Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«518 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Rock My Socks!
Aug 6, 2009


I nabbed the m4/3 40-150mm yesterday at my local camera shop for $99. I think they had it mismarked as the regular 4/3 version. Seems pretty decent so far for such a tiny lens.



Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

Does anyone here have a Samsung NX100 that can offer any insight on it? They're going cheap nowadays with the kit lens and I think getting a 30mm f/2 lens to go with it would make it pretty good for an everyday carry camera. The most pressing issue for me would be high iso performance at 1600 and 3200 since I tend to use cameras in poorly-lit places a lot and there's no built-in flash.

poopinmymouth
Mar 2, 2005

PROUD 2 B AMERICAN (these colors don't run)

HPL posted:

Does anyone here have a Samsung NX100 that can offer any insight on it? They're going cheap nowadays with the kit lens and I think getting a 30mm f/2 lens to go with it would make it pretty good for an everyday carry camera. The most pressing issue for me would be high iso performance at 1600 and 3200 since I tend to use cameras in poorly-lit places a lot and there's no built-in flash.

It seems pretty nice and a reasonable performer, but I heard it's kind of heavy. The nx200 looks much nicer imo, but obviously won't be going for cheap.

Studebaker Hawk
May 22, 2004



Excited for a possible alternative to the MP-E 65mm since mine was stolen: http://www.yasuhara.co.jp/nanoha/index-e.html

daspope
Sep 20, 2006



I am really considering the x100 but want some video capabilities. Can the x100 shoot good video without running out of battery in a few minutes?

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

Man, Canon and Nikon better up their game on the DSLR front what with cameras like the NEX-5n putting out D3-like high ISO performance.

poopinmymouth
Mar 2, 2005

PROUD 2 B AMERICAN (these colors don't run)

daspope posted:

I am really considering the x100 but want some video capabilities. Can the x100 shoot good video without running out of battery in a few minutes?

I don't shoot much, but the times I have it's worked just fine, and 720p is really awesome for basic youtube videos or facebook sharing. I'm sure you get at least 3-5x the 10 minute max length videos.

ThisQuietReverie
Jul 22, 2004

I am not as I was.


daspope posted:

I am really considering the x100 but want some video capabilities. Can the x100 shoot good video without running out of battery in a few minutes?

Caveat: I've shot a total of maybe 6 minutes of footage on it. I'm not a videographer and I almost always forget that it shoots video.

You might want to post your capabilities requirements. The x100 shoots 1280x720@24 fps only. You select the aperture to use before shooting and the camera locks it during recording (this may not be the case if you leave the aperture on A, I'm not sure). ISO is handled entirely by the camera. There is a 3x digital zoom but it's either zoomed or not, no in-between. You have control over white balance and film simulation. You're restricted to 10 minute clips which is standard to avoid European taxes on camcorders.

In AFS-S & AFS-C mode the x100 handles all the focusing and does a pretty good job of not doing it in a jarring way. If you're in a very quiet environment the in-camera mic will pick up the servo noise during focusing (giving a half pass to the x100 here because the x100 is drat quiet while focusing, but only a half pass because there is no way to use an external mic). In AFS-M mode you can manually focus with the focus ring (still not great) or back button focus with the AEL button (works great).


So that is a lot of words to say that the video capabilities of the x100 seem entirely built around casual use and opportunistic clips. Personally, I'm ok with it. There are all manners of whiz bang poo poo on my Canons that I've never used because using video to tell a narrative doesn't interest me right now.

That said, the x100 does do something that my DSLR can't and that is look through the viewfinder while recording (EVF only) which can be a pretty big deal if you feel like recording something while staring at the back screen of a DSLR is the most unnatural, gooberish thing ever.

daspope
Sep 20, 2006



Thank you both. I am getting way to interested in the x100 now. I had the d7000 which did great video at 1080p but only at 24p. I also was syncing the audio in post when it mattered so having no input doesnt really matter. It will look really goofy if i do use my two slot coldshoe mount with a h4n and a rode video mic on top of the x100. All the new cameras are advancing in video so quickly each generation I'd rather get something for now that shoots good photos and some video and just wait it out another year or two. I just wish I had the money for the x100 now.

