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Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Aralan posted:

I tried. It looked like it was going to end up taking so long to get the requisite amount of bitcoins that I really would've spent more on electricity for "mining" than the slim jims were worth. I think it would've been like a week and a half of generating before I had enough

Which means it is still perfectly viable as long as you can get electricity for free. If you can get your mom or your school or whatever to pay for the electricity, then you can get slim jims for free.

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Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

raezr posted:

Am I able to pay for food and gas with these yet?

Yes, slim jims count as both.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Alamo posted:

Alright. So it sounds like all these people "mining" for coins are performing a critical hashing function that maintains this economy, and their reward for this hashing is the coin that they may or may not receive.

Are these people expected to continue maintaining this economy (and their extremely costly computer farms and electricity bills) after all of the coins have been produced?

It seems like this economy has literally no intention of lasting more than a few years, or just long enough for the founders to cash out.

You are obviously a shill for Big Money. Go back to your masters at the mint and tell them we don't need their worthless paper or coinage anymore. We have bits now.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

UrbanFarmer posted:

How can BTC NOT be at critical mass at this point? They're hitting major news sources, people are buying computer rigs just to mine, Google Trends are off the chart, it's being talked about all over the place, the computing power of the network is going off the charts, and it is a GLOBAL phenomenon.

You know what else hit major news sources?
    Remember the invention that will change the world: the segway? A revolution in human transportation. Boy, I sure love riding around on my segway. No, wait, I don't. I've never even seen one.

    Second Life, the virtual world where we can have virtual meeting rooms, shops and classrooms with people all over the world. Or simulate sex with anthropomorphic animals and make flying dongs.

    Electric cars! Okay, these are making a come back, but the buzz back when the EV1 was launched back in 1996 never came to much of anything.

Buzz doesn't guarantee success.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

man thats gross posted:

For those who already have the equipment and actually SELL their BTC, it's basically free money (minus the negligible cost in electricity).

More "free" in the in the winter than the summer though. In the winter the waste heat may be useful, actually helping to offset the electricity cost. In the summer the waste heat is unpleasant and you'll have extra costs running air conditioning or circulation fans to try to keep your mining room reasonably cool. Maybe not a huge expense, but something to consider for people thinking of getting into it now.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Wreckus posted:

Bitcoins are divisible to the 8th decimal place, you can't run out of them.

That is another way that they are retarded. When I want to buy slim jims I expect to see a price like 1 or 1.50, something 3 digits or fewer. I don't want to see a price like 0.03411908 because that is just too many numbers.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Salt Fish posted:

The point is that a bitcoin is worth what people believe it is worth. A dollar doesn't have intrinsic value; it represents value. A bitcoin doesn't need to have intrinsic value either; its worth the grams of sweet sweet crystal meth you trade it for.

Beaver pelts do have an intrinsic value though. They are soft and warm, suitable for blankets and attractive beaver felt hats. We should move to the pelt standard immediately. We may run into problems when someone wants to buy a pack of gum with 1/87 of a beaver pelt, but I feel certain we will overcome those minor technical difficulties in time.

Beaver pelts: wave of the future.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

evensevenone posted:

I haven't exactly looked, but could you point me to an individual who's done that? The worst I saw was someone who spent about $5K on graphics cards, although he's probably making about $100 a day off them right now.

This guy: http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/29/why...s-into-bitcoin/
"These past days, I have done a lot of thinking about bitcoin that ended up with me investing all of the money I had saved and all that I can borrow into the currency."

Edit: lol, despite all his thinking, he is surprised that drugs help fuel the popularity of bitcoins: http://falkvinge.net/2011/06/07/wee...ptoproficiency/

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

jabby posted:

First, with proper cooling or reasonable downtime I doubt you would shorten the life of the GPU that much (and no-one uses their CPU to mine btw).

Why not? If you have a dedicated mining rig that you keep running 24/7 doing nothing but mining, why have the CPU sit idle?

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Drone_Fragger posted:

because CPUs are woefully inefficiently at hashing, since it's a task more suited to parallel processing, which all GPUs will do extremely well now.

Right, they aren't excellent at it. But if the CPU is not being used at all, wouldn't it be better to have a little extra hashing power?

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

The Brown Menace posted:

If aliens took over earth and used bitcoins someone on the intergalatic net would post a BITCOINS CRASHING, SELL SELL SELL thread, bankrupt the aliens and the occupation would end in like 2 weeks.

Great, they've already burned the paper money and used all the gold for industry, now some troll has crashed the only currency Earth had left. We'll have to go back to the barter system.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Bash Ironfist posted:

The barter system is a time-proven system to work, unlike bitcoins. A chicken will always be a chicken, man.

Edit: If someone offered me either a million bitcoins for my thing, or a goat, I'd take the goat. You know you can get milk/meat from the goat.

