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Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.

Elias_Maluco posted:

But I think the killing of 80% was way too much. Killing 80% of the world population while destroying (presumably) almost 80% of the planet ecosystem would be pretty much the end of the humanity, anyway. Might just go ahead and murder them all

Look, Eren is a dumb kid from a circa 18th century nation with no formal education. He doesn't know what an ecology is ok?!

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hatty
Feb 28, 2011



Pork Pro

Kid didnít even know what a monkey was

Office Pig
Aug 1, 2010

YAY!



Anime

Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012

h

I don't know if I buy editorial intervention though. Surely the author of a property this big has some amount of power to tell them to gently caress off.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Flesnolk posted:

I don't know if I buy editorial intervention though. Surely the author of a property this big has some amount of power to tell them to gently caress off.

Some, but it's variable. For example, the last chapters of Demon Slayer were better in the tankoban than they were in the original Jump release, because editorial wouldn't give Gotouge the room to flesh things out in the weekly. And that's the biggest manga in Japan.

Sure, you also get cases like Fujimoto and Rin where the writer is explicitly allowed to do whatever the hell he wants, but those are rare. Normally, there's a balance, with the writer's freedom depending on the relationship with editorial, and how much risk comes with a particular decision in terms of sales. Ultimately, editorial decides what runs in the magazine, and unless you get an editor who says "Oh, you scamp!" when you turn in your pages too late for any edits with no rough drafts to provide warning (Fujimoto and Rin again), they can just go "No, we aren't publishing this."

Beyond that, there's also light pressure, basically "Hey, I know you want to do X, but we think readers would like it better if you do Y. That okay?"

At minimum, we know that Isayama didn't get room for all the pages he wanted to do, since we're getting five more pages and an interview next month. Depending on what he says, and what those pages are, we'll probably have a much better view of how things went down.

MechaX
Nov 19, 2011

"Let's be positive! Let's start a fire!"


What I also think was a missed opportunity about the ending is that we never really find out what Eren told the other members of the Alliance either (well, Eren didn't talk to Pieck probably because he didn't really know her at all, and it doesn't seem like he spoke to Falco/Gabi either).

Like what in the gently caress did he tell Annie that got her broken up over his death after all of this nonsense, and man I would have loved to be a fly on the wall to see Eren's awkward conversation with Levi.

hatty
Feb 28, 2011



Pork Pro

For Levi Eren ust stands there while he gets beaten up and insulted

hatty fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Apr 10, 2021

Buzzsaw Roomba
Feb 13, 2012

Christ, what an asshole.


Mecca-Benghazi posted:

It's out on comixology and you can get it for free by signing up for a trial of comixology unlimited.

Hey thanks, I'll finally get the chance to see what all the fuss is about. It can't be that bad-

...

Eren... really was the coolest guy?

...

Ok. I know this has already been litigated over the past week, but... yeah. That final chapter... simply makes no sense. It doesn't feel true to the series at all.

Vanderdeath
Oct 1, 2005

I will confess,
I love this cultured hell that tests my youth.





DaveKap posted:

If you want to compare endings of things, I'll say this: Attack on Titan ended better than Legion and Mr. Robot.

Edit: Okay now imagine that Armin's face, instead of being that of a crying man, is actually just a flat face. Then everything he's saying is sarcastic. I like that idea.

Let's not get too hasty. At the very least, Mr. Robot's ending was congruent with its themes and story. Attack on Titan's ending feels like it was written by someone else entirely.

loving Armin thanking Eren for becoming a genocidal, world-ending monster is just mind-boggling. Guess Hange was completely wrong for not wanting to murder every other human on the planet.

Rime
Nov 2, 2011



Whelp. "This is gonna be revealed at the very last minute as a badly written Dune ripoff." Is certainly not where I saw things ending up, way back in those halcyon days of 2013.

DaveKap
Feb 5, 2006

Pickle: Inspected.




Vanderdeath posted:

Let's not get too hasty. At the very least, Mr. Robot's ending was congruent with its themes and story. Attack on Titan's ending feels like it was written by someone else entirely.
Sure, I agree with all of this, but pound for pound and fact for fact, Mr. Robot contradicted, missed, or weakly explained so many events in the series that it felt like a worse case of "subverting expectations for the sake of subverting expectations" than any angry YouTuber's explanation of The Last Jedi. I could fly right off into a full paragraph complaining but no I'm gonna stop now. AoT's ending makes me go "haha okay sure" and shrug. I wish Mr. Robot's ending could've made me feel that way.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

WELCOME TO THE DUNGEON

chiasaur11 posted:

Some, but it's variable. For example, the last chapters of Demon Slayer were better in the tankoban than they were in the original Jump release, because editorial wouldn't give Gotouge the room to flesh things out in the weekly. And that's the biggest manga in Japan.

Sure, you also get cases like Fujimoto and Rin where the writer is explicitly allowed to do whatever the hell he wants, but those are rare. Normally, there's a balance, with the writer's freedom depending on the relationship with editorial, and how much risk comes with a particular decision in terms of sales. Ultimately, editorial decides what runs in the magazine, and unless you get an editor who says "Oh, you scamp!" when you turn in your pages too late for any edits with no rough drafts to provide warning (Fujimoto and Rin again), they can just go "No, we aren't publishing this."
I know that Fujimoto is Fire Punch/Chainsaw Man, but who is this Rin that you speak of?

Boofy
Sep 11, 2001


so are we playing the tribute game or not

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Wark Say posted:

I know that Fujimoto is Fire Punch/Chainsaw Man, but who is this Rin that you speak of?

Shihei Rin, Fujimoto's editor. He also is the editor for Spy X Family. From interviews, he seems like one of the best.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

WELCOME TO THE DUNGEON

chiasaur11 posted:

Shihei Rin, Fujimoto's editor. He also is the editor for Spy X Family. From interviews, he seems like one of the best.
Oh, the infamous Lin! Gotchu, gotchu.

I think I read that it was apparently Lin that a) brought Tatsuya Endo to work with Fujimoto on Fire Punch as an assistant and also b) made Fujimoto aware that Gege Akutami was doing a story with a relatively similar premise (that being the just-as-incredibly-popular Jujutsu Kaisen), so yeah, I'd say that they're one of the best editors these dorks can have on their side.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




DaveKap posted:

AoT's ending makes me go "haha okay sure" and shrug. I wish Mr. Robot's ending could've made me feel that way.

Yeah itís weird I feel like I should be furious about the way it ended considering how much I enjoyed the recent 4th season. With bad anime you can usually check out the manga for the better version but here the source material has hosed up! But instead Iím like ďhaha, well that was badĒ and being entertained by people talking about how badly it faceplanted.

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

Is a saint not entitled to the skin of his foot?






it wouldve been cool if there was like a prominent 'man eren sure does suck' in that chapter I would think there might be someone left in the world that would think that instead of getting eldian poltergeists thumbs upping the mass genocide

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!



This last chapter basically makes :"Attack on Titan isn't fascism apologia" an indefensible position. Like, whether or not you personally believe it and have a good argument someone can just gesture to "thanks for becoming a mass murderer" and that's kind of the end of the discussion.

I thought this series was kind of pushing the edge of kind of being bad for a while but to completely fall apart like this on the home stretch would be impressive if it wasn't so depressing.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Remember, children... You brought this upon yourselves!


If some idiot was going to use that page as a gotcha they were going to spew other bullshit to still call it fascist regardless.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!



I mean it's a really good gotcha

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Admin explicitly calls the action an error right after thanking Eren for doing it. Which seems you know, like what Eren did was wrong but for the right reasons.

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

Ibram Gaunt posted:

If some idiot was going to use that page as a gotcha they were going to spew other bullshit to still call it fascist regardless.
Are they the idiot though?

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Remember, children... You brought this upon yourselves!


Nothing about the ending is fascist, just loving stupid.

Dias
Feb 20, 2011



I SURVIVED THE AWFUL BLOCK, AGDQ 2018



Ibram Gaunt posted:

Nothing about the ending is fascist, just loving stupid.


Pretty much, but I've seen goons misread the ending as "Paradis and the Eldians are in the right", so...

Tenzarin
Jul 24, 2007
.

Taco Defender

Reading old chapters like I do,

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Dias posted:

Pretty much, but I've seen goons misread the ending as "Paradis and the Eldians are in the right", so...

Yeah, that's undermined by the panel of Mr. Blouse, portrayed in general as the Voice of Wisdom, frowning and shaking his head about what's happening.

(Another thing that makes the ending feel suspicious for me, that. The Yeagerists winning doesn't quite match with the earlier setup... but it does feel like a total spite move that could be passed off as a logical narrative decision.)

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


chiasaur11 posted:

Yeah, that's undermined by the panel of Mr. Blouse, portrayed in general as the Voice of Wisdom, frowning and shaking his head about what's happening.

(Another thing that makes the ending feel suspicious for me, that. The Yeagerists winning doesn't quite match with the earlier setup... but it does feel like a total spite move that could be passed off as a logical narrative decision.)

Well it kind of makes total sense the Yeagerists would be in charge, as they were the only leadership group in Paradis that did not get turned into Titans and or die.

Also honestly if you take out the "thank you" and change nothing else I don't actually have any problems with the ending other then it probably could have used one more chapter on wrap up.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





MonsterEnvy posted:

Well it kind of makes total sense the Yeagerists would be in charge, as they were the only leadership group in Paradis that did not get turned into Titans and or die.

Their leadership was decapitated as well. The battle at the port took out most of their officers, including Floch. Basically, everyone in charge except Historia was dead, so things could fall out in a lot of ways, especially with Keith's scene with the cadets emphasizing that they should keep watchful for a real chance to unseat the Yeagerists, even if they wanted to fight against them right now.

I'm really, really curious about the interview and bonus pages supposedly due next month. I don't think they'll reveal or fix everything, but they might, like the interviews for Gundam over the years, reveal a lot about the process that brought us to the last chapter we got.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS


Lord_Magmar posted:

Admin explicitly calls the action an error right after thanking Eren for doing it. Which seems you know, like what Eren did was wrong but for the right reasons.

Yeah it's literally just "thank you for doing the worst thing possible for the sake of your friends and family, we'll make the best of your horrible decision"

MechaX
Nov 19, 2011

"Let's be positive! Let's start a fire!"


You do not thank people for committing genocide even when the genocide technically was meant for your benefit

Szmitten
Apr 26, 2008


To expand on the author/editor talk, it's less a matter of an editor "allowing/disallowing" the author to do things, and more of a general collaborative writing effort where the editor just so happens to also represent the publisher's standards and intentions while bringing the collective wisdom of decades of successful/failed manga. To a degree they're steering the manga from the very start.

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Hace
Feb 13, 2012

<<Mobius 1, Engage.>>


the anime nazis comitted mass genocide and then instated the 4th reich

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