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If there's a veritable botanical garden right next door to Aeris's own drat house and she still goes out through the monster infested junkyard to care for wild flowers in an abandoned church--all this is at the risk of being eaten or kidnapped or worse or all three-- then... maybe the stuff she has at home is ...I dunno, all fake? Like it's just gifts n' poo poo all those body guards bought but it's about as real as Shin-ra altruism. Though I also just picture it could just be a bunch of plastic plants the Turks once bought, snuck in when neither lady of the house was looking, shone all those spot lights on it, and then ran to hide behind some corner to see if it would lure Aeris outside. ...Yeah, that's pretty stupid, but c'mon. Who couldn't see Reno doing that to make it seem like he was giving a drat about his job?
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Jun 8, 2011 02:45
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Psion posted:I think this is what people mean when they talk about nostalgia for 2D hand drawn backgrounds; it's not so much the art itself on technical merit - but Square's art direction for the entire PSX FF trilogy was top-notch. There was so much imagination going into it, yeah. SaGa Frontier, for all its faults, shares this quality of having backdrops and set-pieces that all look like they have their own story and explanations for being there, but FF7 really immerses you into it with Midgar. Though in this area, does anyone else ever get a "Fair grounds" kinda vibe going? Its right next door to an old playground and there're no paved roads or anything where alot of the buildings kinda sorta look like tents or hastily constructed buildings.
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Jun 9, 2011 17:27
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Woozy posted:Yes. To be honest, I still love FF7 a ton, but like a friend once elaborated, if you look at it one way, it's *really* like a gripping Shadowrun campaign when suddenly the GM goes "Hay guys! I just bought this book called Exalted!  Rehash your sheets right away!" And things go on from there, not quite the same.
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Jun 15, 2011 03:24
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Waffleman_ posted:This is why I love Hojo. He's just the embodiment of Hojo's one sick gently caress alright, but you'd think that what with President Shinra working so hard to find the Promised Land... he'd really take offense that his lead  dude is trying to use the girl key to those plans as part of an attempt to breed werewolfcougarancients.
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Jun 23, 2011 16:06
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Professor Hojo, we have the Ancient and the....dog thing ready. What should we do next?
MAKE THEM gently caress!
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Golden_Zucchini posted:No, once they breed all the female kids will be clones of Aeris and all the males will be clones of RedXIII. Didn't you ever watch cartoons? I thought cartoons had differing opinions on this course of genetics. I direct you to Shrek 2 where you can, apparently, breed donkeys and dragons where the resulting children are mish-mashes. Then again, you have Usagi Yojimbo's creator saying if a cat girl and a rabbit dude have offspring, the boys would be rabbits, whereas the girls are cats (And we all know Stan Sakai is never wrong.) Clearly Hojo must be performing this experiment to see what rules his world operates under.
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Jun 23, 2011 16:43
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...So why DID he leave the sword there? Just to send the message that Billy Bishonen Badass is back in town?
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Jun 25, 2011 05:05
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Looking at that AWESOME artwork of the car everyone else piled into, I realize that Tifa is the driver. This in and of itself is pretty kick-rear end, but when I saw the car after all the years since last playing the game I thought for a sec (since in Japan the steering wheel's on the right side) Aeris was behind the wheel. ...Which is even more awesome to imagine the flower girl is AVALANCHE's wheelman.
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Jun 26, 2011 03:31
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To me, this while Ultemecia theory is the only thing to make any sort of sense of FFVIII's plot...YMMV... but the one thing keeping it from being accepted 100% is... well.. Can anyone actually picture the development crew sitting around and PLANNING this poo poo out and then not making it more obvious in the game itself?
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Jun 29, 2011 15:35
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Elentor posted:I think it's worth pointing out something - FF7's plot was written by Sakaguchi (the series creator, who also wrote FF1-6 except FF3), and he didn't have any involvement with FF8's plot as far as I know. ...Huh. That would explain a ton more than Ultemecia's theory right there. Did he ever write any of the later games?
