Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



gently caress meant “lived through 2008” not 2016. Brain fart.

poo poo I sold an AK in 2008 and bought an engagement ring with it.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



One thing to keep in mind with the 33’s is that they don’t have a hundredth of the icon status as the MP5. Between Hollywood, spec ops, swat teams, and Counter Strike pretty much every flavor of anyone who might want to own a gun has that on their “that would be neat” list.

The 33 doesn’t have that so the only real people shopping them are HK enthusiasts and 556 rifle nerds.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



I'll be interested in seeing what the actual guns have printed on them when they get out into the wild. Discussion around the internet seems to be that MKE in Turkey has a batch of guns that were intended for Zenith to import, but the relationship between those two entities went tits up and Zenith is instead planning to start making roller guns stateside in 2021. Supposedly this is why the guns Century were using in their promotional material had electrical tape over the manufacturer markings. If this is true, I'm not sure why they are aiming for a ~$3000 MSRP since they were selling through Zenith (a much more respected company) for $1000 less.

The only thing I can fathom is that MKE is trying to recoup money from their gently caress up with Zenith or Century is planning for an AWB introduction like Cyrano said. Century might also be hedging their bets for a possible scenario where the ATF starts blocking imports of "it's totally a handgun guys, I swear" type guns (Krinkov AKs, MP5 pistols, SIG 55x pistols, etc.). There was a large panic about that at the beginning of November, and I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility. Frankly, I'm surprised the ATF hasn't pushed back already. I love that "pistol" imports make cool guns available, but it's a bit ballsy to try to bring in a 20.3" barreled SIG 550 upper as a "pistol".

All that said, I've been looking into MP5s a lot lately after discussing them at at length with a friend who is also in the market for one. From what I can see, and correct me if I'm wrong, the PTR series seems to be the only realistic option for the foreseeable future. I firmly do not believe we will ever see a sub $1000 MP5 clone as PSA has taken too long with their version for it to ever be anything other than vaporware. If their AKs are any indication, I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig for those anyway. With POF imports finished, the only other sub-$2000 option seems to be PTR. I won't complain about the $2500-$2800 street price for SP-5s (and the 9 month wait for Dakota Tactical D-54Ns on top of it), but I just don't want one enough to break into that price bracket. PTRs can still be had for <$1700, and while it may be possible that Zenith USA brings a similar option to market, I doubt that it'd be out before 2022 at the earliest given how badly dicked manufacturing and supply chains are right now (and will continue to be).

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Dr. Gojo Shioji posted:


All that said, I've been looking into MP5s a lot lately after discussing them at at length with a friend who is also in the market for one. From what I can see, and correct me if I'm wrong, the PTR series seems to be the only realistic option for the foreseeable future. I firmly do not believe we will ever see a sub $1000 MP5 clone as PSA has taken too long with their version for it to ever be anything other than vaporware. If their AKs are any indication, I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig for those anyway. With POF imports finished, the only other sub-$2000 option seems to be PTR. I won't complain about the $2500-$2800 street price for SP-5s (and the 9 month wait for Dakota Tactical D-54Ns on top of it), but I just don't want one enough to break into that price bracket. PTRs can still be had for <$1700, and while it may be possible that Zenith USA brings a similar option to market, I doubt that it'd be out before 2022 at the earliest given how badly dicked manufacturing and supply chains are right now (and will continue to be).

Honestly at this point I'd probably just go with the SP5 now. My thinking is that as long as you have that all-important HK stamp on it you can probably get close-ish to what you paid for from some deranged HK fanboy or the real morons who just collect poo poo from that one dumb town. Meanwhile I could see the market for a used PTR or PSA being much more in line with typical used gun prices, even if it's the desirable MP5 form factor.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Cyrano4747 posted:

My thinking is that as long as you have that all-important HK stamp on it you can probably get close-ish to what you paid for from some deranged HK fanboy or the real morons who just collect poo poo from that one dumb town.

This is a fair point, but also implies that I sell guns.

Styles Bitchley
Nov 13, 2004

FOR THE WIN FOR THE WIN FOR THE WIN

I thought about a SP5 and then weighed the price over how much I would enjoy it versus just renting an actual full auto MP5 one anytime I got an itch. MP5 is a must shoot full auto experience, it's magical. Semi auto only is just not as enjoyable or worth near $3k imo.

