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EDIT: Oh my God, what a terrible page snipe. I feel like I've posted this somewhere before, but I guess it wasn't in this thread, so here I go again. The entire fascist/anti-fascist argument is fun and all, but both sides are basically reading their Western views of certain imagery into a very Japanese piece of fiction. The fact is, the average Japanese person (including manga authors) does not have a very firm cultural connection to the European theater in WW2, in the same way that most Westerners don't have a good connection to the crimes committed by the Japanese Imperial Army during the same war. To give an example on both sides of the coin... - French Canadian UFC fighter George St-Pierre came out for years wearing a karate gi with the Japanese Imperial War Flag on the back. This went on until a Korean MMA fighter finally penned him an open letter describing the things the Japanese did to Korea and explained that in Asia that flag is seen as offensive as the Swastika might be seen by Westerners. George St-Pierre immediately stopped wearing that gi after that. - Meanwhile in Asia (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FdKXiYnFbw) My point here is that some Japanese artists like the German aesthetic, and culturally they don't always recognize the deeper subtext of that aesthetic. I could write 1,000 words for Full Metal Alchemist here, but I think you get the point. The use of the armbands, etc. might have just come off as cool symbolism to use, while the connections to Jewish people and things like Blood Libel, etc, likely didn't really cross his mind in the same way as it would for someone who grew up reading a Western-centric version of WW2 history, and who is more aware of the anti-Semitic bullshit. I think Isayama wanted to kind of write a long-form essay on how he should feel as a modern Japanese citizen about the crimes committed by Japan against mainland Asia (Korea especially) during WW2. Does a person born after these crimes are committed owe something to the victims? Are the people who were harmed right to hate the descendants of the people that harmed them? Do the descendants of the people that were harmed have a right of grievance against people who never committed the crimes themselves? Does being ignorant of these crimes absolve a population of the crimes? He put a distance between himself and the subject matter by making the nations involved very foreign, and he used German/middle Europe themed aesthetics because that's kind of the thing it seems manga writers default to when they want to write about something that's maybe a little too close to home in the psyche of the author/readers. In the end Isayama kind of throws up his hands and says "I don't loving know, humans are messy and hosed up." So really, he doesn't give any kind of final lesson, and just seems to have wanted to get questions down on paper. Okay, feel free to flame me now.
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Nov 18, 2021 09:25
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The interesting question is "why do these trump-brained fascists fuckin' love AoT so much?" https://twitter.com/patriottakes/status/1461172544489230338 I mean sure there's the dehumanized zombiemonsters you can project your enemies onto, the importance of the WALL, the glorification of death, the fascist overthrow of a corrupt, weak, and illegitimate government who won't allow what needs to be done to be done... and even once the curtain is lifted on all of those things there remains an ever-present and never-ending all or nothing struggle for survival, an endless clash of civilizations involving a magical race strictly defined by a "one drop rule" of heritability. But that can't be all of it, right? There's gotta be something else, something more... Here's a theory, a game theory: Take the shounen protagonist hero's journey, one where they are arrayed against unstoppable forces and evil empires and overcome their enemies against all odds thanks to luck, pluck, determination, never giving up, and all the friends and comrades they made along the way... but have it turn out badly. What if all the chosen one prophecies of destiny and incessant training and devotion to their friends ends up toppling the evil empire, sure, but also unleashes unending fanaticism and universal war and death on a scale never before seen? Well then, you'd have Dune. Ok, so you don't want to step on Frank Herbert's toes there, you wanna switch things up, but keep the overall idea. So you this protagonist, he goes bad. He forsakes his friends, he takes those who love him for grants, he throws in his lot with assholes and murderers, the cruel and the merciless and the genocidal, he's a snake and a betrayer who doesn't have a shred of integrity or honor. Maybe he's infected with bad mind juice. Maybe he's trapped by his own prescience, obsessed with "paths" he must follow. Well that's Dune as well, and the concept has been done too, but as a wildly popular shounen series it's still pretty rare. So a lot of fans who are kids or teens (or adults with the maturity of children) don't conceive of this as a hellish heel turn, they're all in on his taking charge and showing leadership and his new hair and seeming maturity. He's become a hard man willing to make the hard decisions that no one else will. And if the protagonist does it, well, he's gotta have good reasons, it's gotta make sense, and it's surely justified. They'll follow him into hell, no questions asked. VROOM VROOM posted:It's such a bad translation that the only possible explanation besides "a fascist did it" is that they did not read the left panel at all and just guessed
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Nov 18, 2021 10:17
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if i were writing a wildly popular multimillion dollar media franchise spawning manga, i would simply research real life elements of my story before inserting them and publishing it
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Nov 18, 2021 10:18
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Paper Lion posted:if i were writing a wildly popular multimillion dollar media franchise spawning manga, i would simply research real life elements of my story before inserting them and publishing it I was going to say a thing but this is better put. Anyway, AoT is pretty fascist as an end product in both text and subtext (be that due to the death or incompetence of the author) and that this thread goes into a tailspin whenever this fact is brought up is a damning indictment of media literacy and analysis or whatever. The fact that you enjoy something shouldn't stop you from engaging with its themes.
