Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 3805 days!


Good stuff this chapter, if a bit low-key. Let's hear it for Our Man Floch, the only named Eldian who understands what this war is really about and what the ordinary people deserve to know about it.

Also, surprisingly good points from Gabi about the sins we carry from our forefathers, and how some transgressions simply are too great to ever, ever be atoned for, much less forgiven, even generations later.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Buzzsaw Roomba
Feb 13, 2012

Christ, what an asshole.


Kerning Chameleon posted:

Good stuff this chapter, if a bit low-key. Let's hear it for Our Man Floch, the only named Eldian who understands what this war is really about and what the ordinary people deserve to know about it.

Also, surprisingly good points from Gabi about the sins we carry from our forefathers, and how some transgressions simply are too great to ever, ever be atoned for, much less forgiven, even generations later.

As a thoroughly indoctrinated child soldier, Gabi repeats Marley's propaganda of ancestral sin with conviction, but I didn't find myself persuaded, nor do I think we're meant to. When confronted with the actual suffering of Kaya and Kaya's mother, Gabi ultimately wasn't able to justify it.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010





Kerning Chameleon posted:

Good stuff this chapter, if a bit low-key. Let's hear it for Our Man Floch, the only named Eldian who understands what this war is really about and what the ordinary people deserve to know about it.

Also, surprisingly good points from Gabi about the sins we carry from our forefathers, and how some transgressions simply are too great to ever, ever be atoned for, much less forgiven, even generations later.

you're definitely missing the point

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 3805 days!


Buzzsaw Roomba posted:

As a thoroughly indoctrinated child soldier, Gabi repeats Marley's propaganda of ancestral sin with conviction, but I didn't find myself persuaded, nor do I think we're meant to. When confronted with the actual suffering of Kaya and Kaya's mother, Gabi ultimately wasn't able to justify it.

The flaw in her thinking is the implication that Marelian people or the peoples of any of the other nations in the world are any better.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Kerning Chameleon posted:

Good stuff this chapter, if a bit low-key. Let's hear it for Our Man Floch, the only named Eldian who understands what this war is really about and what the ordinary people deserve to know about it.

Also, surprisingly good points from Gabi about the sins we carry from our forefathers, and how some transgressions simply are too great to ever, ever be atoned for, much less forgiven, even generations later.

Kerning Chameleon posted:

The flaw in her thinking is the implication that Marelian people or the peoples of any of the other nations in the world are any better.

Man you are such an rear end in a top hat about this. Nothing about what you have said is correct.


You know what there is no real point in engaging you about this when this is these are the first posts you made in this thread.

Kerning Chameleon posted:

No, it's Japan. As I have been suspecting, this whole thing has been an ultra-nationalist screed. Japan is inside the walls, everything out is literally "the rest of the world".

Kerning Chameleon posted:

"Did they get to the basement yet" is going to be replaced with "Has Eren killed Armin yet" because there's literally no other way his arc can resolve now, with all the foreshadowing dropped.

Alternatively, "did they genocide the people outside the walls yet."


Like I don't get why you hate everyone in the story.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Sep 6, 2018

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 3805 days!


MonsterEnvy posted:

Man you are such an rear end in a top hat about this. Nothing about what you have said is correct.


You know what there is no real point in engaging you about this when this is these are the first posts you made in this thread.




Like I don't get why you hate everyone in the story.

That first post was pretty dumb in hindsight, yes. Second one is still spot on though, what with Armin's comments about possibly needing to eat Eren in 108, and how #TeamFlattenTheWorld is picking up steam both in and out of universe.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

Schwarzwald posted:

I was having that, too, but on a reload they all came in.

Ah yeah, had to restart imgur but it worked.

interesting that this will wrap around to them realizing they killed the saviour of the girl who helped them. I'm sure that's going to go over well (like a lead balloon) once they connect the dots.

Buzzsaw Roomba posted:

As a thoroughly indoctrinated child soldier, Gabi repeats Marley's propaganda of ancestral sin with conviction, but I didn't find myself persuaded, nor do I think we're meant to. When confronted with the actual suffering of Kaya and Kaya's mother, Gabi ultimately wasn't able to justify it.
Yeah, because there is no justifying sins of the father, ever. You don't blame a child born from rape because of the actions that led to their birth(though bad people still do), for example, and neither should you blame the ancestors of people who committed horrific atrocities.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 3805 days!


