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human garbage bag
Jan 8, 2020


Do scopes have the rounds they are rated for labeled on the box? I need a scope for my 308 rifle and am planning to get the cheapest one from Walmart because there are no gun ranges around me that go beyond 200 yards.

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ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

Just because you are only shooting to 200y doesn't mean you should cheap out on a scope. Optics are very much get what you pay for. Look at mid range Vortex, Burris, Primary Arms scopes. Lots of decent stuff out there in the $300-$500 range. The sub $200 stuff is pretty bad.

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

human garbage bag posted:

Do scopes have the rounds they are rated for labeled on the box? I need a scope for my 308 rifle and am planning to get the cheapest one from Walmart because there are no gun ranges around me that go beyond 200 yards.

Anything that says rimfire is only rated for rimfire (22lr etc). Anything else that's advertised as a rifle scope made by a reputable company should stand up to 308. Maybe not the cheapest piece of crap they sell at Walmart though. Do yourself a favor and spend $150 at least.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
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and you are
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Illegal Hen

Don't the mounts also need to be factored into how well an optic can take recoil? I remember something about the SCAR-17 being an optic eater as its recoil impulse would cause issues.

Atticus_1354
Dec 9, 2006

Don't you go near that dog, you understand? Don't go near him, he's just as dangerous dead as alive.


Android Apocalypse posted:

Don't the mounts also need to be factored into how well an optic can take recoil? I remember something about the SCAR-17 being an optic eater as its recoil impulse would cause issues.

What's that have to do with the mount? Yeah spend money buying good rings or mounts because it is the interface between the gun and scope so it needs to be secure and accurate.

Dr. Gojo Shioji
Apr 22, 2004




I give them credit for coming up with an outside-the-box design in a pretty staid market, but goddamn this thing is paralyzingly ugly. Add in the fact that it doesn't work with hammer-fired guns and it becomes difficult for me to get excited about it.

jwang
Mar 31, 2013


That and the fact that installing one on your slide means that any maintenance means you need to take it off to remove the slide. The way it's rear hangs over the back plate means that it obstructs any attempt to remove the slide, though with a low maintenance gun like Glocks that probably won't be as much of an issue.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



Dr. Gojo Shioji posted:

I give them credit for coming up with an outside-the-box design in a pretty staid market, but goddamn this thing is paralyzingly ugly. Add in the fact that it doesn't work with hammer-fired guns and it becomes difficult for me to get excited about it.

Who uses hammer fired guns anymore?

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


Android Apocalypse posted:

This showed up on my YT front page:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWWzzSySxIA

Not gonna lie, I'm excited at this development. If it can handle an Aaron Cowan torture test from being dropped & bashed about, this could be an awesome option for concealed carry.

One thing that surprised me is that the battery is horizontal. IMO I would've had it resting along the backplate to help minimize size, but I'm not an electrical engineer (and this may help prevent accidental button pressing.

Yeah, I got super excited watching that as well (the unpowered ghost ring use was cool), especially since they have an M&P model. It's just so pricey right now. Hopefully they'll come down in price over time or people will sell their used ones.

And I wonder if the battery is like that because the reciprocation of the slide was either causing electrical malfunctions with the battery or it was just coming off under force.

As far as Aaron Cowan goes, how the hell does he afford all the ammo he goes through for his testing? Is he independently wealthy or does is his business just doing exceptionally well? I mean, he goes through 500 rounds just for the "burndown" and 2000 overall for each thing he tests, including during the current ammo shortage.


jwang posted:

That and the fact that installing one on your slide means that any maintenance means you need to take it off to remove the slide. The way it's rear hangs over the back plate means that it obstructs any attempt to remove the slide, though with a low maintenance gun like Glocks that probably won't be as much of an issue.

No, you can remove the slide with it still installed, you just have to remove the battery cover. You will have to remove it if you want to detail strip the slide, but that's a rare enough event that it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

jwang
Mar 31, 2013


Glad to know that's a concern that I was totally wrong about. Guess I'll keep a closer eye on these things, it's actually pretty nifty, and hopefully with better future battery technologies it'll become even more compact and sleek.

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


jwang posted:

Glad to know that's a concern that I was totally wrong about. Guess I'll keep a closer eye on these things, it's actually pretty nifty, and hopefully with better future battery technologies it'll become even more compact and sleek.

