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Zorblack
Oct 8, 2008

And with strange aeons, even death may eat a burrito with goons.

Lipstick Apathy

The Bananana posted:

I don't know about HK... I'd kinda like a USP9, but I can't justify the price on a gun from a company I kinda sorta resent as I consider them the "Apple" of the Gun world.

While I'm not going to argue about HK's apparent stance on civilian owners (they don't like them I hear), I will say that comparing HK to Apple isn't totally fair. Apple makes a product that is average/inferior to a lot of other companies offerings at a huge markup, and their sole reason for existing at this point is because their products are a status symbol. HK on the other hand sells a very high quality product for a high price. They have a bitchin recoil reduction system(some kind of Browning design that I don't want to examine too closely at 2:30 am while my stomach hurts). Also, their form factor has always just felt perfect in my hands. The only other guns that really had a good feel were the Browning Hi Power and the SW M&P, but that's personal preference. Also of note: polygonal rifling.

Also, if you fire in the thumbs forward hand position, you can rest your left thumb on the mag release and drop a mag while simultaneously reaching for another on your belt. This is nice for competition shooting.

Finally: you could just buy one used. It is extremely unlikely that anything the previous owner did affected the accuracy or reliability of the gun. They've been known to take upwards of 35k rounds without issue. Lots of gun shops can find you a police officer owned pistol too, so there's that. Mine was 535 in 9mm and came with nothing but a little holster wear markings. Internally the barrel sparkled like a mirror and the rifling was pristine.

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infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Zorblack posted:

Apple makes a product that is average/inferior to a lot of other companies offerings at a huge markup, and their sole reason for existing at this point is because their products are a status symbol.

Here we go

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



I filled an iPod and a Zune with water and

Alex P Corn
Jun 4, 2005

be careful what you dream for

SOMEBODY SERIOUSLY SPENT TEN BUCKS ON THIS

Mad Dragon posted:

I filled an iPod and a Zune with water and

I went swimming in a lake with my USP Tactical once. It had 12 rounds of WWB in it, too. I dried it out when I got home and a few weeks later at the range those 12 rounds fired flawlessly.

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

Zorblack posted:

While I'm not going to argue about HK's apparent stance on civilian owners (they don't like them I hear), I will say that comparing HK to Apple isn't totally fair. Apple makes a product that is average/inferior to a lot of other companies offerings at a huge markup, and their sole reason for existing at this point is because their products are a status symbol. HK on the other hand sells a very high quality product for a high price. They have a bitchin recoil reduction system(some kind of Browning design that I don't want to examine too closely at 2:30 am while my stomach hurts). Also, their form factor has always just felt perfect in my hands. The only other guns that really had a good feel were the Browning Hi Power and the SW M&P, but that's personal preference. Also of note: polygonal rifling.

Also, if you fire in the thumbs forward hand position, you can rest your left thumb on the mag release and drop a mag while simultaneously reaching for another on your belt. This is nice for competition shooting.

Finally: you could just buy one used. It is extremely unlikely that anything the previous owner did affected the accuracy or reliability of the gun. They've been known to take upwards of 35k rounds without issue. Lots of gun shops can find you a police officer owned pistol too, so there's that. Mine was 535 in 9mm and came with nothing but a little holster wear markings. Internally the barrel sparkled like a mirror and the rifling was pristine.

The Bananana
May 21, 2008

This is a metaphor, a Christian allegory. The fact that I have to explain to you that Jesus is the Warthog, and the Banana is drepanocytosis is just embarrassing for you.





Easy guys, we're on the verge of a pretty nasty


That said,

Wong Dongson
Mar 26, 2010

More like Wrong Dongson am I right?

Get it?

Because I'm really fucking dumb and annoying and usually have no idea what the fuck I'm talk about.


Man, I'd buy a loving Apple II if they put it in that thing, and I wouldn't even feel bad about it.