Captain Invictus posted:

Ah yeah, had to restart imgur but it worked.

interesting that this will wrap around to them realizing they killed the saviour of the girl who helped them. I'm sure that's going to go over well (like a lead balloon) once they connect the dots.

Yeah, because there is no justifying sins of the father, ever. You don't blame a child born from rape because of the actions that led to their birth(though bad people still do), for example, and neither should you blame the ancestors of people who committed horrific atrocities.

Yet if the perpetrators are long dead, who else but their descendants can bear both the reparations and retributions their victims (or their descendants) are due?

Or are the victims just to be forever denied their justice and revenge because "lol learn turn the other cheek, y'all"?

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Kerning Chameleon posted:

Yet if the perpetrators are long dead, who else but their descendants can bear both the reparations and retributions their victims (or their descendants) are due?

Or are the victims just to be forever denied their justice and revenge because "lol learn turn the other cheek, y'all"?

Their justice is gotten cause the perpetrators are already dead you idiot.

Blaming someone for something their ancestors did is the thought process of assholes.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Sep 6, 2018

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

Justice and revenge are simple concepts applied to complex situations. Life isn't black and white. Watch an anime, for crying out loud.


:shobon:

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Shinjobi posted:

Justice and revenge are simple concepts applied to complex situations. Life isn't black and white. Watch an anime, for crying out loud.


:shobon:

There is also a difference between Justice and Revenge. Namely you are not entitled to the later.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy


Kerning Chameleon posted:

Yet if the perpetrators are long dead, who else but their descendants can bear both the reparations and retributions their victims (or their descendants) are due?

Or are the victims just to be forever denied their justice and revenge because "lol learn turn the other cheek, y'all"?

This story is not comparable to the modern American racial climate and the idea of reparations, where this sentiment is indeed valid. Modern Eldians aren't benefiting from the actions of their past leadership. Some of them are an oppressed population being held as prisoners by another nation in ghettos, while the others were for 100 years being oppressed by descendants of the same royal family that perpetrated the initial atrocities. The only people alive today from that family are Historia and Zeke, and neither of them benefited from the past in the same way as the Reiss family did. They've both essentially been prisoners their whole lives themselves.

Their past victims -are- the ones in power now, and have been for a long time.

Edit: In fact, I'm willing to bet that Eldians were victimized by the old Eldian empire as well. I doubt that throwing mindless Titans at their enemies was a move invented by Marley, and Eldians are the only ones that can turn into Titans.

Viridiant fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Sep 6, 2018

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 3805 days!


MonsterEnvy posted:

There is also a difference between Justice and Revenge. Namely you are not entitled to the later.

Now there's something we'll just never agree on.

Viridiant posted:

This story is not comparable to the modern American racial climate and the idea of reparations, where this sentiment is indeed valid. Modern Eldians aren't benefiting from the actions of their past leadership. Some of them are an oppressed population being held as prisoners by another nation in ghettos, while the others were for 100 years being oppressed by descendants of the same royal family that perpetrated the initial atrocities. The only people alive today from that family are Historia and Zeke, and neither of them benefited from the past in the same way as the Reiss family did. They've both essentially been prisoners their whole lives themselves.

Their past victims -are- the ones in power now, and have been for a long time.

Edit: In fact, I'm willing to bet that Eldians were victimized by the old Eldian empire as well. I doubt that throwing mindless Titans at their enemies was a move invented by Marley, and Eldians are the only ones that can turn into Titans.

Interesting, so the people that all died in the Liberio attack, they are not owned a debt of blood for what the Paradisians did to them? And the Paradisians, are they not also still owed a huge blood debt for the loss of the first wall as a direct result of Marely military action, sanctioned by the Marelian general public?

Seems like there's plenty of modern day characters who consciously did horrible things that should be allowed to just "skate by" by this thread's logic because golly-gee, can't we all just get along?

Oh no wait, it's just the Marely who deserve to die, our heroes get a get-out-of-jail free card from the fans because they're the protagonists and thus can do no wrong.

