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That's just depressing. Way to have the entire series have been loving pointless.
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May 13, 2021 09:52
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It's kind've amazing that he took what was already a bad ending and somehow made it even worse. I just genuinely want to hear what he has to say on the last chapter at this point, these additions really make it feel like he wanted to burn the whole thing down
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May 13, 2021 10:14
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What's more likely: a successful author willfully nuking his work along with fan esteem and goodwill — due to editorial interference / [undefined reason] — or the author simply not telling the story you thought he was telling, with less skill than you thought he had?
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May 13, 2021 10:25
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LordMune posted:What's more likely: a successful author willfully nuking his work along with fan esteem and goodwill — due to editorial interference / [undefined reason] — or the author simply not telling the story you thought he was telling, with less skill than you thought he had? Honestly? Right now, it's looking like the nuking. Someone pitches a perfect game, a beanball hitting someone he's always had a grudge against has more than a whiff of intent. Could be wrong, but everything around the Mikasa pairing feels like, well, malicious compliance.
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May 13, 2021 11:03
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Yeah is weird Up to 138 I really trusted the author to wrap all this up in a satisfying manner, because well, the writing was good up to that point Like, the basement reveal was something I was certain it was going to be dumb and disappointing and it was amazing, really mind blowing and all. Than last loving chapter and what the hell is this
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May 13, 2021 11:59
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LordMune posted:What's more likely: a successful author willfully nuking his work along with fan esteem and goodwill — due to editorial interference / [undefined reason] — or the author simply not telling the story you thought he was telling, with less skill than you thought he had? The first? I mean if you can honestly look at the final chapter and then look at everything that came before it and say it’s even remotely consistent with the story told up until that point, I don’t think we read the same manga.
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May 13, 2021 12:06
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According to someone leaks I saw the shots of Mikasa with children at Eren's grave and Paradise being destroyed are a continuation of the dreamworld where she and Eren ran away which is why the Titans are still around. They also said that the main point of Ymir watching Mikasa is that she is seeing all this through the Paths while in the past to help her work up to not shielding the First King from the spear blow that killed her. So he dies and she goes off to live peacefully. Apparently it makes the Highschool AU. I don't really trust the last bit but imagine if it were true.
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May 13, 2021 12:37
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An Eren wakes up from a bad dream ending in modern day Tokyo would be loving amazing
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May 13, 2021 13:06
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Asuron posted:The first? I do not understand where this faith in the guy who thought it was a good idea to introduce Jewish ghettoes (but the Jews are Mindless or Genocidal Monsters, Ethnically) comes from. He can draw an action scene and write overly convoluted "actually I am the one standing behind you" twists, but nearly all themes and messaging hinged on the ending which, in turn, went into uncharted territories that he very visibly did not have the finesse required to successfully navigate.
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May 13, 2021 13:09
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LordMune posted:I do not understand where this faith in the guy who thought it was a good idea to introduce Jewish ghettoes (but the Jews are Mindless or Genocidal Monsters, Ethnically) comes from. He can draw an action scene and write overly convoluted "actually I am the one standing behind you" twists, but nearly all themes and messaging hinged on the ending which, in turn, went into uncharted territories that he very visibly did not have the finesse required to successfully navigate. Yeah, see I knew from your other posts here that you don’t argue in good faith and well, I got exactly what I expected I suppose.
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May 13, 2021 13:24
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I think that's a fair assessment, but I genuinely don't understand how there would be any good faith left. Nevermind to the point of inventing conspiracy theories about the production of the thing. I am curious.
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May 13, 2021 13:43
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LordMune posted:I think that's a fair assessment, but I genuinely don't understand how there would be any good faith left. Nevermind to the point of inventing conspiracy theories about the production of the thing. I am curious. I think it’s how abrupt it was. Any other time a series ruining bad ending happens in a long form story like this it’s obvious that it was going to poo poo for a while. For a recent famous example Game of Thrones started a downwards spiral somewhere around season 5. So season 8 ending the series in a garbage fire wasn’t that much a surprise to anyone paying attention. AoT on the other hand was going strong right till the end. Now I personally don’t believe in any of the conspiracy theories about the editors or it being bad on purpose or whatever. I think he just crashed the car on the final turn. But it definitely activates that paranoid part of your brain because of how unusual it is.