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Nov 18, 2021 11:32
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Anonymous Zebra posted:EDIT: Oh my God, what a terrible page snipe. His longform essay ends up arguing Imperial Japan did nothing wrong, are the real victims of history, everyone in the world hates and wants to exterminate the Japanese just for being Japanese, and the only way to avoid it is to remilitarise/get nukes/exterminate them first. And then when Eren fails to kill them all "Japan" ends up destroyed just like he was afraid would happen, rendering everything for nothing
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Nov 18, 2021 12:33
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I agree Text and subtext certainly have a lot of problematic things, to say the least I enjoyed AoT until almost the very end, and I use to ridicule those fascist interpretations, but ever since Marley is revealed, is pretty hard to ignore it does opens the story to very uncomfortable interpretations. For example, the fact Eldians are kinda like nazi anti-semitic bullshit come true (Eldians are guilty of hideous past crimes, are running society from the background, are actually inhuman monsters etc). And the ending dont help much either, bad translations or not Also, I dont think anyone here is calling anyone else a nazi, people dont need to get so defensive Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 12:43
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I don't think anyone will actually argue that AoT is problematic, because it absolutely is, they're arguing whether it's fascist which is a different discussion entirely and much more nuanced than that, because while I think we can all agree that AoT is no Dune, it also is no Birth of a Nation. But also the ending loving sucks so why would I want to waste my time with a nuanced discussion of it? I will be frank here: This discussion makes me uncomfortable because, as someone from a third world country, it's pretty worrying to see a bunch of westerners, who are primarily from the US, trying to impose a reading based on their own cultural values on a comic written by and for foreigners. There is a lot that Isayama did wrong even taking cultural differences and authorial intent into account, but the enthusiasm with which some people just want to brand AoT as Fascist as if it were some binary yes/no question, regardless of intent and context, isn't as woke as they think it is.
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Nov 18, 2021 18:21
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The thing that constantly blew me away about the thread was how many people believed that a.) Eren's genocide should have been complete and b.) Eren was using historia as his own incubator to secure the royal lineage for his own genes and cucked the farmer. Then they'd paste the same three pages in the manga over and over that was supposed to prove Eren didnt like Mikasa. When the ending happened the (still existing btw) theory was that Isayama's editors "made him chicken out". Like their contention with the manga is that eren only did half a genocide and historia's baby has bad genes, and that this is STILL the proper reading but the editors ruined it.
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Nov 18, 2021 18:28
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yes the manga about how much war sucks rear end for everybody involved is actually just a fascist masterwork just like the slime isekai anime is literal christopher colombus forgiveness UnderFreddy fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Nov 18, 2021 |
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Nov 18, 2021 18:44
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UnderFreddy posted:just like the slime isekai anime is literal christopher colombus forgivance
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Nov 18, 2021 19:13
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GimmickMan posted:I don't think anyone will actually argue that AoT is problematic, because it absolutely is, they're arguing whether it's fascist which is a different discussion entirely and much more nuanced than that, because while I think we can all agree that AoT is no Dune, it also is no Birth of a Nation. But also the ending loving sucks so why would I want to waste my time with a nuanced discussion of it? This is pretty much how I feel. Isayama absolutely hosed up in multiple ways, and I believe that's because he didn't understand the impact some of his setting and plot elements would have on at least part of his audience. But saying "it's fascist" is overly reductive.
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Nov 18, 2021 20:01
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Grouchio posted:I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate people who argue this lmao no way, is that a real thing people argue about? i had no idea the slime anime had such discourse.
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Nov 19, 2021 09:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igq6TKagpUQ
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Nov 20, 2021 06:44
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DamnitGannet posted:lmao no way, is that a real thing people argue about? i had no idea the slime anime had such discourse. People spending months talking about how Slime is the only "woke" isekai led to alot of pushback, often times to an exaggerated extreme.