Anti-Derivative
Aug 12, 2003
Beware of Squirrel


I really want to get the new Olympus 45mm F1.8 prime lens that just came out. Thing is, I only got the drat GF2 last month and it's my first interchangeable lens camera so I probably should just chill out.

http://robinwong.blogspot.com/2011/...w-petaling.html

Looks really good for use as a walking around lens (better than the 14mm Panasonic anyway.) The new X 14-42 might also be good, but its only advantage for me would be the fact that it collapses since I already have the kit zoom. Nonetheless, I am glad that all sorts of lenses are coming out for these Cameras and that they are in no way getting left behind as any sort of niche market.

Rock My Socks!
Aug 6, 2009


If you don't mind manual focus, why not just get a legacy 50mm f/1.4? It will give you an even shallower DOF for like 1/4 the price.

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

I got to mess around with a Pentax Q today. It really is small, like the size of a small point and shoot. Operation is crisp and swift enough in good light, not unlike any other point and shoot. If there's a money feature on it, it's the custom setting dial on the front. I think that's what more advanced photographers will like about the Q.

Pockyless
Jun 5, 2004
With flaming Canadians and such :(

Nikon announces their mirrorless system: the Nikon 1 series.

http://dpreview.com/news/1109/11092120nikonlaunch.asp

Key features are:
  • 13.2mm x 8.8mm (2.7x crop factor) 10MP sensor
  • New CX mount
  • Two bodies: the consumer focused J1 and the higher end V1. The main difference is the EVF in the V1.
  • "hybrid autofocus" a mix of phase detection and contrast based AF with 73 AF points.
  • Video capture: The release says you can do 60 FPS full resolution capture with fixed focus and 10 FPS with AF in between. The VF1 also includes a separate mic input.



I'm not impressed with the sensor, but the AF system sounds neat. If you can use phase detection on DX and FX lenses with an adapter, then the system might be useful. This wasn't the mirrorless game changer I was hoping for.

Yeehaw McKickass
Dec 15, 2004


Pockyless posted:

This wasn't the mirrorless game changer I was hoping for.

I don't get it. It doesn't seem much smaller than a 4/3rds setup, yet features a much smaller sensor. Nor is it less expensive.

Apart from some neat bells and whistles (1200fps like those old Casio's did, phase detect, random amateur picture modes) what is the appeal of this proprietary system? Even if the video codec is done right, the sensor size is a total bottleneck.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007


Yeehaw McKickass posted:

I don't get it. It doesn't seem much smaller than a 4/3rds setup, yet features a much smaller sensor. Nor is it less expensive.

Apart from some neat bells and whistles (1200fps like those old Casio's did, phase detect, random amateur picture modes) what is the appeal of this proprietary system? Even if the video codec is done right, the sensor size is a total bottleneck.

Yeah, really. 2.7X crop? I hope Canon has something better up their sleeve.

Anti-Derivative
Aug 12, 2003
Beware of Squirrel


Augmented Dickey posted:

If you don't mind manual focus, why not just get a legacy 50mm f/1.4? It will give you an even shallower DOF for like 1/4 the price.

it would be something that would probably sit on the camera and come with me many days. A legacy lens will be really big and MF is slow for catching anything that isn't likely to sit still.

spog
Aug 7, 2004

It's your own bloody fault.


Pompous Rhombus posted:

Yeah, really. 2.7X crop? I hope Canon has something better up their sleeve.

I have a really nasty feeling that they may not.

first Pentax and their teeny-tiny sensor...now Nikon.

I don't like this trend.

I don't like noise.

poopinmymouth
Mar 2, 2005

PROUD 2 B AMERICAN (these colors don't run)

Utterly unimpressed, but I was aware as the rumors were really consistent about it being a 2.6 or 2.7 crop.

Dpreview has suggested the huge sensor disparity is to keep from stealing sales from their dslr lineup and lenses. That sort of makes sense, but why introduce a new product if it isn't good enough to tempt customers? I'd rather go with a m4/3, or a true point/shoot than this expensive middle ground.

