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Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received

tiercel posted:

Unless I'm mistaken, if you hang around at the pool, a ghostly image of Sephiroth appears and slowly sinks into it. It's actually pretty unsettling.



It does.

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GrizzlyCow
May 30, 2011

Triskelli posted:

Speaking of, why do animay baddies wind up being or wanting to become God? As Bender showed us, being put in that position is probably the worst punishment imaginable for a mortal conscience.
You're assuming that there would be any people left after Sephiroth becomes one with the planet. Meteor is strong enough to endanger the life of the planet. Sephiroth could be angling for a mass-extinction. All intelligent life goes the way of the dinosaurs. Or maybe his goal is more . . . um . . . "innocent" than that. Maybe he thinks he dissipate into the lifestream and become everyone and no one.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I forgot about the image of Sephiroth in the pool. I knew about it, but there's just so much stuff happening in the temple that I missed it this time.

John Luebke
Jun 1, 2011

Elentor posted:

I think the Gaia thing was there at the Ultimania guide. In any case FF7's world is a literal interpretation of the Gaia hypothesis so it's really the best name they could come up either way.

About Tseng - I'm going with the official story when it's applicable, as much as the EU sucks. But I thought when I first played the game he was injured but going to survive.

I always thought he was dead and AC retconned it, however, according to crazy old ImpAtom in the FF Megathread, (The old one I think.) the japanese script made it clearer that he actually survived.

Teratrain
Aug 23, 2007
Waiting for Godot

Nakar posted:

How does Sephiroth know his plan will, y'know... work?

Oh, I mean I buy the whole Meteor-makes-the-Lifestream-respond-to-the-injury thing, sure, that's sensible assuming that those things work the way they do.

But how does he know being at the center of the Lifestream upswell is going to let him absorb all the power or whatever? How can he be sure it won't overwhelm and destroy him, or he'll absorb too much and die, or he just won't be able to absorb all of it and will merely become Somewhat More Awesome rather than God?

I can actually think of an explanation for this, but it's a bit spoiler-y and I'm not sure what counts as EU bullshit and what doesn't any more.

Aishlinn
Mar 31, 2011

This might hurt a bit..


Meteor could always have been created as a weapon to attack -other- planets, only sephiroth is crazy enough to use it to attack the one he's actually living on.

Ghost of Starman
Mar 9, 2008
While this LP and thread have given me a new-found appreciation for a lot of the things that made FF7 the success that it was, I'm still not sold on the story as anything other than a trainwreck. I think I made the argument earlier that a long-form jRPG-style game isn't the format you want for a story this... convoluted, but I'll set that aside. I just don't think I can buy into a plot that essentially revolves around one batshit insane guy chasing an even more batshit insane guy across half the freakin' planet.

Canemacar
Mar 8, 2008

Ghost of Starman posted:

While this LP and thread have given me a new-found appreciation for a lot of the things that made FF7 the success that it was, I'm still not sold on the story as anything other than a trainwreck. I think I made the argument earlier that a long-form jRPG-style game isn't the format you want for a story this... convoluted, but I'll set that aside. I just don't think I can buy into a plot that essentially revolves around one batshit insane guy chasing an even more batshit insane guy across half the freakin' planet.

FFVII's story is weird as all hell, and that makes it awesome.

Cloud shows up and right from the start, he's established as an amnesic, schizophrenic, PTSD'd ex-black ops commando working for an eco-terrorist group.

Soon it becomes clear that things in his past just don't add up, but no one calls him on it because everyone else is also hiding things by virtue of being fundamentally broken people. To top it off, Cloud ends up leading the others around in a quest to kill an even more unstable, even more powerful lunatic who may or may not have destroyed his home town based on vague-memories than contradict all the physical evidence and memories of everyone around you.

So yeah, awesome plot that sometimes gets jumbled and confusing, but with this amount of mental dysfunction, I can see why.

Besides, what other game lets you cross-dress on the flimsiest of justifications, take a naked bath with a ripped Freddy Mercury, and keep your "dress-up" clothes through the rest of the game?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
It's funny how the prophetic Genesis fresco looks a lot more detailed than the prophetic PlayStation fresco.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum

Canemacar posted:

Besides, what other game lets you cross-dress on the flimsiest of justifications, take a naked bath with a ripped Freddy Mercury, and keep your "dress-up" clothes through the rest of the game?
Do we really want to know the answer to that?

Dead Cow
Nov 4, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.
I read through this LP just in time to get to the part that I don't remember much of. I was the kind of kid who unintentionally did speed runs so pretty much everything after this temple is a foggy haze because I got stuck being too low level at some point and gave up because I think I only had one save spot.

Keep up the awesome work Elentor I really liked the GamePro magazine update.

darealkooky
Sep 15, 2011

You sayin' I like dubs?!?
So is Tseng is alive, that means one of three things are probably true, right?

- Tseng is the toughest person in the game

- Sephiroth isn't all that

- Sephiroth was lying for some reason

Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received

Dead Cow posted:

I got stuck being too low level at some point and gave up

Let me tell you that that's impossible.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
My future Diablo 3 Level 1 run will shake the very foundations of this world. Except it will never happen.

Dead Cow
Nov 4, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

Let me tell you that that's impossible.

I don't know how spoilerish it is so I'll put it in the black box. I also may be misremembering because it's been almost 15 years.

When there's the crater there's a save point a little of the way down. I saved at that save point, and then repeatedly got my butt handed to me, so when I tried to leave the crater I got killed over and over and ended up completely out of items and I just couldn't get out.

Golbez
Oct 9, 2002

1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine

Dead Cow posted:

I don't know how spoilerish it is so I'll put it in the black box. I also may be misremembering because it's been almost 15 years.

When there's the crater there's a save point a little of the way down. I saved at that save point, and then repeatedly got my butt handed to me, so when I tried to leave the crater I got killed over and over and ended up completely out of items and I just couldn't get out.

It's not possible to be underlevelled, as being proven by OFS, but it is possible to be undergeared. Someone who is underlevelled and underequipped will probably be worse off than OFS, who will be vastly underlevelled yet overequipped.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum

darealkooky posted:

So is Tseng is alive, that means one of three things are probably true, right?

- Tseng is the toughest person in the game

- Sephiroth isn't all that

- Sephiroth was lying for some reason
Everyone Sephiroth kills is actually still alive, because his sword is too impractical to cause permanent injury.

Even President Shinra eventually awoke to the biggest head and backache in his life.

Dead Cow
Nov 4, 2009

Passion makes the world go round.
Love just makes it a safer place.

Golbez posted:

It's not possible to be underlevelled, as being proven by OFS, but it is possible to be undergeared. Someone who is underlevelled and underequipped will probably be worse off than OFS, who will be vastly underlevelled yet overequipped.

That's probably exactly it. Didn't realize how dumb I sounded until I realized OFS is doing the LLR.

I can't wait to see how this game ends, I've done a pretty good job of not getting spoilered so far, I don't actually know the ending.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Chapter 52 - Nothing else materias


So we just had our meeting with Sephiroth.



He explained to us his completely crazy plan.



He wants to summon a gigantic magic meteor to crash into the planet.





Then he'll stay at the center of the cataclysmic event.



The planet will send Lifestream towards it to heal the wound and he'll absorb it all.



Quite out of nowhere we hear a roar.



And since it's been a while since our last boss fight and they had to fill the boss fight quota, here we go!







The Red Dragon is an average fight. It can be fairly hard if the group is unprepared for it but is very unlikely to wipe your party.



Like the vast majority of bosses he's vulnerable to Poison. As a Fire-themed dragon he absorbs Fire, which means Beta is useless, as well as our newest Summon Kujata (which deals Fire/Ice/Lightning damage).




Overall a fairly boring fight.



Talking about elements, he drops the [Dragon Armlet], a fairly powerful armor (with 6 linked slots) that halves the damage from... Fire/Ice/Lightning. Yeah.





Sephiroth uses maphack, noclip and gravity hack.



Killing the Dragon also yields us the [Bahamut] summon. The Bahamut is one of the better Summons. While it deals in theory less damage than Leviathan (and a lot less than Kujata), its damage is non-elemental and ignores the enemy defenses.



Moving on. That thing floating on the table it's a temple miniature.





:downs:





:downsbravo:



Man I love useless JRPG multiple choice dialogues. Though if taken out of context this one is pretty amusing on its own.



Shaking it makes the entire temple trumble, other than that the options are useless.







That's some crazy development.



So let me see if I got this straight.



The Ancients built the Black Materia. Why?



I mean, it's not like they built the Temple to safeguard or contain the thing. The building is the materia.



Sure, you figured out a way to make some super deadly stuff that will invariably kill you. Isn't it smarter not to make it?



Unless it was made to kill something so horrible that total destruction would be preferrable, I suppose.



Man those Cetras weren't very good at surviving, no wonder they got extinct.



Well that truly sucks.







You'd be amazed at how long it took me to learn what flunkies meant, although the meaning is inductible.



You know what we should do? Take the spy using a robot machine and make him do it.



Oh.





Well when you put it this way.



We really have no choice.





There's no way to manipulate the clock anymore, so everything before the Dragon boss in the temple is a lost-forever. Room 12 is the exit - if you tried to access it before it resulted in a dead end.





Ok seriously game I know you love throwing bosses for no real reason but this is way too much.





Demon Gate is to most people the hardest boss in the game at this point.

His obscene amount of health at this point (10,000) makes him a great sample to showcase all the fun summons we've got so far that are otherwise absolutely useless, as well as Aeris' Limit 4-0.




And yes, that was Cloud's limit doing 62000+ damage.

Talking about Aeris, we just got a weapon that gives us +100% damage for each person who's dead. YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO.







And we award Aeris with the achievement "First character to reach damage cap." Thanks everyone.

And now, let's be really honest here.



I don't go around wasting my precious 4 Hero Drinks. This is how I really kill the bosses for my progression save. All of them. I just smash "confirm" and leave it.




Well it's not like we waited.





Well what am I gonna say? I'm glad you're doing the right thing even though that involves 0 loss for you?



Alright, I'll try to explain.



This was explained post-game in an interview about this whole sequence not making sense since Cait Sith is controlled.



The thing is that while Cait Sith is a controlled robot, the owner can't spend all his time controlling him.



Each robot is a sentient AI, so in this case he's really sacrificing himself (the robot, not the creator).



Oh cmon Aeris.



Tifa is right there. She even turns her back. For gently caress's sake.



Oh.





I like how Cloud is stoic, seemingly not understanding what the hell is happening.



Uh



Oh...kay?



I want you to solve the puzzle and give us the black materia.



Seriously guys Tifa is RIGHT THERE and it's not like everyone but Cloud doesn't know she's into him.







Ok let's try to get in the mood. A sentient entity is about to die for the greater good.







Look I'll be honest with you, this is one of the strangest sequences in the game to me.



Again, a very meta-sequence. It's like he's talking to you, the player. Or the owner of the toy. I'm not sure.



If I were to guess, I'd say this sequence goes in with the theme of consciousness vs. materialism.



That is slightly linked to the other subjects I talked. In this case - is Cait Sith worthy of feeling empathy, even though he's not real?



This is also a metaphorical question in itself, because no one in this game exists. But it doesn't matter - humans can empathize with objects and constructs.



Personally I think Cait Sith (the character) fails at that. He's not believable enough, even within his own universe. No one's gonna cry for him, and only Aeris seemed to empathize with his plight.



Still, it's an amusing thing to think about.



And with Cait Sith's sacrifice and the Temple's destruction, we finish this update.


NEXT TIME:

More poo poo happens! Good lord will poo poo ever stop happening again? THE PLOT TRAIN WILL STOP FOR NOTHING.




Chapter 52 Bugs & Bytes

Date with Yuffie



Yuffie's date is considerably harder to get than Tifa's or Aeris'.



It's also 100% irrelevant to the plot and if you went for it I hate you.



You basically need to do everything possible in order to piss off Tifa and Aeris.



As well as being a greedy bastard overall.





This game is so wrong.





That's it ladies, gentlemen.



The most awkward date in gaming history.





With that in mind, it's also loving hilarious.







Until next time!

