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hatty
Feb 28, 2011



Pork Pro

You can tell itís Reiner so itís an improvement over volume 1-5

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Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011



lol

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


i mean you dont really have to be a good artist to be a good mangaka, if your storytelling is good and the art can communicate what it has to

now, whether isayama has those skills is a different question

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


I really enjoyed the post-timeskip arcs and I'm satisfied with the ending.

But I also enjoyed Ender's Game so what do I know?

iamsosmrt
Jun 14, 2008



Strawberry Pyramid posted:

I really enjoyed the post-timeskip arcs and I'm satisfied with the ending.

But I also enjoyed Ender's Game so what do I know?

Possible fascist sympathizer account spotted

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


I mean, Ishiyama said he "wanted to write a story without villains" and the central theme was "the world is cruel, and it is beautiful." Given those two facts, I don't see how it could have ended up otherwise?

This kind of reminds me of The Last Jedi backlash (a movie I also really enjoyed), where people got mad but were really bad at articulating why they didn't like it. Some were just chuds, but others were upset all the throrycrafting they did between movies was rendered pointless.

In this case, I feel like people were really wound up by the "aot is fascist apologia" hot takes and wanted the story to end on a strong denunciation of fascism and... it didn't do that. It ended on the note it always did: the world is beautiful, people suck a lot, but we're gonna keep muddling through and surviving anyway.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Anonymous Zebra posted:

It's actually very hard to write a story with a protagonist that has future-vision and keep the story interesting for the reader. Frank Herbert is obviously the God of this type of writing and he managed to keep it going by putting some pretty strong conflicts in the way of the omniscient protagonist. Most people forget that the crux of Dune is that Paul is desperately trying to prevent The Jihad for most of the book, but at every point he has to pick between a path of extinction or taking another step towards Jihad. He keeps hoping for most of the novel that at a later point he can move things back off course, but at the very end he suddenly sees with clarity that even if he dies at that moment that the Jihad now cannot be prevented. End of story. Once things get set in stone there isn't more story to tell.

The second Dune book is interesting because Paul does find an out from his terrible future, but that literally involves loving over his son with a worse one...which he willfully does because he chickens out and doesn't want to follow through with his atrocities. It's good storytelling because even with the power of prophecy, there is still a good conflict.

Eren needed more inner turmoil and desperation than the ~13 pages we got from the last 15 chapters combined. Instead we got

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Strawberry Pyramid posted:

I mean, Ishiyama said he "wanted to write a story without villains" and the central theme was "the world is cruel, and it is beautiful."

Well after Eren it becomes just cruel, all the beauty was flattened

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

I'm here


So what's better, this or the high school version.

theCalamity
Oct 23, 2010

Cry Havoc and let slip the Hogs of War


Turin Turambar posted:

Eren needed more inner turmoil and desperation than the ~13 pages we got from the last 15 chapters combined. Instead we got


What a great explanation for wanting to kill everyone and to destroy the world. Great writing.

Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009

mão na bola

Turin Turambar posted:

Eren needed more inner turmoil and desperation than the ~13 pages we got from the last 15 chapters combined. Instead we got


Eren wanted to be free so badly that he couldn't conceive following with Zeke's, so he did the next best thing and engineered a way for him to get the worm thing on a headlock

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

Goons Steal?
No Dignity!



In my head, I read up to the end of Attack on Titan (the basement reveal and its immediate follow up), everything else was just Attack on Titan GT.

Wii Spawn Camper
Nov 25, 2005

ICU? MORE LIKE ICURSOUL

Can someone please explain the Bert thing because I donít seem to remember the event itís referencing and Iíll be damned if Iím going to go looking for it at the point.

whalestory
Feb 9, 2004

hey ya'll!



Pillbug

Strawberry Pyramid posted:

I mean, Ishiyama said he "wanted to write a story without villains" and the central theme was "the world is cruel, and it is beautiful." Given those two facts, I don't see how it could have ended up otherwise?

This kind of reminds me of The Last Jedi backlash (a movie I also really enjoyed), where people got mad but were really bad at articulating why they didn't like it. Some were just chuds, but others were upset all the throrycrafting they did between movies was rendered pointless.

In this case, I feel like people were really wound up by the "aot is fascist apologia" hot takes and wanted the story to end on a strong denunciation of fascism and... it didn't do that. It ended on the note it always did: the world is beautiful, people suck a lot, but we're gonna keep muddling through and surviving anyway.

I don't think it really did a very good job at showing any of the beauty though. The cruelty was just orders of magnitude more immense that I just start furrowing my brow a bunch

The tone also seemed completely off. Eren killed a gigantic, enormous amount of people! What a man he was, thank you for becoming a mass murderer for us as Gabi suplexes Falco in the background, Reiner sniffs Historia's letter, and Ymir was in love with her rapist.

Coming away from it, I just can't help but think Eren took one of the worst possible choices, with the most annoying reasoning, and all the characters we know are practically grateful and thankful for it. Except the world is now in so much worse of a state than before with most of humanity killed, ecologically devastated, and somehow a version of the Lelouche ending that is even less plausible. I admit I was looking for a more explicit denunciation of fascism and that probably wasn't realistic nor necessarily deserved. But this feels almost like a tacit endorsement, almost saying that these events were justified.