I predict canon will do something similar. They sell so many rebels, just a ludicrous amount. If they were to put a decent aps-c crop sensor in a small body, it would definitely dilute the sales.

I think the good, large sensored mirrorless cameras will be the realm of Fuji, Samsung, and Sony, then there will be the m4/3 crowd, and canon/pentax/nikon in this silly ultra cropped sensor area.

DoLittle
Jul 26, 2006


spog posted:

I have a really nasty feeling that they may not.

first Pentax and their teeny-tiny sensor...now Nikon.

I don't like this trend.

I don't like noise.

Yeah, it is not much to get excited about, but at least the sensor is 4 times larger than the Pentax Q sensor (and 2.8 times the Canon S90/S95/100 sensors).

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

Canon's new camera system will be a camera the size of a Speed Graphic with a sensor the size of a pinhead.

Beastruction
Feb 15, 2005


HPL posted:

Canon's new camera system will be a camera the size of a Speed Graphic with a sensor the size of a pinhead.

How many pixels can dance on the head of a pin?

King Hotpants
Apr 11, 2005

Clint.
Fucking.
Eastwood.


poopinmymouth posted:

Dpreview has suggested the huge sensor disparity is to keep from stealing sales from their dslr lineup and lenses.

This would make sense if other manufacturers were not already doing this exact thing. I don't get Nikon's thinking here - the J1 costs more than a D3100.

Then again, by any sort of logic, bridge cameras should not exist. And yet they do.

Paragon8
Feb 19, 2007



The point and shoot market will be killed off by camera phones within the next 2-3 years so I'd imagine manufacturers are trying to find a new market to sell to.

I guess time will tell how successful EVILs will be.

ThisQuietReverie
Jul 22, 2004

I am not as I was.


Paragon8 posted:

The point and shoot market will be killed off by camera phones within the next 2-3 years so I'd imagine manufacturers are trying to find a new market to sell to.

Man I hope not. The form of taking pictures with a phone feels all off.

Paragon8
Feb 19, 2007



ThisQuietReverie posted:

Man I hope not. The form of taking pictures with a phone feels all off.

Unfortunately I think the ability to direct upload to Facebook from cell phones makes it overwhelmingly appealing to the layman. Once camera quality is on par with point and shoots there won't be much reason to have a p&s. Apps like instagram are destroying in the market place.

I think trying to build a new kind of market is an interesting strategy for camera manufacturers. No idea how it'll play out though.

AceClown
Sep 11, 2005



Paragon8 posted:

Unfortunately I think the ability to direct upload to Facebook from cell phones makes it overwhelmingly appealing to the layman. Once camera quality is on par with point and shoots there won't be much reason to have a p&s. Apps like instagram are destroying in the market place.

I think trying to build a new kind of market is an interesting strategy for camera manufacturers. No idea how it'll play out though.

It's really odd, I can see the phone cameras killing off the lower end P&S cameras that your average 18-30 has to take on a night out with pals, but the price point of the EVILs put them up there with most entry level dSLR's.

So who are they aimed at? That's what I can't work out.

Shmoogy
Mar 21, 2007


AceClown posted:

It's really odd, I can see the phone cameras killing off the lower end P&S cameras that your average 18-30 has to take on a night out with pals, but the price point of the EVILs put them up there with most entry level dSLR's.

So who are they aimed at? That's what I can't work out.

Neither can they, their current approach seems to be price it high because gently caress you, that's why.

Yeehaw McKickass
Dec 15, 2004


AceClown posted:

It's really odd, I can see the phone cameras killing off the lower end P&S cameras that your average 18-30 has to take on a night out with pals, but the price point of the EVILs put them up there with most entry level dSLR's.

So who are they aimed at? That's what I can't work out.

They are popular overseas, where it's marketed to girls for their size. With a pancake on, it's almost pocketable, and definitely purse-able. Big whoop.

One of their best biggest selling points, the EVF, is usually an add-on that costs half the price of the camera.

So yeah, I don't get it either.

