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IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Curses! I was considering making one of these just this night. Throw the link for CZ-Custom in the OP, too - they have some seriously neat poo poo.

Everyone else - buy a CZ. You can get a police-surplus 75 for under $350 still, and they aren't in bad shape at all.

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IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



DJExile posted:

I've shot a couple Witnesses and haven't come across the feeding/extracting issues myself. You're right about the DA trigger though.

If you do see a Witness for pretty cheap bucks, they're worth it. They're tack-drivers, and with a little work they run great.

There's a new EAA Witness floating around on the local classifieds for $350 I'm always tempted to buy. I'd be all over it if it was in something neat like 10mm or .38 Super. A 10mm CZ-75 would own.

edit: I wonder if witness .22 kits would fit on a 75?

IuniusBrutus fucked around with this message at 00:54 on May 17, 2011

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



22 Eargesplitten posted:

I was under the impression it is an overbuilt tank until the rollers get worn out. Is that not accurate?

I've heard that that the way the barrel is cut to interact with the action leaves parts of the chamber with less than perfect support, and combined with CZECH SMG SUPER BOMBBAD AMMO catastrophic failures can result.

I don't think I've heard a single KB! story about them yet though, so I suspect much of the dislike of them is due to it not being a JMB design. You can order hardened rollers for about $30, and so long as everything seems to function fine, I seriously doubt there is anything to worry about.

Except the decocker. Probably should just forget that exists.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Juice posted:

I love these guns, but I can't help thinking I won't be happy with how thin the slide is (vertically). Are you bothered by the relative lack of grip space to actuate the slide (say, compared to a 1911)?

The size of the slide is actuly one of my favorite parts about them - it makes it very easy to get a high, agressive grip on the gun without getting your fingers pinched. As for how hard it is to rack it...I have fairly large hands, and I've never had any issue with getting a hold of it.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



operation_paperclip posted:

cz-70 trigger nightmare.

This guy isn't kidding. The most accurate comparison I can think of is a Nagant revolver, except the SA pull on a Nagant is decent.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Monster of the Day posted:

After letting him shoot my CZ 75BD, with and without the kadet kit, I have succeeded in turning one of my friends on to CZs. As he doesn't currently have a full sized pistol (sold a P38 and his kimber in .45 to buy a ring for his fiancee)he is looking into getting something full sized in the 75 line. However, he has also been playing around with the idea of a RAMI. I know most of the full sized and compacts are good guns and that the polymer ones aren't as well received, but I know nothing about the RAMI. Does anyone own or have credible reports of how the gun shoots and feels?

No range reports, but I occassionaly get the urge to buy one, which lasts until I pick it up. It doesn't feel bad at all, but the height/length of CZs never bothered me, just the thickness, and the 2075 is probably as thick as the compacts/full-size. Tell him to just get a compact, which is fun to shoot in its own right, in addition to being a good carry gun (plus, he'll probably have an easier time with holsters).

Saw this on the CZ-USA website, too, for those of us who live in states that value your hearing: http://shop.cz-usa.com/P-00203/Cz-455-Barrel-Set-22lr-Amer-Threaded.aspx

I want a full size CZ75, and am torn between the SP-01 (not shadow or phantom) and a CZ75 SA. I know SP01s are cool, but has anyone shot a SA only CZ? How is the trigger pull?

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Someone in a free state please buy this:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=234015597

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Help me spend my money TFR!

I want need a full-size 9mm pistol. It's mostly between the various CZ types, but I just can't make up my drat mind!

As such, anyone who has shot any of these and can offer their input, please speak up!

Option 1: CZ85 Combat.
+ No firing pin block, so smoother trigger, right?
+ Better sights
+ Drop-free magazine well
- I have heard mixed reports on how much the FPB actually matters.
- More expensive
- Ambi-slide release and safety will just make it more difficult to find holsters
- Have heard reports of slide stop breakages on 85s

Option 2: CZ75B SAO
+ Single action triggers on these are supposedly quite nice
+ Drop-free magazine well
+ Not much more expensive than a standard 75, and I save money on not having to do a SAO conversion later
- Bumps me to ESP only for IDPA

Option 3: CZ75B
+ Cheapest option; used ones pop up frequently, too.
+ Easiest to located holsters and gear for.
- Requires another $80 if I decide I want an SAO gun.

