Post Good/Bad Comic Book Art - Stop Posting Liefeld

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > Post Good/Bad Comic Book Art - Stop Posting Liefeld

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Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Jazzy John Romita may be the best Spider-Man artist but Ditko could really knock it out of the park.

All from Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2013 21:06

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 16:44

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Since we're doing recoloring I really dislike both the Year One and Killing Joke recolouring.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2013 19:45

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Yeah Mazzucchelli specifically spoke out before it was released trying to get people not to buy it due to how bad the recoloring, paper quality and design were.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2013 19:51

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Yeti Yeti Yeti posted:

I could be wrong, but I think you sample of Year One was actually from an earlier recolouring of the book, which was necessary due to it no longer being printed on newsprint and was approved by Mazzucchelli. The recent reprint of the book that he disapproved of had other issues like low quality images, a redesigned cover, and being printed on glossy paper. In fact, I don't think this version was actually recoloured, because I found this quote from Mazzucchelli clarifying the issue:

So those were two different problems.

My bad.

I thought I might be getting a few things mixed up. I still really prefer the original from the effect given off by the paper quality.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2013 21:54

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

bobkatt013 posted:

In memory of Carmine Infantino

Flash 123

Here is some more images.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2013 22:46

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Here's some more Carmine Infantino

El Gallinero Gros posted:

I'm suprised you didn't include the Flash cover where Captain Cold is directly talking to the reader about how he'd like tot ell you what he did to the Flash, but they wouldn't let him and there's a big CENSORED sign. It's pretty creative.

I actually hadn't seen the cover but you're right it's pretty drat great.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2013 12:52

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Yeah but the main thing is that even Moibius' worst is better than a lot of artists best.

Anyway here's some Bill Sienkiewicz doing some New Mutants.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2013 12:02

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Hakkesshu posted:

The design itself was fine, but Quitely made him look like a greasy pedophile porn star. It's like that one hideous Emma Frost panel, except he looks like that throughout the entire run. God, how people can stand that guy's art I'll never know.

Edit: Case in point

That is positively revolting.

If Wolverine doesn't look like the last dude you want to gently caress with in a bar then the artist is doing their job wrong.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2013 07:15

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

swamp waste posted:

These own so much. This style for me is inseparable from the only comics I read as a kid, those early 90s(?) X-Men subfranchises that were grim and probably too self-serious but loving SURREAL in a way that completely sold it. The color choices & abstraction of shapes &compression of space call back to that old Jack Kirby style but with a sorta Ray Pettibon gritty groundedness. Perfect for gonzo superhero stuff that still makes a stab at real-world relevance.

Yeah Sienkiewicz is one of those guys that's just on another level.

If you haven't checked out Elektra: Assassin you should really give it read, he's currently doing Daredevil: End of Days which has some cool stuff in it like this page from issue #7.

# ¿ Apr 18, 2013 12:25

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Dark Knight Strikes Again has a lot of things for people to hate but the coloring really shouldn't be part of it.

People like to hate on Millers art but the book is filled with great scenes.

# ¿ May 14, 2013 21:33

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Madkal posted:

One is a homage, the other is tracing hoping no-one will notice. It's kind of like the Kaare Andrew's covers for the Incredible Hulk.

This isn't some artist ripping off Sandeck and claiming it as his own but rather taking the inspiration from the art and adding his own twist to it, still staying faithful to the original. So yes, homage not blatant plagiarism.

David Aja did not use the specific background from a video game with the hopes that nobody would notice it. It's an homage.

# ¿ May 19, 2013 21:27

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Zzulu posted:

Anyone got a good picture of the new look for Ms.Marvel in Marvel Now?

It's tough to get a good image with her helmet up.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2013 13:27

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Mr Wind Up Bird posted:

The thing that really frustrates me with Howard Chaykin is how it still feels like the comic industry really wants us to get excited that he's drawing something. I was -3 when American Flagg came out and everything I've seen of his basically since then has been just total garbage. He's actually bad enough that I'll avoid books just to not have to look at his freaky lovely art.

Hang it up, old man. I don't know who told you it was ok to ink with a sharpie but you need to get out of the game. Maybe write some new American Flagg for someone else to draw and dump it on IDW.

Satellite Sam is good though and nothing like his Marvel work.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2013 12:24

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Dan Didio posted:

If you don't want to get called a lovely artist, don't fill your portfolio overwhelmingly with poo poo, I guess.

I dunno.

I wouldn't say Chaykin's portfolio has a majority of bad art. I think peoples opinions of him are coloured by the fact that a lot of Marvel guys like Bendis and Fraction got him working on current Marvel projects where the guys style just doesn't fit.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2013 13:14

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Mister Roboto posted:

"Idiot boy" sounds kind of juvenile for an immortal personification.

She's not the personification of Death, she's just a figment of Thanos' imagination.

Spoilers for the end of Thanos Rising.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2013 20:22

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Bringing it to another thread but there's actually a Defenders comic at the moment.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2013 20:24

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

cmykjester posted:

Not exactly a comic book, but I think this goes in the thread.

Ah I see master of anatomy J Scott Campbell is involved.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2013 12:05

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Here's all the Avengers #1 covers. It's basically been all down hill.

The Avengers #1 (1963) cover by Jack Kirby

The Avengers vol. 2, #1 (1996) cover by Rob Liefeld

The Avengers vol. 3, #1 (1998) cover by George P�rez

The Avengers vol. 4, #1 (2010) cover by John Romita Jr.

The Avengers vol. 5, #1 (2012) cover by Dustin Weaver

Some really good film Spider-Man

and a Galactus by Rafael Kayanan that competes with the James Stokoe version.

Waterhaul fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Dec 7, 2013

# ¿ Dec 7, 2013 17:11

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

IUG posted:

What's wrong with that 2012 Avengers cover? I also have no problem with that movie Spider-Man illustration.

2012 Avengers cover is really boring and I don't really know what Carol is supposed to be doing on the cover. Also the Spider-Man piece was supposed to be an example of good art anyway :v:

# ¿ Dec 7, 2013 17:28

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Hollismason posted:

You can say that about the other covers but you can't be serious that George Perez cover is terrible. Like what, other than maybe Thor's hammer, that is a kick rear end cover. I'd buy that as a poster.

Everybody is just thrown together in a ridiculous way just shouting and facing different directions. I dunno what Herc (?) is doing? Is Tigra hanging off Beast and what is Black Widow hanging from? I like Thor trying to land on/right in front of Wanda trying to blast someone.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2013 17:46

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

I really can't stand Finch but at least Mystique seems to be having fun riding around on top of Sabretooth.

# ¿ Dec 7, 2013 18:34

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Political Power is coming in late to try and steal cover of the year :v:

# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 19:22

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Alex Ross has done a variant for the relaunch of Daredevil. It's a bit of a given with Alex Ross but Matt Murdoch sure loves being in his Daredevil costume.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2013 19:49

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

From the way the thread went at the time. Yes.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2014 19:29

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

If fantastic means really generic DC house style with weird perspectives then yes.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2014 23:28

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Ignoring generic dumb poo poo I've been looking back through Phil Noto's "heroes through time" series and it's still really good.

The Franklin meeting Hulk scene is pretty much perfect.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2014 18:08

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

fatherboxx posted:

These photos are charming, some are clever, but Noto really has the problem with variety and dynamics and his sequantial work is pretty bad because of it.

Mike Deodato sure loves the bullet casings from the infamous Minigun Daredevil page, so he brought them back for Original Sin:

A published page in a top 10 best-selling comic, starring naked model of a helicopter:

Deodato is no Finch, but I am still baffled at his status as one of the prime artists at Marvel.

I think Noto is improving a lot when it comes to action with Black Widow, everything is starting to feel more dynamic. I'll agree with the mess that is Deodato. Ignoring Land i'd say he's the worst "major" Marvel artist.

# ¿ Jan 20, 2014 11:26

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Bloody Holly posted:

I was not familiar with Manapul before, but these pages alone have sold me.
Is he usually this solid?

He's very much aping J H Williams style there but Manapul is always pretty solid.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2014 15:35

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Pretty Deadly is a really gorgeous book and Emma Rios is crazy talented. Also helps that Jordie Bellaire really knows how to bring her work out too. So a slighty NSFW scene from Pretty Deadly #4

And a piece from issue #3

# ¿ Jan 25, 2014 17:59

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Rhyno posted:

There was the kerfluffle over the traced painting used in House of M and the artist actually got in a bit of trouble for it. You'd think Disney would crack down on this poo poo.

Wasn't the whole thing with that less an issue that it was a traced photograph and more it was traced from a picture of the King of Spain and his office objected to the use.

