjected something Greg Horn has done.

I agree with that. But I still kinda rolled my eyes when I saw his covers for Catwoman, maybe especially because the Brubaker run was almost no focus on t&a. But suddenly Catwoman's cleavage and not her personality was important (this is as much the new writer's fault as the artists though). And none of those covers were as bad as Greg Horn's.
But I really liked this cover though:

IS the one cover where Catwoman seems like a human.

Mr Wind Up Bird
Jan 23, 2004

i'm a goddamn coward
but then again so are you


I love that cover except for her hand blaughh what happened?

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



Crappy art - Humberto Ramos:



Excellent art - Steve Epting:



That Greg Horn art is basically a war crime though.

JackDarko
Sep 30, 2009

"Amala, I've got a chainsaw on my arm. I'll be fine."

DarkCrawler posted:

Crappy art - Humberto Ramos:



Excellent art - Steve Epting:



That Greg Horn art is basically a war crime though.

I like Humberto Ramos he definitely knows what he is doing and has a mastery of the craft, that being said his work does split people into they either like it or hate it. He isn't crappy though, you just don't like his style, he's a pretty fantastic storyteller.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Bad art:

Juan Jose Ryp

Awesome art:

Peter Madsen

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009



Not really sure what there is to like about Ramos, all his characters look like they have been made out of silly putty, there are like three different faces he can pull off and whenever I read a comic with him on art my eyes just glaze over because I can't be bothered to start looking and what the mess on the page is supposed to be. His style would be good for conveying motion but it doesn't matter because his characters look wonky as hell regardless of what they are doing. Despite extremely busy scenes when you focus on a certain part you see that the characters don't have really that much detail on them if there are more then a single character in the panel.

but whatever, I guess

Crisco Kid
Jan 14, 2008

Where does the wind come from that blows upon your face, that fans the pages of your book?


bairfanx posted:

I didn't post Brandon Graham because I assumed someone else had. Either way, I can't hear Stokoe's name without thinking of Graham, if only because they keep praising each other's work. Nobody does cities like Graham.


I like Brandon Grahams's newer stuff, but his old art is really stiff. The technical work that makes his cities and machinery look great translated badly to his figures, but you can see the effort he's put in to correct that over the last few years.

Someone posted some Sean Gordon Murphy, and he's another guy whose inks look about ten times better than the final colored product unless the coloring is handled with a light, subdued touch.


Inking and coloring a book is an unreasonable amount of work to ask of every artist, but I think there's a clear difference in quality between guys like Cameron Stewart (and sometimes Sean Murphy) who produce beautiful, careful inking that often gets destroyed by over-rendered "house style" coloring, and guys like Stokoe who color their own work and the results are a huge enhancement - or even Mignola, who works closely with his colorist and makes a lot of the decisions.

Oh, and here's some Sheldon Vella, who's done art for Deadpool, Strange Tales, Kill Audio and SUPERTRON. He's the other corner of the Stokoe-Graham triad.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

It was all going well, and then the parademons showed up


Fallen Rib

Alhazred posted:

I agree with that. But I still kinda rolled my eyes when I saw his covers for Catwoman, maybe especially because the Brubaker run was almost no focus on t&a. But suddenly Catwoman's cleavage and not her personality was important (this is as much the new writer's fault as the artists though). And none of those covers were as bad as Greg Horn's.
But I really liked this cover though:

IS the one cover where Catwoman seems like a human.

I might be wrong but wasn't there a bit of a case where the edited the Catwoman covers to make her look more....er.....sexualised? Like lowering the zip to show her chest and stuff like that. I don't really remember much but I recall something like that.

Ka0
Sep 16, 2002


AS A PROUD GAMERGATER THE ONLY THING I HATE MORE THAN WOMEN ARE GAYS AND TRANS PEOPLE


Humberto Ramos is like Madureira in respect that he is never going to bother learning to draw a human face which remotely looks human.

BizarroAzrael
Apr 6, 2006

"That must weigh heavily on your soul. Let me purge it for you."

Ka0 posted:

Humberto Ramos is like Madureira in respect that he is never going to bother learning to draw a human face which remotely looks human.



It's stylised and exaggerated, but you can tell what the expression is. I honestly really dig the expressiveness and character he puts into it, and movement and flow of his work, I think he's an ideal Spider-man artist.

Optional smart-rear end answer; Thor isn't human.

Mr Wind Up Bird
Jan 23, 2004

i'm a goddamn coward
but then again so are you


Madkal posted:

I might be wrong but wasn't there a bit of a case where the edited the Catwoman covers to make her look more....er.....sexualised? Like lowering the zip to show her chest and stuff like that. I don't really remember much but I recall something like that.
I think it got brought up in the covers book that came out a few months ago (great book BTW just so expensive) and I'm pretty sure it was something that came down from the top, if I remember. Sexy cleavage Catwoman is going to sell more books than zipped up Catwoman these are just the facts in the business.

Anyway more cool art:

Inio Asano does some really great stuff with facial expressions and body language that really sell whatever emotions he's trying to convey. A certain ex-mod typed up a blog post about how he managed to make one of the most satisfying kisses in comic books. There's a lot of really neat stuff going on in those panels that really requires a sharp eye for how humans tend to interact. It's a delicate thing that can be easy to overdo or just as easily lapse into cliche.

Plus he draws cute hipster girls in a neat minimalistic style


He's certainly able to draw a photo-realistic face but instead he goes for more of cartoony look to make the girls more expressive and fun to look at. I dig it a lot.

Ka0
Sep 16, 2002


AS A PROUD GAMERGATER THE ONLY THING I HATE MORE THAN WOMEN ARE GAYS AND TRANS PEOPLE


BizarroAzrael posted:

Optional smart-rear end answer; Thor isn't human.

Yeah I saw that coming the second I hit the reply button.

Crisco Kid
Jan 14, 2008

Where does the wind come from that blows upon your face, that fans the pages of your book?


Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

Inio Asano does some really great stuff with facial expressions and body language that really sell whatever emotions he's trying to convey. A certain ex-mod typed up a blog post about how he managed to make one of the most satisfying kisses in comic books. There's a lot of really neat stuff going on in those panels that really requires a sharp eye for how humans tend to interact. It's a delicate thing that can be easy to overdo or just as easily lapse into cliche.

Thanks for the link! I've never considered the subject in much depth before, but it's got me thinking (and Googling).

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EndOfTheWorld
Jul 22, 2004

I'm an excellent critic! I automatically know when someone's done a bad job. Before you ask, yes it's a mixed blessing.

Cybernetic Crumb

Inio Asano's totally tits, it's true, but I want to look at some more Humberto Ramos.



Ramos has some problems, but I always thought he was the ideal guy for drawing a book like Impulse. Usually just the right amount of cartoony with the big feet and big head. Facial features not bound by the mortal constraints of what can fit on a face.

Then again, he does go overboard. This is from Crimson, Ish #1. It's very late nineties and there's vampires and angels and demons and a sexy red riding hood.

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