Option 4: CZ75B Compact (steel frame)
+ Technically a compact, but steel frame to help it shoot a little nicer than my PCR
+ I can use all of the same magazines, holsters, and gear as my carry weapon
+ Same controls (essentially) and ergonomics as my carry weapon
- The compact grip fits my hand perfectly, but still a shorter barrel and lower weight, which is what I'm trying to avoid.

Option 5: Hi-Power or clone
+ Trigger beats snot out of CZ trigger
+ Easier and cheaper to do trigger job on, further increasing awesome level
- Either spend $$$$ for a modern one, or buy an older one and have the slide machined for novaks
- Grip isn't quite as comfortable
- ESP only

Thoughts, TFR? Any of the above will get a trigger job and new sights, likely. The CZ also has the advantage of having great (if expensive) .22 kits available, while the Hi-Power has dubious looking Ceiner kits. Also, I know SP01 Shadows rock so hard, but I'll go way over $1000 on one of those, and that's just too much for me - I'll be able to keep my initial purchase under $600 this way, and can break it in a bit, before getting the trigger worked on.

IuniusBrutus fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jun 23, 2011

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



BadgerMan45 posted:

I vote SAO, I converted my 75B to SAO, installed a comp hammer, and yoinked the FPS. The trigger is ridiculously nice now, like 1911 nice. Unfortunately, I think you have to leave the FPS in for IDPA since it came with one. As far as the FPS is concerned, it really only makes sense to pull it if you have a trigger with pretravel adjustment because then you can cut it down to pretty much nothing and have a really short reset. I think the SAO also has the ledge safety and beavertail as well.

Did you do the trigger and hammer yourself? How difficult was it? If I could do either or both on my own, that would save me a couple of bucks and make my choice easier.

Ive pretty much eliminated the 85 as an option - the lack of a FPB isn't worth $125 to me, unless someone chimes in otherwise. I do have another option though, I think: supposedly, late model pre-B have near total parts compatibility with B models. If so, i can buy a non-FSB gun on the cheap, and yet not have to worry about future parts availability problems or finding magazines for cheap.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Drav posted:

Well the Shadow on CZ's website is $1k and I don't see them for sale on any of the usual sites like Bud's. Where exactly do you buy a Shadow anyway?

Check out CZ-Custom - iirc, they are $880 for the standard DA/SA model.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



http://czcustom.com/CZ-75-SP01-SHADOW-PolyCoat-9mm.aspx

FFFFF I want one so bad it hurts. I just can't bear to think of spending all of my gun funds for the next year in one place.

edit: huh. The Shadows have a wider hammer, which makes them incompatible with Kadet kits.

IuniusBrutus fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jun 24, 2011

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Ok, so the local store has a CZ75B in the satin nickle with three magazines in excellent condition for $425. It's on consignment too, so I think I get away with no sales tax...pull the trigger on it or no?

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Only thing that concerns me is that it comes with 2 10 rounds ban mags, which means its likely at least 6 or 7 years old, and thus out of warranty.

This normally wouldn't bother me, but since I'd honestly rather have the black than nickle finish, even after transfer fees, I can get a new 75 for only 70 bucks more.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



I decided to pass on the 75. I was settling for a gun, simply because I could find it in a store. I went to a different gun shop, however, and fondled some other things. Shot a Beretta 92FS, which I actually really liked, and will probably pick one up some day. This shop has a goodly selection of CZs, so I played with some of them. Decided I need to get an alloy RAMI soon, and also discovered that although the extended beaver tail of the SP-series CZs are nice, its not a huge difference for me.