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May 13, 2021 14:05
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LordMune is right in pointing out that there was an obvious turning point with the basement reveal. As cool as zooming out on the map is as a story climax you can't just pretend it doesn't introduce a narrative-annihilating story element with the Jewish ghetto parallel. From that point onwards the quality of the story hinges largely on how much you wish it to be good, by hanging on to things like Gabi's character arc as something with wider implications as to the story's messaging and not just one character's personal storyline. That is, you can do that until the ending, which does relegate Gabi and Falco to simple deuteragonists. Since the basement reveal the quality of the story has been hinging on the assumption that there would be a course-correction down the line, the assumption that the historical parallelisms and ethno-nationalist messaging exist to be subverted, and holding that assumption, any dialogue that would seem to validate it starts to feel more important. So you see Gabi and Falco and tell youself "these are the kids that will finally break the cycle of violence", or Hange saying genocide is wrong and tell yourself "hah see I knew it", and you become blind to the possibility that the cycle of violence is being portrayed as an inevitability that Gabi and Falco and Hange are simply victims of. Then the ending comes out and it doesn't confirm those assumptions, and it turns out that this whole time the author was telling a different story than the one you were reading, and now we've got conspiracy theories about how editors meddled in at the last second to ruin the story that was running on their publication for some reason.
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May 13, 2021 14:30
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Asuron posted:The first?
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May 13, 2021 14:32
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Does anybody genuinely think that Eren's incestuous revelation or him killing his own mom makes sense given the whole journey until ch.138? Even if I were to agree that the quality of the rest of the story hinged on the ending sending the proper message (I don't, but let's say I do for the sake of argument), it doesn't change that suddenly Eren is a completely different character. There's character writing inconsistencies and plot holes aplenty that genuinely don't make it feel like you're reading the same story. You could argue Isayama just fumbled his way into success for twelve years and wasn't actually a good writer but instead he fooled all of us idiots into thinking characters like Annie, Jean, Gabi, etc. had nuance, but I think that's just as unlikely if not more as thinking that the sudden swerve into the shithole is intentional. Being bad at coding and messaging is not the same thing as being a bad character or plot writer and the problems of ch.139 are not just about coding and messaging but also about character and plot. This is why people are reasonably suspicious that something weird happened.
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May 13, 2021 18:31
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I always suspected Eren had feelings for Mikasa and so did about half or more of the readers. Mikasa was always set up to kill Eren and Armin was always set up to save the day (as terribly executed as this was). It wasn't a good ending but most of it didn't come out of nowhere.
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May 13, 2021 18:55
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its weird to me that people were reading this and actually rooting for their ships. shipping is fun, i ship characters all the time, but just lol at thinking this is the story of eren and historia, or eren and mikasa. some people actually read the ending and went 'finally, this proves that eren x mikasa is canon' like whaaaaat are you talking about?
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May 13, 2021 20:10
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What the ending really did was invalidate every doujin that put Eren with anyone because home boy never hosed.