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Styles Bitchley posted:

I thought about a SP5 and then weighed the price over how much I would enjoy it versus just renting an actual full auto MP5 one anytime I got an itch. MP5 is a must shoot full auto experience, it's magical. Semi auto only is just not as enjoyable or worth near $3k imo.

I will forever hold the opinion that a full auto mp5 is the best gun in the world. There is no better shooting experience. I’ve had a lot of great ones, but nothing has ever been as good as an mp5.

Monolith.
Jan 28, 2011

To save the world from the expanding Zone.


Glad I picked up my POF5 for $1300 awhile ago looking at those insane prices.

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007


Hair Elf

Monolith. posted:

Glad I picked up my POF5 for $1300 awhile ago looking at those insane prices.

Same

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

Does anyone happen to have a VP9 Optics Plate #2 they'd be willing to sell me? They appear to be completely out of stock absolutely everywhere. I have looked in every corner of the internet and there is not a single one to be found.

Kadath
Aug 17, 2004

Put Your 'Lectric Eye On Me, Babe

Grimey Drawer

Monolith. posted:

Glad I picked up my POF5 for $1300 awhile ago looking at those insane prices.

Emptyquoting

Mechworrier
Jul 21, 2003

Victory needs no explanation; defeat allows none.

Monolith. posted:

Glad I picked up my POF5 for $1300 awhile ago looking at those insane prices.

when i finally broke down and got a ptr 9ct for closer to $1700 (granted, brace included) I was forever jealous of people who copped those early wave of POF5s since I couldn't have cared less about the mlok forend and welded on rail. Now I get to be the smug one with yall

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



Man I'm really glad I dumped the MP5 platform and went to the APC9. Almost $3000 for a Century gun

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004



Mechworrier posted:

when i finally broke down and got a ptr 9ct for closer to $1700 (granted, brace included) I was forever jealous of people who copped those early wave of POF5s since I couldn't have cared less about the mlok forend and welded on rail. Now I get to be the smug one with yall

To be fair, PTRs are still available around that price (albeit without a brace).

Warbadger
Jun 17, 2006


Mechworrier posted:

when i finally broke down and got a ptr 9ct for closer to $1700 (granted, brace included) I was forever jealous of people who copped those early wave of POF5s since I couldn't have cared less about the mlok forend and welded on rail. Now I get to be the smug one with yall

I am glad I grabbed one of the first run of Dakota Tactical MP5F builds for similar reasons. They started around $1800 and within a year you had $3k prices and a 6 month backlog.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


Do y'all think a USP 45 full size or a USPc 9 would make a better LEM host?

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Deleting the control lever would make more sense on the smaller frame, especially if you plan to carry.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Cyrano4747 posted:

The 33 doesn’t have that so the only real people shopping them are HK enthusiasts and 556 rifle nerds.

This is me with the HK53. I really want one because it was the Michigan State Police’s standard patrol rifle for a long time and I have a weird fondness for it.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



infrared35 posted:

This is me with the HK53. I really want one because it was the Michigan State Police’s standard patrol rifle for a long time and I have a weird fondness for it.

Oh.

My.

God.

Man, I love you, but goddamn. At least you come by your weird gun fixations honestly.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Cyrano4747 posted:

Oh.

My.

God.

Man, I love you, but goddamn. At least you come by your weird gun fixations honestly.



Most guys preferred the 870 to the 53 because everyone knows all you have to do is rack that shotty and everyone within hearing distance pees their pants and drops prone to surrender.

I knew the score.

serakyu
Jan 11, 2007

and lo, motherfuckers


From my understanding, the HK LEM trigger kit makes every shot a consistent trigger pull as opposed to a DA/SA, correct? My only previous experience with HK pistols is with the P2000.

My USP full size will finally be in my hands mid-January (CA 30 day cooldown, just picked up an FN 509) and I'm debating on picking one up to have ready. How difficult is it to install?

LordOfThePants
Sep 25, 2002



serakyu posted:

From my understanding, the HK LEM trigger kit makes every shot a consistent trigger pull as opposed to a DA/SA, correct? My only previous experience with HK pistols is with the P2000.

My USP full size will finally be in my hands mid-January (CA 30 day cooldown, just picked up an FN 509) and I'm debating on picking one up to have ready. How difficult is it to install?

Yeah, it’s sort of that way. I suck at describing it, but I’ll give it a shot.