It's not just the narrative, themes, plot, etc. but the execution of it all seemed really awful! The dialogue was, dare i say it, pretty drat cringeworthy. Especially when all the titans turned back to humans! That was some insanely bad writing (and I hope just a bad translation). And then it all comes to an end like this...

Minion of Freya
Jan 2, 2017


Wii Spawn Camper posted:

Can someone please explain the Bert thing because I donít seem to remember the event itís referencing and Iíll be damned if Iím going to go looking for it at the point.

Dina titan looked at Bert then walked right past him after he kicked in the wall. It was something we saw in a flashback that didn't really need to be explained.

Minion of Freya fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Apr 8, 2021

Wii Spawn Camper
Nov 25, 2005

ICU? MORE LIKE ICURSOUL

Minion of Freya posted:

Dina titan looked at Bert then walked right past him after he kicked in the wall. It was something we saw in a flashback that didn't really need to be explained.

So Eren used the Founding Titan and told her to go eat his mom instead, but from the future? Thatís actually how I read it but itís so dumb that I convinced myself I was wrong. Thanks!

Welp, like another goon said, Iím glad itís over.

hatty
Feb 28, 2011



Pork Pro

You are free

Hace
Feb 13, 2012

<<Mobius 1, Engage.>>


Strawberry Pyramid posted:

I mean, Ishiyama said he "wanted to write a story without villains" and the central theme was "the world is cruel, and it is beautiful." Given those two facts, I don't see how it could have ended up otherwise?

This kind of reminds me of The Last Jedi backlash (a movie I also really enjoyed), where people got mad but were really bad at articulating why they didn't like it. Some were just chuds, but others were upset all the throrycrafting they did between movies was rendered pointless.

In this case, I feel like people were really wound up by the "aot is fascist apologia" hot takes and wanted the story to end on a strong denunciation of fascism and... it didn't do that. It ended on the note it always did: the world is beautiful, people suck a lot, but we're gonna keep muddling through and surviving anyway.

lol

reitetsu
Sep 27, 2009

Should you find yourself here one day... In accordance with your crimes, you can rest assured I will give you the treatment you deserve.


hatty posted:

You are free

This should be the new thread title.

Because lol. Just lol.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008






Gravy Boat 2k

hatty posted:

You are free

We are all free now~

Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009

mão na bola

whalestory posted:

I don't think it really did a very good job at showing any of the beauty though. The cruelty was just orders of magnitude more immense that I just start furrowing my brow a bunch

The tone also seemed completely off. Eren killed a gigantic, enormous amount of people! What a man he was, thank you for becoming a mass murderer for us as Gabi suplexes Falco in the background, Reiner sniffs Historia's letter, and Ymir was in love with her rapist.

Coming away from it, I just can't help but think Eren took one of the worst possible choices, with the most annoying reasoning, and all the characters we know are practically grateful and thankful for it. Except the world is now in so much worse of a state than before with most of humanity killed, ecologically devastated, and somehow a version of the Lelouche ending that is even less plausible. I admit I was looking for a more explicit denunciation of fascism and that probably wasn't realistic nor necessarily deserved. But this feels almost like a tacit endorsement, almost saying that these events were justified.


It's not just the narrative, themes, plot, etc. but the execution of it all seemed really awful! The dialogue was, dare i say it, pretty drat cringeworthy. Especially when all the titans turned back to humans! That was some insanely bad writing (and I hope just a bad translation). And then it all comes to an end like this...

part of me feels that they were going for a emperor's naked tone, look at how dumb and stupid eren is, he didnt ever scored the loser. but I can't even charitably believe that.
that bird panel like lmao

Elijah Snow
Dec 10, 2006

some-something man

I dug the Ymir/Mikasa thing. They're both in terrible relationships, lifelong PTSD with physical consequences. I didn't think this finale excused any of the characters from anything. Everyone is fuckin stupid and traumatized. Very true to life. FIN

I wonder what he will do after this though, I heard something about running a spa or whatever?

re:denouncing fascism would they really know what that is? I got a feeling only Hange really took a deep look into that dark side of things. It reminded me of Hard to be a God, a book I can't shut up about a medieval society going straight fascist.

Elijah Snow fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Apr 8, 2021

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.


Strawberry Pyramid posted:

I mean, Ishiyama said he "wanted to write a story without villains" and the central theme was "the world is cruel, and it is beautiful." Given those two facts, I don't see how it could have ended up otherwise?

This kind of reminds me of The Last Jedi backlash (a movie I also really enjoyed), where people got mad but were really bad at articulating why they didn't like it. Some were just chuds, but others were upset all the throrycrafting they did between movies was rendered pointless.

In this case, I feel like people were really wound up by the "aot is fascist apologia" hot takes and wanted the story to end on a strong denunciation of fascism and... it didn't do that. It ended on the note it always did: the world is beautiful, people suck a lot, but we're gonna keep muddling through and surviving anyway.

