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Phy posted:The Danish Valhalla comic also gets into those (judging by the wikipedia article about it, since I've never read a one of 'em), as well as Thor and Loki at Utgard-Loki's castle, which is probably my favorite Thor tale I've heard so far. Is that the same myth where Loki is in a foot race with Thought or something like that? Takes place at a feast, right?
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Apr 21, 2020 01:11
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Proteus Jones posted:Is that the same myth where Loki is in a foot race with Thought or something like that? Takes place at a feast, right? Thjalfi, but yes.
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Apr 21, 2020 01:30
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Loki's challenge was trying to eat more than someone who turned out to be fire, I think.
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Apr 21, 2020 01:35
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Catfishenfuego posted:I for one want a story that truly grasps the grandiose seriousness of Norse mythology, perhaps by adapting the story where Thor dresses up as a hot woman for a fake marriage and beats up giants to get his hammer back or the story where Loki fucks a horse. They actually did the former one! (well, in Marvel, so I'm sure some liberties were taken and it doesn't match 1:1 with the actual myths)     from The Mighty Thor 12.1 And googling the latter finds that Sleipnir is around in Marvel and has two origins, one with a bunch of magic bullshit and one where Loki fucks a horse. In the Marvel Pet Handbook, which is a thing I just learned exists, Marvel dances around this, because of course  Like, they don't mention it in his "History" but right up there in "relatives", WELP.
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Apr 21, 2020 04:27
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 I fuckin' knew it. There's no way they wouldn't keep that part of the Sleipnir story.
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Apr 21, 2020 04:39
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TwoPair posted:Like, they don't mention it in his "History" but right up there in "relatives", WELP.
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Apr 21, 2020 04:49
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I love comic book power rankings. Spider-Horse can gallop at the speed of light and his speed is still listed as 6 out of 10.
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Apr 21, 2020 06:41
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I remember reading Gaiman's book on Norse mythology and discovering that (a) Loki seduced that horse and (b) the whole thing happened because the Asgardians wanted to build a wall around their kingdom and not pay for it.
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Apr 21, 2020 11:56
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Senior Woodchuck posted:I remember reading Gaiman's book on Norse mythology and discovering that (a) Loki seduced that horse and (b) the whole thing happened because the Asgardians wanted to build a wall around their kingdom and not pay for it. Wow strong Pence and Trump vibes.
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Apr 21, 2020 12:09
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Threep posted:The way they tell it in the history section is the same way it's usually told in the myth. It's not like it's not obvious what happened when Loki turns into a mare, lures away a stallion and comes back with a colt. It's never actually confirmed in any of the legends, Loki used a "ham", essentially a changeling suit, to change into the mare, returned months later with a foal and an oddly expanded suit. Obviously, Loki denied everything and nobody believed him. Sleipner is actually a pretty cool horse, it can ride anywhere, much like Thor's rams, in any world, it serves as Odin's primary mean of transportation. It was said, that it had a leg in each world.
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Apr 21, 2020 12:23
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Saoshyant posted:For anyone who cares, it was a small webcomic published on Live Journal (a million years ago) called Loli Loves Venom (yes, that was its name, but it was wholesome) and it was the creation of now industry veteran Joana Lafuente (amazing colorist, and artist). Can only be found in Web Archive these days. It wasn't this, it's called Spider-Man and Venom: Double Trouble.
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Apr 21, 2020 13:12
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Azubah posted:It wasn't this, it's called Spider-Man and Venom: Double Trouble. Oops. Didn't know that one actually, and it looks neat from whatever images are online. I don't generally like Gurihiru on art, but on this sort of thing they are a good fit and bonus point that it's not the usual attempt at generic anime inspired art. I'll be checking it out, thanks.
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Apr 21, 2020 13:24
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Push El Burrito posted:Wow strong Pence and Trump vibes. Right down to the incessant lying.
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Apr 21, 2020 13:41
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Agaragon posted:I love comic book power rankings. Spider-Horse can gallop at the speed of light and his speed is still listed as 6 out of 10. The marvel power grid system is based on a 1-7 scale with a 6 for speed being lightspeed and 7 being faster than light or teleportation.
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Apr 21, 2020 16:49
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Push El Burrito posted:Wow strong Pence and Trump vibes. It would be like if Trump asked the mexicans to build his wall and promised Ivanka Trump as payment.
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Apr 21, 2020 17:18
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Alhazred posted:It would be like if Trump asked the mexicans to build his wall and promised Ivanka Trump as payment. Except nobody would take that deal.
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Apr 21, 2020 17:44
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Phy posted:The Danish Valhalla comic also gets into those (judging by the wikipedia article about it, since I've never read a one of 'em), as well as Thor and Loki at Utgard-Loki's castle, which is probably my favorite Thor tale I've heard so far. The Valhalla comic is really good, partly because it doesn't shy away from the fact that the norse gods were stupid assholes:   
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Apr 21, 2020 18:29
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Matt Fraction wrote a mini series that goes by varying names, the most common one being Ages of Thunder, that retells many of those classic norse myths and ends with Thor being de-godded for all the murder. They do the wall thing, the bride thing, the sowing loki's mouth, etc. There's a lot of meta-text about the power of unreliable narration in myths and how those might be affecting the events, and Loki was still a big villain back then so he's more of a prick than he is in the usual retellings, but it's still an interesting look. Certainly better than his run on the main book.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:35
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Lurdiak posted:Matt Fraction wrote a mini series that goes by varying names, the most common one being Ages of Thunder, that retells many of those classic norse myths and ends with Thor being de-godded for all the murder. They do the wall thing, the bride thing, the sowing loki's mouth, etc. There's a lot of meta-text about the power of unreliable narration in myths and how those might be affecting the events, and Loki was still a big villain back then so he's more of a prick than he is in the usual retellings, but it's still an interesting look. Was that part of Marvel or an indie thing?
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Apr 21, 2020 19:37
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Skwirl posted:Was that part of Marvel or an indie thing? It was Marvel, used the branding and the character designs and all, but its status in continuity is deliberately vague. Here it is
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Apr 21, 2020 19:41
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Lurdiak posted:It was Marvel, used the branding and the character designs and all, but its status in continuity is deliberately vague. Cool, thanks. For anyone else interested it's also on Marvel Unlimited under the title Thor: Ages of Thunder. Also Marvel should hire me to go through and properly sort their titles, what's even more annoying than having a half dozen different titles called Amazing Spider-Man? having half under A for Amazing and half under T for The Amazing.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:53
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iirc some of the Aesir just seeming like drunk rear end in a top hat idiots all the time may also be because a lot of the stories we get are from post-Christian influence, where pagan gods were made to be mocked and reviled but that may just be some post doc thesis.
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Apr 21, 2020 20:18
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At least some of the myths we have come from the people writing down the myths trying to own people they don't like. For example, Ares was the patron god of Sparta, which Athens did not get along with, so all the surviving Athenian Greek myths (which is most of what we have) paint Ares as a big dumb angry idiot who gets owned all the time.
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Apr 21, 2020 21:12
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Lurdiak posted:At least some of the myths we have come from the people writing down the myths trying to own people they don't like. For example, Ares was the patron god of Sparta, which Athens did not get along with, so all the surviving Athenian Greek myths (which is most of what we have) paint Ares as a big dumb angry idiot who gets owned all the time. yeah but sparta sucks though
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Apr 22, 2020 01:08
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akulanization posted:yeah but sparta sucks though They invented the pithy comeback though.
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Apr 22, 2020 01:14
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akulanization posted:yeah but sparta sucks though Counterpoint - Sparta was actually more progressive than Athens when it came to the rights of women.
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Apr 22, 2020 01:24
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W.T. Fits posted:Counterpoint - Sparta was actually more progressive than Athens when it came to the rights of women. What the gently caress Athens? quote:Unlike women in Athens, if a Spartan woman became the heiress of her father because she had no living brothers to inherit (an epikleros), the woman was not required to divorce her current spouse in order to marry her nearest paternal relative
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Apr 22, 2020 01:51
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W.T. Fits posted:Counterpoint - Sparta was actually more progressive than Athens when it came to the rights of women. they were a society based on the brutal repression of a massive slave underclass. you do not in fact have to hand it to them. athens is also pretty lame to be clear, but sparta is one of the most systematically evil societies to ever exist.