Meh. Right now, today, I'd take a million bitcoins. I can probably get at least a few hundred for them before they bottom out, and I have no where to keep a goat.

Though, if I did have a goat I could become a goat renter guy, that looks like a pretty sweet gig. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9jxa7T6WGQ

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Agreed posted:

Man the forums are brilliant right now, pretty much every possible avenue of making it seem like this isn't just a bog-standard tulip mania style commodity crash is being explored, up to and including psy-ops

That's awesome. I love this guy,
    "In the near future you will see some type of black and grey listing happening on the BTC client. People whom start gamiung the system will be black listed and there trans fees will skyrocket, therefor making it harder then what its worth"

Yes, we will protect our anonymous, decentralized currency from manipulation by reducing anonymity and creating a central blacklist authority, brilliant! This can not fail. It's not like people can just keep creating new accounts.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Garfu posted:

I still think it's kinda neat, but it was definitely executed poorly. The whole GPU power for free money is pretty dumb. I was just talking to a friend about how a digital currency backed by a banking institution or government or something tangible would actually be pretty convenient for a lot of the small online transactions. (Again, my thinking doesn't fall in line with any of the crazies on that forum or their community in general, I'm pretty apathetic about the whole thing actually, and I couldn't care less whether or not buttcon succeeds.)

A digital currency backed by an institution is basically Pay-pal or Visa. The difficulty being that those are not completely anonymous, and the government can shut you down if you are using it for drugs, illegal arms, human trafficking, terrorism, wikileaks, etc. Your financial records can also be subpoenaed for a criminal or civil trial, an IRS audit, or even a divorce. In some cases your accounts can be frozen or seized.

Move your money into bitcoins (and hide your private key) and no one can tell how much money you have, much less get their grubby hands on it. No one has the authority or the means to easily identify your wallets. If you are concerned about violent, tax-thieving governments, vapid sperm-stealing cunts, or corrupt law enforcement trying to take your money than this is a great feature. It is a feature that a legitimate, law-abiding business just can't provide.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Pizer posted:

It's a really good system for buying LSD and hiring hitmen, i'll give it that. Wish that went in the creators whitepaper.

Your hitman might get cranky if his fee dropped 30% value in one afternoon. You don't want a cranky hitman.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

OddOne posted:

I see that as proof of the idea that a currency actually needs a central authority in order to work, and that if there isn't one, the market will elect one on its own.

Could be. Centralizing things is convenient.

Reminds me of Eve Online again. Eve online has 4 main factions, each with their own territory, and in the early days there was a central location owned by a neutral NPC faction that had the main market hub. People would travel from all over to trade in Yulai. The game devs decided that a neutral central marketplace didn't fit their dystopian future setting, so they removed the gates that made it a natural central hub. The travel gates were arranged so that each of the 4 factions would have their own natural trade hub. Players soon made Jita the new central market hub for the whole game, the other 3 mini-hubs are definitely secondary. The only difference now is that if you don't live in that faction's space it take 30 minutes to get there instead of 10. The attempt to break up the market just ended up making the game a little more boring.

People love centralized markets.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Barudak posted:

Most of these people seem to have arrays of these things. While 16 or more top of the line gaming PCs might be cool, I don't think you'd need that outside of a netcafe.

They can have cool LAN parties with all their friends.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Garfu posted:


You could recoup your building costs in around a month and if all goes to hell you can certainly sell your 3 6970s for like 2/3 of the original $350 price.

If it all goes to hell there is going to be a huge glut of those top 3 video cards hitting the market. Video cards that have been running 24/7, quite possibly packed 2 or 3 to a mother board, over-clocked and under-cooled, maybe even left sitting on a kitchen counter with no case for months. During the summer. They aren't very old, but they are aged.

If I see dozens of these things pop up on ebay or craigslist in a few months I wouldn't buy one for 2/3 the new price, not even for 1/2.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

My PIN is 4826 posted:

They can use one machine for gaming, then the other 99 rigs in their basement for folding proteins, curing cancer and get a symbolic high five from humanity

And heating your house. Don't forget heating your house. Central heating is for chumps.



Edit: Wait, folding@home is no good, you want to run SETI@home. Once you find aliens you can sell them your bitcoins.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Hungry Gerbil posted:

This is still active? How long until they run out of data?

Looks like it. http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

tiananman posted:

Once again: bitcoins are not libertarian. Most libertarians are interested in currencies backed by hard assets.

If anything, this whole bitcoin experiment proves an Austrian economics (libertarian) tenet that assets eventually revert to their intrinsic value.

If you believe in the market, this experiment only bolsters your position because bitcoins have much more in common with Federal Reserve Notes than they do silver certificates or gold bullion.