Hell, this isn't even touching on the fact the real question this war is meant to answer once and for all is "who are the true heirs to the title of humanity"? Which I find especially interesting.

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy


Kerning Chameleon posted:

Now there's something we'll just never agree on.

Interesting, so the people that all died in the Liberio attack, they are not owned a debt of blood for what the Paradisians did to them? And the Paradisians, are they not also still owed a huge blood debt for the loss of the first wall as a direct result of Marely military action, sanctioned by the Marelian general public?

Seems like there's plenty of modern day characters who consciously did horrible things that should be allowed to just "skate by" by this thread's logic because golly-gee, can't we all just get along?

Oh no wait, it's just the Marely who deserve to die, our heroes get a get-out-of-jail free card from the fans because they're the protagonists and thus can do no wrong.

Hell, this isn't even touching on the fact the real question this war is meant to answer once and for all is "who are the true heirs to the title of humanity"? Which I find especially interesting.

I don't think anyone has said the protagonists can do no wrong and that all Marleyans deserve to die. If you could try to exaggerate what people are saying less, I think that would be great. Up to now the conversation seemed to be about the sins of the past, so that's all I addressed.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Yeah no one has said all Marelians deserve to die. And in the thread and in story, what Eren did is considered a bad thing.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


I get casual thread visitors replying to Kerning Chameleon but why are people who know what's up with him even engaging :confused:

He's only here to spread vitriol about every single character in the story, sometimes incoherently and sometimes in really creepy and detailed ways.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

Yeah KC is not posting in good faith. Please stop quoting him.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind etc etc

Captain Invictus fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Sep 6, 2018

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 3805 days!


We'll leave that alone for the time being and focus on happier things, like Kyoushi's sweet-rear end aircraft

Wonder what kinda payload that baby'll be able to drop on the next Marely city.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007




Kerning Chameleon posted:

Also, surprisingly good points from Gabi about the sins we carry from our forefathers, and how some transgressions simply are too great to ever, ever be atoned for, much less forgiven, even generations later.
The heart-wrenching tragedy of that scene is how obviously bad Gabi's arguments are at addressing the specific comparatively small personal tragedy she just learned of. It's an utterly certain worldview, shaped by her own abuse and internalized self loathing, being confronted with something incomprehensibly tragic and random and utterly contrary to the "justice" and "sin" she believes in.

Fake edit:

Captain Invictus posted:

Yeah KK is not posting in good faith. Please stop quoting him.
Sorry, my bad. It's just such an incredible misreading of an honestly pretty heavy handed and obvious but still good scene. I'm just :psyduck: here.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


Can we have him banned from the thread?

Cause he does this every time a chapter comes out. Even talking about how the plane must be used for bombing, despite that clearly not being the plan.

Sub Harrison
May 2, 2013



I really feel Gabi is going to be Eren's inheritor. The last 3 Attack Titans have all been chosen for their intense hatred towards the enemy and dreams of freedom for the Eldians, which Gabi is right on course for, although a more conscripted ideology.

I'm looking forward to how they handle the Uri-Kenny flashback in the anime. I think it captures the theme of the series where everyone's actions are driven by their own demons plunging them into chaos. In Eren and Gabi's case, their vice is their hatred towards the enemy. This series can only end tragically, but maybe Armin and Falco's dreams of mutual peace can bring about a more bittersweet ending.

Good chapter, though slow-a compared to the last few. It's interesting to see the majority of Paradis siding with Eren as the leader of the Eldians. Maybe this was part of Karl Fritz's reasoning to make the pact of passivation. Anyone who can control the Founder Titan's power inevitably leads the nation into war.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010





the author did say he wanted a more bittersweet ending now than the more pessimistic one he originally envisioned for the series, didn't he?

Viridiant
Nov 7, 2009

Big PP Energy


I'm honestly not a fan of how many people dislike Gabi (Mostly in other places, I haven't seen much of that here) Like, I get it. I know why. But this is a heavily indoctrinated child soldier we're talking about here, she's got more issues as a kid than I have now as an adult. Honestly I feel like if Gabi dies that'll be a pretty good indicator of the kind of ending we're going to get. If she makes it and is able to work past her hatred I think we're in for a less tragic ending.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

Fans are not happy they lost Sasha. Gabi has a giant potato of a mountain to climb before she can overcome this.


