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Boofy
Sep 11, 2001


this is like performance art now. anyway hey. letís all go play the attack on titan tribute game.

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Asuron
Nov 27, 2012


If those spoilers are accurate... Is this what Isayama really wanted? I thought it might fix it a bit but it almost makes it worse

I just cannot reconcile this with the guy who wrote the Reiner/Eren basement talk, the Ymir flashback, everything he said about the cycle of violence with whatever this is

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




LOL @ the personal opinion of the leaker:

"I don't know what's the point of snk anymore, I couldn't even believe the leaks this time, everything is meaningless."

Me too, buddy.

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

Homora Gaykemi posted:

There's also meant to be stuff showing that Paradis is destroyed in the upcoming war and the Titans still existing

DamnitGannet
Apr 8, 2007



Asuron posted:

If those spoilers are accurate... Is this what Isayama really wanted? I thought it might fix it a bit but it almost makes it worse

I just cannot reconcile this with the guy who wrote the Reiner/Eren basement talk, the Ymir flashback, everything he said about the cycle of violence with whatever this is

yeah, im having a really hard time actually accepting that this is the same man that wrote so many great scenes. if these leaks are real then everything was for nothing lmao

Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012

h

I really hope Isayama gives some kind of exit interview or something, because everything I hear is utterly baffling and I'm forced to conclude that for some reason he's intentionally burning down his own work.

Rhonne
Feb 13, 2012

Do you want to know what we do to artists?

Man I can't wait for the anime to having to animate all this.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





Flesnolk posted:

I really hope Isayama gives some kind of exit interview or something, because everything I hear is utterly baffling and I'm forced to conclude that for some reason he's intentionally burning down his own work.

I'll want to see everything in context before I form a concrete verdict, but right now?

Definitely feels that way.

I'm also suspecting that Eren and Mikasa shipping is a major flashpoint for this whole clusterfuck. Looking at it, there's a ton of "here's your ship. Now choke on it, you bastards." to a lot of parts of this ending, like Mikasa kissing Eren's head, the comparisons to Ymir's horrible relationship with Karl, showing Mikasa moving on, making Eren return Mikasa's feelings out of nowhere in the most humiliating way...

It's one of the few things big enough that I can see management not budging on, while still being central enough that Isayama couldn't just change things a bit and just move forward.

Flesnolk
Apr 11, 2012

h

But what about stuff like "the titans are still around and Paradis got destroyed anyway, making the entire Rumbling arc pointless"?

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

Flesnolk posted:

But what about stuff like "the titans are still around and Paradis got destroyed anyway, making the entire Rumbling arc pointless"?
Making Eren the world's biggest fuckup sounds like what an author might do when they realize they created a fanbase that thinks and acts just like the Yeagerists

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Love and Anger


keep in mind that the extra pages donít necessarily all take place after the ending. that point could be part of what Eren shows Armin.

Elias_Maluco
Aug 23, 2007
I need to sleep

Seems more likely that it will be something like "see? all would have been much much worse if I havent killed 80% of humanity. genocide was good"

Thats seems bad by itself too, though

MechaX
Nov 19, 2011

"Let's be positive! Let's start a fire!"


Yeah writing yourself into a position where your options are ďjustify global genocideĒ and ďeverything really was meaningless despite what I said about the cycle of violence before, gg humanityĒ is not ideal

Iíll wait for the full chapter for the actual confirmation/context but... yikes

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Love and Anger


iím over here just hoping these pages arenít going to make things worse

LordMune
Nov 21, 2006

Helim needed to be invisible.


starting to think the guy who started going in real hard on holocaust imagery halfway through his "big zombies" plot might not be the sharpest storyteller in the shed

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


LordMune posted:

starting to think the guy who started going in real hard on holocaust imagery halfway through his "big zombies" plot might not be the sharpest storyteller in the shed
How about the readers who thought it was brilliant and insightful and that Eren had no choice?

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

bees x1000 posted:

keep in mind that the extra pages donít necessarily all take place after the ending. that point could be part of what Eren shows Armin.


Oh absolutely but the alternative is much funnier

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




It's sad, the anime thread was full of so many hyped people, every episode would have multiple exclaimations of what a genius this creator is, how this is the greatest show, what incisive commentary it is...

God if they only knew. Early next season wandering into the thread is gonna be like being a time traveller from the future who can't say anything.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



The only joy I can possibly get from this ending any more is the shared misery from anime onlys as I watch the hope fade from their eyes and disillusionment settles in.

e: That or imagining they'll actually change the ending to something that isn't poo poo but that would require me to get my hopes up again.

GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 18:56 on May 12, 2021

Teek
Aug 7, 2006

I can't wait to entertain you.


The anime has never been a one to one adaption. While they don't change much, they do leave out and tweak some things. It's entirely possible they will be able to salvage the manga into something fine. 90% of the manga material that will make up next season is basically solid. Seems easy enough they can adjust the remaining 10% to be decent by changing it or by simply expanding on it to have more nuance or meaning. Giving more to Historia, or in the finale more clearly showing the "heroes" not being happy with the Yaegerists being in control and what that means for the world, would go a long way towards showing it's clearly not a happy or good ending. I think the biggest point of contention will be the Armin finale dialogue, if you remove or adjust that, it would pull everything together much more clearly.