Yeah, it is pretty large and I hope it is popular enough for them to continue making new versions. I want one but the price is somewhat prohibitive when I can't try it out for myself first.

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


Usual request:

Does anyone have one of these tools that came with the original Holosun 507C?

https://www.holosun.eu/p/70142716

If so, could you take some caliper measurements, particularly the length, width, and thickness of both the adjustment flathead and the nubs for the battery door removal, as well as the distance between the two nubs?

Wa11y
Jul 23, 2002

Did I say "cookies?" I meant, "Fire in your face!"

Toshokan posted:

Usual request:

Does anyone have one of these tools that came with the original Holosun 507C?

https://www.holosun.eu/p/70142716

If so, could you take some caliper measurements, particularly the length, width, and thickness of both the adjustment flathead and the nubs for the battery door removal, as well as the distance between the two nubs?

The flathead is .096" wide, .0395" thick, and .060" tall at the shortest point (the top of the ring it comes out of).

The nubs are .041" wide, .041" thick, and .041" tall. The gap between the nubs is .355".

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


Always Wa11y with the rando measurements or asking for them

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


Wa11y posted:

The flathead is .096" wide, .0395" thick, and .060" tall at the shortest point (the top of the ring it comes out of).

The nubs are .041" wide, .041" thick, and .041" tall. The gap between the nubs is .355".

Awesome! Thanks!

Wa11y
Jul 23, 2002

Did I say "cookies?" I meant, "Fire in your face!"

I'm not finding anything, so I hope someone else knows: I have a BSA Sweet 22 Compact AO scope, and all the BSA Sweet scopes come with BDC caps. Does anyone make a turret cap that's just in normal (1/2 MOA in my case) gradients instead of a silly BDC that almost certainly will not line up (I'm using the 40 grain cap and will only be shooting CCI SV which is 40 grain, but the included literature says theirs is setup for 1260 FPS at the muzzle, and the CCI SV does about 1050 FPS)?

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009

RIP Blindsite
He Never Scored


Lapping scope rings waste of time or worth the effort?

Vortex scope and mdt rings.

L0cke17
Nov 29, 2013



BlindSite posted:

Lapping scope rings waste of time or worth the effort?

Vortex scope and mdt rings.

Almost never worth it unless it's on a very very accurate precision rifle imo.

If you're trying to hit 1moa targets at 1k yards regularly sure. Otherwise just don't bother.

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

L0cke17 posted:

Almost never worth it unless it's on a very very accurate precision rifle imo.

If you're trying to hit 1moa targets at 1k yards regularly sure. Otherwise just don't bother.

My understanding is that it's also worth considering for very high recoil firearms because lapping increases the surface area between the rings and the scope which in turn improves friction and minimizes the risk of drift between the rings and the scope.

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

poeticoddity posted:

My understanding is that it's also worth considering for very high recoil firearms because lapping increases the surface area between the rings and the scope which in turn improves friction and minimizes the risk of drift between the rings and the scope.

I had to lap my Aero mount for use on my 458 Socom for this very reason.

BlindSite
Feb 8, 2009

RIP Blindsite
He Never Scored


.308 for at the very most out to 800m but that will be once in a blue moon.

Cheers for the advice.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

I'm scheduled to get PRK surgery in a couple weeks and i got some questions for anybody here that had it:

-Light blooming/halo's are possible, especially at night. I run Holosun 503's & EOTech's (553, EXPS 3-4) on my rifles, and an RMR on my pistol; will I have any issues using them after surgery? Basic internet searching says this is temporary, but has anybody had long-lasting issues with it?

-Any issues running NVG's after PRK surgery?

I currently wear contacts that fix my nearsightedness/astigmatism. Apparently my astigmatism is mild enough that I don't get the blurry dot with red dots like Aimpoint.

I'm just bring anxious after signing the forms okaying the procedure, right?

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


Android Apocalypse posted:

I'm just bring anxious after signing the forms okaying the procedure, right?

I don't want to scare you off the surgery but since you asked...

I had PRK about 12 years ago? Took me from about 20/200 to 20/25. My corrected vision before the surgery was better than my vision after the surgery, but it was nice not wearing glasses for a decade. Now that I'm in my late 30s, I'm wearing glasses again. Though my vision without them is more like 20/35 these days. I probably don't strictly need them and I can get away with doing most things without them.

I still have light blooming issues especially at night or when tired/dehydrated. I don't enjoy driving at night, it can be challenging, though it improved dramatically in the first 6 months or so, it never got back to normal.