:qq:

ZepiaEltnamOberon
Oct 25, 2010


Yeah the Gabi hate is unreal.

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012


I honestly don't get it.We are talking about a brainwashed little girl who has suffered her entire life and made to be a child soldier who has no value to the people in charge except as a potential weapon. Hating her is stupid, even goddamn Eren acknowledges that in his talk with Reiner.

How can you blame someone who grew up being told something by adults who didn't know any better themselves on how the world was. This the first time she has ever been confronted on those views and immediately you see hesitation on her face when she has to question it even a little.As usual the internet never fails to disappoint with stupid or disgusting reactions.

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

eh, I don't think it's so much they hate gabi the character, they hate gabi the sasha-slayer.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


Gabi's situation honestly comes from having horse-like blinders put on for all her life. She was told to live this way "and this way only!" and now all of a sudden gets that whole worldview challenged and she's pretty obviously not emotionally ready to get that thrown in her face.

Also Kerning, please do me a solid: Cool it with the "eye for an eye" thing, mmmkay?

Gantolandon
Aug 19, 2012



Kerning Chameleon posted:

Interesting, so the people that all died in the Liberio attack, they are not owned a debt of blood for what the Paradisians did to them? And the Paradisians, are they not also still owed a huge blood debt for the loss of the first wall as a direct result of Marely military action, sanctioned by the Marelian general public?

"Blood debt"? Are you a time traveller from 800 AD Scandinavia? Can Eldians resolve this situation with a large enough wergild?

Wellwinds
Mar 20, 2010


Captain Invictus posted:

eh, I don't think it's so much they hate gabi the character, they hate gabi the sasha-slayer.

I've found her extremely tiresome to read up until now, but colliding with sasha's history might make it worthwhile

But even if you excuse her being nuts about eldians due to propaganda her intro to the story was gleefully committing a warcrime against Not Eldians. Religious level fervor (that she won't temper in the middle of enemy territory no less) with a nice blob of hypocrisy on top makes for a frustrating character

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012


Wellwinds posted:

I've found her extremely tiresome to read up until now, but colliding with sasha's history might make it worthwhile

But even if you excuse her being nuts about eldians due to propaganda her intro to the story was gleefully committing a warcrime against Not Eldians. Religious level fervor (that she won't temper in the middle of enemy territory no less) with a nice blob of hypocrisy on top makes for a frustrating character

Why on earth would she be frustrating, she is behaving exactly the way a character like her would behave in that situation. If it was written any other way she'd be a poorer character for it and her story arc would be far, far less interesting. She is the end result of a society who despises her kind and a family who are zealous about upholding those values. Reiners behaved the exact same way right up until Marcel died.

Green Tea Erotica
May 5, 2010

Anything you can do I can do BETTER


Gabi is a someone you feel bad for. She's an obvious parallel to Eren, who we also feel bad for at many points in the story. Someone with anger problems facing an enemy she's taught her whole life to hate. Imagine if the Titans started offering Eren a place to stay and something to eat. That's what Gabi is going through. She wants to hate these people but not a one is being the awful devil she thinks they should be.

Also Gabi getting bit had me dying. Never trust a horse!

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010





gabi and eren are definite parallels (or I guess it's more that gabi is an extension of reiner, who was the parallel to eren). the series starts with eren's easily understandable hatred for the mindless, cannibal titans but now that same kind of fervor has become uncomfortable when directed at other people

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012


As well it's fine for Gabi to hate Eren after several of her friends died directly from his rampage.

Sub Harrison
May 2, 2013



Gabi parallels Reiner well too, except she gets to see the truth of Paradis without murdering a million people.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Sub Harrison posted:

Gabi parallels Reiner well too, except she gets to see the truth of Paradis without murdering a million people.

The death of a million people is an statistic; the death of Sasha is an unforgivable sin.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010





that's the thing, really. gabi's vitriol is aimed at the main characters and some people just don't take that well

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


For clarification I'm fine with Gabi; I think she's both a good addition to the story and a well-handled character overall.

U-DO Burger
Nov 12, 2007






I really like the direction this series is going

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

cuntman.net
Mar 1, 2013



that horse is smug as hell

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply