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Paradox Personified
Mar 15, 2010

SoroScrew


Bieeardo posted:

Someone on Slashdot did some math when the astroturf rolled out there, and apparently figured out that the amount of money spent on electricity for those machines handily outstrips the value of any coinage they 'mine'.
I thought about that on the page that they preach using your GPU instead of CPU do do all of this.
I'd kill for someone to do the math and smack them all upside the head with it.

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ChubbyEmoBabe
Sep 6, 2003

-=|NMN|=-


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5syX-4l51Oc

There's a lesson somewhere here.

quote:

Last Price: 7.011 High:7.45 Low: 6.6108

Well that seems like a rock solid currency. How can I convert my savings?

Seriously though, this does have it's uses and the best ones are all illegal. I can't believe people are actually "investing" in this. The coins even look like scrooges money bin coins.

infinity2005
Apr 12, 2005
y halo thar lol

So how do you launder money with this?

Edit: actually i should point out i'm not serious or i'll probably get banned. The russian mafia thing is interesting though.

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007

VOTE
FOR
PEDRO


ChubbyEmoBabe posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5syX-4l51Oc

There's a lesson somewhere here.


Well that seems like a rock solid currency. How can I convert my savings?

Seriously though, this does have it's uses and the best ones are all illegal. I can't believe people are actually "investing" in this. The coins even look like scrooges money bin coins.

Its better if you look back a bit more further back:


ROCK SOLID CURRENCY HERE FOLKS
(note most of those jaggies on the line are where its value drops by 20% or more overnight or over a weekend)

RolandTower
Nov 19, 2003

Guns n' Roses n' Deus Ex Machina

Pillbug

Hahaha, awesome, it's got all the inflexibility and disassociation from useful economic output that makes the gold standard a bad idea, only without the potential security against hyperinflation.

take my life... please!
May 31, 2006

We make everything you need and you need everything we make.

infinity2005 posted:

So how do you launder money with this?

Edit: actually i should point out i'm not serious or i'll probably get banned. The russian mafia thing is interesting though.

1. Buy BitCoins with REALMONEY®
2. Transfer BitCoins to Someone Else
3. Someone Else sells out the BitCoins for REALMONEY®

Of course, time is of the essence, because the value of those bitcoins may drop overnight. Then again, they could grow as well. It's like trading stocks, I guess. I dunno, I got a C in Economics.

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007

VOTE
FOR
PEDRO


infinity2005 posted:

So how do you launder money with this?

Edit: actually i should point out i'm not serious or i'll probably get banned. The russian mafia thing is interesting though.

I'd imagine same way they were doing it with flooz, Buying a ton of fake internet money, then either selling the fake net money back at a different site or using it to buy goods with resale value from one of the few places that accept it as payment and selling them on.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance.



Canned Ferret

ReverendFaux posted:

1. Buy BitCoins with REALMONEY®
2. Transfer BitCoins to Someone Else
3. Someone Else sells out the BitCoins for REALMONEY®

Of course, time is of the essence, because the value of those bitcoins may drop overnight. Then again, they could grow as well. It's like trading stocks, I guess. I dunno, I got a C in Economics.

I got a C in Economics and I still know enough that this poo poo is bullshit.

ChubbyEmoBabe
Sep 6, 2003

-=|NMN|=-


Drone_Fragger posted:

Its better if you look back a bit more further back:


ROCK SOLID CURRENCY HERE FOLKS
(note most of those jaggies on the line are where its value drops by 20% or more overnight or over a weekend)

Hah, ohh man I thought the intraday was horrific. People are going to lose their asses off on this.

Why don't I even think of a way to bilk people out of their money!

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007

VOTE
FOR
PEDRO


Vincent Van Goatse posted:

I got a C in Economics and I still know enough that this poo poo is bullshit.

again I'm gonna point to flooz, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooz.com, which the russian mafia did legitimately use to launder money and did it in exactly the same way.

take my life... please!
May 31, 2006

We make everything you need and you need everything we make.

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

I got a C in Economics and I still know enough that this poo poo is bullshit.

What are you expecting to happen with this? I really don't know what to make out of it, but I think it could be similar to the WoW Gold market (Paying cash for in-game gold to be goofy virtual poo poo). I think it's just a goofy virtual-poo poo market with goofy virtual-cash.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance.



Canned Ferret

Drone_Fragger posted:

again I'm gonna point to flooz, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooz.com, which the russian mafia did legitimately use to launder money and did it in exactly the same way.

And since I am not the Russian mafia, there's no loving way I could make bank off this bullshit.

ReverendFaux posted:

What are you expecting to happen with this? I really don't know what to make out of it, but I think it could be similar to the WoW Gold market (Paying cash for in-game gold to be goofy virtual poo poo). I think it's just a goofy virtual-poo poo market with goofy virtual-cash.

Except it won't, because WoW Gold has actual value attached to it (not having to grind in an MMORPG). This doesn't even stagger that low.

Videodrome
Apr 5, 2003

All hail the new flesh!