I do get blooming/spiderwebbing on the majority of red dots I've tried. Not sure if the astigmatism was made worse by the surgery or if I never really noticed it before I had it. The only red dot experience I had prior was Aimpoints on work rifles. More of an occasional annoyance than an actual problem in that regard, I shoot fine with red dots.

I had dry eyes for a while after surgery but it eventually went away.

No issues with NVGs.

I'm not sure whether I would do it again if given the choice.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

I do appreciate you sharing your experience, thank you.

I'm creeping into my mid-40's, so I figured "better late than never." 10+ years of being completely free of having to wear any form of corrective lenses is not bad IMO, though the light blooming at night is really concerning me. You mentioned it's challenging to drive; is the blooming that bad?

I guess the only other concern I have about is that I heard eye surgery makes them more susceptible to issues in extreme pressure changes. A part of me wants to take skydiving off my bucket list but I thought I heard that eye surgery makes it a no-go.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


It doesn't affect my driving at all unless it's dark out. I don't think it's bad enough to be unsafe or impair me, but it's annoying. I get a starburst effect off things like oncoming headlights and traffic lights at night. It's minor most of the time but if my eyes are strained or I'm fatigued, it gets worse.

Edit: i would say your age is probably a better fit for.it than me getting it it my mid-late 20s. In addition, while not as good as it was, having my uncorrected eyesight be good enough for most day to day stuff is really nice. Being able to see the alarm clock, etc - little stuff like that. And some days I still don't even wear my glasses because depending on what I'm doing, I don't really need to.

Tyro fucked around with this message at 10:33 on May 27, 2021

Ophidian
Jan 12, 2005

Woo WOO, Look a Parrot...
LOOK AT IT!


I had lasik 4 years ago and it was the best quality of life purchase Iíve made to date. I was -4.0 and it was a giant pain in the rear end so I had my eyes lasers.

I had some of the dry eye issues and galling initially but that went drat near completely away within a few weeks. I donít really notice the halos during night driving anymore and I donít notice much, if any blurriness using dots.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

My brother had one of the eye surgeries quite some time ago, maybe 20 years, and he says that the starburst thing during night driving was annoying. But, it was better than those mornings when he woke up and forgot where he glasses were, because finding them was often very difficult.

He also has told me that he may need glasses at some point anyway, now that he's older and his eyesight has changed over time.

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.


tarlibone posted:



He also has told me that he may need glasses at some point anyway, now that he's older and his eyesight has changed over time.

Yeah, I had LASIK done a couple of years ago at 44, and they said "Do you need reading glasses?" and I said "No" and they said "Well then you will." The idea was that my nearsightedness was compensating for age-related farsightedness, so once the nearsiightedness was corrected I'd need glasses for close-up stuff. Which I do, occasionally, if the light is dim or the text is extremely small or low-contrast. But totally worth it. Still some halo around discrete points of light at night but honestly it's no worse than the fact that your glasses are never perfectly clean and will smudge out discrete points of light anyway.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

Ophidian posted:

I had lasik 4 years ago and it was the best quality of life purchase Iíve made to date. I was -4.0 and it was a giant pain in the rear end so I had my eyes lasers.

I had some of the dry eye issues and galling initially but that went drat near completely away within a few weeks. I donít really notice the halos during night driving anymore and I donít notice much, if any blurriness using dots.

I have -10.50 vision so not having to wear any form of corrective lenses would be nice. Heck, even being able to do an impromptu swim without needing to take out my contacts is something I'm looking forward to.

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

Android Apocalypse posted:

I have -10.50 vision so not having to wear any form of corrective lenses would be nice. Heck, even being able to do an impromptu swim without needing to take out my contacts is something I'm looking forward to.

I haven't had any corneal surgery, but I did my PhD in a vision lab and later worked with the guy who developed the math used to create LASIK.

The most sound advice I've heard regarding corneal surgical decisions probably came from the one visual psychophysicist I know who's had LASIK. He advised having your corneal topography measured at least three times at different times of day and making sure whoever was doing the surgery had that info.

Basically, the shape of your cornea changes over the course of the day and with variations in intraocular pressure (which is loosely tied to blood pressure, which also changes over the day). Getting a few measurements that can be averaged together means your corrections won't be specifically made for a narrow set of conditions, so you end up with a good correction for all of the time instead of a great correction for X hours after you wake up when your intraocular pressure is at Y percent of average.

He said it was totally worth paying out of pocket for extra measurements because he had significantly fewer issues with glare than most people, and that was coming from a guy who did glare research with me.

That being said, holy gently caress, -10.50. Yeah, I don't normally suggest myopic people go for corneal surgeries, but I'd want it too in your shoes.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

I guess I'm just lucky. Almost everyone in my family is nearsighted, but my dad and I weren't. So, I've never had to wear glasses. I had my vision checked several years ago when I suddenly developed spider webs and floaters, and the ophthalmologist said that I had such a slight need for a prescription that it wouldn't be worth it the cost of glasses.

Even then, though, I would occasionally have trouble viewing things up close sharply. Or things across the room, if I spent too much time staring at my work computer screen. Over the last few years, this has gotten progressively worse, and I've had reading glasses stashed around the house for when it gets particularly bad. Lately, it's just something I need to wear whenever I want to read anything up close, unless I happen to be having a good day. Some days, I can't read anything with small print or low contrast without reading glasses. I'm squinting a lot now.

My doctor said I'm well within the age to start dealing with presbyopia, and he's right. It is distressing at times, though, because my eyesight was one of the things I took for granted.

my kinda ape
Sep 15, 2008

Everything's gonna be A-OK


Oven Wrangler

I'm mild-moderately nearsighted and would love to get my eyes fixed but between being a farmer and having guns as a hobby the fact that I'm wearing glasses has saved me from getting hit in the eye by random stuff so many times. Kind of scared to not have that layer of protection at all times.

boxen
Feb 20, 2011


I had PRK a few years ago, had crap vision and some level of astigmatism (more than "mild", but I never had it corrected so I don't remember how bad it actually was). Started wearing glasses when I was 11, got surgery when I was around 35, that was a few years ago.

Fuuuuck it's nice. I wake up in the middle of the night, and I don't have to fumble around in the dark for my glasses. Fall asleep on the couch, my contacts aren't glued into my eyes, or I don't have to fumble around for my glasses. Laying on the couch watching TV, decide to roll over onto my stomach, don't need to take off my glasses. Want to go swimming? Just jump in the goddamned water.

I never thought having glasses/contacts was a huge deal, but it is SO nice to not have to deal with that poo poo anymore. A buddy of mine got his first pair of glasses about the same time I got surgery, I enjoy calling him a nerd every time I see him now.

Before the surgery, I had bad enough astigmatism that red dots were real hard to use unless the brightness was way down; I'd see some sort of hourglass shape and sort of aim for the middle. I always had a starburst around bright lights.
Post surgery, a lot of my astigmatism is corrected but some is still there. I have a DeltaPoint Pro on a pistol (3MOA dot, I think), it's usable as long as the brightness isn't super cranked. I still have a bloom around headlights, but I don't think it's as bad as it was.

Going into the surgery, I was nervous and the offered me some anti-anxiety meds which I kept. Apparently they worked, I remember asking if they could touch up my eyebrows when they turned the laser on. Buddy of mine gave me a ride home, and I was more or less blind for a day-ish (i had queued up some audiobooks before I left, and had my buddy hit play when he dropped me off), and over a week things steadily improved. I was taking some vitamin supplements to help healing, and had some eyedrops I did 2-3 times per day to help with the dryness. Eventually the drops were needed less and less, but I still carried a little bottle around (nothing medicated) just in case for another two years or so. Eventually I stopped having issues and didn't need them anymore, I might grab them if I'm going somewhere real dry or dusty.

But yeah. Huge difference for me, zero regrets. I don't think I hit quite what i could get corrected after surgery, but it's plenty good enough. My contact lenses were such that I needed to wear reading glasses to sit comfortably at a computer all day, or work on small parts close-up, I haven't felt the need since surgery.

Buying sunglasses is fun now, I don't have to even think about prescription lenses or think "these will only be useful if I'm wearing contacts". Same with eyepro, I'm better about wearing it because I can just buy normal stuff.

Keep us posted, I'm excited for you.

my kinda ape posted:

I'm mild-moderately nearsighted and would love to get my eyes fixed but between being a farmer and having guns as a hobby the fact that I'm wearing glasses has saved me from getting hit in the eye by random stuff so many times. Kind of scared to not have that layer of protection at all times.

Yeah, that's a bit of a thing, but you can also buy normal safety glasses instead of perscription lenses. I have two pairs of shooting eyepronow, another pair of shop glasses, and two pairs of big Dewalt goggles I use for when things get serious. Having my vision fixed is better than contacts for me too, as occasionally I'd get something UNDER my contact and that'd be a nightmare, or lose one in my eye. I was driving across a 2-lane bridge that always feels narrow, and just after I started crossing it one of my contacts fell out. Crossing that bridge in the rain, in traffic, when the bridge feels slightly claustrophobic normally and doing it with NO DEPTH PERCEPTION was not enjoyable.


Edit: I don't remember what my eyesight numbers were before or after the surgery, but I do remember my contact lenses were 5.25 in one eye and 5.5 in the other, if that tells anyone anything. I gleefully threw all that poo poo away after the surgery.

boxen fucked around with this message at 16:20 on May 27, 2021

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

tarlibone posted:

I guess I'm just lucky. Almost everyone in my family is nearsighted, but my dad and I weren't. So, I've never had to wear glasses. I had my vision checked several years ago when I suddenly developed spider webs and floaters, and the ophthalmologist said that I had such a slight need for a prescription that it wouldn't be worth it the cost of glasses.

Even then, though, I would occasionally have trouble viewing things up close sharply. Or things across the room, if I spent too much time staring at my work computer screen. Over the last few years, this has gotten progressively worse, and I've had reading glasses stashed around the house for when it gets particularly bad. Lately, it's just something I need to wear whenever I want to read anything up close, unless I happen to be having a good day. Some days, I can't read anything with small print or low contrast without reading glasses. I'm squinting a lot now.

My doctor said I'm well within the age to start dealing with presbyopia, and he's right. It is distressing at times, though, because my eyesight was one of the things I took for granted.

Presbyopia is an anatomical inevitability, as are cataracts, because your lens expands, opacifies, and hardens as you age. Presbyopia can be addressed via glasses, but the only other option is the same treatment for cataracts - lens replacement.

I'm hoping it becomes more normal for people to get "clear lens replacement" surgery as a correction for presbyopia because the surgical outcomes tend to be better when you're presbyopia onset age than cataract age, but currently it's not commonly done in pre-cararact patients because insurance companies won't cover it.

Disclosure: I've got a patent pending vision testing system which could potentially be used to assess the visual performance changes needed to justify clear lens replacement surgery.

Myopic people tend to develop presbyopia a few years later than emmetropic counterparts, and hyperopic people tend to develop it a few years earlier. The reason for hyperopia and presbyopia are significantly different, but the optical effects similarly compound. Myopia and presbyopia have offsetting effects, but eventually presbyopia overpowers myopia in almost everyone.

Phanatic
Mar 13, 2007

Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.


my kinda ape posted:

I'm mild-moderately nearsighted and would love to get my eyes fixed but between being a farmer and having guns as a hobby the fact that I'm wearing glasses has saved me from getting hit in the eye by random stuff so many times. Kind of scared to not have that layer of protection at all times.

One of the nicer things about LASIK is that when I put on safety glasses I don't have to put them on over my regular glasses.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


Does anyone make an enclosed optic that fits a RMR footprint?

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


Dead Reckoning posted:

Does anyone make an enclosed optic that fits a RMR footprint?

The Holosun 509T doesn't fit by itself, but it comes with an RMR adapter plate.

https://www.holosun.com/index/product/detail/id/117.html

Is that sufficient?

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


RMR requires 2 screws from the top which makes enclosed options not possible on that mount. Youíll have to use adapter plates.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


Toshokan posted:

The Holosun 509T doesn't fit by itself, but it comes with an RMR adapter plate.

https://www.holosun.com/index/product/detail/id/117.html

Is that sufficient?
It might work. I'll probably just end up going with a HS507 though. It's not as though this is going to be a Serious Business rifle.

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Tyro
Nov 10, 2009


How much would you all say a 1st gen Vortex Crossfire red dot is worth these days? (The CF-RD1, which is the one with the 7k hour battery life and no NV settings). I assume they'd hold value due to Vortex's lifetime warranty, but with all the new competition in that space I haven't been paying attention to prices.

I found two of them on clearance, old stock new in box, I'm debating going back to pick them up. I didn't buy them because I don't have rifles in need of optics but if the market will bear $100 a unit or so, it might be worth my time to grab and resell them.

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