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Apr 22, 2020 01:53
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Skwirl posted:What the gently caress Athens? Remember Athens was really one of the first attempts at this whole society thing so they made a lot of dumb choices.
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Apr 22, 2020 01:54
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Wow, I'm starting to think these folks from ~5th century BC were totally nuts!
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Apr 22, 2020 02:06
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You'd be kinda hosed up too if your dates were counting down instead of up. I mean, what were they counting down to?!
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Apr 22, 2020 02:09
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TwoPair posted:Wow, I'm starting to think these folks from ~5th century BC were totally nuts!
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Apr 22, 2020 03:18
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EDIT: Eh, others have said it better than me
Unlucky7 fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Apr 22, 2020 |
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Apr 22, 2020 05:47
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akulanization posted:they were a society based on the brutal repression of a massive slave underclass. you do not in fact have to hand it to them. Right. I don't wanna get too long-winded, but judging Sparta by the rights and privileges of Spartiate women (which is what that Wikipedia article is talking about) is like judging America by the rights and privileges of its multimillionaires and billionaires. And by "massive slave underclass", something like 85% of the population within Sparta's borders were helots, their slave class. (Compare to about 30% in the American South just before the civil war.) And, the brutal repression included formalized yearly war on the helots as well as terrorization by a secret police.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:10
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poly and open-minded posted:iirc some of the Aesir just seeming like drunk rear end in a top hat idiots all the time may also be because a lot of the stories we get are from post-Christian influence, where pagan gods were made to be mocked and reviled but that may just be some post doc thesis.
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Apr 22, 2020 06:50
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W.T. Fits posted:Counterpoint - Sparta was actually more progressive than Athens when it came to the rights of women. Not really, since the vast, vast majority of women in Sparta were not Spartiate women, and so were often literally slaves who were hunted for sport. There's a good multi-part essay on why Sparta was garbage at everything they did on this blog.
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Apr 22, 2020 13:44
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It is worth remembering many polytheist gods were depicted as assholes for a variety of reasons, partially to make them easier to sympathize with from a fallible mortal perspective, partially to get around the problem of evil. If the gods weren't perfect, then there was no need to think about why we didn't live in a perfect world.
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Apr 22, 2020 21:49
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akulanization posted:they were a society based on the brutal repression of a massive slave underclass. you do not in fact have to hand it to them. Exactly. We have a dumb way of looking at things. "Well, the Athenians were all enlightened and their enemies were spartans, so the Spartans were the baddies, right?" "No." "Ohh. Then the Spartans were the good guys!" "No. They were both awful." "But that makes for boring movies!" Sparta only allowed spartiate women realtive freedom because 1- It was a way to retain all power in the structure of families even after most of the men died in wars), and 2- day-to-day drudgery and amangement was seem as menial, unworthy work for a male. It'd be like saying "Hey, we really value our latino population, they dominate 95% of the sanitation and recycling work! seems really egalitarian to me". And, as others said, that only applied to perhaps a couple thousand wives. The vast majority of slaves and pretty much everyone in their Messenian colony was viewed as human cattle. Oh, and even those 'liberated' spartiate women were bred against their will at the convenience of the military machine. "This guy has good shoulders, you have good hips. Your offspring will be a good soldier. Get to the rutting."
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Apr 23, 2020 00:28
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Alhazred posted:That doesn't seem to be the case with Snorre Sturlason though. He wrote it with respect for the takes he grew up with but he was still born almost 200 years after Iceland converted to Christianity so there was plenty of time for oral tradition to warp the original stories.
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Apr 23, 2020 07:19
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:He wrote it with respect for the takes he grew up with but he was still born almost 200 years after Iceland converted to Christianity so there was plenty of time for oral tradition to warp the original stories. No doubt. Some even thinks he based the myth of ragnarok on the christian apocalypse and not on norse myths.
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Apr 23, 2020 10:57
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