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JoeyVapes posted:If I use BitCoins to purchase Linden Dollars, will the universe collapse? You were probably joking, but that is actually possible
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May 23, 2011 21:10
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Drone_Fragger posted:I'd imagine same way they were doing it with flooz, Buying a ton of fake internet money, then either selling the fake net money back at a different site or using it to buy goods with resale value from one of the few places that accept it as payment and selling them on. If you're using stolen credit cards, yes, but more probably it's being used to hide money sources from the government. A more scrupulous criminal will pay taxes on his ill gotten money. If you get some money selling drugs or doing whatever it is gangsters do for money these days, you can just declare it as profits from your not very profitable but still existent bitcoin mining and speculation operation, and since that activity is utterly untraceable nobody could prove in court that you weren't doing that. You'd be giving some of it up to the government, but the IRS would not be trying to figure out why you don't have a job but can afford 2 escalades. They get their cut and would leave you alone. The mafia used to do this with porno theaters years ago, if I remember correctly, since everyone paid cash and there's not any actual physical object that you can trace after the sale. Gangsters would report X amount of ticket sales even though X/10 people actually bought tickets, the rest of the 9X/10 dollars came from illegal activity. Also people wouldn't own up to having been to a porno theatre when questioned so I don't remember how they got caught or why they stopped doing it. Maybe VHS tapes killed it, this was in the 70s I think.
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May 23, 2011 21:10
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kazmeyer posted:There's a thread in BFC full of people making fun of these guys and their hilarious belief that their internet nerd money is going to survive the coming economic apocalypse. Bitcoins are dumb as hell, sure, but the opinions of those reaping the benefits of the current broken system and students of the Science of Economics (with it's rich history of testability and predictive power) certainly isn't one of them.
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May 23, 2011 21:11
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I'm just waiting for the day I can buy a whore with bitcoins. Thats how you'll know when they're considered real money. When you can buy a bj and maybe a rimjob for bitcoins.
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May 23, 2011 21:12
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Bitcoins would be great for buying illegal poo poo with because it's untraceable unless you're buying it from an undercover. Lasers, weapons, drugs, cool electronic poo poo, the list goes on and on.Astroman posted:If it's being used in illegal transactions this alone tells me world govts will take it down. There's no way they'll allow something used by drug cartels and mafia groups to run unimpeded. I'm sure someone will cry out..."THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T TAKE DOWN OUR OPEN SOURCE COINS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!", but everyone said you could never stop P2P stuff like Napster and the government does, one at a time. It still goes on, but nowhere near the way it did with Napster, Limewire, Kazaa, etc. Yes, because as we all know, the government has been hugely successful in taking down a de-centralized P2P system like BitTorrent...  I just made $120 selling 15 Bitcoins I generated in a week with my AMD graphics cards so... this magic Internet money is pretty great. For now. It's obviously not going to last forever. I do feel pretty  right now being a PC gamer and already having high-end graphics hardware.
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May 23, 2011 21:13
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Bash Ironfist posted:I'm just waiting for the day I can buy a whore with bitcoins. Thats how you'll know when they're considered real money. When you can buy a bj and maybe a rimjob for bitcoins. Titcoins.
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May 23, 2011 21:13
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^^ bastardBash Ironfist posted:I'm just waiting for the day I can buy a whore with bitcoins. Thats how you'll know when they're considered real money. When you can buy a bj and maybe a rimjob for bitcoins. Titcoins
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May 23, 2011 21:13
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Setzer Gabbiani posted:If buying drugs on Tor or trading for Etsy-grade I <3 BitCoin clothing and trinkets sounds appealing, Folding@coin is for you Bitcoins literally dropped 30% of their value overnight when the drug trafficking headquarters went down for the weekend a few weeks ago. They regained that value when it came back up.
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May 23, 2011 21:15
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 But with bits!
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May 23, 2011 21:18
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Cosmik Debris posted:...Also people wouldn't own up to having been to a porno theatre when questioned so I don't remember how they got caught or why they stopped doing it. Maybe VHS tapes killed it, this was in the 70s I think. Like most enterprises like that; eventually greed and complacency. The IRS is a lot better and crunching the numbers on the books than people are at fudging them.
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May 23, 2011 21:21
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Sly Pistachio posted:I just made $120 selling 15 Bitcoins I generated in a week with my AMD graphics cards so... this magic Internet money is pretty great. For now. It's obviously not going to last forever. I do feel pretty Congratulations, you are a grifter. I know it seems OK because you took money from other greedy FYGM'ers who are also looking for free money, but you are still part of the problem.
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May 23, 2011 21:23
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winvirus posted:What about shitcoins? Has anyone said shitcoins yet? Am I original yet? Asspennies. Upright Citizens Brigade invented them.
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May 23, 2011 21:24
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Hey grifting is a noble and ancient profession.
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May 23, 2011 21:25
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Curiously, I had a discussion with some... I'm not sure what to call him, in America he would be a Tea Tarty Loon, but in Sweden? I'm not sure we have a word for them yet. Anyhow, he (obviously) went on at length about how "real" currencies are fiat, doomed to fail, fascist, yada yada yada, and suggested that everyone should be allowed to use their own currencies and that the free market should sort out the winners. Somehow he failed to realize that this was already perfectly legal and that corporations do it all the time with "store credit". I failed to convince him that the only thing standing between him and his own personal currency was that no-one would bother to actually trade in it, making it moot. I guess the BitCoin people tried to sidestep that little bump in the road with the mining scheme. And yes it's, obviously a scheme, most likely a pyramid scheme (look it up), because the mining clearly removes the entire point of a currency: to operate as a way to directly translate labor to value and avoid the barter system. Also note how the early adopters control a vast amount of the currency both by being in the game earlier, getting a bigger share from the get-go and mining for longer, but more importantly, buying BitCoin when it's cheap and selling when the prices go up. Until the inevitable collapse, that is.
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May 23, 2011 21:25
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This is uncomfortably similar to E-gold, perhaps worse. In the late 90s one of my former co-workers (who was really gifted programmer, but pretty sleazy) found some security exploit in the e-gold payment system of some website and stole the equivalent of 600$ from some random people (some CGI script that would leak PLAINTEXT user passwords when passed some weird string of single-quotes and backticks). I was more disgusted than impressed by the heist, but he had some weird rationalization that "it was all fake money anyway, right?" NO, if it was fake you wouldn't be paying rent with it. Edit: He never got caught...
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May 23, 2011 21:27
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Also, don't believe you are untraceable with this. A transaction starts when you send info about that transaction into the p2p network, so if someone monitors large parts of the network they can in theory find out you were the origin of that info. Of course, you could just use Tor or some of the mixer services to hide yourself.
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May 23, 2011 21:28
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ymgve posted:Also, don't believe you are untraceable with this. A transaction starts when you send info about that transaction into the p2p network, so if someone monitors large parts of the network they can in theory find out you were the origin of that info. It's like the real debate here is which side of this scam is more flawed; the economics or the privacy/cryptography.
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May 23, 2011 21:32
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Stroh M.D. posted:He...suggested that everyone should be allowed to use their own currencies and that the free market should sort out the winners. You should tell him why we used to do this and how it sucked and we got rid of it wikipedia posted:This depreciation of colonial currency was harmful to creditors in Great Britain when colonists paid their debts with money that had lost value. Adam Smith criticized colonial bills of credit in his famed 1776 work The Wealth of Nations. According to Smith, the inflationary nature of the currency was a "violent injustice" to the creditor; "a scheme of fraudulent debtors to cheat their creditors" (Book II, Chapter II). As a result, the British Parliament passed several Currency Acts to regulate the paper money issued by the colonies. The Currency Act of 1751 restricted the emission of paper money in New England. It allowed the existing bills to be used as legal tender for public debts (i.e. paying taxes), but disallowed their use for private debts (e.g. for paying merchants).[7]
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May 23, 2011 21:33
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ymgve posted:Also, don't believe you are untraceable with this. A transaction starts when you send info about that transaction into the p2p network, so if someone monitors large parts of the network they can in theory find out you were the origin of that info. The programs (wallet/generator) are configurable for proxies, and the bulk of communication is done in IRC and browsers, so anonymity is easily made possible. But I don't see any kind of larger business accepting BitCoins without account signups and the like. They would eventually find you.
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May 23, 2011 21:33
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So is it 100 asspennies to a Buttcoin? Edit: and who is on the face of the Buttcoin? Eddie Murphy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4le6Zr86ojs
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May 23, 2011 21:36
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Videodrome posted:It's like the real debate here is which side of this scam is more flawed; the economics or the privacy/cryptography. Oh definately the economics. A 10 year old could understand why Bitcoins aren't valuable: They cannot be used to buy things. I have no doubt the other side is just as flawed, only in a more complex way.
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May 23, 2011 21:36
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ReverendFaux posted:The programs (wallet/generator) are configurable for proxies, and the bulk of communication is done in IRC and browsers, so anonymity is easily made possible. But I don't see any kind of larger business accepting BitCoins without account signups and the like. They would eventually find you. Does it work anything like P2P music, where all you have is an IP Address? Because if you can just connect to a starbucks wifi network for your transactions they will trace it back to a starbucks and then what? I'm guessing it's not that simple or someone much smarter than me would already be doing it.
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May 23, 2011 21:36
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ReverendFaux posted:The programs (wallet/generator) are configurable for proxies, and the bulk of communication is done in IRC and browsers, so anonymity is easily made possible. But I don't see any kind of larger business accepting BitCoins without account signups and the like. They would eventually find you. Jesus dude, are you some sort of gimmick? It's like you're just posting their FAQ here for us to refute line by line. "Sure my money may lose virtually all value overnight....but it's configurable for proxies!!!!"
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May 23, 2011 21:36
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ymgve posted:Of course, you could just use Tor or some of the mixer services to hide yourself. The only way to get close to privacy is to do something like Osama bin Laden did, write encrypted messages offsite and then have couriers travel to different locations and send different parts of different messages to random accounts at different times.
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May 23, 2011 21:37
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I think GBS has some sort of meta-consciousness that can hear my thoughts. I was just bitching about how stupid this Bitcoin nonsense is. What happened that this garbage for idiots is suddenly hot news? I assume some Prominent Blogger posted a Prominent Blog Post about it and it spread from there. It occurs to me that if, say, a guy who was gaming this system for short-term gain before it fails (which is basically all it's good for) wanted to step up his e-market-bubble operation, it would benefit him to virally market this and get a new/bigger crop of suckers.
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May 23, 2011 21:38
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This does not sound like a good idea. At all.
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May 23, 2011 21:38
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Here's my plan. Bitcoins -> Eve Isk -> Linden Dollars -> WOW gold -> Western Union Nigeriabux -> Paypal -> $COLD $HARD $CASH The science seems pretty solid. Anyone want to invest?
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May 23, 2011 21:39
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A currency based on wasting electricity is a great idea. The best part of this is how every single advantage this has over real money is only useful to you if you want to commit crimes.
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May 23, 2011 21:39
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OwlBot 2000 posted:... Apparently that had it's flaws.
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May 23, 2011 21:39
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toby posted:I think GBS has some sort of meta-consciousness that can hear my thoughts. I was just bitching about how stupid this Bitcoin nonsense is. BitCoin has been in lots of blogs and articles lately and I think it's reached the critical mass for hype and we will see the value of the BitCoin skyrocket and crash within a month
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May 23, 2011 21:39
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Videodrome posted:It's like the real debate here is which side of this scam is more flawed; the economics or the privacy/cryptography. The cryptography is actually pretty secure, from what I've seen. Of course, it doesn't matter how good your crypto is when a programming bug enables someone to generate 92 billion coins out of thin air.
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May 23, 2011 21:39
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ymgve posted:The cryptography is actually pretty secure, from what I've seen. Of course, it doesn't matter how good your crypto is when a programming bug enables someone to generate 92 billion coins out of thin air. Bank Error in Your Favor Collect
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May 23, 2011 21:41
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ymgve posted:The cryptography is actually pretty secure, from what I've seen. Of course, it doesn't matter how good your crypto is when a programming bug enables someone to generate 92 billion coins out of thin air. Huh I bet nobody ever foresaw something like that happening
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May 23, 2011 21:42
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artard posted:BitCoin has been in lots of blogs and articles lately and I think it's reached the critical mass for hype and we will see the value of the BitCoin skyrocket and crash within a month Against: Everyone who knows what a 6+ year old knows about economics. For: The people who brought the story, and or have the "currency". We'll see who the winners are artard, we'll see. ymgve posted:The cryptography is actually pretty secure, from what I've seen. Of course, it doesn't matter how good your crypto is when a programming bug enables someone to generate 92 billion coins out of thin air. Phht Obama printed 4 trillion dollars
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May 23, 2011 21:42
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Cosmik Debris posted:Does it work anything like P2P music, where all you have is an IP Address? Because if you can just connect to a starbucks wifi network for your transactions they will trace it back to a starbucks and then what? I really don't know about the magic of networks. As long as you're not pissing off Intellectual Property Holders, I don't see this hitting the "spotlight" at all. Once people claim that BitCoin is used in pirating movies or music, I'm sure BitCoin users will suffer like modern BitTorrent users are now. Random lawsuits and subpoenas will be spread out to the masses, at the cost of our tax dollars, to try and "crack down" on this black-market internet money. Until today, I had never heard of Flooz, and InternetCash. I really thought this was something entirely new, but it's flaws seem very close to these older cash schemes. Schemes where people were tracked down. Even though BitTorrent isn't illegal, it is used for illegal gains. BitCoin will eventually be demonized the same way, and I don't know what the negative press would do to it's economy. I don't doubt we'll hear about this on Fox News or CNBC by the end of the year.
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May 23, 2011 21:45
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Cosmik Debris posted:You should tell him why we used to do this and how it sucked and we got rid of it Believe me, I tried. I used both historical examples and hypotheticals. But as a true believer, he argued that in the modern day - somehow thanks to computers - people would have such an easy time keeping track of all the currencies that they would naturally favour the stable ones. Eventually, I isolated his belief to be that if it was just legal to create your own currency, people would immediately jump to the opportunity and outsmart the official currencies, who he argued the governments of the world "forced" upon us. The most logical counter-argument at that point was to point out that it already is perfectly legal (at least in Sweden) and that the only hurdle is that no-one is interested in the slightest.
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May 23, 2011 21:48
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^^^ I feel for you man. It's hard to stand people like that. Stuff like this falls under the "if it's too good to be true it probably is category" - that is to say even knowing dick about economics prevents me from getting anywhere near this.
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May 23, 2011 21:49
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ChubbyEmoBabe posted:Apparently that had it's flaws. Yep, security is like a chain: it's only as strong as it's weakest link, which is almost always human stupidity or greed. One of the couriers was either caught or betrayed by someone who knew someone. Reminds me a story a security consultant was telling me about. Some bank had the most advanced security system on the market (for the 80s). Reinforced doors, decoy vaults, multiple alarm systems, security cameras, armed guards, etc. etc. Several guys with briefcases come up, and ask the two guards how much money they make per year. It was apparently around 35,000$ each, so the the visitors hand them 100,000$ each and tell them to unlock the doors and turn off the alarms. The thieves go in, grab a couple of million dollars, and walk out after paying the guards some further hush money. I don't know if this was a true story or not [probably not], but it certainly illustrates the point well enough.
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May 23, 2011 21:50
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ChubbyEmoBabe posted:Against: Everyone who knows what a 6+ year old knows about economics. You forgot the other For: People who really believe there is a "trick" to making money without labor. i.e. anyone who has ever involved themselves in pyramid schemes or MLM. Unfortunately, this is a HUGE number of people.
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May 23, 2011 21:50
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Civil posted:Here's my plan. What is the current exchange-rate for my Mesos
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May 23, 2011 21:52
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