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hatty
Feb 28, 2011



Pork Pro

Too bad Hange died, she was the only smart one left

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Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Hange's death really was kind of the signal that no truly happy ending was possible anymore, huh? Just kill the embodiment of both human hope and ingenuity before the final battle.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




No more Titans in the real world anymore though, at least in the afterlife she can study titans.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


The Notorious ZSB posted:

Long term the planet recovers, but not before the existing biodiversity is largely pushed into extinction including the humans. We're talking cosmic scale it might recover, there is no feasible path to saving the planet for the life that exists there now without them literally banding together to replant huge swaths of greenery. That probably wouldn't even do it because all the animal mechanisms required to support those greenery surviving and spreading are gone too.

If in fact he destroyed 80% of the trees, the world is hosed for a long long time and all anyone really has to look forward to is a slow wasting away especially for the ensuing generations. The rumbling given the consequences that were thrown out in the final chapter looks REALLY loving dumb since it cannot accomplish what he wants it to "setting his people free". He's just doomed them and the rest of humanity to extinction in a few generations barring massive technological advancement beyond anything shown as possible in the story.

As we continue to murder it irl, I've become a fan of discussing what actually kills and doesn't kill the planet, in-between domeposting.

I'll reiterate: destroying two-thirds of forests is bad, but not global ecological collapse bad. True mass extinctions begin in the ocean. Yes, a great deal of biomes will have been irrecoverably ravaged, and yes, entire regions will become uninhabitable for generations, but as far as humans are concerned the worst effects of both of these are mitigated by the fact that the people who'd inhabit them were also flattened in the process.

Can't have mass starvation if all the people who'd have starved are already loving dead.

Rapidly mowing down the Amazon for timber and unsustainable ranching? I sleep.
Expanding zones of aragonite undersaturation in the southern ocean? Thiamine deficiency detected across the trophic chain, and we have no idea what's causing it? We are so very hosed.

Mafic Rhyolite
Nov 7, 2020


Yeah the Earth can survive just fine after titans stomp 80% of the forests to smithereens. Assuming they don't have carbon dioxide concentration and microplastics like we do in real life the AoT Earth likely has a much longer time to live than we do lol

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!


Conspiratiorist posted:

As we continue to murder it irl, I've become a fan of discussing what actually kills and doesn't kill the planet, in-between domeposting.

I'll reiterate: destroying two-thirds of forests is bad, but not global ecological collapse bad. True mass extinctions begin in the ocean. Yes, a great deal of biomes will have been irrecoverably ravaged, and yes, entire regions will become uninhabitable for generations, but as far as humans are concerned the worst effects of both of these are mitigated by the fact that the people who'd inhabit them were also flattened in the process.

Can't have mass starvation if all the people who'd have starved are already loving dead.

Rapidly mowing down the Amazon for timber and unsustainable ranching? I sleep.
Expanding zones of aragonite undersaturation in the southern ocean? Thiamine deficiency detected across the trophic chain, and we have no idea what's causing it? We are so very hosed.

Homie they stomped the fuckin oceans to get to the land mass. Paradis is an island they have to go out through the ocean to reach any landmass.

Oceans have forests too, I think you could expand his statement to include coral & kelp etc in which case the extinction in the ocean is going to rapidly impact the life on land. I don't believe that the aquatic world pulled a Hithchiker's and magically said "thanks for the fish" and avoided getting stomped.

I'm assuming the biodiversity there is hosed too. Immediately no I don't think humanity collapses, but the trickle down effect of the oceans slowly dying if they aren't hosed along with the massive temperature and climate shifts that will come with the lost trees and grass etc...I appreciate the approach but that world is hosed for a long enough time that it's hard to see that version of humanity making it long enough to come out the other side.

Eventually the planet is fine, it will out do us all.

vvv way less about how many fish swam out of the way than their habitats being smooshed into oblivion just like the land surface

The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Apr 28, 2021

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


I'm confident that even after the Rumbling, AoT's world has a healthier ocean ecosystem than ours which has endured a century of trawl and deep sea fishing.