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Nov 20, 2021 16:31
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Paper Lion posted:if i were writing a wildly popular multimillion dollar media franchise spawning manga, i would simply research real life elements of my story before inserting them and publishing it Good for you. I wouldnt have because I enjoy story telling and character development and drawing manga and not research. Let along historic research. It doesnt mean that Im a fascist nor it means that Im forbidden from still using elements of history on what I choose to write. Whether AoT is fascist or not is debatable at best, and outright accusing a foreign writer as fascist without any proof but your own interpretation of their work is slander. Im not saying you personally about this, Im not following who said what in this thread, but in general. Putting that aside and bringing this thread into a different direction; another trailer is out and the release date has been announced for the 9 January. Ive been rewatching the anime in preparation for it and Im really looking forward to the anime and seeing if anything changes from the manga of if Ill feel any different about it after watching the show. Heres to hoping that yams has been reading and is willing to make a few changes or at least address some of the points fans have been asking about. I was really doubtful of the story once the mind-wipe came out, and pretty convinced it was going to be unsatisfactory once the Paths going into the past chapters were released but Im really hoping well get a glimpse of how this was all meant to work in yams mind because holy crap what a clusterfuck.
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Nov 24, 2021 14:56
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I dont think anybody here said AoT or the author is simply fascist. At least the majority arent. People are mostly saying there a some problematic stuff that allows fascist interpretations Also I dont get they people are talking like fascism and nazi imagery were completely alien to the author because he is japanese. I dont think you have to be american to frown at "thank you for you genocide" edit: personally I always defended AoT but after the armbands and all I started to feel the author was entering some dangerous waters and after the ending I joined the "who knows what the hell was he thinking" camp Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Nov 24, 2021 |
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Nov 24, 2021 16:37
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In this very page of the thread people are saying that not only is AoT fascist but that it is an indictment of media literacy that we all don't immediately agree on that. Like if you want to know why people have largely checked out of the conversation, me having to point this out is a pretty good indicator of the reason.
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Nov 24, 2021 18:49
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I liked the part where Sasha ate the bread
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Nov 24, 2021 19:26
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DamnitGannet posted:I liked the part where Sasha ate the bread
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Nov 24, 2021 20:37
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GimmickMan posted:In this very page of the thread people are saying that not only is AoT fascist but that it is an indictment of media literacy that we all don't immediately agree on that. Depiction vs. endorsement is fun! If a work is depicting something (e.g. a fascist world), large parts of the story itself becomes evidence of its own (and the author's) intent on a surface reading. And if what is being depicted is terrible enough, folks won't bother engaging beyond the surface or even complete the work to get the full picture (understandably). However, these folks often also sometimes feel emboldened to dismiss (read: dunk on) any opinion that strays from that interpretation (the evidence is all there!) as a sign that the person with the differing perspective is 1) defending/minimizing the theme because they enjoy the work 2) are purposefully being contrarian or 3) don't agree that what is being depicted is a bad thing. It also falls into the trap of assuming that a work has to have a specific point. A moral. A search for the author's intent, what they are trying to say. It assumes, too that their message is consistent or even coherent. That they are a good writer. Attack on Titan has a muddled, inconsistent message with problematic imagery that leads itself to many interpretations of its intent. A lot of the incoherence came after the time skip. AoT became more a demonstration of sunk-cost fallacy for me than actual entertainment. Not Sons of Anarchy-level hate watching, but in a similar "trainwreck-but-I-can't-look-away" sort of way.
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Nov 24, 2021 22:43
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GimmickMan posted:In this very page of the thread people are saying that not only is AoT fascist but that it is an indictment of media literacy that we all don't immediately agree on that. Again its this. Its the same posters saying the same thing and at this point its clearly bait to argue a point they know is incorrect. Im not gonna waste the time to write a deep rebuttal that I and others have done multiple times in this thread, only for the same poster to come back pages later and say dont you think AoT is fascist, because i cant read whats actually being said kn the actual text for the umpteenth time.
