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Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Beefstew posted:

I frequently forget that there are even any books after God Emperor, since it's such a perfect ending to the series.

I lost interest somewhere in the middle of Heretics, I simply could not bring myself to care about rear end in a top hat space politics anymore once any sort of grounding viewpoint character was gone.

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Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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There Bias Two posted:

So what? They're all being held prisoner by some tyrannical family while the world goes on relatively peacefully outside the walls? Is this North Korea?

No, it's Japan. As I have been suspecting, this whole thing has been an ultra-nationalist screed. Japan is inside the walls, everything out is literally "the rest of the world".

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Bad Seafood posted:

In the meantime I'd request you talk about the basement instead.

it's a loving tiny basement I mean come on you can't even fit a foosball table in there

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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"Did they get to the basement yet" is going to be replaced with "Has Eren killed Armin yet" because there's literally no other way his arc can resolve now, with all the foreshadowing dropped.

Alternatively, "did they genocide the people outside the walls yet."

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Gruckles posted:

"Is Annie out of the crystal yet?"

she's never gonna get out. the entire world is gonna die of old age, and she'll still be down there.

And I will be happy.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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SomewhatMystia posted:

Why do you say that? I'm probably missing something obvious, but I didn't really notice any 'Eren's gonna kill Armin' foreshadowing.

Eren never cared for how pragmatic and ruthless Armin's been getting over the course of the series (which is hilarious considering how bloodthirsty he is, but whatever), Armin was just saved from a heroic death at the cost of another pragmatic hero's life who's shoes he now feels immense pressure to fill, and Armin just inherited the Titan form of the series' most iconic villain. I also seem to recall some rumors/spoilers that the author intended for Eren and Armin to become increasingly antagonistic to each other.

The series ends with the two at each others titans' throats, I'm dead certain.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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So, who wants to bet this little infodump ends with Eren staring for a panel, then declaring that "I'M GONNA KILL ALL THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS OUTSIDE THE WALLS!"?

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Shneak posted:

It's neither. The Nazis come in after the timeskip in Attack on Titan: Part II.

I personally think Everybody in AoT Is Nazis at this point, therefore Bert and Reiner were correct and the happy ending would be all of humanity in this manga goes extinct.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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This is boring, when are we gonna get to see the Wall people committing horrific war atrocities on the Marley already.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Hamelekim posted:

60% dead on landing wasn't it?

There's no place of this story to go but darker. One side or the other is probably going to get wiped out.

Still hoping for a double Knock Out, myself. In my mind, all the characters in this world are Irredeemable Villains now, and the only happy ending possible is they all go extinct in the war.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Sir Ilpalazzo posted:

Yeah, I think the idea that both sides are villainous here is not really a reasonable one. No matter what wrongs Eldia committed in the past - even if they were just as bad as Marley says - we know that in present day the Eldian people are blameless, and the only evil here is the Marleyian government.

As recently as Chapter 90, from the mouth of the protagonist:


No, no I'm still quite certain this is will be a War of Extermination, and all the characters know it.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Hate-Senpai posted:

I mean, Marley is presumably never going to stop attacking the people inside the Wall because they want the coordinate power.

The Eldians in the Wall really don't have much of a chance, I'd think, given how Marley treats its own Eldians.

Except the main character isn't saying push back and sue for peace, he's saying they have to genocide the Marley before the Marley genocide them.

A pox on both their houses.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Schwarzwald posted:

Given that two major accomplishments of our heroes so far have been tearing down a totalitarian regime and establishing free press/educating the populous I am pretty certain that they will, in fact, not be go on to commit genocide.


He is not saying they need to genocide the Marley people, and pushing back and suing for peace is the wrong approach to take with an enemy that wants to eliminate you.

Yes, replacing a totalitarian monarchy with a torture-loving, extremely nationalistic military juanta is totally a move in the right direction. And the free press has never been used to rile up populaces into demonizing an entire ethnic group of people and marching into total war against them.

Eren is the exact same REVENGEANCE KILL EM ALL fucker he's always been, he's just done a mental find-and-replace of "Titans" with "Marley", and added "made us kill our own brethren" to the list of The Enemy's Unforgivable Crimes he's been keeping.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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JuniperCake posted:

Yeah I agree. The Eldians were in self-imposed exile before Marley decided to murder or subjugate them all. (There is no way a single free eldian would be left after they seized the coordinate, they are either potential weapons or future enemies so that is going to seal their fate). They are pretty much fighting for their right to exist.

Like without a doubt, the past eldians were just as bad as the Marleys, but the current Eldians are clearly victims who did not ask for any of this. It's understandable that they wouldn't think of peace as an option because what has Marley done that indicates that peace between them is even a remote possibility? Like maybe they could get to a peace agreement eventually, but it's understandable that Eren and co would think that's impossible.

The only way "both sides" are equally bad works here is if you hold all the Eldian citizens responsible for the crimes of their ancestors. If you don't then they aren't facing the same situation at all.

I mean, yes, absolutely? They kind of got off scott-free from their ancestors' poo poo a century ago, mind-wiped themselve so they wouldn't feel that guilt, and now it's come home to roost? And I'm supposed to sympathize with that poo poo?! Yeah, absolutely gently caress all Eldians past, present, and future.

Just gently caress all the Marley, too.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Saagonsa posted:

I mean first off it's still very unlcear what exactly actually happened with the past with Eldians and Marleys. Like, Grisha's understanding of what went on in the past is very obviously wrong, but there's really no reason to believe everything that the Marley government says about the Eldians are true.

Secondly, why are the current Eldians responsible for the sins of their ancestors? There very obviously aren't any systems in place where they're benefiting from past persecution of the Marleys. In fact, quite the opposite is true.

They abandoned their kin in Marley territory to Wall themselves up on a literal goddamn island to save their own hides, and proceeded to live a century in blissful, ignorant relative peace while the Marley ran roughshod over the rest of the earth with the titan toys they left lying around. They only started to care when the Marley broke that sweet little gig up. In the current setting, they're not just talking about protecting themselves from Marley invasion, they're basically using the loving Fourteen Words to justify what they're about to do the Marley, and probably any of these other factions that get in their way like the Middle Eastern Coalition.

There is no difference between the Marley and the Eldians in my eyes, other than one group can turn into literal giant human-eating monsters.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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JuniperCake posted:

I think we can take them in their world that the Eldians were bad because their ruling class at least had incredibly unmatched power and there is no way they were saints about it. That is just not something that happens unfortunately and Grisha's talk with the owl pretty much confirms it.

But Kerning, one thing I think you are missing is we are talking about authoritarian governments where individual people have little power. Add in a king that can literally control your memories and it's even worse. How much responsibility do you think some random baker or a farmer and his kids has in all of this? Especially many generations after. Do they deserve to die even though they likely had no power to influence what happened?

Like you are advocating that all these people should be ethnically cleansed without exception here and you are taking issue with people resorting to genocide to try to solve problems. Do you not see the hypocrisy with that?

No, I''m railing against one side wiping out the other. I want both sides to die in a MAD-type situation for this, with the bonus such a scenario would be entirely of their own making.

And even if you get away with the whole "innocent" excuse before the coup, you absolutely cannot after. Any choice the Eldian Wall people accept now is one hundred percent on their heads.... and I strongly suspect they'll not choose to be merciful or gracious.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Schwarzwald posted:

They did not wall themselves up, they were enslaved. They did not only now start to care, the government repeatedly cracked down on citizens who learned (or sought to learn) too much. They are not using the Fourteen loving Words to justify "what they're about to do the Marley," they are defending themselves from a nation that has shown itself willing to wipe them out and has taken steps toward doing so.

And even if the manga supported your position, which it does not, it would still be wrong to genocide the Eldian people.

Genocide is bad.

Genocide is bad, I agree. However, the manga (and this very discussion) has proven no other solution is apparently viable, so we might as well root for the genocide that removes the biggest number of vile fuckers possible, which is Double Knockout.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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GodFish posted:

Yeah, the manga that has the bloodthirsty rage protagonist sadly, tiredly, pointing out across the water and saying "So all of these people are our enemies, we have to kill them all before we're safe?" is definitely going to end with them killing everyone else so they can be safe.

Yeah, that's my bet.

No worries, he'll pull an Ender Wiggen and feel reeeeeeeally guilty about it, you guys, so it'll be fine!

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Soooooo many motherfuckers gonna die in World War Titan.

The streets will run as red rivers, and The New Eldian Empire (Praise Ever Be to Most Holy Ymir, and her servant on earth Her Highness Historia Reiss!) will be built on a mountain of Marelian corpses.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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E-flat posted:

I think it also continues the nice parallel between the two as characters. Ymir gave Historia poo poo for abandoning her real name for her second lease on life while saying she didn't (and then we find out Ymir is a fake name given to her) (Granted she couldn't remember her original name/if she had one). She kept going on about living selfishly, wanting to live for only herself, but in the end couldn't help but sacrifice her own well-being to help others--just like she explains she did before in the letter. Historia, even after her own "I'm the worst, the enemy is the rest of humanity/(gently caress you dad)" revelation/spiel... ends up willingly choosing to take a new role to play as Queen instead of live her own life as Ymir wished, and then reads how Ymir had done the same thing.

It... actually, now that I'm thinking on it, makes me worried for Historia. Hope she ends up breaking her character cycle. :ohdear:

The Cycle Remains Unbroken, and the Suffering Will Continue.

The Eldians are not heroes.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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That sure is a lot of minor characters introduced this chapter who're gonna end up in a mass grave, huh?

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Terper posted:

Armin's face after he realizes he's said some supremely hosed up poo poo as if it was completely normal

One of my favorite moments. Armin's really the only character I still have respect for at this point, in that he realizes how unrepentantly monstrous he is, but is also willing to just own it.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Philip Rivers posted:

And I'm still furious about Ymir what the gently caress

God, that moment still makes me crack up every time I think about it. Just the perfect punchline to her joke of a life.