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

*gets hit by truck*


The Notorious ZSB posted:

The rumbling given the consequences that were thrown out in the final chapter looks REALLY loving dumb since it cannot accomplish what he wants it to "setting his people free". He's just doomed them and the rest of humanity to extinction in a few generations barring massive technological advancement beyond anything shown as possible in the story.
The rumbling is also just really super duper loving dumb from a power and narrative perspective. I'm giving the series some sort of pass for a magic slug being able to release a gas that causes humans to increase their mass 10,000% in a matter of seconds, any number of times, with seemingly no loss in energy, because it used to be a fascinating mystery. But being able to just, pull out of your rear end at will, a wall of unstoppable 5km high dudes thick and long enough to circle the entire earth? I had understood the rumbling to be just a maybe 100km wide wall of dudes aiming for specific locations, until that one comment that was like 'by the way this was a worldwide event'.

Also seconding the the-world-is-hosed view of this. Imagine if the modern day amazonas was suddenly nuked. We would be an order of magnitude more hosed from a climate perspective. And that's 4% of the world's land. The rumbling destroyed 80%, and also presumably flattened all mountains and destroyed all ground, plus as someone mentioned has the same effect underwater. For disasters, take your picks from loss of oxygen, massive carbondioxide spike, severe global food shortages due to disrupted wildlife, unexpected second-order events like toxic algae blooming on all the waste products of massive global death and killing majority of fish, deserts spreading across the remaining 20% of earth, climate change gone nuts, wild weather pattern changes due to land feature changes such as mountains being flattened, etc etc. It's not impossible for the species to survive but it will be impossible to maintain a civilized society and most humans will starve, drown or choke to death.

Bisse fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Apr 28, 2021

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


lmao 5km high

Tenkaris
Feb 10, 2006

Marcel, if you press that button...



And isnít the mass of Titans supposed to be really light for their size? I think I remember this being talked about by Hange in the first two seasons at some point but at the same time they donít seem to be lacking any momentum to show it. Armored Titan plows through the gate all the same.

If the mass was comically low, maybe the Rumble Titans would float?

Either way everything is dumb and every thought process trying to understand it feels bad

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

No, really: why are we reading strict scientific accuracy into the series on this one plot point? Why can we suspend our disbelief for humans instantly poofing into immortal giants, but can't take the text's word for it that humanity is able to rebuild after the Rumbling? I don't understand why this is different.

Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012

h

I think this is something to chalk up to author error, if only because I'm pretty sure Isayama didn't want the ending to be "welp, basically everything is dead and anything that isn't will be in ten years"

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

*gets hit by truck*


Also should mention that I forgot to read AoT after about the point where Eren gained titan powers. (it was super good and fun, it's just that life happened) At this point the series was just a fun Humans vs Large Zombies deal. And now saw the series is ending, and decided to check in and uh what uh wow uh

- the rumbling
- nazis running jew concentration camps
- time loops
- the whole ymir torture rape love thing what the fuuuck
- seeing all possible futures
- world hosed because dumb teenage love angst emotions

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Tenkaris posted:

And isnít the mass of Titans supposed to be really light for their size? I think I remember this being talked about by Hange in the first two seasons at some point but at the same time they donít seem to be lacking any momentum to show it. Armored Titan plows through the gate all the same.

If the mass was comically low, maybe the Rumble Titans would float?

Either way everything is dumb and every thought process trying to understand it feels bad

We actually see the Titans swimming. It's not something you have to speculate on.

It's a lovely ending, yes, but that doesn't mean the response has to be even shittier takes.

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


Pththya-lyi posted:

Because it sounds dramatic.

Isayama wouldn't be the first spec-fic writer to lack a sense of scale. I mean, take another grim and gritty franchise that AoT gets compared to a lot: Game of Thrones. How are all these lords able to keep thousands of soldiers in the field for months at a time without modern supply lines? How does humanity survive years of winter? How can the Night's Watch properly target attackers at the Wall from 700 feet up? How can huge dragons walk and fly under their own power?

Or take other famous franchises: How can mechas even walk around, let alone fight? Why can't Star Trek keep its warp speeds consistent? Shouldn't the wreckage of the second Death Star have rained down on the forest moon of Endor, devastating the Ewoks? (Thinking about this makes the final scene of Return of the Jedi ghoulish. Why are the Rebels kicking back and partying when they should be scrambling to save their allies from fiery death?)

