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Gantolandon posted:Given that Hange's gender is ambiguous out in manga, it's perfectly acceptable to use "she". I used "they", because I frequently talk to people who are very passionate about LGBT+ issues and would most likely correct me if they only knew what this amine is about. Wait, you mean to tell me Odin is enby? I mean, sure, Gods and poo poo, but huh.
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Nov 20, 2019 18:22
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Farg posted:genocide guy probably isnt the good guy and will get beat up Maybe the plan is that he does get killed--probably by Mikasa--while the founder titan and this frees Eldia from the curse forever
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Nov 21, 2019 06:46
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Bilirubin posted:Maybe the plan is that he does get killed--probably by Mikasa--while the founder titan and this frees Eldia from the curse forever That doesn't stop Marley. The manga has made it clear that fascism isn't some logical conclusion in response to people with magic, and appeasement isn't an option. Marley needs to be destroyed.
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Nov 21, 2019 06:54
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I suspect Eren kills Mikasa and "See you later, Eren" are her dying words to him. To me, that jives better with Eren's tears in the first chapter. I feel like Eren wouldn't cry about his own death but would absolutely cry about killing Mikasa. I think Mikasa will confront Eren but can't bring herself to kill him. She can't win unless she fights but, in rebellion against Eren's orders, she won't fight. An existential victory but one that seals her fate.
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Nov 21, 2019 07:44
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Beefstew posted:That doesn't stop Marley. The manga has made it clear that fascism isn't some logical conclusion in response to people with magic, and appeasement isn't an option. Marley needs to be destroyed. Eren made it pretty clear to them that he’s not on his way to dismantle the Marley government and the systemic reasons for the suffering of Eldians but instead will stomp all over them, the mainland Eldians and the rest of the world like an angry lil boy.
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Nov 21, 2019 17:44
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TheHan posted:Eren made it pretty clear to them that he’s not on his way to dismantle the Marley government and the systemic reasons for the suffering of Eldians but instead will stomp all over them, the mainland Eldians and the rest of the world like an angry lil boy. That doesn't really contradict Beefstew's post, at least not in terms of Eren's perspective. He's stomping over all potential outside oppressors to his precious Paradisians. If Armin is deadset against Eren's plan, the only thing I can see him doing to get a decent outcome for his people is to eat Eren, grab Zeke, and still wipe out all military forces and and have himself become the new nuke button/last measure against the rest of the world. Because there's really no way out of getting out of some death and destruction at this point. iamsosmrt fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 18:57
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I'm going to entertain the idea that literally everyone is connected by the paths and just got Eren's message. Probably not, though.
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Nov 21, 2019 20:50
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If Merely's attacking force is destroyed then the problem is solved, and they can likely open up discussion with the rest of the world.
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Nov 21, 2019 23:02
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MonsterEnvy posted:If Merely's attacking force is destroyed then the problem is solved, and they can likely open up discussion with the rest of the world. Can they? I'm not sure how the other nations of the world can allow a wild card in the political world to have sole possession of weapons of mass destruction that only take one person going mad to set off. Like if somehow North Korea ended up the only nation with nuclear weapons I'm sure the world would just want to sit down and be friends with them, and not be constantly looking for ways to sabotage everything they were doing.
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Nov 21, 2019 23:33
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iamsosmrt posted:That doesn't really contradict Beefstew's post, at least not in terms of Eren's perspective. He's stomping over all potential outside oppressors to his precious Paradisians. Is that even still possible? Ymir is free now, Eren freed her. She don't have to follow the coordinate anymore. Or does she? She is doing the rumbling by her own will or because Eren commanded it? That part is not very clear to me
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Nov 21, 2019 23:35
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MonsterEnvy posted:If Merely's attacking force is destroyed then the problem is solved, and they can likely open up discussion with the rest of the world.
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Nov 22, 2019 23:08
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Captain Invictus posted:that is hopelessly naive especially after eren blew up a whole bunch of world leaders/diplomats Honestly speaking, I don't think it changed THAT much, said world leaders/diplomats WERE about to go with Tybur's plan of killing everyone on Paradis.
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Nov 22, 2019 23:18
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Captain Invictus posted:that is hopelessly naive especially after eren blew up a whole bunch of world leaders/diplomats Even before that, the rest of the world hated Eldians just as much as Marley. Eldia apparently had a massive, globe-spanning empire like Britain did during the height of colonialism.