Golbez
Oct 9, 2002

1 2 3!
If you want to take a shot at me get in line, line
1 2 3!
Baby, I've had all my shots and I'm fine
:neckbeard: I didn't how much I've missed your adorable boss cards.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...

That's actually a pretty clever way to protect it. Anybody who's crazy enough to try and get the Black Materia ends up dead. If there weren't remote controlled robots and Sephiroth's crazy mind control stuff it'd honestly be pretty untouchable.


:allears: Oh Cloud you entertaining dick you.

Rigged Death Trap
Feb 13, 2012

BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

cloud posted:

...............something


How he got mistaken for a Squall-esque I'll never know.

Schwartzcough
Aug 12, 2009

Don't tease the Octopus, kids!
Ouch; can't help feeling bad for Yuffie there.

Also, I'm sure you know this, but you can hide the menus during battle by holding Square (or equivalent button). Might as well do that if you can remember when you're just showing off stuff like summons, since the menus take up half the screen.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum
Well you can kind of understand Cloud's disinterest. Yuffie is, like... 15. And annoying.

Orange Fluffy Sheep
Jul 26, 2008

Bad EXP received
:stare: Good gobbling gently caress I'll never compare with Omnislash with the fuckin' Nail Bat.

Speaking of the LLG, I did have an update written but when I went to preview the post I noticed you updated so I'll just wait for a new page.

By the way, all this talk about the Black Materia being incredible destructive power no one wants to really use reminded me of something.

Shindragon
Jun 6, 2011

by Athanatos

Rigged Death Trap posted:

How he got mistaken for a Squall-esque I'll never know.

I blame Nomura. Cloud always gets mistaken for being emo. He was not, he was a sarcastic smart rear end, and was awesome.

Also I chuckled at you using the Nail Bat as an Omnislash. That was great.

Regalingualius
Jan 7, 2012

We gazed into the eyes of madness... And all we found was horny.




Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

:stare: Good gobbling gently caress I'll never compare with Omnislash with the fuckin' Nail Bat.

Speaking of the LLG, I did have an update written but when I went to preview the post I noticed you updated so I'll just wait for a new page.

By the way, all this talk about the Black Materia being incredible destructive power no one wants to really use reminded me of something.



...Geothermal energy? :shobon:

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead
Does the level of Bio affect the chance of inflicting poison or should I use Added Effect?

keet
Aug 20, 2005

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

:stare: Good gobbling gently caress I'll never compare with Omnislash with the fuckin' Nail Bat.

Speaking of the LLG, I did have an update written but when I went to preview the post I noticed you updated so I'll just wait for a new page.

By the way, all this talk about the Black Materia being incredible destructive power no one wants to really use reminded me of something.



It sort of does explain why there's not an in-universe explination if you treat it as a real obvious metaphor like that. I always assumed all the meteor spell does is be a big magnet to space rocks, not that the meteor is actually evil.

It would be interesting if summoning giant space rocks had an intended purpose, and if that's how Jenova got to the planet in the first place.

One oddly refreshing thing I like about Aeris in this newest update is it reminds me she has total freedom to pull the Mysterious Mystic Who Doesn't Explain poo poo (watching FF13, there's a girl who does that poo poo constantly) but she goes out of her way to decrypt weird things she feels because she knows people won't understand it, and she asks questions and clarifies when they DON'T make sense. You can almost hear her go "ok this poo poo is bananas, but hear me out".

One interesting facet of her personality though, is how much she doesn't mention to people. Nearly every character in the party has this problem, but she does it as a way to protect characters (arguably versus Tifa, who does it to protect HERSELF, and the fact it might sound selfish probably not only bothers her but might explain a touch of jealousy she has). It's pretty much the most motherly thing Aeris does, and even after finishing the game I was never quite sure how much of the plot she already predicted or known beforehand would/did happen.

Shindragon posted:

I blame Nomura. Cloud always gets mistaken for being emo. He was not, he was a sarcastic smart rear end, and was awesome.

I wouldn't even say emo; he's not mopey either. Ironically, the one think that makes him kind of unique as a FF lead (under pressure he is literally crazy as bananas) is forgotten.

e: edited because I'm a dope

keet fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Jun 13, 2012

Silver Falcon
Dec 5, 2005

Two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight and barbecue your own drumsticks!

Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

:stare: Good gobbling gently caress I'll never compare with Omnislash with the fuckin' Nail Bat.

Personally, I laughed harder at Aeris one-shotting the boss with a quad-9 smack to the face. I'm used to Cloud doing crazy damage with Ominslash. It's just what he does.

Also that Yuffie date is hilarious and awkward. Oh Cloud, you card you.

Petiso
Apr 30, 2012



About Tseng's demise:
Doesn't Elena confirm him dead later in that snowy village?

Also, there is a slap sound effect after the ".....something" line :downs:

Grinnblade
Sep 24, 2007

Is this... the Temple of the Ancients... in Minecraft?

Jesus H. Christ.

Elentor
Dec 14, 2004

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

She is definitely one step ahead of everyone, but she knows she can't immediately act on it to protect the others, which is what makes her such an interesting character.

It's also what makes replays of this game so impressive, even more so than playing it for the first time. The game hints on Aeris knowing what the hell is going on as early as Cosmo Canyon (maybe earlier).

And please spoiler tag your post, you mention things that can't be predicted yet. You're always talking about things way ahead :(

Grinnblade posted:

Is this... the Temple of the Ancients... in Minecraft?

Jesus H. Christ.

Try clicking on it for even more insane stuff.

Golbez posted:

:neckbeard: I didn't how much I've missed your adorable boss cards.

Thanks :3:

Elentor fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jun 12, 2012

SweaterGear
Jan 4, 2010

There's a Monopenguin! :swoon:
I have a feeling that Omnislash would look more impressive if the enemy wasn't a giant wall that blocks the nifty camera angles. Also, :dance: for the return of Boss Cards!

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
Cloud is the best character. If they would've made his KH incarnation this sarcastic and hilarious... well, if they would've, I guess that would mean that KH would have to have something happy in it, and we can't have that now, can we?

Aclam
Jun 20, 2011

:backtowork:
So, anyone else get loving destroyed by Demon Wall on their first run?
I have such fond memories of getting wiped out by cave in over and over again. :allears:

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe

penguinmambo posted:

It sort of does explain why there's not an in-universe explination if you treat it as a real obvious metaphor like that. I always assumed all the meteor spell does is be a big magnet to space rocks, not that the meteor is actually evil.

The game isn't very subtle with its enviroinmentalism themes, no. Meteor is nukes, Mako Reactors are a metaphor for modern industrial power production and Shinra represents rampant capitalism.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!

Aclam posted:

So, anyone else get loving destroyed by Demon Wall on their first run?
I have such fond memories of getting wiped out by cave in over and over again. :allears:

Incidentally, since my first FF was 2/4, I saw the Demon Wall and just pounded it as hard as I could with everything I had at my disposal--Haste, Slow, Bahamut, you name it, it was there. That motherfucker didn't even stand a chance and it wasn't until years later when I learned that people had trouble with it.

Not only that, but I was behind levels because I got lost on the Tiny Bronco in the wrong direction; I got the Diamond Armlets from Bone Village, but saw neither hide nor hair of Wutai.

Rohan Kishibe
Oct 29, 2011

Frankly, I don't like you
and I never have.
The Demon Wall is the thing that taught me that keeping an up to date backup save in a jRPG is a good idea. If I recall correctly, it can stone your party members and I didn't have the Heal materia (and didn't know about Softs for some reason?) and it kept pounding me into the ground. I think I was dumb or something back then because rather than just grind up levels, I reverted to an older save way back in the Nibel mountains or something.

The White Dragon posted:

Cloud is the best character. If they would've made his KH incarnation this sarcastic and hilarious... well, if they would've, I guess that would mean that KH would have to have something happy in it, and we can't have that now, can we?

In KH 2 Cloud pokes fun at Squall for sucking when they are fighting an army of heartless. I think it's the only time he smiles in either game.

Elentor posted:

Try clicking on it for even more insane stuff.

It's minor but there is a slight spoiler in the video on that page It shows the Sister Ray already having been installed in Midgar

Rohan Kishibe fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jun 12, 2012

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tiercel
Apr 22, 2008
That date would have been perfect if all your materia were gone afterwards.

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