Teek fucked around with this message at 19:00 on May 12, 2021

Captain Invictus
Apr 5, 2005


Clever Betty

hopefully this time they remembered to include the DO NOT CONGRATULATE note in the script

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




Teek posted:

The anime has never been a one to one adaption. While they don't change much, they do leave out and tweak some things. It's entirely possible they will be able to salvage the manga into something fine. 90% of the manga material that will make up next season is basically solid. Seems easy enough they can adjust the remaining 10% to be decent by changing it or by simply expanding on it to have more nuance or meaning. Giving more to Historia, or in the finale more clearly showing the "heroes" not being happy with the Yaegerists being in control and what that means for the world, would go a long way towards showing it's clearly not a happy or good ending. I think the biggest point of contention will be the Armin finale dialogue, if you remove or adjust that, it would pull everything together much more clearly.

Yeah but are they really gonna do that ? Is there any indication editorial is freaked out enough by the negative response to the ending to ask the anime writers to tweak the ending? Isayama certaintly doesn't seem like he would take the chance to use the anime to fix anything, he seems like he just wants to burn the bridge further.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013



Captain Invictus posted:

hopefully this time they remembered to include the DO NOT CONGRATULATE note in the script
Instructions unclear, accidentally recreated Evangelion's TV ending.

Teek
Aug 7, 2006

I can't wait to entertain you.


But Isayama really isn't in charge of the anime, is he? I don't think he has that much editorial control over what goes on there. I'm not even familiar with any anime that the manga author had that much of a hand in. They might be listed as producers, but I don't think they are that heavy handed or influential. If an anime is that close to the original manga, seems like that's just a result of the anime crew wanting to do that, rather than a overriding directive from the original author.

And by that I mean, for those times when an author is brought on to consult or provide ideas for the anime adaption, they're still just doing that at the request of the anime crew, who were free to do their own thing.

LordMune
Nov 21, 2006

Helim needed to be invisible.


While I doubt Isayama is heavily involved with the anime adaptation, it's not unusual for manga authors to be. Some even write scripts for episodes.

Regardless, the notion that the anime would a) meaningfully change the ending and b) make it not bad, is patently absurd. There is exactly no reason to believe this.

Ryaomon
Mar 19, 2007

Yare yare daze...

LordMune posted:

Regardless, the notion that the anime would a) meaningfully change the ending and b) make it not bad, is patently absurd. There is exactly no reason to believe this.

stages of grief any% speedrun

Teek
Aug 7, 2006

I can't wait to entertain you.


LordMune posted:

Regardless, the notion that the anime would a) meaningfully change the ending and b) make it not bad, is patently absurd. There is exactly no reason to believe this.

Change for the better or just change? Because I think there are ample examples of anime completely botching their adaptations. And Iím not sure by what metric youíre judging something to be bad and then being changed. Because Iíve seen several anime that expand on a manga as it goes along, and a result, are also fleshing out the ending more. They get validly criticized for having filler, but theyíre adding their own mark on the material.

For series ends, it usually amounts to the anime writing their own wrap up. Which I think is being helped mitigated by distinct season breaks being a bigger norm, rather than shows being ongoing weeklies. Ideally that will help AOT here, because theyíll have half a year to plan out how they want to pace out the conclusion. So while AOT has never added a whole lot, itís never been that beholden to including everything from the manga, so Iím not sure why this is seen as a big leap of faith.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012





LordMune posted:

While I doubt Isayama is heavily involved with the anime adaptation, it's not unusual for manga authors to be. Some even write scripts for episodes.

Regardless, the notion that the anime would a) meaningfully change the ending and b) make it not bad, is patently absurd. There is exactly no reason to believe this.

There is video footage of Isayama talking to VAs for the anime and having them adjust how scenes play out, anime ED footage revealed some plot points years before the manga did, and he was supposed to be involved with some of the revisions to Uprising.

I think, at minimum, a few awkward bits like Armin thanking Eren for committing mass murder would be smoothed out, but the whole Mikasa thing... it really does look like there was conflict with editorial there, and I'm not sure how that would play out with more people in the mix.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




Teek posted:

For series ends, it usually amounts to the anime writing their own wrap up. Which I think is being helped mitigated by distinct season breaks being a bigger norm, rather than shows being ongoing weeklies. Ideally that will help AOT here, because theyíll have half a year to plan out how they want to pace out the conclusion. So while AOT has never added a whole lot, itís never been that beholden to including everything from the manga, so Iím not sure why this is seen as a big leap of faith.

Yeah I mean they might change stuff but there's no evidence that they'll alter the ending. I'm not sure editorial or Isayama think there's anything wrong with the ending.

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.


Can't believe Isayama is already making it worse.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Ccs posted:

Yeah but are they really gonna do that ? Is there any indication editorial is freaked out enough by the negative response to the ending to ask the anime writers to tweak the ending? Isayama certaintly doesn't seem like he would take the chance to use the anime to fix anything, he seems like he just wants to burn the bridge further.

Does the japanese fanbase even hate the ending? I can't tell, I haven't really heard of any rumbling, it's mainly the western fanbase that I've seen the outcry from.

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

Teek posted:

The anime has never been a one to one adaption. While they don't change much, they do leave out and tweak some things. It's entirely possible they will be able to salvage the manga into something fine. 90% of the manga material that will make up next season is basically solid. Seems easy enough they can adjust the remaining 10% to be decent by changing it or by simply expanding on it to have more nuance or meaning. Giving more to Historia, or in the finale more clearly showing the "heroes" not being happy with the Yaegerists being in control and what that means for the world, would go a long way towards showing it's clearly not a happy or good ending. I think the biggest point of contention will be the Armin finale dialogue, if you remove or adjust that, it would pull everything together much more clearly.
Yeah but we're talking about the anime where the biggest changes are:

1) Removing the extremely visible civilian collateral damage from Eren's apartment building transformation

2) Cutting the Kenny/outlaws/conspiracy arc to the bone, removing a good chunk of Historia's scenes

3) Giving Annie a blushing OH HO HO HO laugh right before she transforms

bees x1000
Jun 11, 2020

Love and Anger


Yeeeeaaaaah, the anime missing Historia scenes doesn't give me a lot of confidence that her character won't be left to rot this time around

Asuron
Nov 27, 2012


bees x1000 posted:

Yeeeeaaaaah, the anime missing Historia scenes doesn't give me a lot of confidence that her character won't be left to rot this time around

I still can't believe she got sidelined for the whole timeskip . The only speaking lines she had was in a flashback and her being pregnant was being built as important through both the story and framing of any scene she actually got to be in, until nope it was just one giant mislead.

Asuron fucked around with this message at 00:29 on May 13, 2021

Strawberry Pyramid
Dec 12, 2020

by Pragmatica


I love troll endings so much. They're like a gift that never stops giving.

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


The United States posted:

Yeah but we're talking about the anime where the biggest changes are:

1) Removing the extremely visible civilian collateral damage from Eren's apartment building transformation

2) Cutting the Kenny/outlaws/conspiracy arc to the bone, removing a good chunk of Historia's scenes

3) Giving Annie a blushing OH HO HO HO laugh right before she transforms



wait theres no kenny? gently caress the anime

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

mandatory lesbian posted:

wait theres no kenny? gently caress the anime

No, Kenny is in the show, it's just a lot of the content involving him got cut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbX3RuSLifU

The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

Catalina
May 20, 2008



Hot take, but the last arc is an attempt at an exploration of something thatís always been part of the story: an exploration of the human condition, and the strengths and weaknesses human ideologies have when it comes to survival; as well as how people justify their ideologies to themselves, and how they present them to other people to ďsellĒ others on joining their cause. What you get angry about reflects on who you are as a person, how you want to see changed in this world, and who exists that you hate the most.

I donít like it at all, in fact I was team ďbreak the cycle of violence and work towards- OH GOD WHAT ARE YOU DOING ď but after a month I suppose I can respect what the author was trying to do. Thatís not an excuse for what I find to be some of the most heinous poo poo in the last arc and the ending, but at least I think I can finally be free let go of the expectation that the ending was ever going to satisfy some kind of an emotional need for anyone, and instead functions as a hastily concluded Rorschach test by a person with a very developed sense of nihilism.

Anyway, if you want to read a better story about someone being trapped by their knowledge of timelines and struggling with alienation and the futility of not being able to stop certain things like death and war, read the original Dune books.

If you wanna read a very good story about people who have erased their past in an attempt to try and start over as humans, but coming to the realization that people are going to fall into some of the same self-destructive cycles that may end up killing all of humanity, then play Mother 3 That has a lot of the same themes and manages to have a very satisfying conclusion.

Catalina fucked around with this message at 05:11 on May 13, 2021

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The United States
Jul 18, 2004

Please grab the extinguisher


Melman v2

bees x1000 posted:

keep in mind that the extra pages donít necessarily all take place after the ending. that point could be part of what Eren shows Armin.

Elias_Maluco posted:

Seems more likely that it will be something like "see? all would have been much much worse if I havent killed 80% of humanity. genocide was good"

Thats seems bad by itself too, though

MechaX posted:

Yeah writing yourself into a position where your options are ďjustify global genocideĒ and ďeverything really was meaningless despite what I said about the cycle of violence before, gg humanityĒ is not ideal

Iíll wait for the full chapter for the actual confirmation/context but... yikes
Sounds like it's not part of what Eren shows Armin at all https://twitter.com/dp_cobra/status/1392444146464534534 so it isn't used to justify Eren but instead seems to indicate that in the long run his decisions were bad, which is something everyone here was thinking about as soon as 139 dropped.

Still rather a bit late even if that's how it comes across.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouZSLckCvgQ

The United States fucked around with this message at 06:24 on May 13, 2021

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