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Nov 25, 2021 09:34
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Asuron posted:Again its this. Its the same posters saying the same thing and at this point its clearly bait to argue a point they know is incorrect. This is me and I genuinely don't know that the point is incorrect. At this point I'm assuming many feel attacked because they think a work they enjoy espousing a fascist perspective is a moral indictment of them as people, but it is not. Nor does authorial intent factor into it, it is what it is. I am, again, genuinely curious about how AoT can, just as easily and with just as much good faith, be critically read as not espousing a fundamentally fascist worldview. Let's skip past the selective glorification of the military and its political strongmen, the realization of real-life fascist propaganda casting ghettoed minorities as being simultaneously superhuman monsters and weak victims-in-waiting, the preoccupation with race and royalty, the portrayal of peaceniks as naοve failures, et cetera, and go straight for the conclusion. The protagonist, driven to genocide, crumbles and leaves his work incomplete. He gets a pat on the back from his buddy, and the cycle of war continues over presumably hundreds of years either because the protagonist didn't genocide hard enough, or because conflict is inevitable. (If there is a third reading please enlighten me, my impression is that AoT has dismantled most other perspectives over the course of its run.) Both options are pretty solidly Ur-Fascistic, so that's what we're left with: mostly-fascist action in a world operating on mostly-fascist principles. Fascism isn't necessarily "war and oppression is good," but frequently "war and oppression is inevitable." The latter observation can be made in a vacuum and not be fascist in and of itself, but AoT exists within the context of the rest of AoT. Is it a call to arms to right-wing extremists and proof positive that its author is a nazi? No. Is it propaganda? Probably not intended as such. Is it fascist? Yes. If there's a way to epically destroy this reading with facts and logic* I suppose I will soon be made aware that the aforementioned argued point is incorrect after all. Until then AoT will continue to be a pretty singular thing to me I can't say I like it per se, but it certainly went places: you won't catch me ontological ideology-posting in the Naruto thread. * without dipping into isolated events not supported by the themes of the work or appealing to authorial intent or circumstance, I should say.
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Nov 25, 2021 15:06
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even if anyone replied to you with their disagreements on the subject, youd just dip out of the thread until someone brings up the subject again, for you to again piss out this opinion. Just like every other time.
UnderFreddy fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Nov 25, 2021 |
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Nov 25, 2021 15:41
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UnderFreddy posted:even if anyone replied to you with their disagreements on the subject, youd just dip out of the thread until someone brings up the subject again, for you piss out this opinion. Just like every other time. It's true that few actually engage, and I engage with even fewer in turn. If enough people say nuh-uh loudly and defensively enough maybe I'll lose interest for good, eventually.
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Nov 25, 2021 16:06
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LordMune posted:The protagonist, driven to genocide, crumbles and leaves his work incomplete. He gets a pat on the back from his buddy, and the cycle of war continues over presumably hundreds of years either because the protagonist didn't genocide hard enough, or because conflict is inevitable. (If there is a third reading please enlighten me, my impression is that AoT has dismantled most other perspectives over the course of its run.) Both options are pretty solidly Ur-Fascistic, so that's what we're left with: mostly-fascist action in a world operating on mostly-fascist principles. Fascism isn't necessarily "war and oppression is good," but frequently "war and oppression is inevitable." The latter observation can be made in a vacuum and not be fascist in and of itself, but AoT exists within the context of the rest of AoT. "Conflict is inevitable" is not Ur-Fascistic. That's an axiom of basically every ideology outside of weird eschatological cults and End of History liberalism that even Fukuyama doesn't believe. More to the point, you can't say "lets skip past everything" and then conclude with "this thing which I concede is not fascist on its own becomes fascist when read in the context of everything I skipped past." The things you skipped past are the manga portraying fascism. You're doing a thing where you think this portrayal is positive because you read the ending as being pro-fascist, and then saying that the ending should be read as pro-fascist because it exist in the context of a manga that portrays fascism positively. It's circular reasoning, and it falls apart if you believe the whole thing with the main cast being child soldiers is bad, actually.
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Nov 25, 2021 18:30
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Schwarzwald posted:"Conflict is inevitable" is not Ur-Fascistic. That's an axiom of basically every ideology outside of weird eschatological cults and End of History liberalism that even Fukuyama doesn't believe. To take this in reverse order, I don't think I've called the manga pro-fascist (but there's probably a careless post in this thread that says otherwise), just fascist. If I'm coming across as equating portrayal with endorsement then I'll try to do better, that is not my view. What AoT does at almost every turn is present violent action as, if not the only option, then at least only viable option it's far from alone in this, but it conspicuously fails to present any kind of meaningful and consistent counter-thesis, which is actually deeply impressive considering the protagonist becomes the nominal villain. To be perfectly clear I am not demanding a message from AoT, just recognizing that it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and insisting that it is not a duck (or that child soldiers are a bad thing) is not supported by the thrust of the narrative. The author's complete capitulation in lieu of taking a stand is interesting and provocative, if not for the reasons he intended. To move further back, yeah that's my bad. I wasn't interested in relitigating those points and phrased myself poorly. Don't have much to say about the first point other than that an idea can exist across multiple schools of thought, and is of varying importance to those schools. EDIT: Maybe the question I really want answered is this: if not "fascist," what would be more accurate to call a work that depicts fascism, has essentially all sides in the conflict embrace genocide as necessary and justified with only minor disagreements on scale, and engages with overtly non-fascist ideas only in an effort to dismiss or dismantle them? LordMune fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Nov 25, 2021 |
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Nov 25, 2021 19:33
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You assume that media can have only one objective reading, which always supercedes the author's intent. This is an opinion you can have, but it is not a given truth. Death of the author is not the default way to read media, because context matters, and the person saying the message changes much of its meaning. A homeless person saying "I love capitalism." is not the same as a CEO saying it. Much of human communication is nonverbal, of which a large part (especially in media, which lacks the presence of the person sending the message entirely) is contextual. Don't you translate manga? You already know this! Or do you think every translation should be literal regardless of context? You play it down by using the meme "facts and logic" but you are clearly preoccupied with finding some kind of objective truth, free of personal biases, when your own reading is also subjective. Like, there can be wrong readings, sure, based on wrong facts and implausible interpretations... But the definition of a plausible interpretation is also subjective, that's why there is discourse about interpretations at all. You shouldn't automatically dismiss different interpretations, because any reading made in good faith is something that can be learned from. It is one of the reasons I remain in this thread, because I have learned a lot (and picked up some books like the Broken Earth) from posts I don't fully agree with, but present interesting viewpoints. To search for objectivity in a subjective medium is a good value to have, but you're not going to find it by calling different opinions illiterate. You're going to need a more open mind than that. I will add a third reading of the ending, since you asked for one. This is tied to cultural context, because it's something that's come up a few times in this page, so might as well: Isayama (and his target audience) likely had a more buddhist upbringing than ours. That was probably was a factor in him choosing an ending in which suffering is inevitable and violence is cyclical. It may come across as nihilistic or cryptofascist but I think it's (a badly told) message of doing the best you can regardless of how pointless it may seem. If it is human nature to hate and to oppress, then we have to surpass human nature and help the next generations do the same. To quote Sasha's dad: "We have to bring children out of the forest."
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Nov 25, 2021 19:50
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I typed out a whole effortpost about how I've never seen anybody condemn the Avengers films as eco-fascism despite their failure to refute Thanos' Snap plan on any practical grounds, and isn't that interesting how the franchise most moviegoers seem to love gets a pass? But I don't want to waste my energy anymore
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Nov 25, 2021 19:53
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sorry, not interested in engaging at depth with someone who checked out from the work for half a decade, only coming back after smelling blood in the water to troll by needling people about "why, exactly" they didn't think it was all always bad
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Nov 25, 2021 19:54
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GimmickMan posted:You assume that media can have only one objective reading, which always supercedes the author's intent. Thanks for this post! It's good, and I regret not being able to give it the detailed reply it deserves, right now. To address my place in it, you're probably right in that I'm coming across as too... absolutist. I don't think my reading is necessarily the only valid one, but I do think it requires significantly less guesswork about authorial intent and so on; it irks me to see this thread reflexively dismiss it as invalid or even stupid or ill-intentioned. More than anything that is probably why I keep coming back to it maybe calling people "media illiterate" over it is a bit harsh, but I'm not sure what else to call that reflexive dismissal. Pththya-lyi posted:I typed out a whole effortpost about how I've never seen anybody condemn the Avengers films as eco-fascism despite their failure to refute Thanos' Snap plan on any practical grounds, and isn't that interesting how the franchise most moviegoers seem to love gets a pass? But I don't want to waste my energy anymore I dunno, I've seen them condemned for a variety of reasons. Not to mention that superheroes ubermensch as a fascist concept has been thoroughly explored and is hardly controversial today.  Conspiratiorist posted:sorry, not interested in engaging at depth with someone who checked out from the work for half a decade, only coming back after smelling blood in the water to troll by needling people about "why, exactly" they didn't think it was all always bad That's ok.