Paragon8
Feb 19, 2007



I can sort of see it appealing to a gadget freak who wants the "best in class" which wouldn't happen with a dSLR. That mentality might mean they'd choose an EVIL over an entry level SLR.

Rock My Socks!
Aug 6, 2009


Pockyless posted:

Nikon announces their mirrorless system: the Nikon 1 series.

http://dpreview.com/news/1109/11092120nikonlaunch.asp

Key features are:
  • 13.2mm x 8.8mm (2.7x crop factor) 10MP sensor
  • New CX mount
  • Two bodies: the consumer focused J1 and the higher end V1. The main difference is the EVF in the V1.
  • "hybrid autofocus" a mix of phase detection and contrast based AF with 73 AF points.
  • Video capture: The release says you can do 60 FPS full resolution capture with fixed focus and 10 FPS with AF in between. The VF1 also includes a separate mic input.



I'm not impressed with the sensor, but the AF system sounds neat. If you can use phase detection on DX and FX lenses with an adapter, then the system might be useful. This wasn't the mirrorless game changer I was hoping for.


With a sensor that tiny, couldn't they at least manage to make a kit lens with a larger aperture? That just seems downright lazy.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007


Yeehaw McKickass posted:

They are popular overseas, where it's marketed to girls for their size. With a pancake on, it's almost pocketable, and definitely purse-able. Big whoop.

One of their best biggest selling points, the EVF, is usually an add-on that costs half the price of the camera.

So yeah, I don't get it either.

AceClown posted:

It's really odd, I can see the phone cameras killing off the lower end P&S cameras that your average 18-30 has to take on a night out with pals, but the price point of the EVILs put them up there with most entry level dSLR's.

So who are they aimed at? That's what I can't work out.

Shmoogy posted:

Neither can they, their current approach seems to be price it high because gently caress you, that's why.

You guys seriously don't see the appeal of an EVIL? I basically haven't touched my 5D for digital since I got my NEX-3; it delivers really similar image quality in a much smaller and more portable package. It can use legacy rangefinder and half-frame glass with inexpensive adapters. It's actually reasonable to bring out with you wherever; in addition to the size, it's quieter and less obtrusive, and doesn't trip the "oh god, he brought a *real* camera" switch in people's brains. You can pick up the last-gen ones for not much more than a high-end point and shoot, and get a nice jump in image quality and ergonomics. I mean, Sony is using the exact same sensors from their DSLR's in the NEX line, including the A77's 24MP beast. To be honest, unless you shoot sports/action or need the absolute best in high ISO performance (and the NEX line is no slouch in that regard) I don't really see the appeal of DSLR's to your average person.

Paragon8 posted:

The point and shoot market will be killed off by camera phones within the next 2-3 years so I'd imagine manufacturers are trying to find a new market to sell to.

I guess time will tell how successful EVILs will be.

I think they've seen the writing on the wall for this for some time now, and I confess I found myself in a similar buying position. I bought a nice smartphone for the first time a month ago (Samsung Galaxy S II), mostly because it has a nice camera and runs Droid, which has a few decent photo apps. I've been considering getting a waterproof camera for taking to the beach/hot springs/hiking/wherever, but the fact that I won't use it in literally any other situation because my phone already takes decent pictures, and I have a DSLR or the NEX for more serious stuff, means I'm still holding off. If EVIL's weren't there to fill the niche of a portable camera that puts out high-quality images, I'd be considering something like an S95/S100 to complement my 5D and Hasselblad, but as it stands there's just no point. My phone is always on me, it takes decent pictures in most situations, and for just a little more size/weight I can be taking DSLR-quality pictures with my NEX kit.

I will say it'd be interesting to see if Nikon's sensor finds its way into a phone, or X50-type compact.

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

Pompous Rhombus posted:

I will say it'd be interesting to see if Nikon's sensor finds its way into a phone, or X50-type compact.

I doubt it. Phones use tiny sensors because they're cheap and only need tiny lenses. A larger sensor would need a larger lens which would add weight and cost, not to mention it would probably be harder on battery life.

