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Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Oh hey how's it going wait what the gently caress is going on.

This certainly took an unexpected turn. And almost everything I speculated about political intrigue and competing factions turned out completely wrong.

Also, what's this about tunnelling titans? Where did Hanji mention that? Someone post where that was bought up.

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Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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2 thoughts:

1) We're physically quite close to Shigashima, aren't we? Could we be mere chapters away from The Basement?

2) Just what did Mikasa's biological mother implant into her right forearm?

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Phobophilia posted:

My impression is that Annie set out to capture Eren, but slaughtering the Recon corps wasn't the primary goal. Unfortunately for the Recon Corps, squishing them like bugs was just so easy. She just couldn't help it.

It takes a moment of sitting back and reflecting before she realises that kind of horrific monster she has become.


From the anime thread. I think SnK asks a very interesting question: what goes through the head of a mass murderer? By all accounts, Bert, Reiner and Annie are brave, admirable people outside of their wall-smashing man-squishing titan forms. They are not outright psychopaths, they are perfectly human with goals that just happen to be incompatible with every other human within the walls. They mentally put off the enormity of their actions so to avoid thinking of it, and they are too cowardly to change paths and go straight home, as that would mean admitting that all those deaths in the goal of mission were purely nihilistic.

Despite all of Reiner's protestations, he is still a soldier: on orders from some yet unknown polity, his actions killed many many people. Thus far, there isn't some kind of fascist holocaust apologia, the other humans are perfectly justified in killing or capturing them in as little time as possible so to save the lives of others.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Actually, Eren was far fresher than Reiner when the two of them tangled, the latter had been through hell in Castle Utgard. Eren had been resting during the cart trip. And Reiner latter was still braining the Eren with single punches. Eren managed to get a good ground game on Reiner, but he needed Mikasa's help to even have a chance of winning.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Doflamingo posted:

There was actually something kind of like that in the Annie fight in the manga. Shame the anime dropped it 'cause it was pretty badass.

From the anime thread as well. It's actually weird, for some reason, they didn't draw Eren throwing Mikasa, it was basically implied by Mikasa standing next to Eren, and then suddenly appearing above Annie and slashing her hand.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Not good enough. Look how tiny she is hanging onto Reiner's back! Reiner could pull her off at any time and just bodyslam her into the ground. And she got mobbed by a dozen regular titan, even Eren would have slaughtered the lot.

The problem is that Ymir could completely screw them over, because she was agile enough to keep up with 3DMG in a forest, while Bert and Reiner couldn't transform inside the forest because their titan forms are way too big.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Naw, that's still just Reiner, he's got his hands free and he's just launching 7m classes at the Scouting Legion. Remember, for titans, weight does not scale, but for human-titans, strength does scale.

http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/49/44

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Reiner is making A Joke.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Grisha had alot of contacts in the various institutions that made up the walled society. He was friends, or at least acquaintances with the former recon corps commander/drill sergeant. So his disappearance is extremely suspicious, either he is being held very closely by the military police or the wall cult.

Then again, if Grisha was held by those guys, and if he really wanted to see his son, then the recon corps would probably never have the authority to take Eren. So scratch that tught.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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I think Eren's titan-command power, and the titan's kill-shifters compulsion are different things. So perhaps the former can override the latter, but we've never definitively seen Eren use the command while in titan form.

Let's see, Annie was attacked by feral titans, but there's no evidence that she did more than provoke them. When she ran towards the recon corps, all she did was train a mob of titans towards the recon corps. When she got eaten in the forest, all she did was provoke a mass of titans to attack her.

Now let's see, Ymir. She started attacking those titans, and they all aggroed on her at once. Compare that with those kid titans that were pushing each other over and eating one another's ears, they weren't attacked further.

Now finally, Reiner. Erwin tried to train a mob of titans towards Reiner, and it mostly worked, because they prioritised Reiner. It clearly wasn't good enough, because the outlying stragglers, who couldn't get a good hold of Reiner, ended up going after the humans.

So, the titan priority list basically goes command titan --> kill shifters --> kill humans.

I've read speculation that Eren was using his command powers the first time he transformed, but it really didn't seem to be the case. I think all he did was provoke them into attacking shifters. Plus, Reiner and Bert and Annie would have responded with much less surprise, as they would have felt the psychic command go through their heads, and they would have acted immediately to capture Eren had they known he had command ability.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Reiner's flashback had him looking much younger than he is now. Unlike the fake breach in wall maria, and unlike Bertholdt's account of the titans at his village, I'm pretty sure that the narrator is reliable.

Reiner does look younger than he is now in chapter 15 (the training arc). He was drawn much older looking than Eren in the anime, for some reason. Still, titan shifters do age.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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cooldude2.0 posted:

I'm pretty sure when Eren punched the titan, he injected nanomachines (which his dad injected him with) that flagged it as hostile, and then when the other titans ate it, they were infected which allowed them to be controlled. This might mean he can be controlled by his dad.

Nelson Mandingo posted:

Though the possibility of it requiring a physical component is a nice observation.

Ugh, titan commands don't require physical contact, psychic commands are enough. Bert and Ernie were attacked on Eren's orders, no physical contact needed.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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trucutru posted:

And Annie got a nose job.