I think a lot of people dislike this ending for the same reason a lot of people disliked the last jedi.

Its just not as smart as it thinks it is.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


Queering Wheel posted:

This is the camp I'm in. I started to have a bad feeling around this point, but brushed it off because I thought that everything up until then was put together really well. I didn't expect answers to every little thing, but I thought that most of the major stuff would be wrapped up nicely.

That's kind of the tragic thing, isn't it? Isayama has pulled off surprisingly good poo poo before, it really did seem like he could have been able to conclude things satisfactorily.

Too bad, huh?

The World Inferno
Nov 26, 2017





To defend his art style for a moment Ė†he draws kinetic energy super well. You really feel the motion and weight of Titan's, even in the early issues. For all the acrobatic shenanigans the fights have required, that's also handled well and it's not impossible to follow.

His faces have always been a little unstructured, but given the thrust of the story, it's easy enough to overlook.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

I dont think is trying to be smart, really. Not this chapter. It felt more like hastly wrapping it up to be done with

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.


The official translation for that line:

Armin: Eren... Thank you. You became a mass murderer for our sake... I promise I won't let this error go to waste.

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

Is a saint not entitled to the skin of his foot?






comedyblissoption posted:

Eren's Redemption Arc

comedyblissoption posted:

now that everyone is against Titan Hitler's Redemption Arc, I hope it happens

hatty
Feb 28, 2011



Pork Pro

In It For The Tank posted:

The official translation for that line:

Armin: Eren... Thank you. You became a mass murderer for our sake... I promise I won't let this error go to waste.

I wish this could become the thread title

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

serious gaylord posted:

I think a lot of people dislike this ending for the same reason a lot of people disliked the last jedi.

Its just not as smart as it thinks it is.
The Last Jedi ended with her rejecting her mass murdering bf though. Her killing him and then being real sad over his death was a Rise of Skywalker thing.

Oh wow, AoT was inspired by RoS. That's amazing.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



I'm actually reading Encyclopedia Britannica's entry on fascism.

Some points can be seen reflected on AoT, like nationalism, imperialism or revolutionary image. I think the inspiration comes from Ww2 and pre-ww2 Japan. Some of the most important ones aren't, because fascism irl was mostly an elite-driven conservative movement against marxism and democracy (see sub-entries like opposition to marxism, opposition to parliamentary democracy, conservative economic programs, opposition to cultural liberalism, corporatism, alleged equality of social status, anti-urbanism), and well, we haven't seen a hint of marxism in this setting, and we don't have any idea of the economic policy of Paradis or Marley?

This point
"Fascists favored military values such as courage, unquestioning obedience to authority, discipline, and physical strength"
made laugh, because to be honest, our protagonists are from the military so it could be seen as 'military values', but in reality they don't have a problem of rebelling against their superiors the moment they don't like the direction they are going for. It happened a few times, so AoT is almost the opposite. A fascist likes the military clear order, the hierarchy.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006





The World Inferno posted:

To defend his art style for a moment Ė†he draws kinetic energy super well.

Isayama's appeal as a shonen mangaka has always been that he has a truly tremendous grasp of gesture, movement, and force. All of his actual moments of action have these great, twisting gestures and movement lines that really sell the impact.

His weakness has always been with anything not involving this. He's gotten better than when the manga first started, but if you put a gun to my head and asked me to pick out post-timeskip Sasha, Mikasa, and Pieck from a lineup, I'd probably eat the bullet.

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Love and Anger


Things I like about the final chapter:

Eren having final conversations with his friends for them to remember after his death. That was a clever use of Founding that I wasn't expecting, good for exposition. (the content of the exposition was not necessarily good).

Explicitly showing Sasha's family and Niccolo are not on board with Jaegerist Paradis.

Titans are gone, absolutely had to happen.


aaaaannnd that might be it

bees x1000 fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Apr 8, 2021

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way


I like it a lot more when it was just 'oh poo poo monsters' and sword spider-manning around

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.

Taco Defender

Good ending to the story. I wouldn't mind a new manga to read but I don't want to read another terraformers or guyver so I guess I'm done with manga for awhile. It was a good decade.

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.

Taco Defender

I want to mention that the story of the titans started at a tree with ymir and ended with erin under a tree. Just noticing the cyclical nature of the story.

If you know of a thoughtful manga worth reading let me know.

hatty
Feb 28, 2011



Pork Pro

Golden Kamuy is one of my current favorite follows. Not really the same but it has plenty of mystery and human drama

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


Mikasa finally got what she wanted in the end

Head from Eren

In It For The Tank
Feb 17, 2011

But I've yet to figure out a better way to spend my time.


Captain Baal posted:

Mikasa finally got what she wanted in the end

Head from Eren

Mikasa walked from the Atlas Mountains to Madagascar through a continent that had been trampled flat.

She 100% ate his head en route.

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TheKingofSprings
Oct 9, 2012



More than anything I think Isayamaís mistake was running with ďthe entire world is hostile and wants to kill usĒ and then following through on that because drat at that point it seems doomed to devolve into a story about destroying the Other

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