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Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



That PV was great! 3d manoeuvres, giant design fairly untouched, good animation, nice shout done by the VA, and good adaptation of the character design from the manga to the anime.

Of course surely the good animation will be basically in the first two episodes :P

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Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Nelson Mandingo posted:

Seeing as how the next release is imminent, it got me thinking. It's kinda surprising how irrelevant Eren has become these past eight chapters, considering he's the key to everything going on in the story, and may just be the strongest person in the entire world. I get the feeling he'll be back in center stage again soon.


quote:

Does anyone else get the feeling like Isayama has been lying to us and Jean is actually the main character of this series? Sure Eren is more important, but Jean feels much more like the protagonist than Eren at this point. How many times and for how long has Eren been the MacGuffin/damsel in distress now?

The series has evolved to a ensemble cast, like for example Games of Thrones, instead of being focused on a single heroic main character. Now it's the story of Eren, Mikasa, Armin, Levi, Sasha, Jean, Hange, Connie, Historia, even Reiner, Bertolt, etc. We had entire chapters where the plot thread was a group which didn't hae Eren, Mikasa or Armin, chapters that were flashbacks of other people in the group like Sasha, etc.

Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 14, 2014

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



threeagainstfour posted:

Thinking about it, I feel like the Titans will ultimately be revealed to be some kind of attempt at relieving humanity of the burdens of being human gone horribly wrong.


It could be the typical "biological weapon from past age that went out of control".

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



threeagainstfour posted:

I think it's almost certainly going to be some sort of technology run amok, but I think it's going to turn out that it was never meant to be a weapon.

It could be something that started as transhumanism "positive" technology but later there were factions that clashed each other for whatever reason and started using it in offensive ways, hundreds of years later the losing faction are the few humans remaining.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



I think that in the same way that there is a "control the titans" coordinate, there are "shifter" coordinates, which allow the person to still being himself and revert the transformation, be a shifter in other words. That's why when a normal Titan devours a shifter he regains the ability to be human again.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



AshB posted:

I don't think those are mutually exclusive. All the shifters we met so far seem capable of keeping their sanity and controlling their transformation. Eren just kind of sucks at it more than the others, that's all.

No, I'm talking of why shifters are that, shifters, and normal Titans can't control themselves. Every shifter (including Eren) has a Shifter coordinate, which also is transferable.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Jackard posted:

These posts are weird because the comics refer to the Coordinate, capital C, as the "control titans" ability (which is probably more engrish from this author and is supposed to be Coordinator)

and you are using the term for all titan abilities

I'm speculating with more types of coordinates, taking as example the Coordinate we know and other details given in the plot.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Neowyrm posted:

So, still no titans then.

After the previous two chapters, would anyone think titans are going to magically appear? The plot is going where it has to go.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Terper posted:

I mean, it wouldn't be unprecedented.

Lol yeah, that's also true.


But I mean, the plot is going where it should go, following a logical sense. And if that means getting away from the premise of the series, so be it. I think the series wouldn't be as interesting if it consisted only of the Scout Legion making raiding parties outside and killing Titans and being killed. The mystery of how he city formed, what do the leaders know, how the walls were built, the powers of touching up memories, are all interesting to me. And it's being executed fairly well, it's not like the Scouting Legion just went to battle with the army and that's it, the protagonists are being hunted, they control the media, they are using their leader as scapegoat, the truth of Historia and his family was well done, they have good resources and plans instead of being morons because they are they bad guys, etc.
Of course, doing things *well* in this case means doing things *slow*. There are several phases and problems to deal, the author has to show what it means to turn against the government and how almost impossible it is or it all would look silly, you don't decide or make a revolution overnight, and there are several sides of the story to show. Right now it's frustrating but I think when it's over and you read the story in one go it will be worth it. It's a bit like Hunter x Hunter in that regard, lots of setup right now, things moving slowly.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Senjuro posted:

My memory can be pretty bad at times so it's definitely a possibility but I loved the unexpectedness of anti-personnel 3D gear and guns along with the desperation of being outgunned and outnumbered and the creativity used to survive the encounter.

I'm with you, at least it's one of the best action scenes (and I read the last 30 chapters a few weeks ago).

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Flying Squirrel posted:

Oh yeah, that panel reminds me, if eating people can take their abilities, they do have a handy Annie pill he can swallow to get that hardening ability

Cool idea, but I suppose the enveloping crystal would avoid her being digested, stopping taking her powers.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Liquid Dinosaur posted:

For a while the thing which kept me confused, preventing me from being 100% sure the girl in panel 1 was indeed Mysterious Mind Control Woman was that they look so different, what with Panel 1 Girl having a wider face and less pronounced nose. I'll chalk it up to be just not thinking about it very hard, but only now do I realize the obvious explanation is that Mysterious Mind Control Woman's full face was not drawn till almost 5 years years after issue #1. Isayama just changed his idea on what she should look like in the intervening years, not to mention that at the beginning of the comic Isayama's art was frankly such dogshit I am astounded he got it published.