SadWhaleFamily
May 1, 2007



The Bananana posted:

Easy guys, we're on the verge of a pretty nasty


That said,
IMAGE MACRO

yeah you should be sorry for posting that

star trek extra credit
Jun 3, 2007


So- assuming the caliber is the same, Walther P99 or USP for concealed carry (shoulder holster, most likely)? They'd both be the compact versions. I know the price differences, just curious about goon preferences. I DO have a P22 and really like the ergonomics, based on a P99 and all.

Also, some Walther-loving goon needs to start a Walther (support the company that killed hitler) megathread

Edit: my knowledge of the USP comes solely from counterstrike

star trek extra credit fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Apr 18, 2011

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


While I'm not going to argue about Apple's apparent stance on commercial users (they don't like them I hear), I will say that comparing Apple to HK isn't totally fair. HK makes a product that is average/inferior to a lot of other companies offerings at a huge markup, and their sole reason for existing at this point is because their products are a status symbol. Apple on the other hand sells a very high quality product for a high price. They have a operating system (some kind of Unix design that I don't want to examine too closely at 2:30 am while my stomach hurts). Also, their form factor has always just felt perfect in my hands. The only other computers that really had a good feel were the Linux and Windows 2000 when it first came out, but that's personal preference. Also of note: Quiksilver.

Also, if you type in the thumbs forward hand position, you can rest your left thumb on the space bar tab through windows while simultaneously reaching for another cheeto from your lap. This is nice for competition gaming.

Finally: you could just buy one used. It is extremely unlikely that anything the previous owner did affected the integrity or reliability of the computer hardware. They've been known to take upwards of 3-5 years of ownership without issue. Lots of computer stores can find you an Apple certified refurbished laptop too, so there's that. Mine was 635 with a 14" screen and came with nothing but a little discoloration on the outside. Internally the screen sparkled like a mirror and the hard drive was pristine.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

VanFullOfMidgets posted:

So- assuming the caliber is the same, Walther P99 or USP for concealed carry (shoulder holster, most likely)? They'd both be the compact versions. I know the price differences, just curious about goon preferences. I DO have a P22 and really like the ergonomics, based on a P99 and all.

Also, some Walther-loving goon needs to start a Walther (support the company that killed hitler) megathread

USP Compact, LEM trigger.




Kommienzuspadt posted:

While I'm not going to argue about Apple's apparent stance on commercial users (they don't like them I hear), I will say that comparing Apple to HK isn't totally fair. HK makes a product that is average/inferior to a lot of other companies offerings at a huge markup, and their sole reason for existing at this point is because their products are a status symbol. Apple on the other hand sells a very high quality product for a high price. They have a operating system (some kind of Unix design that I don't want to examine too closely at 2:30 am while my stomach hurts). Also, their form factor has always just felt perfect in my hands. The only other computers that really had a good feel were the Linux and Windows 2000 when it first came out, but that's personal preference. Also of note: Quiksilver.

Also, if you type in the thumbs forward hand position, you can rest your left thumb on the space bar tab through windows while simultaneously reaching for another cheeto from your lap. This is nice for competition gaming.

Finally: you could just buy one used. It is extremely unlikely that anything the previous owner did affected the integrity or reliability of the computer hardware. They've been known to take upwards of 3-5 years of ownership without issue. Lots of computer stores can find you an Apple certified refurbished laptop too, so there's that. Mine was 635 with a 14" screen and came with nothing but a little discoloration on the outside. Internally the screen sparkled like a mirror and the hard drive was pristine.

SadWhaleFamily
May 1, 2007



Kommienzuspadt posted:

While I'm not going to argue about Apple's apparent stance on commercial users (they don't like them I hear), I will say that comparing Apple to HK isn't totally fair. HK makes a product that is average/inferior to a lot of other companies offerings at a huge markup, and their sole reason for existing at this point is because their products are a status symbol. Apple on the other hand sells a very high quality product for a high price. They have a operating system (some kind of Unix design that I don't want to examine too closely at 2:30 am while my stomach hurts). Also, their form factor has always just felt perfect in my hands. The only other computers that really had a good feel were the Linux and Windows 2000 when it first came out, but that's personal preference. Also of note: Quiksilver.

Also, if you type in the thumbs forward hand position, you can rest your left thumb on the space bar tab through windows while simultaneously reaching for another cheeto from your lap. This is nice for competition gaming.

Finally: you could just buy one used. It is extremely unlikely that anything the previous owner did affected the integrity or reliability of the computer hardware. They've been known to take upwards of 3-5 years of ownership without issue. Lots of computer stores can find you an Apple certified refurbished laptop too, so there's that. Mine was 635 with a 14" screen and came with nothing but a little discoloration on the outside. Internally the screen sparkled like a mirror and the hard drive was pristine.



Though a screen sparkling like a mirror would be goddamned annoying in any place that had overhead lights.

SyHopeful
Jun 24, 2007
May an IDF soldier mistakenly gun down my own parents and face no repercussions i'd totally be cool with it cuz accidents are unavoidable in a low-intensity conflict, man

Kommienzuspadt posted:

While I'm not going to argue about Apple's apparent stance on commercial users (they don't like them I hear), I will say that comparing Apple to HK isn't totally fair. HK makes a product that is average/inferior to a lot of other companies offerings at a huge markup, and their sole reason for existing at this point is because their products are a status symbol. Apple on the other hand sells a very high quality product for a high price. They have a operating system (some kind of Unix design that I don't want to examine too closely at 2:30 am while my stomach hurts). Also, their form factor has always just felt perfect in my hands. The only other computers that really had a good feel were the Linux and Windows 2000 when it first came out, but that's personal preference. Also of note: Quiksilver.

Also, if you type in the thumbs forward hand position, you can rest your left thumb on the space bar tab through windows while simultaneously reaching for another cheeto from your lap. This is nice for competition gaming.

Finally: you could just buy one used. It is extremely unlikely that anything the previous owner did affected the integrity or reliability of the computer hardware. They've been known to take upwards of 3-5 years of ownership without issue. Lots of computer stores can find you an Apple certified refurbished laptop too, so there's that. Mine was 635 with a 14" screen and came with nothing but a little discoloration on the outside. Internally the screen sparkled like a mirror and the hard drive was pristine.

Laser Cow
Feb 22, 2006

Just like real cows!

Only with lasers.


An HK416 was the first real gun I ever handled and I didn't even know what the whole thing was about. Just that some Polish dudes wanted us to develop some accessories for it. I still don't really get what it's about but I saw some videos where they stuck it in water and stuff and that was pretty cool I guess from an engineering point of view.

Ninja Rope
Oct 22, 2005

Wee.


VanFullOfMidgets posted:

So- assuming the caliber is the same, Walther P99 or USP for concealed carry (shoulder holster, most likely)? They'd both be the compact versions. I know the price differences, just curious about goon preferences. I DO have a P22 and really like the ergonomics, based on a P99 and all.

Also, some Walther-loving goon needs to start a Walther (support the company that killed hitler) megathread

Edit: my knowledge of the USP comes solely from counterstrike

Like infrared said before Kommienzuspadt went all , I'd go with a USPc/LEM. The decocker on the P99 QA version supposedly disables the gun until you rack the slide, and the AS doesn't have the same trigger pull each time. I like the P99, I just wouldn't prefer to carry it. Try both and see which one you like better. Also shoulder holsters are silly.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



VanFullOfMidgets posted:

(shoulder holster, most likely)

Get whatever guns feels more comfortable for you, but shoulder holster is almost (like 98.9526% of the time) NEVER the way to go. A good IWB like an MTAC, Raven, or Crossbreed will conceal anything short of a desert eagle.

Also we've had a number of Walther threads before but they die off pretty quickly

Robot Battalion
May 26, 2001



All these backwards bullet mag photos are killing me. Hehe

Ridicule aside, I'd gladly sell a hundred people down the river for an MP5SD.

Squirl
Aug 8, 2004
You're lucky I couldn't think of anything better

Mxlplx posted:

All these backwards bullet mag photos are killing me. Hehe

Ridicule aside, I'd gladly sell a hundred people down the river for an MP5SD.

I'd sell everybody I know down the river for an MP5. I got the chance to blow through a mag on full auto and it was amazing and surprisingly controllable.

big_dilli
May 17, 2005


How many that are bagging on HK actually have shot one?