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Jun 29, 2011 17:03
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Gahmah posted:So anyone else just figure the sorceress powers were just making all the sorceresses evil? And then you kill it in the rather... odd final boss of FF8? I mean she's hanging upside down chained to it in the end... Ah well, doesn't matter, it all just came out of left field. If it is, that's still a poor excuse. "Oh sorry, the legacy of our powers means anyone who gets them will be corrupted and will do all sorts of evil poo poo that will bring upheaval on the global scale, and it's all thanks to what boils down to a dying witch going 'tag, you're it' to some innocent person nearby." That rules out any actual motivations or character depth to be found within any of the witches as they are in the most basic terms stricken with a disease. That's not good story telling, or at least on the level FFVIII was going for. You can have that sort of 'villain' in a Resident evil game (and they have do so, for all the melodrama) or anything wherein a plague of physical/meta/magic sorts is creating monsters and or villains. But this is all a dramatic fantasy opera; you need a dramatic villain, not a random woman who caught witchyness. Even if you try to expand on the idea that "power corrupts and this particular power leads to villiany or madness" we're given utterly no look into who Adel or Ultemecia are and saying that the primary forces of evil in VIII are basically Evil Virus Victims doesn't really create or build upon any drama. Since we know nothing about them, going along with this only gives us the barest sympathy for either of them because in the end, you're attacking and killing a faceless victim of circumstance. They're not meant to be victims. They're just single dimensional villains who were created with little care or forethought as to what motivates them past a fan theory that may not even be intentional.
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Jun 30, 2011 23:23
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Gahmah posted:Ah, hadn't thought about it too critically. Kay, understand the dislike of them more now. Shame too, rest of FF8's story is pretty good if I'm not nostalgia'ing too hard right now. I have to admit, when I was a teenager waaay back in the day, I loved what I played until the year's+ worth of hype waiting for the game to come out faded and eventually the game lost nearly all appeal to me apart from some of the awesome summons and music. But the TL;DR version that's gone through the thread already is that there are plot holes and inconsistencies of character found in the REST of the game to warrant an intense dislike. Though I have to be fair, the sentiment passed around about FF8 is "Nothing makes sense; this is stupid" or at least the first part depending on person. Opposed to FFX where a large consensus of opinion is "Everything about this game is a horrible clusterfuck. AND it's really stupid."
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Jul 1, 2011 00:07
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NikkolasKing posted:Well, if it offers any vague sort of comfort, there is a popular fan interpretation of Ultimec'as motivations. It's mainly conjecture from her speech as Edea in Galbadia. Her entire motivation presented in game(again, without going into fan theory) seems to be that she's a horrific megalomaniac who wants to compress time so she can rule past present and future all at once. Because...she's a greedy bitch? Honestly, from what I can tell, there feels no point to compress time since it leaves her with zilch... apart from a creepy gnarly Mystic Castle (as in the SaGa Frontier Mystics), a few mid-boss dudes and a castleworth of monsters. No spiritually broken subjects, no hordes of people from all times worshiping the ground she walks upon... hell, she doesn't even have a drat parade and Edea even got that poo poo.
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Jul 1, 2011 00:15
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NikkolasKing posted:Now forgive me but I am willing to theorize a little here but I think it's a decent theory. Huh. I stand corrected. She's not just a greedy bitch, she's a greedy AND dumb bitch who outsmarted herself in a way that's a few steps above being foiled by a wascawwy wabbit. This begs the question of why complicate matters by having three evil sorceresses when you need for story purposes Adel and Edea *only* to still get the same effect.
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Jul 1, 2011 00:44
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Adus posted:I always found it odd that there's a reactor in the mountains that must have been built by Shinra, but none of their own guys.. know how to get there? They have to hire a local girl for it? Funnily enough, Zangan's voice actor in some of Compilation is none other than Hiroshi Fujioka, the original Kamen Rider 1. Which is a few flavors of awesome right there. Unfortunately Tifa never Rider Kicks anyone...I think. :/ As for the reactor... maybe the local Shinra experts *were* eaten by monsters? Some giant dragon getting three or four of Shinra's Mako engineers would be enough to light a fire under it, sending some of their best troops to go mop the floor with the ghouls post-haste. TKMobile fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jul 1, 2011 |
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Jul 1, 2011 14:40
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Sephiroth has *always* given off a very serpentine vibe to me. In the polygons, the FMVs, the art, and Advent Children--all of it. In particular the way his hair's shaped with the in-character model reminds me moreso of a cobra and the Masamune is kinda drat near like a viper fang if you stretch this idea. So seeing him be anything other than calm, composed, or loving-someone-up always felt pretty unsettling.
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Jul 2, 2011 04:24
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Did they ever establish what Nibbelhiem was for prior to the Mako reactor and mansion construction? Most of the later places at least allude to some other intent and purpose, a reason why people would live and work there. Even Kalm has the claim of being a peaceful community away from the big giant Megacorp City. All the times I played the game, couldn't ever see a real reason or cause for it apart from what Shinra put in.
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Jul 2, 2011 04:52
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I think this:elentor posted:Who even told him that her name is Jenova anyway? Couldn't they just, you know, make up a name that would not risk him running into terrible secrets like that? Valiantman posted:This also drove home the point that Hojo really seems to be an incompetent lunatic who for some reason has access to almost unlimited resources and gfor some reason is allowed to do his thing completely unchecked. What is it with the idea that mad scientists, being mad, *have* to try to create and/or culture some ungainly experiment with no outside control factors; that this leads to the better results without any inhibitors? I don't know if Shin-ra was trying to grow new ancients in a lab, re: Sephiroth, or if they intended for him to have the military application.
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Jul 5, 2011 15:56
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Man, that zolom... This thread kickstarted my own playthrough of FF7 and dammit, it took me two days in my spare time to get that bloody Beta skill. The big problem for me was, until I moved everyone into the back row that the drat snake kept Beta-ing me and then IMMEDIATELY attacking afterwards, ending in a kill. I'd been doing everything else recommended except that up til then and it didn't work. Even twinking around like this, it's always been VERY satisfying to take the big bastard down after all these years, I gotta say.
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Jul 13, 2011 23:18
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Going back to the contention that the game would have stuck to the initial tone more if Midgar took up a much heftier portion of the world, Junon kinda sorta feels like it should be closer to the city. It's carried on the super industrial setting and worse yet, while Midgar itself is just a large, corrupt and looming city, this port with it's pipes, pollution and rusty corrosion is right next to the loving ocean. We *see* the damage done to the enviornment, not just a big-rear end sprawl with concrete and support beams covering up everything (this is not a slam on Midgar itself, mind, I'm just saying that nature/the planet is buried underneath.) It drives home this idea that no matter how far you travel you can't escape Shin-Ra's influence.
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Aug 6, 2011 01:07
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Well, I think it's okay if Midgar doesn't cover the ENTIRE planet; some of the later places are still breathtaking and don't ruin things by not being corrupted industrial... ...but after being in Shadowrun city for awhile, put yourself in Avalanche's many shoes: you're on the run, trying to not be killed by a huge mega corporation. While fleeing, you cross some really cool areas like a swamp with a HOLY poo poo kind of monster snake, a resources depleted mountain range with some nice visuals and unassuming lowlands before you finally get to the edge of the continent. You've just run through the boonies. Places that even Shin-Ra overlooks because who the gently caress cares about the monster swamp with *no* resources or mines they've excavated everything from. But you're getting out of the corp's reach is the point. Here's where you're thinking that you really are finally escaping and the rest of the world will provide some form of haven while you figure out what that loving nut-job General guy with the no-dachi is up to. ...Except upon hitting the coast you find yourself stuck in a polluted, rusting military port with a big gently caress-off cannon that's aimed in the general vicinity of the last major opponent to Shin-Ra grabbing the world by the balls. It's a powerful, gripping scenario to play a game around, except that the first places in your exodus were a town from a completely different, earlier FF game, and a cutesy wutesy Chocobo Farm. Couldn't Kalm have been like a bunch of gas stations and cheap tarmac, with some more dilapidated buildings and silos?
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Aug 6, 2011 01:41
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While it would have possibly hurt the pacing (regarding the team having to stop and reminisce about the past), I still think if the nice, friendly village and chocobo farm came *after* Cloud and Co's escape into the very dangerous boonies, you'd still get a better effect being stunned by Shin-Ra's reach and ruthlessness just when you think it's going to be safe.
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Aug 6, 2011 01:57
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Looking at Force Stealer's design up close, I realized something. It's Stormbringer. This sword-->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormbringer Aside from it's name, alluding to how Stormbringer sucked out souls and ate them, the sword Cloud just received --from the head of Shin-Ra's military-- is big, black, and has a bloody red loving eyeball in the hilt. It can't actually drain HP or MP or whatevrer (...I think) but the reference seems obvious now... Why the hell would Shin-ra just be dolling this thing out like it was candy?
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Aug 13, 2011 17:06
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Well, the USMC gives out sabers to officers and junk and ceremonial swords are commonplace in other military hierarchy, but with Shin-Ra... ..."Good job, here's a 100/100 replica of the evilest sword in literature for your services." I'm with you on this; they must be ordering metaphors at Cloud to cut a bloody path to the top of command.