I'm with you, the mysterious dream sequence will be important later, and 99% sure that's was Geographia. She can modify memories so it wouldn't be a stretch to think she could appear before him with Mikasa aspect or something like that.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Well thought. So not only she can erase and manipulate other people's memories but she can transfer hers (and others?) to other people. In this case to control being a titan?

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011




I don't think it's the same case. In their case, they can't remember because they were normal minnless Titans, in other words people who lost themselves in their titan form. Once they eat a shifter, the came back as humans.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Missing Name posted:

Yeah, the author won't confirm nor deny the gender.

http://www.dailydot.com/fandom/attack-titan-snk-hange-hanji-gender-debate/

gently caress it, "she" sounds better than "xe"

I read the link...

it seems more the author wanted to troll the audience once the question was asked, nothing more.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



O_O

I shouldn't have read the drat spoilers.

But still now I'm hyped. So much for being slow, now we have giant plot developments.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Nelson Mandingo posted:

I like the visual imagery on page 43 and 45.

Not only is it really well drawn but Eren is wearing very similar clothes to his father.

But yeah big plot points.

Erwin and Zackley don't really care about humanity. Just their agendas. Though Erwin may be playing along. He's based on Ozymandias from The Watchmen after all.


I would say the care for humanity, but in that care... what agenda should they follow, theirs or the one from other people? In the end, they choose their own individual agenda and judgement, not trusting the rest.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



RatHat posted:

What? It's my understanding that ALL titans were originally humans. Ymir appeared to just be a regular titan before she ate a shifter afterall.

So the memories Eren has are from the Reiss family and who they've eaten. But what about the weird part in the first chapter with Eren apparently having a flashback? That takes place before Eren would've ate his father and gained the memories. This also debunks the theory that he used his coordinate power on Mikasa when she killed the bandit when they were kids.

Anyway, I wonder what Grisha was trying to accomplish by having Eren eat him. Was it just so the coordinate power would be hidden since no one would know Eren had it?


I suppose Grisha knew the Reiss family was about to do something with the coordinate power that he didn't agree with, and he decided to stole it and "hide it" in his kid. Who would thought he would offer himself to be eaten. It had to be something very important.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Saagonsa posted:

Titans don't digest

They don't digest normal humans. But about shifters humans...


And I liked Geographia more than Frieda.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Terper posted:

Adding to this: It is quite possible that only Eren can access memories from those he has devoured because of Frieda's memory powers. It was never implied Ymir had memories from Marcel's perspective. Also, it would mean Eren not only has the power to command Titans, but also has the same powers of memory control Frieda used on Historia. So if we assume two different royal members had the Coordinate and Memory powers - which makes sense when you consider humanity's entire loss of memory of life before the walls, and how there are titans inside the walls - that's two known powers out of six eaten. And then there's the possibility that Grisha had a power from before. Eren's like a Titan power piņata at this point.

I agree, I always made a distinction between the shifter power, the coordinate power and the memory power, in fact I made a post a month or two ago about that, and how all of them can be transferred through devouring.
Though, good observation, about the use of the memory power to reclaim past memories of the eaten, I didn't think about that.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Squidster posted:

Grisha may not even have been a shifter before the church massacre. He might have injected himself with the same mindless Titan formula that Eren got, gambling that he'd eat someone with shifter powers.

Given the synchronized actions of Grisha and Reiner, I can only assume they were working together from the start. It's entirely possible the entire reason for the wall attack was to stop whatever the Reiss family was doing in that church.


Yep, that's also true. So many variables.

I love it.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



visceril posted:

I meant that as far as introducing more factions and complicating the story further, making the story longer


Pulling a Gurm, in other words

Well, yeah, you never know, it may be the case. It's a popular manga, etc.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Pensive posted:

I think it's possible that monkey trouble may be a recent development, possible even one of the catalysts that started the current situation. What got me thinking this is what we currently know about Ymir. It's now been confirmed that what Ymir "stole" was not the titan power itself, but the shifter ability.

We also know that:
-Ymir was turned into a titan about 60 years ago.
-Ymir is familiar with the Titan village, but not monkey trouble. She seems to know exactly what's up with Bert and Reiner but has to ask them what monkey rouble is. She also seems to assume that they are not working with him, but where looking for him.