It has a long initial pull that’s relatively light. The “second stage” is somewhat heavier before it fires. If you keep the trigger pressed after firing and shoot off the reset, it’s the same “second stage” trigger pull. Let the trigger all the way out and you get the same “long first stage, short second” trigger pull.

If you pull the trigger and it doesn’t fire, you can ‘second strike’ the round by pulling the trigger again. This is a very long, stiff trigger feel. I’ve never actually had that happen, I’m so used to non LEM triggers that I think if that did happen for me in a match, I’d probably just rack the slide to clear the round and keep going.

I don’t think it’s super difficult to install, I looked into it briefly before I bought my HK45T with LEM (in case I didn’t like it). Go for it, if you don’t like it you can always revert the conversion.

Shumagorath
Jun 5, 2001


Second strike on a LEM is >10lbs of flat-out misery, and it also makes dry fire practise a pain because you have to constantly break your grip to rack the slide rather than have the option to cock a hammer, but other than that I like it. I actually have more success shooting my 45C fast and pulling cleanly through the wall than I do trying to deliberately "stage" it because it gives me less time to gently caress up and push the shot low left. That said, I'm going with a Match trigger kit on my USP45 if I make any changes at all to the stock V1.

My LEM 45C would be great for competition here if not for the local >4" rule mandatory threaded barrel messing with holster options.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


serakyu posted:

From my understanding, the HK LEM trigger kit makes every shot a consistent trigger pull as opposed to a DA/SA, correct? My only previous experience with HK pistols is with the P2000.

My USP full size will finally be in my hands mid-January (CA 30 day cooldown, just picked up an FN 509) and I'm debating on picking one up to have ready. How difficult is it to install?
Butch once described LEM as a "single action trigger posing as double action", which is probably the best description of it I've heard. The LEM hammer is two parts: a single action inner hammer, and the visible external hammer. Under normal operation, the internal hammer is always cocked. As you pull the trigger, the external hammer cams back until it engages with the inner hammer, and both parts are released forward together to strike the firing pin.

The result of this is that most of the weight in the front part of the trigger pull comes from the trigger return spring; it's why the LEM TRS is much beefier than stock. You can see this by putting the stock TRS in a LEM gun, which will make the front half of the pull almost nothing. (I highly recommend leaving the safety in of you do that, because it's basically a SAO trigger at that point.)

I really like what it adds up to: a two-stage trigger where the added weight of the second stage is minimal. It's a very long pull, but very easy to pull through the 2nd stage without disturbing your sights. For follow up shots, you can let the trigger out just to the reset and run it like a DA/SA trigger in SA. You can let the trigger all the way out at any time to get the long pull again, because it doesn't catch on the SA sear. It reminds me of Walther's underrated Anti-Stress trigger.

It has everything I like about a DA/SA trigger: a long, deliberate initial pull, the ability to run it in SA, and a visible, external hammer. But it has the advantage of a striker system that the pull weight in "DA" and SA are very similar, so you don't have to learn two different triggers. I really liked it in my USP40, but I couldn't get over how flippy the USP40 was, so I sold it.

The install is relatively easy and there are really good pictorial guides on HK.net for it. The only pain in the rear end is getting the LEM trigger return spring into the frame. HKParts sells a tool for that, but you can get away with using needle nose pliers if you're patient.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

Ever sign up for email notifications for an OOS product but by the time you receive it it's OOS again?

Received 0715 PST & already gone.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

Sooooo while I'm disappointed that I didn't get that bolt carrier from HKParts, I did snag one from HK Haus… for double the price.

All excited to put things together when I noticed this:

Left is my standard Colt bolt carrier and the firing pin fully in the bolt. On the right is my 416 bolt carrier and the firing pin… as far as it can go into the bolt.

Upon further inspection I noticed the 416ms firing pin has a bulge along the shaft, unlike the Colt's :

Now to get HK Parts on the horn & see if I can get a replacement firing pin.

The good news is that a standard AR bolt, cam pin, firing pin, and firing pin retaining pin seems to fit in this HK bolt carrier. Worst case scenario I grab those parts from my local gun store & call this project done.

ChuckDeNomolos
Jan 10, 2013

"For god's sake, man! Can you hear that? I know it seems like crying, and you always have crying in your head, but can you hear that?"