Even within this franchise, there's a lot of scientific hand-waving. How can the Titans maintain their massive body weights and heal grievous wounds within minutes simply through...I don't know, photosynthesis? How do shifters make crystal instantly? How come everybody doesn't snap their spines every time they use ODM gear? We can accept these narrative facts without questioning them, even though they don't make scientific sense. Why are we assuming scientific realism for this one plot point?

This is a fair point to make and I get it. Other unrealistic stuff like titan magic and 3D gear gets glossed over, why make a fuss now? Isayama probably did only have "this sounds dramatic" as his reason to include that line about the forests.

But the whole ecology question could have been so easily avoided by not bringing that up at all, or by just not going so far on one throwaway line right at the end. And reducing the scale of the rumbling would probably make a lot of other things about the ending make more sense too. (why did most of the rest of the world get destroyed, but not Marley yet? Why are people giving such wishy-washy responses to such a massively apocalyptic genocide event, when maybe Eren coulda murdered "just" 20% of all humanity for his plan to maybe look like a less ridiculous tradeoff?)

So this dissatisfaction with the question about the forests really becomes symbolic of the wider problems with the ending overall.

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

GimmickMan posted:

There's a nonzero chance Isayama is going for a different kind of anthropocene mass extinction event only he isn't making it explicit because no one is even aware it could happen???

Flesnolk posted:

I think this is something to chalk up to author error, if only because I'm pretty sure Isayama didn't want the ending to be "welp, basically everything is dead and anything that isn't will be in ten years"

Bifauxnen posted:

But the whole ecology question could have been so easily avoided by not bringing that up at all, or by just not going so far on one throwaway line right at the end.
Hmmmm





I could believe that a mass extinction event was one of the intended themes of the series but ending changes left it as a vestigial mention at best

The United States fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Apr 28, 2021

Bisse
Jun 26, 2005

*gets hit by truck*


Pththya-lyi posted:

No, really: why are we reading strict scientific accuracy into the series on this one plot point? Why can we suspend our disbelief for humans instantly poofing into immortal giants, but can't take the text's word for it that humanity is able to rebuild after the Rumbling? I don't understand why this is different.
To give a bit of a personal answer, this series was very interesting from the start because there was one, and only one, supernatural element: The titans. Everything else was strictly bound to the laws of the real world. You didn't have magic, or anime powers, it was all just real people dealing with a supernatural threat in an otherwise believable situation with no real tools other than hookshots and little dinky swords. So for me the fun of the series was how the titans fit into an otherwise realistic world.

I realize at this point with futuresight, time loops and magic slugs, that this is no longer the case, but there's still that element to the series of real-world humans fighting a supernatural threat that's what makes it exciting. So casually mentioning that 80% of the world is ruined triggers all those thoughts of "wait, is this a real world or cartoon land".

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


Omg THAT'S how Isayama coulda fixed the ending, have the Rumbling be colossal T-Rex Titans then everyone would think its all way too cool to care about the details of humanity's genocide

I'm not entirely joking

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Pththya-lyi posted:

No, really: why are we reading strict scientific accuracy into the series on this one plot point? Why can we suspend our disbelief for humans instantly poofing into immortal giants, but can't take the text's word for it that humanity is able to rebuild after the Rumbling? I don't understand why this is different.

It's because it makes for a better ending if we assume Eren was full of poo poo and genocide on a global scale is actually bad.

See: The post above with the 3rd opening screencaps.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

Bifauxnen posted:

Omg THAT'S how Isayama coulda fixed the ending, have the Rumbling be colossal T-Rex Titans then everyone would think its all way too cool to care about the details of humanity's genocide

I'm not entirely joking

I ... I can't argue with that.

Bifauxnen
Aug 11, 2010

Resurrected
Living in a lighthouse
The lions and the lambs ain't sleeping yet


Bisse posted:

To give a bit of a personal answer, this series was very interesting from the start because there was one, and only one, supernatural element: The titans.

Ooh this said it a lot better than I did, this is a good post.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Bisse posted:

To give a bit of a personal answer, this series was very interesting from the start because there was one, and only one, supernatural element: The titans. Everything else was strictly bound to the laws of the real world.

3DMG

The Walls.

Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.

Bisse posted:

To give a bit of a personal answer, this series was very interesting from the start because there was one, and only one, supernatural element: The titans. Everything else was strictly bound to the laws of the real world. You didn't have magic, or anime powers, it was all just real people dealing with a supernatural threat in an otherwise believable situation with no real tools other than hookshots and little dinky swords. So for me the fun of the series was how the titans fit into an otherwise realistic world.

Tangential to your point but the hookshots were always as fantastical as the Titans tbf.


It has been years and i still don't understand the concept for these visuals.

Conspiratiorist posted:

3DMG

The Walls.

The walls were quickly explained to be Titans.

new kind of cat
May 8, 2007



The United States posted:

Hmmmm





I could believe that a mass extinction event was one of the intended themes of the series but ending changes left it as a vestigial mention at best

Monkey Trouble will always be the best titan.

Just love the way he casually strolls around, snatching horses. Too bad about Zeke, he should have stayed a monkey forever.

new kind of cat fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Apr 28, 2021

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020


Frionnel posted:

It has been years and i still don't understand the concept for these visuals.

All the shifter powers represent either a trait of Ymir's or of the worm's. In the case of the Beast, it's of the worm as being a progenitor of the Cambrian Explosion and the diversity of animal lifeforms from it. The Beast in general was rather confusing until the Worm/Ymir origin reveal and the reveal that past Beast titans were all sorts of animal forms.

It that sense, it makes sense from a somewhat cliched evolutionary fiction writing perspective that the last Beast titan was that of a great ape.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!




Frionnel posted:

Except they aren't extremely powerful, because they have no way of becoming titans by themselves. Any eldian who isn't a shifter is just a completely normal human being, until their free will and humanity is taken away by someone else, through titan serum and/or Zeke's scream. And once titanized not only they can only act on basic titan instinct, the process is completely irreversible unless they eat a shifter or a mystical ancient worm is killed through convoluted means.

They also aren't completely docile. A lot of them have internalized the prejudice against them, yes, but Grisha's Restorationist Movement shows that Marley has to actively crack down on Eldian dissent. But they can't use their superpowers to rise up in revolution.

The only thing that classifies as a "powerful slave warrior caste" is the shifters, and there's a grand total of 9 at the beginning of the series. Out of them, one is loyal to the head of Marley, one is the head of Paradis who is bound by a vow of non agression, and five who are brainwashed child soldiers, which leaves only two who are actually able to scheme against the system.

They are extremely powerful because of the shifters, yes, who we are repeatedly shown aren't really treated any better than regular Eldians. Plus in the process of raising new generations of shifters the Eldian units of Marley's military have got to be the people with the best combat experience in the country. So between them receiving elite warrior training, and the best of those elite warriors turning into living superweapons, the dynamic at play becomes nonsense. Yeah, there is the Eldian resistance, but it's extremely impotent. Judging by the state of Paradis, all it has really accomplished (aside from Grisha's rescue) is getting all of its members captured by Marleyan intelligence. So yeah, I'm willing to call the Eldians under Marley broadly docile as a result, they are not putting up meaningful resistance. It would have been more believable had the titan warriors and the warrior candidate units been shown to paradoxically be in a position of privilege despite being marginalised, so that we could buy that Marleyan society is making some effort to maintain the loyalty of its living nukes. Instead we are just told that there's something to gain by becoming honourary Marleyans and only ever shown that turning out to be bullshit.

Tenkaris
Feb 10, 2006

Marcel, if you press that button...



chiasaur11 posted:

We actually see the Titans swimming. It's not something you have to speculate on.

It's a lovely ending, yes, but that doesn't mean the response has to be even shittier takes.

Okay Iím sorry I guess I forgot about Titans swimming at some point? but that makes it a bad take somehow while at the same time everyone is talking about the rumbling as if the Titans walked on the sea floor? Are those takes also bad?

I guess I gotta go back and see the Titans swimming, where did it occur?, a lot of the last two yearsí chapters I caught on early scans where maybe I didnít parse the visuals correctly, idunno

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Tenkaris posted:

Okay Iím sorry I guess I forgot about Titans swimming at some point? but that makes it a bad take somehow while at the same time everyone is talking about the rumbling as if the Titans walked on the sea floor? Are those takes also bad?

I guess I gotta go back and see the Titans swimming, where did it occur?, a lot of the last two yearsí chapters I caught on early scans where maybe I didnít parse the visuals correctly, idunno

Back in 130, maybe 131, when they crushed the fleet. We see panels of swimming Titans getting blasted by boats.