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Nov 25, 2021 20:18
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Pththya-lyi posted:I typed out a whole effortpost about how I've never seen anybody condemn the Avengers films as eco-fascism despite their failure to refute Thanos' Snap plan on any practical grounds, and isn't that interesting how the franchise most moviegoers seem to love gets a pass? But I don't want to waste my energy anymore Thanos' snap plan is very stupid, and I wish they had just kept his motive as "Loves Death and wants to kill half the universe to show his love"
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Nov 25, 2021 20:18
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MonsterEnvy posted:Thanos' snap plan is very stupid, and I wish they had just kept his motive as "Loves Death and wants to kill half the universe to show his love" Theres a reason they call him the Mad Titan
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Nov 25, 2021 20:21
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LordMune posted:To take this in reverse order, I don't think I've called the manga pro-fascist (but there's probably a careless post in this thread that says otherwise), just fascist. If I'm coming across as equating portrayal with endorsement then I'll try to do better, that is not my view. What AoT does at almost every turn is present violent action as, if not the only option, then at least only viable option it's far from alone in this, but it conspicuously fails to present any kind of meaningful and consistent counter-thesis, which is actually deeply impressive considering the protagonist becomes the nominal villain. That isn't what fascism is. LordMune posted:EDIT: Maybe the question I really want answered is this: if not "fascist," what would be more accurate to call a work that depicts fascism, has essentially all sides in the conflict embrace genocide as necessary and justified with only minor disagreements on scale, and engages with overtly non-fascist ideas only in an effort to dismiss or dismantle them? AOT doesn't have "essentially all sides in the conflict embrace genocide as necessary and justified." As soon as the larger conflict is revealed, the story almost exclusively follows on the group of people opposing genocide, and who at several points engage with and dismantle fascist ideas. That's Gabi's entire character arc. Pththya-lyi posted:I typed out a whole effortpost about how I've never seen anybody condemn the Avengers films as eco-fascism despite their failure to refute Thanos' Snap plan on any practical grounds, and isn't that interesting how the franchise most moviegoers seem to love gets a pass? But I don't want to waste my energy anymore I have absolutely seen people argue exactly that.
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Nov 25, 2021 20:54
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2016 broke a generation's brain and we will never recover
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Nov 25, 2021 21:00
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Schwarzwald posted:As soon as the larger conflict is revealed, the story almost exclusively follows on the group of people opposing genocide, and who at several points engage with and dismantle fascist ideas. That's Gabi's entire character arc. Well, I'm glad Gabi had her arc, but it ends up a footnote because it's not something the story carries forward (ultimately opting for quasi-reconciliation between genocide opponents and genocider).
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Nov 25, 2021 21:08
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TheKingofSprings posted:2016 broke a generation's brain and we will never recover Indeed. There's a good chance 2024 also breaks a generation's brains, but we will just have to wait and see.
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Nov 25, 2021 21:14
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LordMune posted:Thanks for this post! It's good, and I regret not being able to give it the detailed reply it deserves, right now. To address my place in it, you're probably right in that I'm coming across as too... absolutist. I don't think my reading is necessarily the only valid one, but I do think it requires significantly less guesswork about authorial intent and so on; it irks me to see this thread reflexively dismiss it as invalid or even stupid or ill-intentioned. More than anything that is probably why I keep coming back to it maybe calling people "media illiterate" over it is a bit harsh, but I'm not sure what else to call that reflexive dismissal. I mean, there's a non-zero chance that my guesswork is wrong and Isayama is totally condemning every pacifist as you say he is. Ultimately I am just another idiot monkey with a typewriter and no more omniscient of his intent than anyone else. But like, Eren spent his final moments giving a pathetic incel rant while admitting he had no idea of what he was doing by the end, I don't really think the people who worship him are meant to be interpreted as any wiser than the pacifists.
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Nov 25, 2021 21:16
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Eren was mostly depicted as a reckless dumbass from start to finish, he just ended up being a reckless dumbass with precognition and world killing titan powers for some of that.
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Nov 25, 2021 21:23
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LordMune posted:I dunno, I've seen them condemned for a variety of reasons. Not to mention that superheroes ubermensch as a fascist concept has been thoroughly explored and is hardly controversial today. In this regard, couldn't series like Bleach and Naruto easily be identified as pro-fascist?
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Nov 25, 2021 21:36
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Prowler posted:In this regard, couldn't series like Bleach and Naruto easily be identified as pro-fascist? Please read my 12 chapter thesis on the fascist nature of Goku and the violent subjugation of his enemies and imposition of his will on the world. In this essay, I will
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Nov 25, 2021 21:40
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