Does anyone have any experience with HKparts in regards to returns/exchanges? I received one of their VP9 low profile magwells, and the holes were not drilled correctly and looking at their lengthy return policy with restocking fees, I'm getting a lot of signals that I should just deal with my CC instead of them.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



ChuckDeNomolos posted:

Does anyone have any experience with HKparts in regards to returns/exchanges? I received one of their VP9 low profile magwells, and the holes were not drilled correctly and looking at their lengthy return policy with restocking fees, I'm getting a lot of signals that I should just deal with my CC instead of them.

Your CC is going to ask if you've contacted the vendor.

Start out by talking to HK Parts and if they tell you to pound sand then talk to your CC.

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007


Hair Elf

I returned/exchanged a flash hider to them years ago that looked like it had come from the bottom of the sea. I don't recall it being a bad experience. Their Customer Service has certainly improved since Adam Webber was put in prison.

ChuckDeNomolos
Jan 10, 2013

"For god's sake, man! Can you hear that? I know it seems like crying, and you always have crying in your head, but can you hear that?"


Cool, I had a message sent to them last night so I don't expect a response until later this week. It was a dumb purchase anyways, since this thing looks more like gun jewelry than a functioning magwell after looking it over once it was in hand.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

I'm in the process of sorting out an issue regarding my HK416's bolt & firing pin. Sent an email 2 days ago, may call them on Monday.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



Just bought a PTR91 off a local friend. First roller delayed gun. The trigger on them is pretty mediocre, is there a good competent gunsmith to send the trigger pack off to to get a trigger job? Or a source of match triggers that's not out of stock?

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

L0cke17 posted:

Just bought a PTR91 off a local friend. First roller delayed gun. The trigger on them is pretty mediocre, is there a good competent gunsmith to send the trigger pack off to to get a trigger job? Or a source of match triggers that's not out of stock?

http://www.williamstriggers.com/ did mine and it's really nice now. Bill Springfield also does them and is popular although there are a decent amount of "Bill Springfield hosed up" stories around so YMMV. I've never heard of an issue with Williams.

If you want a flat trigger or different hammer or something for whatever reason then obviously you wanna put that stuff in before you send it to him so he can polish all of it etc.

my kinda ape fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Dec 19, 2020

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



my kinda ape posted:

http://www.williamstriggers.com/ did mine and it's really nice now. Bill Springfield also does them and is popular although there are a decent amount of "Bill Springfield hosed up" stories around so YMMV. I've never heard of an issue with Williams.

If you want a flat trigger or different hammer or something for whatever reason then obviously you wanna put that stuff in before you send it to him so he can polish all of it etc.

Did you get the trigger reshaping? Or just the standard trigger job?

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

L0cke17 posted:

Did you get the trigger reshaping? Or just the standard trigger job?

I just got the standard. I think I got mine done shortly before he started offering the contoured trigger style again. I actually ended up putting one of those flat triggers from HK Parts in after he did mine and it didn't seem to make the pull any worse.

skrapp mettle
Mar 17, 2007






SP5Ks in stock, $2995

https://www.armsunlimited.com/Heckler-Koch-SP5K-9mm-Pistol-p/hk-m750900-a5.htm

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

Update on HKParts customer service: sent another email from their site, got a response on Monday. Sending firing pin back, as well as the 416 buffer retaining pins I ordered. Pro-tip: those retaining pins are designed for 416 lowers & doesn't play well with regular AR lowers.

LordOfThePants
Sep 25, 2002




They've had those EU models in stock frequently - I think that model is similar to the SP5K they brought into the US a few years ago. No paddle mag release and no three-lug barrel.

Not sure what the warranty implications are for those. The lack of a three lug barrel means it's a no-go for me.

ChuckDeNomolos
Jan 10, 2013

"For god's sake, man! Can you hear that? I know it seems like crying, and you always have crying in your head, but can you hear that?"


got a response back from HKParts, and they claim the magwells may need to have their pins driven in at an angle, which I'm not sure how anyone can pull off without taking material off the pin hole or deforming the roll pin. I would strongly advise against ordering the low profile magwell they offer, but they are accepting the return so I just need to send it back.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


Android Apocalypse posted:

Pro-tip: those retaining pins are designed for 416 lowers & doesn't play well with regular AR lowers.
Nope. If you're looking for a milspec lower compatible solution, Forward Controls Design makes a buffer retainer with a larger nub for improved durability.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply