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bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

Cyril Sneer posted:

So is anyone actually making real-life money off this?

Yes, believe it or not.

As long as people are buying/using bitcoins, they have some value. If you bought them when they were cheaper you will have some unrealized gains, potentially.

This is also where the term "speculative bubble" becomes relevant.

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bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

I have a mid-high end desktop system that wasn't too pricey (i7 processor, 4GB RAM, etc)...what would my bitcoin production rate be? What about on my super slow old netbook?

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

Let's say the site shuts down and all the bitcoins are lost. Other than the electricity and/or hardware costs, have the "miners" lost anything? Also, assume that the site owners make off with everything of value from bitcoin: do they actually have anything of value? Is there any actual cash involved?

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

Hungry Gerbil posted:

Morally corrupt people do. Yes.

What the hell, how drat naive are you?

BLARGH THE FREE MARKET SHOULD BE RULED BY MY OWN MORAL CONVICTIONS COUPLED WITH MY

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

Hungry Gerbil posted:

Yeah, ok. You believe in the free market. How old are you? Do you think Santa Claus is real, too?

This is a very good post, looking forward to reading more from you!

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

kw0134 posted:

This isn't an argument, it's a conclusion. If everyone at the table has the exact same set of facts, but each ardently and fervently believe the other party is wrong on its interpretation, what precisely is the scam?

Because you're not allowed to take advantage of greed-induced stupidity, duh.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

Boner Slam posted:

In economic theory, a misinformed decision to sell at 100$ instead of 1000$ is under normal assumptions not efficient for general welfare.
In aggregated welfare it would be better to sell at 1000$ if it is worth 1000$ (the simpelst explanation is diminishing return in utility of money earned by the "scamming" dude).


So bottomline there is an interest to combat those market failures with information policy.


Wether or not it is moral, the society has an interest to minimize those trades.
This could be a moral foundation of that sort.

What "economic theory" is this?

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

Boner Slam posted:

Regular information deficiencies, found in new institutional economics but pretty much everywhere else as well today.


edit: here, a link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_in...ional_economics

Perhaps you can walk the dog on this for me because I don't know of any actual theory that supports your argument (which was something about the scammer not having as much utility for the money as the scammee or something).

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

It is pretty dumb to argue that taking advantage of greed-driven stupidity is unethical, especially when there is exactly zero information asymmetry.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

theflyingorc posted:

Are you really going to say that the guys sending "Nigerian Prince" E-mails are justified? They are exactly scamming people based on greed-driven stupidity.

Terrible analogy: there is sigificant information asymmetry in your example. Try again, harder this time.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

theflyingorc posted:

You specifically said that taking advantage of greed-based stupidity was not wrong. Information asymmetry was not part of the proposition put forward, as far as I can tell.


bewbies posted:

It is pretty dumb to argue that taking advantage of greed-driven stupidity is unethical, especially when there is exactly zero information asymmetry.

Good point there man

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

archangelwar posted:

How is a Nigerian scam email telling you that you have inherited money from a dead relative that you have never heard of different than a forum dedicated to telling you that bitcoin will be worth $100 each by the end of the year?

Seriously?

Well, because you have no dead relative, the individual doing the Nigeria scam is very deliberately lying in order to get an action from you. As far as I can tell, the true believers on the bitcoin forums are mostly arguing in good faith.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

theflyingorc posted:

You said ESPECIALLY. Let me explain how words work.

Your proposition is "it is silly to call taking advantage of greed-based stupidity unethical", then you added a rider. I discarded it to discuss your core proposition. "Especially" means that this case is MORE TRUE than your base case, but I do not need to address it to counter your base proposition.

Listen, if you want to revise your statement to "It is pretty dumb to argue that taking advantage of greed-driven stupidity is unethical when there is exactly zero information asymmetry." - that's fine, we can debate on those terms. However, I have to assume that you actually choose the words you use for a reason. I know we're just postin' on internets, so if you request benefit of the doubt, I'll give it.

Please don't criticize because I argued against the words you said, rather than the words you meant to say.

A fine post! You're still wrong and your analogy still sucks.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

ChubbyEmoBabe posted:

So what do you think about a pyramid scheme? All of the participants are given the same factual information.

I challenge you to show an example of a pyramid scheme that was both legal and where all participants had equal access to all relevant information.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

^^ I assume this is goon for "I can't"

Nuclearmonkee posted:

Bitcoins.

Not a pyramid scheme, no promises are being made (it is pure speculation, even the truest true believer knows this).

Amway (in its old iteration at least) doesn't qualify either, low level participants knew next to nothing about the operation.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

ClosedBSD posted:

I was always under the impression that fiat currency was just currency without the backing of something with intrinsic value or itself didn't have intrinsic value. Both don't have any intrinsic value, although backing by the US government makes the dollar superior.

Depending on the definition though, being 'fiat' might require government backing, I'm not sure.

"Fiat" is just a fancy way of saying "because I said so" (in other words, money has value because someone says it does). Usually with currency the only entity that has any authority to "say so" is a government, but I suppose that might change someday.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

Computer viking posted:

Is company scrip fiat currency? Disney dollars? Local currencies?(Ithaca hours etc)?

I'm asking because I don't actually know:)

It depends who you ask. The traditional definition of a fiat currency necessitates that it be legal tender (that is, its status as a currency is established by law), but some folks define it more broadly (any currency with no intrinsic value).

ChubbyEmoBabe posted:

It's generally defined as government backed but these idiots think it just means "created out of thin air"...as if bitcoins are not because a video card instead of a press does it, and no more can be created than the arbitrary limit.

All fiat currency is "created out of thin air" (thin air being either electrons in cyberspace or ink and whatever material bills are made out of). The key difference is who is guaranteeing the value.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

Computer viking posted:

The "backed by a government"-thing seems almost arbitrary; I'd feel safer with $100 disney dollars than with several government backed currencies. But ye, I see the idea.

I guess the question isn't if they're "fiat" (they are), but if they're "currency" (which usually implies government backing). That'd make BTC fiat non-currency as well, backed solely by the dubious willingness of others to buy them later.

Currency in its most basic form is just an economic medium, something to make transactions simpler than barter. The usefuleness of a currency (ie, how easy it is to obtain by selling things that you have and how easy it is to exchange it for things that you want) is the issue.

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bewbies
Sep 23, 2003
ASK ME ABOUT MY SODIUM LEVELS OVER THE NASHVILLE PREDATORS BEATING MY TEAM IN THE PLAYOFFS


Fun Shoe

Good Citizen posted:

I love that he's concerned about giving us 'free google links'

Its a good thing google doesn't autocorrect spelling mistakes

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