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May 13, 2021 20:18
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here lies Eren('s head), he never scored
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May 13, 2021 20:44
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Welp, after thinking about the leaks, I’m thinking the revised ending is going to go something like this: The timeline we’ve been reading is a timeline where the Titans were ended. Both Ymir Fritz and Eren had a wish to free themselves and free humanity from the Titans, and working through Paths, Eren found the most Eren-like of solutions. And working through Paths, Ymir found practical experience in how to extract herself from her hosed-up relationship with King Fritz, creating a second timeline. Timeline 1 (the one we’ve been reading in the manga) is what continues on witch Mikasa and her children visiting. That bit with Paradis buying destroyed is either an alternate timeline Eren is showing Armin, or, probably more likely, showing that the best Eren was able to do was buy his friends some time to live happy long lives, before humanity goes back into the same cycles. There’s honestly a lot of stupidity there, but it’s gonna be cycles of mass murder and cycles of hatred because those are the THEMES and CHUGGA CHUGGA WHOO-OO plot.” Timeline 2 is where Ymir extracts herself from Fritz, and starts a timeline to a happier world. Eventually, that timeline’s Eren, Mikasa, and Armin are born into it, and have a chance to end up in better position, because of being born in a better world.  This is probably a set up for another Attack on Titan property where fans can throw their money at a happier story.Don’t ask me to explain the Mikasa and Eren thing, my read of the situation was that Mikasa was attracted to Eren, and Eren thought of her like a mom or sister, and was probably incapable of understanding romance on some level. Trying to put this all in order makes my head hurt, though I can respect if it’s a massive troll on Isayama’s part. I agree with the poster that says it really reads as malicious compliance with an order from the top down that the two of them had to be a supported couple. My read of the situation is that people want to keep making money from Attack on Titan and Isayama is burning as many bridges as he can so he’s not tied to that property for the rest of his life.
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May 13, 2021 21:19
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I still like AoT up to chapter 138, but let's be real, the chances of a revised ending are veeeery slim.
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May 13, 2021 21:33
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TheKirbs posted:According to someone leaks I saw the shots of Mikasa with children at Eren's grave and Paradise being destroyed are a continuation of the dreamworld where she and Eren ran away which is why the Titans are still around. TheKirbs posted:They also said that the main point of Ymir watching Mikasa is that she is seeing all this through the Paths while in the past to help her work up to not shielding the First King from the spear blow that killed her. So he dies and she goes off to live peacefully. Apparently it makes the Highschool AU.    
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May 13, 2021 21:44
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Oh...oh God. What if it forms a stable time loop where AoT Eren keeps trying to end the Titans, because the world is so horrible, and then AU High School Eren keeps trying to start the Titans because the world is so boring?
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May 13, 2021 21:58
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Catalina posted:Oh...oh God. What if it forms a stable time loop where AoT Eren keeps trying to end the Titans, because the world is so horrible, and then AU High School Eren keeps trying to start the Titans because the world is so boring? That would be awesome, a lot better than the ending we got
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May 13, 2021 22:37
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lol that the moral really is "everyone else in the world is the enemy, kill them all before they kill you"
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May 13, 2021 22:43
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If Eren did all this to get back to goth Mikasa I don't think we can really blame him anymore.
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May 14, 2021 01:21
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DamnitGannet posted:its weird to me that people were reading this and actually rooting for their ships. shipping is fun, i ship characters all the time, but just lol at thinking this is the story of eren and historia, or eren and mikasa. some people actually read the ending and went 'finally, this proves that eren x mikasa is canon' like whaaaaat are you talking about? A lot of the shipping around Historia was a combination of "this is a thematically satisfying mirror to Ymir's history, letting there be real resolution to the whole Titan thing", "this gives Eren something important enough for him to put the lives of his friends in jeopardy, even letting Sasha die to protect his family" and most of all "Seriously, there's got to be some reason Historia's been sidelined, and an arc with Eren at least gives her something to do that plays into her whole Worst Girl in the World speech". Seriously, Historia's role makes no sense if this wasn't a late game change.
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May 14, 2021 03:39
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Well someone in editorial was probably pushing for Mikasa and Eren, or at least now they’re capitalizing on it. https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2021-05-13/da-vinci-july-issue-to-include-eren-x-mikasa-romcom-collection/.172733
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May 14, 2021 04:29
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GimmickMan posted:Does anybody genuinely think that Eren's incestuous revelation or him killing his own mom makes sense given the whole journey until ch.138? He didn't kill his mother; rather, he refrained from intervening unlike he did with Berthold.
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May 15, 2021 04:45
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Ccs posted:Well someone in editorial was probably pushing for Mikasa and Eren, or at least now they’re capitalizing on it. It's been a pretty constant thing in interviews that Isayama has been the main voice opposing Eren and Mikasa, with things like "It's kind of pathetic, isn't it?", "Eren views her as more a naggy mom than a romantic prospect", and "I'm not a huge fan of childhood friend romance." while editors and interviewers tended to say more positive things or be surprised at his statements. So it makes sense that editorial would have a romcom collection in the July issue while Isayama has the additional eight pages show a guy who looks suspiciously like Jean hooked up with Mikasa, despite Eren pathetically saying he never wants her to move on. If you were trying to make an Eren and Mikasa relationship look bad, you wouldn't write a word in the last two chapters different. We won't know for a while, if ever, but it's interesting if that's the case that it's coming at the same time as Khara is taking legal action in response to massive fan backlash to the point of death threats for some shipping related decisions in Evangelion. Forcing the safe route might make for a worse manga, but it could help merch sales, and if you want to keep your biggest hit from turning into a fountain of controversy... well. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean I don't understand.
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May 15, 2021 05:42
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chiasaur11 posted:while Isayama has the additional eight pages show a guy who looks suspiciously like Jean hooked up with Mikasa making GBS threads on the Eren/Mikasa ship is all well and good and totally deserved, but what's he got against Cart and Horse 
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May 15, 2021 07:14
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Bifauxnen posted:making GBS threads on the Eren/Mikasa ship is all well and good and totally deserved, but what's he got against Cart and Horse If Isayama can't get his ship, nobody gets their ships.
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May 15, 2021 07:40
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Mikasa makes out with erens severed head, i cant see this as the author saying "what a healthy relationship"
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May 15, 2021 14:25
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You people keep talking about the ending canonizing Eren x Mikasa, but to me and in full context it just looks like Eren had never truly been romantically interested in her as such, yet despite not reciprocating those feelings deep down he still wanted to monopolize her affection. As Armin points out, that is absolutely pathetic. The revelation then resolves the question of whether he could ever tell the nature of Mikasa's feelings or if he was just so incredibly dense - and the answer is he could tell, and largely did nothing about it because he was content with that status quo. It cements how unhealthy the relationship was. But Eren truly wanted Mikasa to be happy, and for that move on, so he denies himself what he knows is a pathetic little wish, letting only Armin even know about it bundled as it was among his other sins in what baffles me people aren't reading as anything but his last confession. "Why, in his last moments, is Armin putting his dying best friend at ease rather than just telling him to gently caress off for all the trouble he caused?" Come the gently caress on.
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May 15, 2021 20:45
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Conspiratiorist posted:"Why, in his last moments, is Armin putting his dying best friend at ease rather than just telling him to gently caress off for all the trouble he caused?" Come the gently caress on. This is not what happens though. Armin remembers after Eren's death but the conversation happens before then, in the middle of an ongoing global genocide. Why is Armin putting him at ease?
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May 15, 2021 21:40
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mandatory lesbian posted:Mikasa makes out with erens severed head, i cant see this as the author saying "what a healthy relationship" Neither can I. And yet the magazine is running a "romantic comedy" piece on Eren and Mikasa. Can you see why I think that there was a major opinion gap between Isayama and editorial that lead to some of the problems with the ending?
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May 15, 2021 21:44
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LordMune posted:This is not what happens though. Armin remembers after Eren's death but the conversation happens before then, in the middle of an ongoing global genocide. Why is Armin putting him at ease? I thought it happened at the moment Eren died and Armin had got his memories back.
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May 16, 2021 04:01
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chiasaur11 posted:Neither can I. idk a lot of popular anime do what if spinoff stuff all the time
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May 16, 2021 04:20
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the copium levels in this thread are off the chart. why is it so hard to accept that this thing you liked ended poorly, take the L and move on? its a piece of art, not your whole identity
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May 16, 2021 20:35
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Its fun to talk about
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May 16, 2021 20:41
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