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that the currency is created with out either a tangible substance backing it or an exchange of goods/services/labor.

It also sounds like the whole economy has a pre-planned, built-in aristocracy. You can create coins simply by having an expensive, powerful computer. If there is actually a finite number of these coins, then there is a zero-sum game and the people with the most powerful computers literally create wealth and have an absurd level of control over the exchange rates. The value of a coin is literally different for someone with the infrastructure to create these coins than it is for a merchant or consumer attempting to engage in an equitable exchange of goods/services/labor.

Nathilus
Apr 4, 2002

I alone can see through the media bias.

I'm also stupid on a scale that can only be measured in Reddits.

Versus Boredom posted:

I'll take one human liver and six kilos of cocaine please. You accept BitCoin right?

If this actually takes off it will be a great currency to make those kinds of transactions with. Dollars are tracked in a way bitcoins are not.

Overall it's an interesting thought experiment but I doubt it'll ever take off. It's not going to become a viable and robust currency with a few thousand adopters having a few hundred bucks each in it. Their decision not to manage it at all and just let it take it's natural course doesn't inspire confidence either. I know what happens to currencies naturally. They fail. It's funny they say, "It CANT FAIL unless people stop using it!" Yeah, that is one of the big ways currencies go down.

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007

VOTE
FOR
PEDRO


Vincent Van Goatse posted:

And since I am not the Russian mafia, there's no loving way I could make bank off this bullshit.

Well yeah since I kinda assumed you weren't money laundering?

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance.



Canned Ferret

Drone_Fragger posted:

Well yeah since I kinda assumed you weren't money laundering?

Ah see I thought you were saying that because of Russian money laundering someone made money off of this poo poo so it wasn't 100.00% bullshit. My apologies.

take my life... please!
May 31, 2006

We make everything you need and you need everything we make.

Videodrome posted:

If there is actually a finite number of these coins, then there is a zero-sum game and the people with the most powerful computers literally create wealth and have an absurd level of control over the exchange rates. The value of a coin is literally different for someone with the infrastructure to create these coins than it is for a merchant or consumer attempting to engage in an equitable exchange of goods/services/labor.

Only 21 Million coins are to be released through 2040.

I don't know if more are to be made available after that (if it goes for that long), but it is definitely finite.

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance.



Canned Ferret

ReverendFaux posted:

Only 21 Million coins are to be released through 2040.

So loving what?

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

I have a mid-high end desktop system that wasn't too pricey (i7 processor, 4GB RAM, etc)...what would my bitcoin production rate be? What about on my super slow old netbook?

take my life... please!
May 31, 2006

We make everything you need and you need everything we make.

Vincent Van Goatse posted:

So loving what?

It's a response to a question, chill the gently caress out. There's plenty of non-related conversations you could probably enjoy in another thread.

artard
Sep 11, 2001


As a mathematician I think the idea of the BitCoin is brilliant... for the dude who created them. I was reading some article which says he possesses 1/3 of the bitcoins in existence currently which means he will make millions if he correctly anticipates the bubble/crash and offloads them all. Everything about the BitCoin seems designed to give people the idea it carries some sort of legitimacy and the cryptocurrency method of distributing the coins does a great job of making sure it doesn't crash too soon while giving BitCoin users a (false) feeling of scarcity. Basically the dude had a brilliant idea to get himself rich while simultaneously gaining internet/academic credibility and if he doesn't lose his rear end by refusing to offload before the crash he will cash in on it bigtime.

Videodrome
Apr 5, 2003

All hail the new flesh!

ReverendFaux posted:

Only 21 Million coins are to be released through 2040.

I don't know if more are to be made available after that (if it goes for that long), but it is definitely finite.

Right, so the handful of people with computers powerful enough to create the coins have an obvious incentive to horde them, making the few they allow into circulation more "valuable". They don't even have to invest to make their wealth more valuable. Lack of circulation alone makes them "richer".

take my life... please!
May 31, 2006

We make everything you need and you need everything we make.

bewbies posted:

I have a mid-high end desktop system that wasn't too pricey (i7 processor, 4GB RAM, etc)...what would my bitcoin production rate be? What about on my super slow old netbook?

I don't know if you would mine enough to cover your power bill. In fact, at the crazy economy it seems to have, the people who start mining now would never break even.

Setzer Gabbiani
Oct 13, 2004



If buying drugs on Tor or trading for Etsy-grade I <3 BitCoin clothing and trinkets sounds appealing, Folding@coin is for you

take my life... please!
May 31, 2006

We make everything you need and you need everything we make.

Videodrome posted:

Right, so the handful of people with computers powerful enough to create the coins have an obvious incentive to horde them, making the few they allow into circulation more "valuable". They don't even have to invest to make their wealth more valuable. Lack of circulation alone makes them "richer".

When hoarding pays off. If only cats were a currency.

Stoatbringer
Sep 15, 2004

naw, you love it
you little ho-bot


I'm generating a coin right now, somehow. Soon I'll be rich and if you're lucky I'll wave to you from my huge yacht.