Attack on Titan is the best Kafka comedy manga, you guys.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Calling it now that the other world factions are gonna declare on both Marely and Paradis when the war starts out of both sheer hatred and perceived weakness.

World War Titan is gonna decimate the world's population, and I can't wait.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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ImpAtom posted:

It's probably because their return to the story is going to be explosive and violent and things need to be properly set up before they are demolished.

The anticipation is killing me.

:killing:

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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This flashback is good. Will make it so much the better when the Wall people are forced to slaughter their fellow kinsmen in Marley territory.

Better to be killed than live a slave, after all, and there's no chain stronger than the one forged in your mind.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Conspiratiorist posted:

The jingoism is only there if you come looking for it and don't actually see what's past it.

In regards to the state of Paradis after the coup, the military junta established with Historia as a puppet monarch is immediately recognized in-universe as less than ideal, but it's baby steps. It seems fairly realistic in how the revolt against the super oppressive police state came not from the populous but from within the military, opposing factions dethroning oligarchs who were far more interested in maintaining their status than the welfare of the nation (which was facing the threat of outright annihilation). While it's true they merely shifted from one authoritarian government to another, the new one is unequivocally freer and hopeful for the future of the people - and the characters themselves make this distinction, that the only true way they can be better than the monarchy they replaced, is by looking after the citizens and giving them more freedom. Letting them know the truth and come to their own conclusions.

It's interesting how it treats nationalism, too. We're shown at first how BURNING FIGHTING SPIRIT is the opposite of civilian cowardice and the way to defeat the titans, then after spending a long time building that up, the titans show up and we see what a farce that is because soldiers keep dying horrible, often pathetic deaths.

But then, in the end, fostering this farce is the only thing that can get the soldiers to throw down their lives when it's necessary.

I think Isayama does an overall good job at conveying one of the central themes of the series: that things often aren't "good" or "evil", they merely are what they are, and that the world can be ugly, cruel, and beautiful all at the same time. The Scout's charge on the Beast Titan encapsulates this theme, and I'm looking forward to Wit Studio giving it the animation treatment a year from now.

The big shonen hoo-rah build ups to, and the complete and utter decimation immediately after of the death charges are some of the best parts of the manga.

I look forward to many, many more.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Sasha is going to (or already has) eat Annie.

At long last, she's gonna get to eat all the meat she could ever want, and more...

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Schwarzwald posted:

Next chapter is going to be loving lit.

So many new faces this chapter.

They're gonna look great torn to bloody pieces. Marco's Revenge!

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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In It For The Tank posted:

The only good MarleyanAoT character is a dead MarleyanAoT character.

So many potential casualties in this setup, so little time. I can scarcely think of who I want dead first. They'll all so deliciously appropriate!

:killing:

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Conspiratiorist posted:

I agree with you, so I guess I wasn't very good at conveying what I was trying to say about Eren with my post.

He's become philosophical and fatalistic, as opposed to being driven by enmity. He's not acting on what he thinks is the best option, he's acting on what he feels is the only option.

What remains to be seen is what that option is. I agree that it's probably to try and save the Eldians.

If all the other races are made extinct, then the Eldians will be, by default, saved! :downs:

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Let me be the first to say...

:circlefap::killing::fuckoff::getin::circlefap:

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Phobophilia posted:

Not sending any diplomatic probes to Paradis after losing containment: a genius plan. You have to be incredibly deluded to think your human enemy is both intelligent and impossible to negotiate with.

But enough about the US foreign policy on North Korea.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Conspiratiorist posted:

I want to see the last 2 chapters animated.

I'm upset we'll have to wait literal years for season 4, because I'm dying to know what the Linked Horizon fascist anthem OP for this arc will be.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Pretty good chapter, but I'd like to see more bodies hit the floor over the next few chapters, Marley, Eldian traitor, and foreigner alike.

I predict one of the next few chapters will end with a shot of a huge fuckoff Paradisian invasion fleet about to D-Day this continent. And I kinda hope the Paradisians figured out flamethrowers, so we can watch fire units literally burn these cities (and especially the people in them) to the ground. :flame:

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Say Nothing posted:

Who's going to eat Warhammer? Eren already has the hardening thing and an armored colossal titan seems like it would be too much of an overpowered battle-ending plot macguffin to fit in with the storyline.
Does Misaka has the right DNA to use the titan power?

I'd say Sasha, but I'm still betting she ate Annie during the skip.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Captain Cappy posted:

The Walldians are still the good guys until Eren goes out of his way to mush some civilians.

Keeping this for later.

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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Beefstew posted:

#WheresAnnie2018

In Sasha's stomach. Or maybe Hange's.

This city is gonna loving burn. to. the. ground. :flame:

Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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So either the Marley successfully get their Anti-Paradise military coalition as they spin this incident as completely validating their claims, or they get betrayed and the other factions take advantage of their weakness to attack both them and the Paradisians and turn World War Titan into a big, messy mle trois.

Either way, this is going to be a glorious meatgrinder. Just mountains of corpses and oceans of blood.

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Kerning Chameleon
Apr 8, 2015
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More.

I need more.

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