No one can get Annie's drat nose right.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Thread sure turned weird quick.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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I don't know how canon this is. But it raises some interesting questions about the biology of titans.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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This is a story, stories are governed by conservation of narrative detail. How did Bert/Reiner/Annie fall into the exact same class as Eren, when they could have joined a year earlier or a year later? Why did Pixis stop the cannon just in the nick of time? How did Madoka and Hitomi just happen to run into each other on the street after the latter was cursed by a witch? Why did Matarael just happen to attack on the day Kaji sabotaged the power? Because causal relationships occur in stories that wouldn't otherwise occur in reality.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Not to mention we have an idea of what the walls are made of, they're hollow, there's no big volume of material you can whittle a great big boulder out of.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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The anime even had the camera focus on Levi's face, with his eyes shadowed. Levi clearly doesn't like the idea of touching the guys hand. And it's not like Petra was going to respect him less, and there was no one around to witness how noble Levi was.

But Levi still has enough care that he was willing to sully himself to give a dying man his last wish.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Yeah, I too screencaps of that moment in the anime thread, and between that and everyone else screaming that that Reiner was a titan, I took that to be the holy grail. In hindsight it wasn't that convincing, we definitely saw steaming blood coming off Mikasa, and that blood was Annie's. So there was no way to tell if Reiner's steam came from his own injuries or Annie's damaged hand is unclear.

Actually, what was alot more convincing in that scene was Reiner's escape. Annie went very gentle on him, unlike earlier scenes, she barely moved around, and basically let Reiner get away for no reason, when if she really wanted to kill Reiner she could have grabbed him with her other hand.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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DaveKap posted:

At the very least, there's gotta be a "this is the year 2500" twist which explains why the tech inside the 3DMG and other equipment is a "black box" full of secrets.

3DMG are a black box because the author has no idea how they could possibly work. I can't work out if they're powered by gas pressure, or if they actively combust or react the gas to generate power. And just how do you aim the hooks, they seem to swivel around in the direction which you press the sword handle's trigger, but how does the belt even know which direction to aim in?

They're as realistic as titans but really, it doesn't matter.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Ah, we needed a breather to sit down and confirm alot of speculation. Considering the breakneck pace since where the anime ended, we absolutely needed it.

You can really tell the characters of Levi and Erwin. I've said it before, Levi is cold and cynical, but underneath that he genuinely cares about others. Erwin on the other hand is utterly ruthless and is being consumed by guilt and barely concealed despair.

And great, we just raised death flags over the entirety of the 104th. Isayama's getting a second go at killing Sasha.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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AnonSpore posted:

Compared to the transcripts I saw on 2ch those translations are hilariously off the mark with alarming frequency, just a heads up. Take it with a grain of salt.

Boo. Well, it was obvious that the final bit in the cottage was badly translated, the rest seemed fairly okay.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Basically the characters have come a long, long way from Eren "I'm angry at everything", Mikasa "Eren is mai husbando" and Armin "I such". Well, except Mikasa, she's still a bit flat and needs her own character development, maybe once she's found out she's a perfected human-titan hybrid.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Most of the CR translation was better, but I rather liked that fan translation of Connie's epiphany. I guess I prefer the phrase "They knew. They knew what was happening, and frantically tried to cover it up" versus "So that's what it was, both of them knew, they knew what had happened, and they tricked everyone so we wouldn't figure it out." The former sounds so much more dejected and weighed down by the sheer enormity of the Grand Conspiracy, the latter worked it out on the spot.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Even if they wondered if titan-capability was hereditary, Connie's village wasn't even genetically isolated from the rest of the nation. All evidence pointed towards something location-specific that turned the village.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Fister Roboto posted:

I like Levi because by all outward appearances he's the archetypical shonen badass who only cares about being STRONG and KILLING THINGS and if you die it's because you're WEAK, but the comic actually shows that while he's pretty cold and ruthless, he's actually a human being who cares about other people.

Surprisingly enough, my favourite Levi scene was extremely early on, where he comforts that dying man despite being completely grossed out his blood. He understands that his own neuroses mean nothing next the lives of his comrades. He could have touched the man on his shoulder and had perhaps the same effect (and Petra was going to worship the ground he walked on no matter what), but he chose to grab the man's hand anyway and look him directly in the eye and tell him that his sacrifice mattered.

Now I love the fact that his personality has infected Eren and turned him into as much of a neat freak. Without the OCD of course.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Reiner losing his god drat mind had nothing to do with Eren, and instead everything to do with the fact that underneath his mass murdering traitor exterior, he's actually a really cool and dependable guy.

So it's great, if you're going to be one of the worse human beings on the planet, at least suffer for it!

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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this allusion meant posted:

A bit of conjecture that could support a fascist reading: possibly the titans are the result of something like in the one-off--a coordinated campaign to destroy existing humanity because of the perceived flaws of its nature. Maybe the idea is to convert all humans into titans, a form in which they are near-indestructible but, due to lack of intelligence or ambition, carry out no aggression except against the old humans and on the orders of some superpower wielded by the holder of the "coordinate" and bigfoot (whatever his deal is). Here, a plot by scientific and cultural elites to transform humanity into mindless monsters, supposedly for a greater good and to protect them from their own nature, does seem to have characteristics of a racist, conspiratorial narrative typical of modern fascists.