The guy also made me fondle a FNP-9, which was neat, and a Sig P226 Elite which was absolutely amazing (which surprised me, since I don't normally like 226s), but a bit out of my price range. It was all for naught though, since I just spent too much money on this:



It was only a bit cheaper than I could get a new 85 for at the shop or from CZ-Custom, but already has new sights installed, resprung, and the CZ-Custom comp hammer, which essentially made it exactly what I wanted. Fairly low round count <1000 and supposedly has a fantastic trigger. This is my first GB gun purchase, here's to hoping it turns out well!

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Jager posted:

This is the picture that started it all. I think it belongs to Scope.


Shortly afterwards I bought a CZ-75.


I got a great deal on a new kadet kit for $230 and sent it to Scope to thread. The KN Nill wood grips aren't cheap but they feel and look great. It stayed in this configuration for a number of years until I finally got around to seriously looking into getting a suppressor.


While I waited for my stamp from the ATF I sent my CZ to CZ Custom Shop to convert it to SAO (along with target hammer and trigger) and to clean up the action.


Tell me more about your CZ-Custom experience. Namely, how does the SAO conversion feel for you? Also, where did you get your grips from?

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



http://czcustom.com/cz92babypro-tek.aspx

Not sure how I feel about that.

In other news, my 85 Combat kicks total rear end. It'll probably get a box thread soon, but for those of you who have a 75 of some sort, you needed to put the competition hammer in it like yesterday.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Goldfinger posted:

While we're bumping this thread, its new CZ day at my house ! No more .40 for me; I sold my OD Glock 23 and got this with some of the proceeds.





More (and better) pics coming later, but I love this pistol. It feels perfect in hand and the trigger is better than I expected. This P-01 was kept as a safe queen so it is in great condition. The VZ G10 grips feel grippy and I really like the way they look. The original owner threw them in. Got it all including shipping for about $475 (including 2 14rd and 2 10rd magazines).

Ugh I want VZ grips for my 85 so bad. I think the P-01 comes with rubber grips standard? If so, how do the two compare?

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Uncle Caveman posted:

Spent some time dialing in my 527 Carbine's trigger so there is no more overtravel. Between that and the set trigger, I think I am now completely spoiled for other rifles.

What caliber is your carbine in? I have an excuse to buy stuff in 7.62x39 now, and I'm considering a 527 in it.

For those who are interested: http://www.marschalgrips.com/cz75_82-thin/thincz75-82.html

These look pretty nice, and I may order a set for my 85.

IuniusBrutus fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Aug 20, 2011

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Heintron posted:

2.7kg without ammo (18 round mag).

Friend trying it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgpTRiu2-64

That looks like way too much fun. You guys do have a FEW things over the states...


So, people should give me reasons to not buy a vz.61 Skorpion, since CDNN has them for $400 and they are pretty much awesome.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



SixthFloorFreak posted:

Dear TFR and CZ lovers, tell me why I should or shouldn't get a SP-01 Phantom. I'm also considering a Beretta 92. Really, I just want a huge capacity full-size 9mm with a rail...

The only reason IMO to get a 92 over a full size CZ is the availability/price of accessories and magazines. Id stay away from a phantom though - the regular SP-01 isn't much more expensive, and you'll be happier with it.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



How well do the CZ centerfire rifles do on accuracy? I want a bolt gun that I can do target shooting out to 600 yards with, but can I get respectable results from them? I'll be handloading, and I'd prefer .223/7.62 but if those won't do too well than I will go for a larger centerfire caliber.

And to all Americans with vz.58s or VZ2008s: This has been posted here before, but AIM Surplus still has vz.58 magazines for like $11.50 a pop, and they are seriously in fantastic shape. Buy some.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Operating Rod posted:

If a Kadet is built anywhere near as well as my 452 is, it's tits. CZ rimfire is ridiculous in general.

I compared a CZ 75B and a Beretta 92 against each other the other day after screwing around with my Mark III and realizing that not all guns are loving titanic like I was thinking the CZ should have been the other day. I still expected a Beretta romp.