ChubbyEmoBabe
Sep 6, 2003

-=|NMN|=-


Nathilus posted:

... "It CANT FAIL unless people stop using it!" ...

Conair Pro Black Bird Professional 2000W Hair Dryer $39.95/BC00.000000012-BC00.000002

Videodrome
Apr 5, 2003

All hail the new flesh!

Stoatbringer posted:

I'm generating a coin right now, somehow. Soon I'll be rich and if you're lucky I'll wave to you from my huge yacht.

artard
Sep 11, 2001


artard posted:

As a mathematician I think the idea of the BitCoin is brilliant... for the dude who created them. I was reading some article which says he possesses 1/3 of the bitcoins in existence currently which means he will make millions if he correctly anticipates the bubble/crash and offloads them all. Everything about the BitCoin seems designed to give people the idea it carries some sort of legitimacy and the cryptocurrency method of distributing the coins does a great job of making sure it doesn't crash too soon while giving BitCoin users a (false) feeling of scarcity. Basically the dude had a brilliant idea to get himself rich while simultaneously gaining internet/academic credibility and if he doesn't lose his rear end by refusing to offload before the crash he will cash in on it bigtime.

Basically to reiterate my own point I think that Satoshi Nakamoto (the creator of BitCoin) is a genius because he basically found a way to invent his own monopoly money and created a distribution framework that ensures he gets a huge share of the currency (by being the earliest adopter). All while getting a community behind it so they are all rabidly mining/buying up coins that pumps up the value so the early adopters can cash in and make shitloads of money while the hype machine leads to the inevitable bubble/bust. I think it's really quite awesome and wish I'd thought of it first.

Frank Serpico
Aug 8, 2005

Oh man, it's total gridlock!!

Videodrome posted:



Ill give you 21 million bitcoins for that!
(but you will have to wait until 2040 since that many wont exist until then)

winvirus
Jan 23, 2009

You only delay the inevitable. All of this island will soon belong to me.



What about shitcoins? Has anyone said shitcoins yet? Am I original yet?

Videodrome
Apr 5, 2003

All hail the new flesh!

Julius Milkwhite posted:

Ill give you 21 million bitcoins for that!
(but you will have to wait until 2040 since that many wont exist until then)

It is still worth more than all the BitCoins in existence because actually labor was required to create it.

It doesn't sound like anyone is actually interested in this psuedo-currency having any connection to an exchange of time/labor.

take my life... please!
May 31, 2006

We make everything you need and you need everything we make.

Videodrome posted:

It is still worth more than all the BitCoins in existence because actually labor was required to create it.

It doesn't sound like anyone is actually interested in this psuedo-currency having any connection to an exchange of time/labor.

Minus the the handful cyberpunk miners and tin-foil-hat wearing lunatics and Glenn Beck.

ChubbyEmoBabe
Sep 6, 2003

-=|NMN|=-


ReverendFaux posted:

I don't know if you would mine enough to cover your power bill. In fact, at the crazy economy it seems to have, the people who start mining now would never break even.

As a competing currency it needs to be flexible. If every coin was "created" it would be 120-140million USD today. In the scheme of currencies, especially global, that's nothing. As people save their coins (horde) the remove more and more from circulation causing the price to go up.

Look what happened to oil and housing and they are backed by tangible assets.

RobattoJesus
Aug 13, 2002



winvirus posted:

What about shitcoins? Has anyone said shitcoins yet? Am I original yet?

You could probably recreate this currency with horseshit. People with horses "mine" the currency and then trade it for services and whatnot, plus horseshit can only be sold once, and instead of being digitally "secure", horseshit is theft proof because who the gently caress steals horseshit?

Nathilus
Apr 4, 2002

I alone can see through the media bias.

I'm also stupid on a scale that can only be measured in Reddits.

artard posted:

Basically to reiterate my own point I think that Satoshi Nakamoto (the creator of BitCoin) is a genius because he basically found a way to invent his own monopoly money and created a distribution framework that ensures he gets a huge share of the currency (by being the earliest adopter). All while getting a community behind it so they are all rabidly mining/buying up coins that pumps up the value so the early adopters can cash in and make shitloads of money while the hype machine leads to the inevitable bubble/bust. I think it's really quite awesome and wish I'd thought of it first.

Suckers have short memories.

JoeyVapes
Feb 8, 2011

by Y Kant Ozma Post


If I use BitCoins to purchase Linden Dollars, will the universe collapse?

ChubbyEmoBabe
Sep 6, 2003

-=|NMN|=-


I do like that guy in the other thread who thinks these are a good hedge for the dollar.

nimh
Sep 18, 2004

by FactsAreUseless


winvirus posted:

What about shitcoins? Has anyone said shitcoins yet? Am I original yet?

Sorry, i typed it into a youtube comment 14 minutes ago. Oh no you are first. Its not plural.

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Stoatbringer
Sep 15, 2004

naw, you love it
you little ho-bot


nimh posted:

Sorry, i typed it into a youtube comment 14 minutes ago.

I think we could mine youtube comments for shitcoins.

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