For a while, I was a bit worried about this being a possibility, but the more I think about the more I suspect it's not the case. It would call for the inner-wall conspirators (the wall cult, the aristocracy, the king) the outer-wall conspirators (BRA, shifter village), to be aligned with one another in some fashion, in some goal or behaviour. But instead, it seems that both groups of conspirators have distinctly different goals. The shifters seek their own manner of freedom, the wallists seek control, and they both have understandable reasons for their actions. Yes, even BRA, the author spent alot of ink characterising them and telling us that while these people are monsters and mass murderers and the External Enemy, but they are nonetheless just as human as we.

A proper fascist story would have the enemy utterly objectionable, impossible to understand, and deserving of nothing but death. Instead, this story is much more humanistic, people behave in ways that reflect their motivations and experiences, instead of neatly aligning into the categories of Us and Other.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Deliberately non-characterising "enemies" is an extremely common thing in stories. SnK a piece of media which is less guilty of this than most.

A fun fact I just recently realised. I expect Bert and Ernie to turn up extremely soon, and pop open the inner wall like it's no thang. Like they could have done at any time. This will force yet another evacuation into the underground city. Except... they just burnt through their emergency food stockpiles this week. Will we get a scenario where the Last Hopes of Humanity, the recon corps, have to forcibly requisition food from starving civilians so to carry out their mission? I don't know. Tune in next to find out more!

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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This is a genuinely problematic thing that pervades popular culture and just so happens to be a pillar of fascistic thought, sorry you nerds are offended by introspection about the messages within the media you consume.

Don't worry, liking this kind of thing doesn't guarantee your are an actual fascist. It just means part of you thinks like one.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Good zombie stories are about the fragility of civilization in the face of entropy and how humanity can transform into a perversion of itself. Bad zombie stories like the kind you'd read in circa '04 GBS or Arfcom or the multitude of zombie survival forums on the internet are indeed incredibly fascist.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Alternatively this is just a really bad chapter filled with fascist caricatures of child-murderers.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Those men aren't lumpenproles collaborating with the capitalist, but members of the wall cult. Even the most psychopathic capitalist is not going to stab a child in the throat, that's so gauche, they're better utilised in the coal mines or in the brothels. No, the wall cult forms a distinct group within the population, wielding disproportionate influence, assassinating their enemies, and whose upper membership is maternally inherited.

What better way for the author to round off their villainy with a little blood libel?

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Missing Name posted:

Yet they're not making one for the other most popular character. gently caress, potatoes and sausage wouldn't be a difficult thing to make at all.

But I already smell like that :confused:

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Someone post spoilers about just what the hell Muv Luv and its big reveals is about because I have no intention of actually watching/reading it.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Which is still dumb as poo poo because if you have a high accuracy long range instant hit weapon, you can use it to shoot giant robots 2km away from you as well as planes 2km above you. The Germans loving loved using 88s on tanks.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Unless I'm actually piloting a giant robot shooting giant monsters with wasd controls and mouse aiming, I have zero interest in convincing a bunch of schoolgirls with brightly coloured hair to have sex with me.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Hey, I wanted to know the big reveal of the series that inspired SnK, and it turns out to be a knock-off of a dozen other modern sci-fi stories plus hot anime babes.

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Genocyber posted:

you might wanna check out Monster (has an anime), Vinland Saga, or Loan Shark Ushijima then. they all fit those two qualities and are great manga.

Tsutomu Nihei's Knights of Sidonia also tries to go for a similar mood to Shingeki no Kyojin as well, or at least at first. It doesn't feel anywhere near as clever as Nihei's older works, which is a shame. It is nowhere near as complex with its characters and political intrigue, and its art doesn't have the same sense of movement as SnK's art.

One of the strengths of SnK is that its world is completely unconventional, no other show portrays a slow inevitable loss against hordes of immense humanoid monsters. I have no frames of reference, so it always finds new ways of surprising me. Yes, Eren gets a meatgundam, but it's not a simple power fantasy as not only does it actually degrade his sanity, but it also marks him out for a humiliating death at the hands of his fellow humans. And there is no constant formula, no regularly scheduled attacks that all get resolved in similar ways, but constantly evolving situations that are barely resolved and always at some horrendous cost. This already marks it as different from other shounen mecha series.

KoS, on the other hand, falls into a rut, there are continuous attacks that are successively revolved by bigger and badder technology, and there is a gradual power creep as the protagonist gets better suits. The introduction of Tsumugi, on the other hand, completely shakes up the direction of the story and is a massive improvement. So in conclusion, KoS never reaches the same heights, but moves from consistently average to consistently interesting once the character of Tsumugi is introduced.

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Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/c053/46.html

The way Levi says "My ankle is fine now" almost makes me think a death flag is on him in the next few chapters. Please don't die :ohdear:

This is my thought too, C'mon Isayama, do it do it.

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