So I think there are three possibilities regarding him.
1. He is simply part of the Titan village's group and was working independently of the Trio but is ultimately on their side. Monkey trouble showing up simply indicated that the next stage of the plan is in motion and the trio are free to go home. The main caveat against this, as has been pointed out, is his apparent lack of knowledge of the Walled civilization.

2. Monkey trouble is part of a group that came into being sometime in the last 60 years and upset the status quo. He seemed to be able to both create and (to a degree) direct titans. Could a bunch of the titan village's powers have fallen into the hands of someone/something else? What if the reason they came to the Walls to get the coordinate power was because they used to have one but lost it. They knew they could get another from the Walled territory so set in motion a plan to steal it.

Remember back during the training chapters when Berthold tells that story about his home being attacked by Titans? We now now he was lying about that being after the first attack on the walls. However Reiner's reaction to it suggests that he may have been telling a real story. Maybe that was whatever system the Titan Village had in place to keep safe outside the walls failing.

Reiner seems to believe that a big disaster is coming on the horizon, and their side is the one that is most likely to survive it. Everything is about to fall apart and they are getting ready for it.

3. Monkey trouble is completely unrelated to any of the currently know factions.

Monkey Trouble really intrigues me. Even forgetting little thing like how he can create Titans from humans, or he can control titans (someone with Coordinate power!) or that he is intelligent (and somehow I don't think he is a normal shifter titan), what it really perplexed me is the moment Berthold and Reiner looked at him their faces changed to pure admiration, almost drooling. And even then it seems the moment didn't register with them, Ymir asked about him and Reiner didn't know what she was talking about monkeys.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Jackard posted:

The latter, they are not separate abilities.

Are we sure? Is it pure mind control? Can she say "jump off a cliff"?

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



If titans started as some kind of human experiment in the future gone wrong, Monkey titan could be one of the first ones, when the experiments where done in monkey labs, putting his creation just when everything starting going to poo poo. He is intelligent... mmm maybe experiments were about animal intelligence uplift?

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Just wait until the live action adaptation by Hollywood. Tom Cruise will play Eren, somehow.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



final2percent posted:

I still have a problem understanding why Grisha would sacrifice himself like that. If he just got all these sweet shifting/coordinate powers, why not use them himself to accomplish whatever his goal was?

I think that at first he just wanted to hide the Coordinate, he stole it from the frigging King, so he knew he couldn't hide from their men. But if he is dead/missing and no one knows he passed the coordinate before dying (or better said, passed the coordinate through dying) nor they know to who he passed it, they couldn't find it.

Of course I think he had a second phase for his plan, which were instructions for Eren in the basement... and we all now about the basement.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



RatHat posted:

Grisha left him alive on purpose.

Really? I didn't get that. It seems as chaos ensued, some fought, some screamed, people ran away... and it was just chance that he lived and the rest died.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Brannock posted:

I don't think you can deny that it's lost much of its gravitas. Berserk at least managed to hold onto it for most of the manga's run.

The first chapters were pretty engrossing, I'll give you that, but the series has managed to stay consistently interesting, even if it went in a different direction.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



ArmyOfMidgets posted:

I'd love for Eren to finally start clearly remember what's in the basement, describing every last detail of the stairway to it and suddenly and inexplicably he gets to see all of Jean's childhood memories.

Heh.

Actually, one of the surprises is how Jean has been a totally tertiary character. Other ones has been sharing the protagonist role (or at least they have been important secondaries) together with Eren, like Mikasa, Armin, Levi, Erwin, Historia, Hange, and the other shifters. But Jean? Kind of left undeveloped and without importance, even if he has been sticking with the group since the start.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



This time I will be strong and won't click any spoilers!

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Captain Candiru posted:

Definitely would never have predicted an upsidedown enema torture scene in a manga I was reading.

You don't read the right mangas!



So, the Ackerman family has some powers. I don't know how I feel about it. Before it was kind of silly the whole hyper-competent soldier way above others, even crushing the wood floor as a littler girl, but it was the type of thing you could ignore because hyper-competence is a plague in manga/anime!; now we have an explanation at least... but the special bloodline explanation feels tired. Though I suppose it will be tied later to the entire backstory (gene experimentation?) so maybe it will be acceptable.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Elias_Maluco posted:

It just occurred me: if Historia's sister was still alive during the attack on Wall Maria, the strike would probably have been a complete failure, as she could use the titan command thing to just send the titans away or even use then to kill Bert and Reiner.