Yeah I've heard the argument you can get just as good for cheaper.



And maybe you can.



But there's nothing wrong with an HK.



They work just fine.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

Flanker posted:

Well, this is an appropriate thread to post about my SL8. Timely, because I just sold it.


I was never particularly interested in the G36 until last year in Afghanistan, when both the Spanish and the Germans I worked with (any maybe one or two other countries) had them. Somewhere I've got pics from a previous tour of me posing with one; felt really long but really light, kind of like an M16A1 but even lighter and longer.


Just for a basic rundown, what's the basic US answer on "G36s" these days? Is it still something like "buy an SL8 for $1800, pay a guy $1000 to put G36 accessories and US parts in it."? What kind of price do people get to at the end of a conversion?

Are SL8->"G36" conversions kind of cobbled together junk and airsoft parts, or are they 95% of the way to being a decent semi-auto G36?

SyHopeful
Jun 24, 2007
May an IDF soldier mistakenly gun down my own parents and face no repercussions i'd totally be cool with it cuz accidents are unavoidable in a low-intensity conflict, man

big_dilli posted:

How many that are bagging on HK actually have shot one?



Yeah I've heard the argument you can get just as good for cheaper.



And maybe you can.



But there's nothing wrong with an HK.



They work just fine.

me, and "they work just fine" applies to a dozen other, cheaper firearms manufacturers.

SyHopeful
Jun 24, 2007
May an IDF soldier mistakenly gun down my own parents and face no repercussions i'd totally be cool with it cuz accidents are unavoidable in a low-intensity conflict, man

in all seriousness though, can somebody tell me why roller-delayed blowback is apparently superior to all other types of actions?

Ninja Rope
Oct 22, 2005

Wee.


SyHopeful posted:

in all seriousness though, can somebody tell me why roller-delayed blowback is apparently superior to all other types of actions?

It's not?

I'm not an expert, but with a roller-delayed blowback you don't need to hang poo poo like a piston or gas tube off the barrel so the barrel can be free-floating, but on the downside the rollers and bolt require more complicated machining, and the rollers are less tolerant of dirt/damage/wear. Extraction is also rather violent and dirty.

I don't think HK makes any new roller-delayed systems. It's all blowback (UMP) or some kind of piston (416, XM8, G36).

nnnnghhhhgnnngh
Apr 6, 2009


big_dilli posted:

How many that are bagging on HK actually have shot one?
I really like the USP Compact, it seems to fit my hands and balance just right. Especially the .40.


Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


First pistol I ever owned (and first gun I bought myself) was a USPc 40. The grip fits my girly hands pretty well, the LEM trigger is swell and the sights are great, but I was looking for a range gun, and the high bore / compact size / light frame / "snappy" round just make the gun rise more than I like. I'm still holding onto it for potential future carry (my alternative at this point is a far less desirable Makarov), but eventually I'd like to swap it for a 9mm model. For range use I'll look into something all-metal like a CZ or something old and Siggy.

Also a couple shots for the HK/Le Carre crew:









Until I looked at these pics I had forgotten about HK's lovely proprietary rail

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



Yeah I don't think anyone has ever said HK pistols don't shoot well. They shoot really well but so do Glocks, S&Ws, Berettas, Springfields, and others, all for at least $150-$200 less.

I know you can find them for better prices if you poke around used, but my bigger issue with them is even the "compact" versions of these guns are goddamn huge. In terms of size they're basically polymer Sigs.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

And yet the USP Compact has the slimmest grip of any double-stack handgun on the market.

Uncle Caveman
Jun 16, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.


Yeah, the USPc grip is much slimmer than a Sig, and slightly slimmer than a Glock. Shooting ir35's LEM compact was ~*a magical wonder*~

Gray Stormy
Dec 19, 2006



I dont like the LEM trigger.

Maybe its just because I havent shot with it enough, but every time I shoot IR35s it just doesnt click for me.

I do like the M&P9 trigger though...is something wrong with me?

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



Gray Stormy posted:

I do like the M&P9 trigger though...is something wrong with me?

Absolutely.

The Bananana
May 21, 2008

This is a metaphor, a Christian allegory. The fact that I have to explain to you that Jesus is the Warthog, and the Banana is drepanocytosis is just embarrassing for you.





DJExile posted:

Absolutely not.

Fixed that for you.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



An M&P trigger is literally broken in half. Then again it fits that a broken mind like GStormy's would like it.


I kid because I love, I just can't stand that drat trigger at all.

Flanker
Sep 10, 2002

OPERATORS GONNA OPERATE
After a good night's sleep


TapTheForwardAssist posted:

I was never particularly interested in the G36 until last year in Afghanistan, when both the Spanish and the Germans I worked with (any maybe one or two other countries) had them. Somewhere I've got pics from a previous tour of me posing with one; felt really long but really light, kind of like an M16A1 but even lighter and longer.


Just for a basic rundown, what's the basic US answer on "G36s" these days? Is it still something like "buy an SL8 for $1800, pay a guy $1000 to put G36 accessories and US parts in it."? What kind of price do people get to at the end of a conversion?

Are SL8->"G36" conversions kind of cobbled together junk and airsoft parts, or are they 95% of the way to being a decent semi-auto G36?

I had an easy time because Canadian SL8s ship with a G36 bolt face and double stack magazine out of the box. The folding lower portion and AR mag adapter were both US made and of medium quality, and a crazy LOP. Most SL8 conversions, including mine, were 95% decent rifles, genuine HK upgrades are available on hkparts.net

But for the money, you could pick up a SCAR, FN, or even HK91 and go to town.

Warbadger
Jun 17, 2006


TapTheForwardAssist posted:

I was never particularly interested in the G36 until last year in Afghanistan, when both the Spanish and the Germans I worked with (any maybe one or two other countries) had them. Somewhere I've got pics from a previous tour of me posing with one; felt really long but really light, kind of like an M16A1 but even lighter and longer.


Just for a basic rundown, what's the basic US answer on "G36s" these days? Is it still something like "buy an SL8 for $1800, pay a guy $1000 to put G36 accessories and US parts in it."? What kind of price do people get to at the end of a conversion?

Are SL8->"G36" conversions kind of cobbled together junk and airsoft parts, or are they 95% of the way to being a decent semi-auto G36?

The rundown on the current generation of full SL-8 to G36 conversions:

1) You only need the receiver and the trigger pack from an SL-8. Buy the cheapest one you can find and extra bonus points if you find one where somebody hosed around with the barrel or stock so you can seriously lowball it. Remember that the receiver will be refinished and have several major sections replaced anyways. Sell the remaining SL-8 parts.

You then buy a demilled G36 parts kit which lands you an entire chopped gun minus the center of the reciever where they chopped it up. You can get these as either a full package or piecemeal for some savings as people unload parts they don't need for their own builds. If you don't want to go the SBR route then go with either the G36E (the only barrels that are hard as hell to find!) or use your SL-8 barrel. Only a few portions of the SL-8 receiver differ from the G36 (the rear section and mag well namely) and fortunately the demilled G36 kits include those portions. To put it simply they cut your SL-8 receiver in the areas the two rifles differ and graft on the same sections from your parts kit. In this type of conversion very little of the original SL-8 is actually left after the conversion process (only those legally mandated to remain unchanged to ensure it remains an SL-8, like the serial#).


2) The price varies wildly based on how long you are willing to wait for prices on the parts. You see complete G36 parts kits come up occasionally between $900-$1200 (and buying piecemeal you can bring this down more) and used SL-8s could be had as low as around 1100 and on top of that you can sell a few of the parts (barrel, stock, rail) to bring that down a bit more. Manpower cost for the conversion ran around $750 from one of the top two smiths that do these and I'd definitely suggest not skimping on that. You can get it down to 2500 or so if you get good deals on the parts kit and rifle, then sell the spare bits.

3) In a full conversion as described above it is virtually identical to a G36 and 90% of the rifle (exceptions being the central portion of the receiver, the trigger, and those compliance parts) are G36 parts. Until you swap in the compliance parts the entire rifle is comprised of HK factory parts.

Warbadger fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Apr 19, 2011

star trek extra credit
Jun 3, 2007


Ninja Rope posted:

Like infrared said before Kommienzuspadt went all , I'd go with a USPc/LEM. The decocker on the P99 QA version supposedly disables the gun until you rack the slide, and the AS doesn't have the same trigger pull each time. I like the P99, I just wouldn't prefer to carry it. Try both and see which one you like better. Also shoulder holsters are silly.

Hm, my friend's P99 is the AS version, and I don't remember the decocker disabling the gun...however, its been a while. Will have to look into that.

Does anyone have an opinion on DA/SA USPs? I guess I'm old-fashioned, but those are just my favorite (I will try the LEM for sure).

Re:shoulder holster...I know its silly and all, but I wear a suit everyday to work, and fairly often on the weekends. Its easier than finding a gun belt that fits in tiny-rear end slack belt loops

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

VanFullOfMidgets posted:

Does anyone have an opinion on DA/SA USPs? I guess I'm old-fashioned, but those are just my favorite (I will try the LEM for sure).

Re:shoulder holster...I know its silly and all, but I wear a suit everyday to work, and fairly often on the weekends. Its easier than finding a gun belt that fits in tiny-rear end slack belt loops

DA/SA: They're fine if you train enough to get used to them. Not just the heavy first trigger pull, but automatically either safeing it or decocking it before it goes back to the holster. If you carry cocked and locked, you have to train to take the safety off automatically when you are ready to fire. You have to train to grip the gun so you're not trying to decock it while you're trying to fire it. Lots of little things.

Holster: Get a good quality inside-the-waistband holster. Then, belt size doesn't matter as much. You'll still want a sturdy belt, though.

Naramyth
Jan 22, 2009

Australia cares about cunts. Including this one.

VanFullOfMidgets posted:

Re:shoulder holster...I know its silly and all, but I wear a suit everyday to work, and fairly often on the weekends. Its easier than finding a gun belt that fits in tiny-rear end slack belt loops

Hell wearing a suit means you have a jacket. You could probably CCW a SBR AR or something without people noticing.

babyeatingpsychopath
Oct 28, 2000
Forum Veteran

I bought a USP 45f new back in '01. The only person to have fired it at that point was MORLACK. I put 60k rounds through it, and replaced the springs last summer.

It is a dream. I can hit the 100-yard plate over 95% of the time. That's a pistol that will shoot 6MOA standing, offhand. I'm sure other pistols are capable of that mechanical accuracy, but very very few have the controls and ergos to LET you do it.

I just want a light that fits the rail and a holster that fits that combo. And for magazines not to cost $3/round.

SyHopeful
Jun 24, 2007
May an IDF soldier mistakenly gun down my own parents and face no repercussions i'd totally be cool with it cuz accidents are unavoidable in a low-intensity conflict, man

Ninja Rope posted:

It's not?

I'm not an expert, but with a roller-delayed blowback you don't need to hang poo poo like a piston or gas tube off the barrel so the barrel can be free-floating, but on the downside the rollers and bolt require more complicated machining, and the rollers are less tolerant of dirt/damage/wear. Extraction is also rather violent and dirty.

I don't think HK makes any new roller-delayed systems. It's all blowback (UMP) or some kind of piston (416, XM8, G36).

that ridiculous hkpro website cited in the OP a lot was slobbering all over the roller-delayed scrotum and literally said it was the best action, and since HK fanboys are never wrong...

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wilfoy
Jan 21, 2004


I owned a P30 9mm and it was glorious...


...until I pulled the trigger. It was TERRIBLE. The worst part was the agonizingly long reset. It was at least 3/8 of an inch. Quick follow-up shots were nearly impossible, because you had to let the trigger out so far and it didn't have a lot of force pushing against your finger. I couldn't shoot it for poo poo because of how mushy the break was. Apparently Bruce Gray can work wonders on it, but I wasn't about to spend $350 to fix the trigger on a pistol that cost $780 on sale. That's my HK story and one is enough for me.

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