The 92FS was not anywhere near as comfortable as I remembered it and I did a totally unexpected 180 on the CZ. I need one of these in my life. It completed me.

I think I already know the answer to this, but is there any pressing reason to go for a 75B over an SP01 for a gun that probably won't get carried?

I do want to get into IPSC or IDPA when I get my poo poo together but I have my PX4 and a boatload of mags for anything an SP01 wouldn't make weight in.

As you said, SP01s are a little heavy and IIRC are too heavy for IDPA in stock form. If you're not carrying it, the light rail serves no good. On the other hand, it seems that SP-01 holsters are a bit more common than standard CZ holsters. The SP01 has more of a beaver tail, but its not like CZs are prone to hammer bite anyways, nor is it hard to get a high grip on them.

You can probably get a standard 75 for a good bit cheaper than an SP01 though, and you really aren't losing anything.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Operating Rod posted:

I love beavertails and I was kicking around slapping a TLR-1 on it for a nightstand gun, but other than that I was pretty much thinking the same thing.

If you like the beavertail, the CZ75 SA also has one and is only a little more than a standard B. http://czcustom.com/CZ-75B-SA-PolyCoat-9mm.aspx

If you don't mind spending the extra money, get a CZ85 Combat. I have one with a competition hammer, it's totally loving awesome - they come factory without the firing pin block, which makes it much easier to get a nice trigger. Also, some other fun competition oriented features (drop free magazines, extended magazine release, adjustable sights). It also is still cheaper than a SP01. http://czcustom.com/CZ-85-Combat-PolyCoat-9mm.aspx

IuniusBrutus fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Sep 21, 2011

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



ShaneB posted:

Have I mentioned I really like my father-in-law? Like, a lot?



(Terrible cell phone shot features: CZ85, 5 mags, some patches for good measure.) Also it's a non-B with the squared-off trigger guard.

How the hell did you manage to score a CZ85 non-b in that good of shape? Usually all the non-b's have the crapp early enamel finish, but that looks like one with polycoat. Also, it's a transitional (non-b with ring hammer and square guard) so it should take all new production magazines perfectly fine.

No, like seriously, do he get it from an importer? That is about the best CZ i've seen.

Excellent buy. Ditch the grip sleeve though and get the CZ cocobolo grips, or at the very least the factory rubbers.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



ShaneB posted:

So on the CZ85 transitional I just got, I only have the slide stop on one side. On the other side is a little nubbin that sticks out. Did my father-in-law maybe remove it on that side for some reason? I'll ask him about it, just curious now.

Also all my mags are 10 rounders.

The finish is loving immaculate, though, I'll take some glamour shots in good lighting soon.

Huh.

Does it have an ambi safety? Maybe early 85s didn't have ambi slide releases. I don't think he could have just stuck a regular CZ slide stop in there though - the right side of the frame is drilled larger to accommodate the right-side slide stop, and the inside of the frame is milled out more as well. The nub is supposed to stick out though, that's how you take it down.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



ShaneB posted:

Called CZ. They said don't shoot it without the right side slide stop lever in place. Also they said the current model right side slide stop lever requires a frame modification to install, but they do it for free if you send in the frame.

Hopefully my father-in-law knows what happened to the right-side lever, because otherwise I have to drop $35 on a new one and wait on the frame to get there and back.

Don't know if you did anything yet, but don't panic yet.

Try calling CZ-Custom, and ask to speak to one of the smiths there about it. They do really, really drat good work (CZ-USA may as well be affiliated with them) and they might be able to help you out - namely, they might be able to get a pre-b slight stop lever for you.

May or may not work, but worth a try. The lever just pops in, though there is a little retaining spring that might be damaged/missing as well.

Steak Flavored Gum posted:

I just shot my new-to-me CZ 82. It rules. Also, I found out that 9mm Mak bullets from Missouri bullet company are 6 cents each. I am totally reloading this cartridge.

My 82 was my first gun, the first gun I detailed stripped ( ) and the only one I regret getting rid of. If you get a handload that works well with in using lead bullets, be sure to let me the world know so I can buy another and afford to shoot it.

IuniusBrutus fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Oct 29, 2011

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



ShaneB posted:

It's a pre b. The lever is different and they have to mod the frame to make it fit. That's 45 dollars to send it back because you have to ship firearms priority overnight. Then 35 for the lever and 2 months estimated turn around time...

http://czcustom.com/cz85combatslidestop.aspx

The Combat is a non-b variant. If the change in slide stop setup was to accommodate the firing pin block, it's possible this may work for you. Call and ask.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Quickshanks posted:

Shop has a pre-b 75 with 95% enamel finish for $325. is that a deal worth jumping on?

The percetantage finish with that enamel doesn't matter much, since the instant you clean it, it will be down to 0% anyways. Well, not really, but it is very weak and chips off.

The price isn't super amazing or anything - Robinson trading company has them for around that price still IIRC. You're pretty much shaving shipping + transfer fees on it. Also, pay attention to the year - some of the early pre-bs cannot take the kadet kit OR mec-gar CZ75B magazines. You can check the year by looking just above the extractor, two numbers in a circle should be stamped on the slide. The sights kinda suck, too.

That said, CZ75s are amazing pistols, and if it fits your hand good, you'll be pleased with it.

Kommienzuspadt posted:

Frame or slide safety ';

I'd probably pay extra for a slide safety cz75, simply because i'm pretty sure that'd be a one off custom job.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



SadWhaleFamily posted:

Well, that's only if you're not counting the Cold War Commemorative CZ 75.

(You should not count the Cold War Commemorative CZ 75 )

A little background knowledge about Czech firearms design during the cold war turns that model from being really cheesy and tacky to being quite funny, actually.

It wouldn't even be so tacky without the red fill, either. Spur hammers rock on CZs.

IuniusBrutus fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Nov 13, 2011

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



I have access to a CZ75D full size upper, should I buy it and stick it on my PCR so I have some sort of weird CCO long-slide compact?

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



ShaneB posted:

Not a single dealer in SE MI sells the SP-01. I stopped in for a purchase license with the hopes of just randomly finding one locally. I'm about this close || to just getting a SP-01 Shadow from CZ Custom and being set for a long long time.

If you jsut want the standard SP-01 and not the Shadow, I'd bet money that Top Gun in Taylor has one - I've heard the owner is a huge CZ fan, and he typically has a bunch of them in stock.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



My PCR had a gritty, heavy trigger when I first got it too. It's smoothed out nicely though, don't fear too much.

And short-slide? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=267171047

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



miklm posted:

The P-07 is a beautiful swan when handled and shot.



I ocassionaly get the urge to buy a P-07 while they are still cheap, but then I think of how I already have a compact CZ and that money would be much better spent on a SP-01.

Which, incidentally, there is a tactical model on arfcom right now for $500. Good deal.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



SP-01 for $500 out the door. Yay or nay? It's not going to be used for tacticool purposes, so the rail doesn't do me any good...am I better off saving the extra money and buying a standard full-size CZ later?

(glad I found it though...kept me from going to the Glockdark side.)

edit: CZ-Custom sells shadow top ends for $450. I am so tempted to make my PCR some sort of baller CCO Target Model Shadow Custom Carry gun.

IuniusBrutus fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jan 8, 2012

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



SadWhaleFamily posted:

no


yes

Longer story is that the very first production run of CZ-75s will be C&R-eligible in 2025 (when they are 50 years from date of manufacture). Somebody wrote the ATF saying that CZ-82 met certain criteria in its value as a curio or a relic to be classified as such a firearm. I can only speculate that it has something to do with being an issued small arm for the military and police of a nation that, officially, no longer exists.

I want to say that some museum curator (iirc from a government museum of some kind. maybe at one of the military academies?) wrote a letter saying the vz.82 had historical significance.