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Nov 22, 2019 23:19
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Elias_Maluco posted:Is that even still possible? Ymir is free now, Eren freed her. She don't have to follow the coordinate anymore. Or does she? She is doing the rumbling by her own will or because Eren commanded it? That's the beauty of this story. You may very well be correct, but the world is being built as we read it. Perhaps she's completely free or perhaps he's still actually controlling her. I'm sure it'll be mind blowing, whatever's revealed. Schubalts posted:Even before that, the rest of the world hated Eldians just as much as Marley. Eldia apparently had a massive, globe-spanning empire like Britain did during the height of colonialism. Yeah, pretty much this... Which is why I'm not so sure Armin and Mikasa will do much to stop Eren, aside from maybe trying to convince him not to kill everyone off the island. And who knows, maybe the rumblers will act more as sloppy siege units that simply destroy all structures and big weapons rather than seek out individuals so a lot of people will be spared and have diminished lifestyle quality as opposed to loss of life.
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Nov 22, 2019 23:34
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haven't posted here but just wanna say im super stoked for Eren following through and obliterating the rest of the world. Also I think Ymir's probably gone, or at least gave Eren free use of paths. He gives every eldian a message, summons a massive dragon form and awakens all the titans. Eren is controversial, and sure, an agreement probably could be made. At the same time this decision isn't exactly OOC for him. It feels like everything has been leading up to that point, where he has that death metal album cover look on his face.
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Nov 23, 2019 00:53
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Aumanor posted:Honestly speaking, I don't think it changed THAT much, said world leaders/diplomats WERE about to go with Tybur's plan of killing everyone on Paradis. honestly, eren's not entirely wrong in his reasoning to wipe out the rest of humanity. the eldians are so thoroughly demonized that they will never be left alone, they will always be considered an eternal threat that must be eradicated or AT BEST exploited by everyone else. It will never stop, unless there are no others to continue the eradication campaigns.
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Nov 23, 2019 01:19
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Captain Invictus posted:honestly, eren's not entirely wrong in his reasoning to wipe out the rest of humanity. the eldians are so thoroughly demonized that they will never be left alone, they will always be considered an eternal threat that must be eradicated or AT BEST exploited by everyone else. It will never stop, unless there are no others to continue the eradication campaigns. Nah, the manga clearly shows that won't be enough. The people have Paradise have lived isolated from the rest of the world for hundreds of years, and during that time their society had plenty of exploitation and intolerance. Wiping out the rest of the world won't stop that.
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Nov 23, 2019 01:30
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I hope we see Annie waking up next chapter because of eren's broadcast over the paths.
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Nov 23, 2019 03:04
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Schwarzwald posted:Nah, the manga clearly shows that won't be enough. The people have Paradise have lived isolated from the rest of the world for hundreds of years, and during that time their society had plenty of exploitation and intolerance. Wiping out the rest of the world won't stop that. Paradis has only been closed off for around 100 years, but yes. Even their own people will exploit each other for personal gain.
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Nov 23, 2019 03:09
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Schwarzwald posted:Nah, the manga clearly shows that won't be enough. The people have Paradise have lived isolated from the rest of the world for hundreds of years, and during that time their society had plenty of exploitation and intolerance. Wiping out the rest of the world won't stop that. Still a better option than having everyone you’ve ever know become a victim of racial genocide.
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Nov 23, 2019 03:11
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yeah i agree having to deal with a cult-like fascist society helmed by Floch or some other stooge that will inevitably take root after the massive success of Eren Jaeger.. is still better than getting wiped out by a mega-coalition.
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Nov 23, 2019 04:01
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There are no other options than global genocide, states man who has tried zero diplomatic options, nuked an entire port city, and personally killed tons of foreign diplomats.
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Nov 23, 2019 07:00
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Sure, there was another option. It involved condemning Historia's child to ritualistically murder and devour their own mother when they turned 12, and for their own children to also kill them before they even made it to 25, and so on and so forth for multiple generations in the hopes that one day the rest of the world would stop treating Paradis as a scapegoat and they won't need to maintain a deterrence posture with titan WMDs anymore. Eren found this unacceptable, because he cares more about Historia than about the rest of the world.
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Nov 23, 2019 07:19
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Isn't the entire reason people are suddenly so interested in Paradis again because they're sitting on a large cache of resources that could be used to fuel newer weapons of war that are rendering Titans obsolete? Maybe use those resources for their own weapons so that they can be on a level playing field rather than the awful Historia thing? I mean there are more than two options here. Really weirded out how many people are embracing the genocide plan.
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Nov 23, 2019 07:29
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There's just no other way. They certainly weren't able to negotiate with the Not-Japanese just fine. Maybe cause some war weariness by defending successfully against a few assaults. Use propaganda to make most nations of the world realize that Marley has been roflstomping them with titans this whole time and they shouldn't be allies with them (not sure why everyone was on board with Marley so easily, probably bad writing). Nope the only solution is global genocide or keeping the royal line going indefinitely. In terms of there being no guarantee for being forever safe from the outside world, that's just the human condition. Anyone around you could snap at any moment and kill you for any reason. That doesn't mean you have carte blanche to kill everyone you see in case they might in the future decide to kill you. Eren didn't try to negotiate, the whole world was not represented at that propaganda event, and some diplomats hootin' and hollerin' for war isn't justification for declaring the death sentence for the rest of the human race. Y'all are hosed up and its crazy how easily you're going along with this.
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Nov 23, 2019 07:43
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I'm just here for the possible subversion of expectations. The raging shounen protagonist turning into a kidnapped princess multiple times and now Ultimate Titan Hitler is hilarious to me and extremely atypical of the genre. Your own morality doesn't play into this. You're along for the ride. A factor in Eren's thinking is that his time clock is rapidly running out and combining his will with the founding titan and royal blood is a once in history opportunity while a bunch of other titans like Zeke are actively trying to further plans that will ultimately genocide the eldians.
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Nov 23, 2019 08:27
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Captain Cappy posted:There's just no other way. They certainly weren't able to negotiate with the Not-Japanese just fine. Maybe cause some war weariness by defending successfully against a few assaults. Use propaganda to make most nations of the world realize that Marley has been roflstomping them with titans this whole time and they shouldn't be allies with them (not sure why everyone was on board with Marley so easily, probably bad writing). Nope the only solution is global genocide or keeping the royal line going indefinitely. Hey look, I’m trying to get into the Eren Mindset. *try to compromise* “Noo I don’t wanna do that, historia and our child will live like slaves, in constant fear of subversive activities like what was done previously. Also my most trusted friends have proven to be defeatist scum that will readily sell out our people for vague morality reasons” *breed historia like cattle to ensure a steady supply of royal blood is available?* “I don’t want to paint a target on her, and I will only be here for another 4 years or so. THIS SUCKS and is also hosed up!” *get visions that shake you to your core* *try to pep talk yourself into doing a genocide* Edit: also btw, not condoning his actions, just trying to explain a little. To many readers his current and future crimes are horrible and unacceptable. It’s 100% valid to feel that way, and imo sort of the point. Were Eren any more supported by the story it would feel a lot weaker than it currently is. Wild Horses fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 08:50
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The military was ready to have Historia obtain the Beast Titan as soon as her child was born. They even imply they'd have gone for it immediately had she not gotten pregnant, because they didn't trust Zeke nor his loyalists (and surprise, they weren't wrong to distrust them!). Eren spent 4 years trying to figure out a way to protect Paradis while sparing Historia, working under the constraints of Zeke's time limit, his own time limit, and that there was only so much political power available to him. Plus the pressure of visions of the future telling him a peaceful solution wouldn't work out, which came true over and over again. Now, you can criticize Eren for valuing the lives of a few people (Historia, her child, his friends) over the lives of the entire world, and if that's your thing you can also condemn him for not being smart enough to figure out a better way, but what is objectively false is accusing him of lack of trying and pretending he had more time available. Also reminder that he got all of this dropped onto his lap to make sense of at loving age 16. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 09:38
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If I remember the lesson correctly from Heaven's Feel, the correct choice to get the true ending is to be willing to burn the entire world down to prevent your friend from turning into a broodmare for national defense
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Nov 23, 2019 09:58
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Captain Cappy posted:There's just no other way. They certainly weren't able to negotiate with the Not-Japanese just fine. Maybe cause some war weariness by defending successfully against a few assaults. Use propaganda to make most nations of the world realize that Marley has been roflstomping them with titans this whole time and they shouldn't be allies with them (not sure why everyone was on board with Marley so easily, probably bad writing). Nope the only solution is global genocide or keeping the royal line going indefinitely. No one is saying they’re okay with it my dude. The story has just done a excellent job of explaining Eren’s state of mind and the circumstances surround the Eldians, so we know how he got to where he’s at. The story has never, ever portrayed what he’s trying to do as a good thing. Don’t be the guy who thinks discussing his actions and what we think of them in the context of the story as somehow us endorsing global genocide, because you know that’s not what anyone is doing.
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Nov 23, 2019 12:56
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Asuron posted:No one is saying they’re okay with it my dude. The story has just done a excellent job of explaining Eren’s state of mind and the circumstances surround the Eldians, so we know how he got to where he’s at. Yeah. Like I said above, someone like Armin of course would choose any other solution to not genocide the whole world. But Eren, I cant see he choosing anything but that But I dont think is accurate to call him "titan Hitler": is not like he wants to kill everyone because of racial or nacionalist reasons, he dont think they are inferior, or monsters, is the opposite: they are seen as the monsters, they are the ones hated for racial reasons. Is about survival, and revenge Eren "solution" is somewhat like a Samson Option edit: situation is complex and hard no matter how you approach it. Global genocide is extreme and very very bad, but we cant argue that the world really wants to kill all Eldians; at the same time, we cant deny that Eldians are really a global threat Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 13:25
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He is a nationalist though. Not his primary motivation by far but still.
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Nov 23, 2019 13:38
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Wild Horses posted:He is a nationalist though. Not his primary motivation by far but still. Not exactly, the way I see it. He is protecting his friends, his world
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Nov 23, 2019 13:41
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He invokes eldian right of existence and invites his tribe into the glorious struggle. Even if his motivations are primarily familial, he is in effect an icon of armed resistance for his nation. It feels like he doesn’t mind being idolized by Floch and the others.
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Nov 23, 2019 14:33
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Wild Horses posted:Even if his motivations are primarily familial, he is in effect an icon of armed resistance for his nation. Honestly? From the moment we've seen Eren working with the "jaegerist" I've suspected he's just using them as a means to an end, same as he did with Falco and as he tried with Zeke. Admittedly, no substantial confirmation for the theory yey, but no no outright contradiction, either, so I'm sticking to it for now. Especially since I was right about Zeke.
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Nov 23, 2019 17:06
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Yeah, I want to believe no one here actually agrees with genocide, but this story has done an amazing job of building this world and explaining the lovely circumstances that brought Eren to this point. I think people should try not to project their own knowledge and biases from the real life globalized world when considering this Titan universe, as specifically Eren and co. are not coming from remotely the same circumstances of any real life people. They haven't been raised knowing about a giant world outside of their hometown, of a greater society of which they should feel included. It's unclear how much political or sociological education they've ever received, but chances are that it's very low and very little that would touch on how to pursue diplomacy with foreign nations. Eren's also basically still a kid who's been thrust into an incredibly awful life and granted powers beyond anything normally conceivable. Also, it's not that the path towards global destruction was always the right one, but it's been steered towards this direction for a long time (since the time skip at least) and since Eren's attack on Marley, there's almost certainly no other choice between major destruction of their enemies and a self-enslaving/genocidal attempt at peace at the 11th hour. It would take some deus ex machina stuff to change the extremely cold hearts of this Titan world's denizens, which going by the spine monster thing that created titans, is a possibility.
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Nov 23, 2019 18:32
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Aumanor posted:Honestly? From the moment we've seen Eren working with the "jaegerist" I've suspected he's just using them as a means to an end, same as he did with Falco and as he tried with Zeke. Admittedly, no substantial confirmation for the theory yey, but no no outright contradiction, either, so I'm sticking to it for now. Especially since I was right about Zeke. Yeah but difference is zeke was an anti-natalist and a seriously self-hating guy. Guy had the opposite mentality of Eren and company. Our guys have turned into revanchist imperialists and that’s a logical conclusion. I don’t think Eren has any eldian supremacist views, but he is 100% aligned with Eldian interests over that of the rest of the world. Also floch is one of my favorite characters after the time skip. Guy turned into such a prick.
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Nov 23, 2019 22:31
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New chapter's out https://mangadex.org/chapter/761772/1
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Dec 5, 2019 18:43
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Oh!!!!! SHEEEES BAAAACK!!!
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Dec 5, 2019 18:57
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Gabi tying her hair back like Eren that time basically guarentees she will be the next Attack Titan.
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Dec 5, 2019 19:05
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