The idea is that the currency will be stable because no one can press the "print" button and print scads more money whenever they want. No government can inflate the money supply and thereby steal the value of your savings. It is supposed to act just like gold, but online. Gold for the future. Money will be produced at a predictable rate, and there is a hard cap of 21 million bit coins. It is imaginary, but it acts like a limited resource.

Not libertarian, technolibertarian.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Rudager posted:

Is there a use yet that isn't completely shady or straight up illegal?
Slim jims.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Gutcruncher posted:

The most infuriating thing about this is that two 16 year old girls costs more than it would cost for two 16 year old girls individually. You would think someone running a business might know a bit of math.

You don't get volume discounts on everything. It probably costs more because the two girls don't live together, so to get them in the same room requires more planning (and possibly travel expenses) than two separate girls. Plus they will have to touch each other, which is potentially more icky than a solo performance.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Cthulu Carl posted:

What travel expenses? Does Skype not do conference calls?

If you want "two girls together," chances are you don't want them talking to each other, you want them touching each other. You want them to be in the same room.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

TC_ posted:



Jesus Christ.

I just don't understand poo poo like this. I regularly talk myself out of walking two blocks away and buying a Red Bull because I have coffee here, so I can't justify the purchase.

I can't even fathom the thought process that would lead to this much. Even if you resell that poo poo you're probably talking cents on the dollar. He really loving believes he's going to get rich and pay all that off.

The only way that picture makes any sense is if he has a business selling mining rigs to other suckers. With that many he might be able to get a bulk discount on parts, assemble the rigs himself and install all the software to make a turnkey mining operation for people who want to hop on the gravy train but aren't technically inclined enough to build their own rig.

If he actually has all those things set up in his own house, well, I guess we've just seen our next heat stroke patient.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Midorka posted:

It seems this is the dream world of teens who's parents will support their hobbies, no matter what. One bitcoin advocate in IRC had this to say, "I'm making $300 a month with ONE 5870." Funnily enough he has no idea how much the electricity costs since he's 16 and doesn't pay for it. Either way how can you even boast about $300 a month?

Don't you realize how many slim jims he can buy? The kid has a right to be smug, he has a box in his room making GBS threads out free slim jims.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Amarkov posted:

The problem is that everyone does something stupid like hoarding their bitcoins, because oh my god if the price goes up to X before it crashes I'll get so much more! Yes, if you're very careful and fully rational about it you probably won't lose too much in a crash, but nearly everybody overestimates their ability to remain careful and rational in the face of possibly earning lots of .

Not to mention that the price of bitcoins can crash hard in just a couple hours. If that happens while you are sleeping, at work, or out getting drunk with your friends you might not learn about a crash for hours. The price could drop below before you even start trying to sell. At which point all the other panic sellers are also trying to sell.

I guess if you have one of those fancy phones you can probably check the rates periodically, perhaps subscribe to a bitcoin twitter thing or news feed that will tell you when very bad things are happening that can affect your precious bitcoins. But that still won't help if the crash starts while you are sleeping. They are so volatile that being out of the loop for just a few hours can literally cost you a fortune.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

ChubbyEmoBabe posted:

But why buy something you can just make with a septic tank a blender and an oven?

You take that back!

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

bag of a bee posted:

What IS the solution to bitcoin security?

If you have something that is actually critical, and not just a matter of inconvenience, you don't store it on an internet facing network. I mean, does the NSA store its most hardcore secrets on an internet facing network?

If someone hacks into your computer and gets your debit/credit card number or whatever yeah it sucks but usually they're limited to what they can do and your bank can re-imburse you etc. But there seems no protection at all for the bitcoin wallet other than "don't get hacked." In that sense it's like cash, but cash at least can be stored in a single secure location, like a bank vault.

I guess people that actually take it seriously (not me heh) will have to come up with some kind of elaborate system, as the usual method of practicing good security can protect you in 99% of cases which is good enough for just about everything but that margin isn't good enough for something as critical as "lose once forever hosed."

Savings accounts. There is no reason to keep everything in one wallet, you can have hundreds of wallets if you want. On your computer connected to the internet you'll have your working wallet that you use to collect mined coins and pay for slim jims. Once a month transfer excess funds to a physically secure USB stick wallet.

If you have thousands of bitcoins that you plan to hold onto, stick the wallet on a USB stick, and put that in a safe, or in a safe deposit box at the bank. Now nobody can steal your imaginary money unless they physically break into your safe. Of course hardware can go awry, you bank could burn down, etc. Luckily USB sticks are cheap. Backup your life savings on two or three USB sticks, and keep them in separate, physically secure locations.

You can also back up encrypted wallets some places online, a sort of virtual bank vault. I'm sure that can be very secure if you do it right. On the other hand, lulzsec et al are never going to hack into your safety deposit box down at the bank, and bank robbers don't care about bitcoins.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Why is a conspiracy even necessary? A month ago bitcoins were worth like $10 or so, right? Then there were a few popular articles (notably the Silk Road ones) that created a temporary demand for BTCs among non-technoanarchistlibertarians and the price spiked to around $30 very quickly. Since then the price has been very unstable. A couple months ago they had never been above $10, so how is "crashing" to $13 evidence of a vast illuminati/NWO/lizard people plot to destroy bitcoins?

Isn't it more likely that the press coverage and Internet buzz created a temporary flurry of interest, driving up demand, and now they are just returning to the "real value" BTCs have for True Believers and hobbyists? People who have hopped on the gravy train in the last month or two may be disappointed, but guys who have been doing this for months and months should be really, really happy at $13, at least it hasn't dropped back below $10.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Monitor posted:

Yeah it only goes up

Well, I'm convinced. BRB, gonna go buy some new video cards.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

gnarlyhotep posted:

Actually EVE has several different market regions and mineral prices are based on scarcity and demand in a region. You can buy (or mine) minerals in one region and then take them to another to sell for profit. You can also use them to build your own ships, equipment, etc and sell those. It's a pretty impressive system that models the real commodities market remarkably well. That said, nobody running or playing EVE expects ISK (the currency) to become the new world currency, because that would be stupid.

I, for one, would enjoy buying bread and milk with Inter Stellar Kredits.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Chris Knight posted:

My only question to these dudes is: where the hell is Satoshi Nakamoto?

He is chilling with Carmen Sandiego.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

How is the MTGOX outage affecting the fine purveyors of slim jims and drugs that normally adjust their prices based on the going rate for BTCs?

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Secret Agent Cow posted:

It seems that atlas is feuding with the guy who got all of his bitcoins stolen in this thread a random guy arguing with atlas on behalf of mtgox.http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=20334.0

I can't believe atlas is trying to argue that the guy mismanaged his money when he was hacked on a website not owned or controlled by him.

Edit: It has now roughly disintegrated into Atlas saying that mtgox should just give Atlas the bitcoins he got through the hack. As well as role-playing cattle farmers?

Well, that he should get to keep the coins or get compensation for the trouble. If you are the victim of a crime, and you victimization inconveniences me, then you should compensate me for that inconvenience. After all, if you didn't want to get victimized you shouldn't have been dressed like that. Why should I have to pay for your poor judgement?

This can't be real. He must be a deep cover troll.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Amarkov posted:

Remember the posts earlier in the thread, speculating that Bitcoin advocates would end up following the entire history of monetary development in fast-forward? I feel really stupid for taking them as just witty observations.

I hope the ride doesn't end too soon. If they can hold on a little longer we'll get to see into the future.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Power Walrus posted:

This has to be the dumbest loving way of losing loads of money. When you buy cinder block speakers you at least get the cardboard box. Jesus Christ.

And cinder blocks! You can use those to make shelves and stuff.


Rudager posted:

The gently caress is the point of this 24/7 live webcam OnlyOneTV has going?

Transparency. They have nothing to hide.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Gorilla Salad posted:

This is from a dozen pages back (this thread moved FAST) and now I have to try to explain to my friends why I'm laughing hysterically over a picture of a couple guys in a bland room with a camera's demo mode display overlaying the image.

It isn't just a bland room, it is apparently a studio. Dudes rented a studio. Never learned to operate cameras though. Pro.

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

contingencyplan posted:

Also, how is open source "communism in action"?

I assume he meant ideological communisim, not Soviet communisim, Chinese communisim, or any other form of communism that has ever been tried at the state level.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

Marx predicted that in an ideal society without scarcity people work because they want to, and everyone would take just what they need -- basically StarTrek:TNG. In real life we've found that many people are lazy and produce nothing if they have the chance, and many people are avaricious and hoard much more than they need if they can, so even so-called communist nations have had to keep using currency and other government controls as a way to control the distribution of goods.

We may be a ways away from eliminating physical scarcity, but the internet and Open Source "communism" have eliminated some IP scarcity. Coders write open source software because they are able to do so and enjoy doing it. People use open source software that they need. It is drat near perfect communism.

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Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008



Ham Wrangler

Ivor Biggun posted:

Bitcoin mining could be outsourced to Mexico to take advantage of the USD to Peso exchange rate to try and remain profitable. That is assuming that power in Mexico is relatively cheaper. That or as someone suggested the bitcoin miners suddenly develop an interest in solar panels with an assumed hilarious lack of understanding of the initial costings and relative time to profitability.

Not Mexico, Canada. http://www.neb-one.gc.ca/clf-nsi/rn...kdqstn-eng.html According to this 1n 2007 on average electricity was .12/kwh in Mexico, .10/kwh in USA, and .07/kwh in Canada. The price of oil has gone up since 2007, so it is probably higher in places that use a lot of oil. Canada uses mostly Hydro, a good chunk of nuclear, and relatively little coal and oil.

But I'm still not mining bitcoins.

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