Or the other way around, Grisha went to get help to stop the attack, but the king said no for unknown reasons (maybe they didn't want to reveal the power, even at the cost of losing the outer wall?), fight ensued then.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Mountaineer posted:

If Eren has his father's memories, shouldn't he know what's in the basement now?

The only memories he "unlocked" were the ones we saw of his last moments. For now he doesn't have control over them.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Broseph Brostar posted:

Eren ate his dad who ate some other people, mikasa has magic heritage that gives her enhanced abilities but not because she's asian, also a giant talking monkey showed up and then was forgotten

You know, I wonder if this is Isayama taking the piss on the trope of typical manga/anime character being super strong thanks to their pure will, something very Japanese. I mean, it has assigned that attribute of "magical bloodline with super-strength" to the only few guys we know they have some Japanese blood in then in a pretty big cast.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Broseph Brostar posted:

No only Mikasa's mom was Asian and her dad was an Ackerman. I do think her Japanese heritage was him trolling readers into think she's hyper-competent because she's Japanese.

Is Levi actually blood related to Kenny? I thought he was adopted or whatever you call taking a kid under your wing ans teaching them how to murder.

Oh, I thought the Ackermans were the Asian people. Of cours Ackerman isn't even a Japanese or Chinese name but.. mmm. Yeah, brainfart.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Nothing to object, it was a good chapter. The discourse made by the enemy in the first pages humanized them to make the fight more ambiguous, a good move by the author. The tactics used were interesting, they didn't simply barged in, and the action itself was impactful and acrobatic (if you think about it, they are almost Cirque du Soleil artists lol). Oh, and a little more backstory and cannibalism and teasing about the true secret of the world. And it finishes with a possible treason.


A complete chapter!

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



yellowyams posted:

Rod is probably telling the truth but if they could have gotten rid of titans, then why not do it some time in the last 100 years? Why did Reiner and Bertolt's village want Eren's ability if they couldn't even use it? I think there's a loophole to the Reiss-only rule and Grisha knew about it; he deliberately killed each Reiss and then fed himself to his son, meaning Eren could probably do something with it that he couldn't and it probably involves the basement somehow.



I think Rod's knowledge is second-hand knowledge and therefore untustworthy or at least not complete. His is the "king" but from what we know now, the real power and the real knowledge went from his brother to his daughter, and from there to Eren. He never was a chosen one, he only knows what he was told about in the family. As you say, there is a hole in the logic of all this.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



In It For The Tank posted:

I really dig the theory that at one point in time there was a forth wall, and RBA's village was located within it. Then, the wall got breached, and, instead of sending the titans away or destroying them, the person with the Coordinate engineered a mass-memory wipe in the three remaining walls and left the people in the fourth wall to their fates (the theory goes that without Grisha's intervention, Freida would have done the same thing when Wall Maria was breached, which was why the entire Reiss family was gathered). This makes RBA's attacks on the Wall understandable: if their village was constantly in danger and they had essentially been screwed over by the Royalty, then they had no choice but to breach the walls and try to reclaim the Coordinate so that they could save their people.

I like this interpretation because I feel RBA's village needs to have some prior connection to the people in the walls so that they would reasonably know about the Coordinate ahead of time. If they were a completely distinct group, I feel like it would be contrived for them to have such intimate details about the monarchy and the secrets of the regime. The revelation that they were once apart of the wall people and were abandoned and betrayed goes a long way into explaining RBA's monstrous actions as well.


/mind blown

I really like the theory!

A fourth wall, that way the titan village was a normal village that was lost, and the memory wipe 100 years ago was to make it appear as they always had only three walls! I can't imagine Grisha being ok with forgetting the third wall, but wanted to try to fight them or something, which started the conflict. I suppose there is a trick with the Coordinate ability, and the memory wipe is the "safe" option, while the trying to use it to control the Titans is riskier because reasons. It goes with the theme of the series, the dilemma of hiding safely behind walls but never getting anything done vs going out and risking your life for a sliver of hope of doing something that really improves humankind situation.

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Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Nelson Mandingo posted:

They pretty much say none of them understood the magnitude of what they were really doing. They were literal children when they started the attack. The fact they "Can't go back" (as in, it's not allowed) without succeeding in their mission, and their constant fear of failure suggests their leadership is very much in the Darth Vader school of punishment.

Hange got hit in the shoulder. Armin is right there with her. She's fine. We may as well start bracing ourselves for Sasha's death. Her role in the story is done. She doesn't have anywhere else to go at this point. She's a glorified background scout with a name and speaking lines. If anyone is going to die here it's gonna be her or Jean.

You spelled out "Connie" wrong.

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