I'm willing to bet the ATF would approve original short-rail CZ-75s as C&R, but that would be of zero consequence to any of us.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Bear in mind Centurys are no longer produced, so you may have trouble getting service done on them if the need arises.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



New CZ day is the best day:



Traded my AR for it, the light, some ammo, and a nice chunk of cash. AR was a bone stock PSA build. Supposedly only has 200 rounds through it...but the wear on the finish of the slide rails and inside of the slide makes me think otherwise. Tt DOES look similiar to my PCR though, which has ~1500 rounds through it. Maybe CZ just doesn't finish the insides of the slides that well? Does anyone have a SP-01 they could compare?

With the light this thing is holy gently caress heavy. Even without it makes my Beretta seem a bit light. Going to take it out tomorrow and see how it shoots - I don't expect to be disappointed. I'm digging on the "new" grip angle and beaver tail as well - it feels even better than the standard CZ grip. It has the rubber grip pannels on it right now, but I'm probably going to throw a set of the CZ cocobolo checkered grips on it. DA trigger is heavy but smooth, the SA isn't too heavy but it's much easier to notice the grit in it. I'll put a few hundred rounds through it and the nconsider having CZ-Custom do a trigger job. Doubt I'll do a SA conversion on it, though. Already stuck the slide on my PCR to see how it looks as well, and I think I'll have to invest in standard CZ75 shadow upper for my PCR when I get $450 to spend.

It's a little annoying that I had to dump my brand new AR to get it, but it was never shot and not built from anything rare/hard to get, so it'll be easy to replace, and I'll get MUCH more use out of this.

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Bummey posted:

You have chosen well. Can you get a picture of the wear on the insides? I bought my shadow heavily used and it looks fine. I only have an iphone for a camera, but I can take some lovely pictures to compare.

I like the weight! My PCR and PPS are practically weightless to me now. As a side effect it has spoiled me on recoil because I feel it a lot more in those two now.

http://i.imgur.com/MZzfN.jpg

Most of the finish is gone from the slide rails and where the locking lugs engage. Not sure if thats normal on these. There is also a pink tint to some of the metal on the barrel and frame, not sure if that's normal discoloration from CLP or what? In any case, I shot 50 rounds through it today and recoil is minimal, accuracy is amazing, and I shoot it every bit as good as my PCR, which was worrying me. I'm pretty much hooked.

Also, I know there has to be somewhere here with a P-07...I've seen a couple dirt cheap used ones lately. How are they?

IuniusBrutus fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Jan 16, 2012

IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



tawm posted:

Went to a gun show this weekend, and for once they had EXACTLY what I wanted:


I'm stoked to be getting my CCW with the 82, which I paid about $50 too much for (assuming I had bought one on AIM or J&G and shipped/FFLed), but hey, it came with two extra mags. The P-01 was $525 brand new, traded my TZ-75 in for it (only got $250 for it, but I'm not too upset with that). I've been wanting a P-01 for the longest time, and I'm not disappointed. The guys I went to the range with who were only aware of .40 Rugers, .45 Springfields, and "1911s" suddenly all wanted a 9mm pistol made by slavs.

Why not CCW with the P-01? I carry my PCR, and it's a little on the thick side, but otherwise carries well.

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IuniusBrutus
Jul 24, 2010



Someone convince me that the thin aluminum CZ grips are worth $85. I have the cocobolo grips on my PCR right now, and while they are classy, don't help the gun be less fat, and I'd like to make it a bit more comfortable for carry.

http://czcustom.com/CZ_75-CZ_85-Full-Size-Thin-Coco-Bolo-Full-Checker.aspx These ARE going on my SP-01 though, almost entirely because of Heintron's shadow. Probably going to order a new mainspring, SA trigger, and guide rod as well.


edit: Nevermind. Completely forgot Marschal had these now...going to order a set as soon as I figure out what I want (not like it matters how soon I get to it. Lead times suck ). http://www.marschalgrips.com/cz75_82-thin/thincz75-82.html#cz75full

IuniusBrutus fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Jan 21, 2012

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