I was more referring to all the arguments about human extinction from lack of trees going into obsessive detail, honestly. Didn't mean to sound like I was targeting you.

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!


Swimming or not once they get close to the coast as we saw they start walking. So sure plenty of deep ocean life is maybe fine, but bye bye reefs and kelp forests.

The more I think about it the more I would have enjoyed a completely bleak ending where Eren's entire answer was "humanity was a mistake, we can only break the cycle by removing ourselves from it entirely. enjoy the rest of your lives as you wait for extinction, i'm headed out first" The only freedom to be found is in death now, but noooooooooo

The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Apr 28, 2021

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


The Notorious ZSB posted:

Swimming or not once they get close to the coast as we saw they start walking. So sure plenty of deep ocean life is maybe fine, but bye bye reefs and kelp forests.

Marine ecosystems adjacent to cities the titans might've directly landed upon had long since been devastated.

It's peanuts.

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!


Conspiratiorist posted:

Marine ecosystems adjacent to cities the titans might've directly landed upon had long since been devastated.

It's peanuts.

The world of AoT is basically right on the back end of the industrial revolution. I guess maybe, but there is plenty of coastline around THE WORLD that likely hasn't been ruined and developed yet. My point is swimming titans doesn't absolve the ocean from having been damaged.

It's a dumb debate, but it's spawned from the poo poo writing in a poo poo finale so there you have it.

Also amazingly those things aren't IMMEDIATELY ruined by humans being near by them see a ton of the Cali coast and until global warming killed the Great Barrier Reef that one too. Humanity does do a number on the ecology of the planet but even we haven't managed what was thrown out in the last chapter which is magnitudes beyond the damage we've done to our planet.

The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Apr 28, 2021

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Oh.

Oh, I get it now.

You're thinking that the titans spread outwards from Paradis, like a single marching wall fully encircling the globe, including their traversal across the oceans.

Yes, I can see why you'd reach those conclusions, if that's what you're thinking happened.

Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012

h

The Notorious ZSB posted:

Swimming or not once they get close to the coast as we saw they start walking. So sure plenty of deep ocean life is maybe fine, but bye bye reefs and kelp forests.

The more I think about it the more I would have enjoyed a completely bleak ending where Eren's entire answer was "humanity was a mistake, we can only break the cycle by removing ourselves from it entirely. enjoy the rest of your lives as you wait for extinction, i'm headed out first" The only freedom to be found is in death now, but noooooooooo

That's just the state of the real world though

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

The Notorious ZSB posted:

Swimming or not once they get close to the coast as we saw they start walking. So sure plenty of deep ocean life is maybe fine, but bye bye reefs and kelp forests.

The more I think about it the more I would have enjoyed a completely bleak ending where Eren's entire answer was "humanity was a mistake, we can only break the cycle by removing ourselves from it entirely. enjoy the rest of your lives as you wait for extinction, i'm headed out first" The only freedom to be found is in death now, but noooooooooo
Hmmm... thinking about the interview saying the ending was originally going to be more like The Mist movie, but it was changed, I'm considering that it would have been more like what you described.

Perhaps something like both Zeke gets his Eldian Sterilization and Eren gets his rumbling mass extinction, both trying to "fix" the world in massive genocidal ways, but resulting in an ending where everyone is dead or unable to reproduce and massive ecological devastation means there's ultimately there's no point in surviving anyway.

And then he saw Guardians of the Galaxy and changed it to something... more hopeful

The Notorious ZSB
Apr 19, 2004

I SAID WE'RE NOT GONNA BE FUCKING SUCK THIS YEAR!!!


Conspiratiorist posted:

Oh.

Oh, I get it now.

You're thinking that the titans spread outwards from Paradis, like a single marching wall fully encircling the globe, including their traversal across the oceans.

Yes, I can see why you'd reach those conclusions, if that's what you're thinking happened.

That is the impression I had. I don't see how his claim could possibly be true otherwise. If it's only what we're literally shown on the pages, the rumbling barely got going. So his statement is either an obvious lie or a bunch of the rumbling happened off screen. I've been assuming that most of it has been happening off screen and we're seeing a fraction of a percent of it on the page.

MechaX
Nov 19, 2011

"Let's be positive! Let's start a fire!"