Waterhaul fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Feb 4, 2014

# ¿ Feb 4, 2014 09:37

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Everybody knows that Paolo Rivera does the best referencing.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2014 22:16

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Choco1980 posted:

See, this sort of example is what always bugs me during the conversations about people, especially Land, copying pictures. It seems like every single time it comes up, the people that want to show examples start getting themselves so psyched up to be right that they start getting further and further from the truth. Yes, in that first example those are obviously Sean Connery and Adrian Paul, but the pictures are clearly nothing like what was used for the "models", and Connery's pic might have not even come from The Rock for the tracing. And then the second picture, yeah it's a Randy Orton style pose, so what? You're not telling me anything unless you can find that picture, like the thread had done earlier with the Miracleman cover. And the examples get less and less clear/accurate. I once saw a site trying to catalogue Horn's tracings that eventually started getting pictures that looked nothing alike outside of the theme, or what was being depicted, like them saying he must have stolen the idea of a vampire holding an unconscious woman in a graveyard from a different comic image of the same idea from like a decade prior, instead of like, from movies made 80 years prior, as the two pictures were in completely different poses/angles of the same iconic yet generic image. I'm not saying that tracers aren't there, nor that Greg Horn isn't the most prolific, but when you start trying too hard you start diminishing your own argument, and it seems like most people that set out to make that argument want to work that hard.

A similar thing often happens with people trying to show my how bad Rob Liefield's art is or something, and then they have to start pinpointing why this person's neck/back bending weird is bad and why when a different artist does it it's just comics. (Though Liefield totally can't draw feet. Ever.)

There have been tons of exact Land examples throughout the years.

Here's a gif from 4thletter back when knocking Land was popular.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2014 10:07

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Choco1980 posted:

I wasn't saying he didn't or that there weren't. I'm saying that it seems like arguments on the subject start out with these obvious shots, then they start turning into ones where okay I guess if you squint you can see the trace, and then ultimately turn into cases where there's really no trace but maybe an obvious source material, and cases where the person citing things is just trying to jump on the bandwagon. And I was trying to say that by people trying too hard to be the tattler, they end up reducing the tattlee's crimes.

Ah I get you.

You're always going to have a sense of hyperbole when it comes to people talking about art though.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2014 15:29

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Flesh Forge posted:

Haven't we had long arguments in this very thread where stylization was crapped on?

If you'll just hold on I have thousands of images with red lines through them to show you that these comic characters would have different proportions in real life.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2014 19:45

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

So is that her face or the Jokers face or just a random dead persons face.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2014 19:30

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

This thread is pretty old.

But rather than start a new one I think it's time that we split this thread into two new ones.

One for the most ~terrible~/awful comic art, maybe even worse than the most feared Liefeld~ and another for the best/greatest art around.

For as long as this thread is I don't think we've managed to scrape the beginnings of truely terrible or great art and separating may just be thing to remove having to balance the thread.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2014 16:05

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Yeah I get what you mean.

There's just so much crap that goes up weekly that I think we could do with delving into more awfulness.

For example this is just from scanning this week's new on Comixology.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2014 17:01

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Holy poo poo Stokoe doing more Marvel stuff. Never thought I'd see that again.

And of course in one image he outdoes everything ever done with the "proper" Age of Ultron event.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2014 21:04

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

SMP posted:

I'm relatively new to comics so I gotta ask: what's up with every comic from like 4+ years ago (and DC comics today) coloring all their stuff using gradients? It looks awful and everything is so drat shiny. Everything looks pillow shaded.

It's a combination of DC having a terrible house style which they try to keep books in line with and DC not caring about colorists. Yanick Paquette recently called DC out on it on a creator feedback survey they sent out.

quote:

My final statement for the DC Survey. Copy/Pasted here:
For me, above anything else, the quality of my work is imperative. The level of sacrifice required to do this job can only be justified by being proud of its final result. Yet, all my effort as the artist would be insignificant without the care and talent of my most pivotal collaborator; The colorist.

By resisting to align its royalties and recognition policy on Marvel, It has become excessively difficult to secure the best Colorists for DC projects. In this digital day and age, where often the entire comic visual is a two person operation, it seem aberrant that one of the two won't receive the Royalties or exposure respect they fully deserve.

It's about time we revisit that royalty pie split. And if we find the courage to slaps some annoying last minute advertisement banner on the cover, certainly adding the colorist name there should'nt be that challenging.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2014 11:06

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 16:44

Waterhaul: Nov 5, 2005; it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.

Yeah I can understand some Bachalo complaints depending on the inking but both of those images are clearly a bunch of dudes fighting and jumping on top of each other and are supposed to be a mess of people.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2014 08:25

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > Post Good/Bad Comic Book Art - Stop Posting Liefeld

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