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Aug 13, 2011 17:17
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I dunno; with Amano's work, it feels like you'd need a setting that would go well towards his talents. For example: the artwork Amano did for FF6 is frankly amazing stuff that fits the atmosphere of that particular mystic steampunk world dead on. There's a dream like quality to it all, yet there's a somewhat somber air as well, which goes well with the whole plot FF6 offered. Even the lighthearted characters are done well for the scene, and yet you still get a strong sense of presence. FFX, and this *isn't* a bash on the game so much, has a pretty different atmosphere with far more bright tropical, oceanic themes as well as being seeped in heavy pseudo Japanese mythos here and there, heavily based on Shintoism when it's done well..ish. Whether you hate the game or not, that sort of style doesn't go well with the work Amano puts out; his artwork of Tidus and Yuna feel like it's from something entirely different. Same goes for FF9 which, despite being closer to Amano's usual high fantasy elements, is really even more out of character. It's too upbeat and cheerful a scene for his art to convey the right attitudes, Vivi's artwork excluded. I've seen some of Amano's more sci-fi art (including an awesome series of a crazy rear end motorcyclist crashing through a bazaar) but it's still very organic looking at times, which would clash with FF7's very industrial scene. That isn't to say a setting with sci fi elements and a more modern bend wouldn't be impossible, it's just this isn't the game for it.
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Aug 17, 2011 08:19
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That seems kinda obsessive; it can one shot drat near everything like KotR. Aside from bragging rights and boredom, why would anyone go for it this early?
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Sep 1, 2011 19:55
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Based on the discussion in this thread, that is, about Dio using Dyne to some sick advantage, it would paint Dio as less an eccentric jerk and instead a sadistic sociopath and is an almost missed facet of just how oppressive the entire world really is. Look at it this way; the people running the world are a conglomerate with no apology about how they're running and ruining things for their own boon. Gold Saucer is in essence the entertainment hub of the world and who runs it? Why, a horrific steroid jar of a man who has a desert prison based off sets from Road Warrior at the loving base of his *amusement park.* I kinda wonder if no one ever protests this (apart from the broken people of Corel) or if the principle patrons of the place are jaded rich folks who probably don't know or care about the people living at the bottoms of the plates back in Midgard.
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Sep 11, 2011 03:41
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Waffleman_ posted:Well, it's not really a swear in the fact that it's taboo to say, it's just a very strong expletive. I've seen kuso said in kids shows. Based on the time I took Japanese and all the Anime I watched, what I inferred about the word in its use is that, like with the Japanese language in general, the angrier you say kuso, the more coarser the equivalent swearword is in English. It's still impolite, but using the word flippantly or not sounding very upset is sort of "oh, darn" in equivalency whereas an angry yell of the same phrase can be like "loving poo poo!" or so in English standards.
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Sep 13, 2011 22:41
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For some reason I sort of imagined Ester was.. basically a 'prison lawyer' who was going around trying to reduce sentences for people. Or something; I'm not sure what gave me this prompt but I was 17 at the time. Nowadays I wonder more if she (if she is even a she) lives in the prison or comes down from G.S. to check on things, because I can't imagine someone wearing that and surviving for more than three seconds on the Road Warrior set down there.
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Sep 27, 2011 00:31
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Dauntasa posted:I don't think he could have fit a full-size one through a KFC bucket without splitting it, anyway. Maybe the guy also has a Sol costume and he's just pretended the KFC Seal there is Cloud's hard edge.
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Oct 3, 2011 04:58
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I'm curious now: is it possible the changes made to the portrayals and perceptions of the FF7 cast (Cloud and the girls mostly) were not just gradual but intentional? There was that whole tumultuous post-FF7/Xenogears/Brave Fencer Musashi/etc. era when Spirits Within wrecked Square's poo poo but good and then all the games produced were (so they thought) safe bets but also were more contrite and cliched. Appealing to the fanbase's perception of how Cloud/Aeris/etc. are portrayed seems more in keeping with trying to keep the fans around than trying to explore the characters actually in the original game lest the fans don't follow.
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Oct 12, 2011 16:06
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Tactless Ogre posted:My best guess for the Gi Tribe was that their tribe and the Cosmo Canyon natives were competing for the land to live on. With hate so strong (from what Bugenhagen said about the some spirits not being able to return to the lifestream) that they couldn't merge with the lifestream, they came back as spirits, sealed in the cave. I can't understand how a simple steel door kept back all the spirits and whatnot in the cavern. Honestly, this is speculation, but rather than just recreating the entire plot of FF7 for Crisis Core, why weren't these guys tapped for villainy potential? You have a legion of zombie monster spirits in Bugenhagen's basement with enough subtext about seemingly once-human/natural beings becoming monsters to still plant seeds of madness in Sephiroth and its gives everyone, even Shin-Ra, a villain so unholy that it makes anyone against them a good guy by default.
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Nov 1, 2011 16:25
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Ghost of Starman--... Oh man that's bloody terrific! During the many replays of FF7 after I beat it the first time, I found myself using Vince less and less, and likewise had less interest in him as time went on. I think the "Do you have a phone?" scene after the subsequent action/angst moment of Advent Children basically sums him up entirely.
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Dec 11, 2011 20:36
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