Pompous Rhombus
Mar 11, 2007


HPL posted:

I doubt it. Phones use tiny sensors because they're cheap and only need tiny lenses. A larger sensor would need a larger lens which would add weight and cost, not to mention it would probably be harder on battery life.

Yeah, but I think there's a market for people who would take the extra money that the phone costs and spend it on a separate camera. Here in Japan, I saw Docomo has a phone that has a retracting zoom lens, like a digital P&S. I was intrigued and actually meant to look into it, but just sorta forgot and didn't remember until I was walking out of the store the next week with my Droid.

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

Pompous Rhombus posted:

Yeah, but I think there's a market for people who would take the extra money that the phone costs and spend it on a separate camera. Here in Japan, I saw Docomo has a phone that has a retracting zoom lens, like a digital P&S. I was intrigued and actually meant to look into it, but just sorta forgot and didn't remember until I was walking out of the store the next week with my Droid.

I think you'd have better luck building a phone into a camera rather that the other way around. It's nice having phones without camera bumps.

Shmoogy
Mar 21, 2007


Pompous Rhombus posted:

You guys seriously don't see the appeal of an EVIL? I basically haven't touched my 5D for digital since I got my NEX-3; it delivers really similar image quality in a much smaller and more portable package.

I loving adore EVILs. I hate this half assed garbage they're putting out (pentax Q, new Nikon, probably Canons offering too). Do it like the NEX, nice features and APS-C(or MFT) or bust. I don't like that they're trying to squeeze in another sensor size between point & shoots and MFT, it feels like they're purposefully holding back EVIL to try to squeeze more time before point&shoots are obsoleted by phones.

I understand that not everybody has the same needs/wants as me, but those are my rantings.

Yeehaw McKickass
Dec 15, 2004


Pompous Rhombus posted:

You guys seriously don't see the appeal of an EVIL? I basically haven't touched my 5D for digital since I got my NEX-3;

What I didn't put in, which I was going to, was how I believe Sony is doing it right. Maintaining the large sensor in a compact (and with an EVF) is a major selling point to me. It lets me throw on a small lens and effectively use it as a P&S or put on legacy lenses if I want to get experimental.

The only thing holding me back is not wanting to buy into another lens system. Hopefully Canon will deliver, but I'm not holding my breath.

poopinmymouth
Mar 2, 2005

PROUD 2 B AMERICAN (these colors don't run)

Yeah the Nex and X100's make sense, the Pentax Q and Nikon don't. I'll pay the same price as a dslr for the same IQ in a smaller package, but not for this tiny sensor stuff. M4/3 didn't even tempt me, this 2.7 crop stuff deffo won't.

Trambopaline
Jul 25, 2010


I was thinking possibly they could make obscenely tiny pancakes for a sensor that size which might make sense given that you can't really pocket a NEX because you have a bloody great lens at the end, but then again the kit lens doesn't look like a marvel of miniturisation.

Call me old fashioned, but I keep wanting to like EVIL's but I'm addicted to OVF's. Given the amazing market share these things get, I hope Oh well, at least I have my Canonet when I want to scratch that non threatening and fashionable camera itch. (Just utterly incapable of being able to afford a X100 any time soon.)

Pockyless
Jun 5, 2004
With flaming Canadians and such :(

Between the Asia ad campaign, the Nikon and Pantex systems, and the new style of the GF-3 and E-PL3, I'm pretty sure that mirrorless systems are now going to be the new bridge camera as far as a step up from P&S compacts, but not quite a DSLR. These new systems and cameras are almost all going to be for the P&S crowd with more disposable income as opposed to enthusiast photographers.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

HPL
Aug 28, 2002

Worst case scenario.

DPReview has Nikon J1 photo samples up. The ISO 3200 low light photos look surprisingly good, but we'll see what happens when they do raw noise tests, which are usually a more true test of how much is the sensor talking and how much is the in-camera post-processing.

What I do like is that the telephoto lens is quite small compared to its APS-C or even m4/3 equivalent.

HPL fucked around with this message at Sep 22, 2011 around 14:21

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«518 »