Pththya-lyi posted:

No, really: why are we reading strict scientific accuracy into the series on this one plot point? Why can we suspend our disbelief for humans instantly poofing into immortal giants, but can't take the text's word for it that humanity is able to rebuild after the Rumbling? I don't understand why this is different.

I mean, no one is disputing the fact that Marley specifically is able to rebuild because for some ungodly reason, Eren apparently chose to flatten the direct antagonistic nation to Paradis absolutely last.

The key question at this point is "how long can this possibly last" and I am not alone in the thought of "not long lmao"

Frionnel
May 7, 2010

Friends are what make testing worth it.

YF-23 posted:

They are extremely powerful because of the shifters, yes, who we are repeatedly shown aren't really treated any better than regular Eldians. Plus in the process of raising new generations of shifters the Eldian units of Marley's military have got to be the people with the best combat experience in the country. So between them receiving elite warrior training, and the best of those elite warriors turning into living superweapons, the dynamic at play becomes nonsense. Yeah, there is the Eldian resistance, but it's extremely impotent. Judging by the state of Paradis, all it has really accomplished (aside from Grisha's rescue) is getting all of its members captured by Marleyan intelligence. So yeah, I'm willing to call the Eldians under Marley broadly docile as a result, they are not putting up meaningful resistance. It would have been more believable had the titan warriors and the warrior candidate units been shown to paradoxically be in a position of privilege despite being marginalised, so that we could buy that Marleyan society is making some effort to maintain the loyalty of its living nukes. Instead we are just told that there's something to gain by becoming honourary Marleyans and only ever shown that turning out to be bullshit.

If you're limiting yourself to the shifters, then that leaves 5 (excluding the 4 shifters who have their own agendas) 10-ish year old child soldiers (at the beginning of the show, probably 20 at the end of the series) who have all been carefully indocrinated and probably selected from loyal families to begin with. Not the people most apt to have a complete understanding of their oppression, and the ones that start to understand realize that any disloyalty would result in death for their families and themselves.

Plus, there are things to gain from becoming honorary marleyans. I'm pretty sure Reiner mentions at some point that he could live outside of the internment zone if he wanted and they seem to be treated marginally better by Marleyans. Plus, the State does carefully maintain the illusion that eldians can be redeemed, that's the point of the Tybur family, and people really believe in that illusion. Yes, maybe the story could have elaborated more on this, but i think what's there is enough.

Also, it is an age where technology is catching up to Titans in power, so it's questionable what a single shifter could really achieve by openly rebelling before being taken down and eaten by the next warrior candidate.

There is a discussion to be had about AoT depicting a minority as actually able to become monsters because that can reflect actual real world racial prejudices. Which is why the story would always have to be really carefully with the depiction of eldians (And why i think the armbands were a disastrous use of imagery by Isayama, a lot of people understandably concluded that Eldians and Marleyans were specifically Jewish and Nazi analogues). But as far as the actual racial relationships in the story go, i think you're really missing the point here.

Frionnel fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Apr 29, 2021

McConnell
Feb 5, 2021


MechaX posted:

I mean, no one is disputing the fact that Marley specifically is able to rebuild because for some ungodly reason, Eren apparently chose to flatten the direct antagonistic nation to Paradis absolutely last.

The key question at this point is "how long can this possibly last" and I am not alone in the thought of "not long lmao"

Where is it mentioned in the story that Marley survived?

Staltran
Jan 3, 2013



Fallen Rib

The Notorious ZSB posted:

That is the impression I had. I don't see how his claim could possibly be true otherwise. If it's only what we're literally shown on the pages, the rumbling barely got going. So his statement is either an obvious lie or a bunch of the rumbling happened off screen. I've been assuming that most of it has been happening off screen and we're seeing a fraction of a percent of it on the page.

I think you're really overestimating how many wall titans there were. It's more likely they dispersed in groups to attack specific areas before moving on to the next settlement. If they just spread radially like that there'd be a huge distance between each titan pretty quickly.

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chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





McConnell posted:

Where is it mentioned in the story that Marley survived?

Well, their absolute last redoubt did, since that's where the final battle took place, but yeah. Rest of Marley got stomped flat. It's other countries that survived with varying levels of damage, since we saw Titans only reached them right as Armin and company attacked Eren.

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