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Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Anime ends after they capture Annie and sort out the political fallout from the events leading up to that.

My guess is they'd like to do the Shifters arc one season, then the whole Royal Family business as a 2-cour later.

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Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Is that the fight where they capture Eren? That'd be a hell of a downer to end a season on.

No, it'd end *after* they rescue Eren.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Flesnolk posted:

Season two is pretty good so far.

Rewatching season one, to rewind this way back, (my apologies) was it ever explained why the Titan shifters help out at Trost at all? They start the attack and then turn around and fight against it and I don't remember if that got justified.

They didn't want to blow their cover yet?

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


It's likely what happened in Connie's village: people were given a titan serum whose effects Zeke can suppress/activate, perhaps even revert, and had already gone mindless like titans despite being in human form.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Petiso posted:

I know they want to portray them as xenophobic assholes but still marleyans are pretty stupid wasting most of those titans and saying 60% of them died with the drop like it's nothing when they completely rely on them and are a limited resource.

They aren't a limited resource, they can make more. Just grab some jews eldians and inject them some titan juice.

The important ones are the inheritor titans, and as it's readily apparent, Marley doesn't commit them if chances are too high of losing them - it's why they first took out the armored train then did the aerial titan drop/bombardment as a cover.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Speaking of the alternating tones of the series, I wonder if the Marley arc is going to be an inverse of the story up to now, with the Paradis people infiltrating them to destabilize the country and obtain the titanization technology.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


What sold me on the direction was on the first episode, that second-long pause in Berthold acknowledging Reiner's suggestion of heading south. Drawing consistency issues aside, the manga does well with its use of panels dedicated solely to facial expressions, but actually having them linger during an animated scene conveys nuances of meaning print media can't.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


She ate Bert and Reiner's (and presumably Annie's) friend Marcel, one of the shifters Marley sent to infiltrate the walls. Shows up in their flashbacks every now and then.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


I Love Annie May posted:

I love it when a dead thread suddenly gets 50 new posts cause it makes me excited and I think:"Ooh, look at that activity! The new chapter should be out!", and then I come here and see people making disingenuous arguments and it makes me regret ever bookmarking this thread.

And it's like 15 people responding to That One Dude, too.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Did a decent job of explaining why Grisha made Eren a titan without telling him anything.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


They have made distinctions on who can or should inherit titan powers, and the "recruiting process" makes total sense in the context of only certain family lines having full compatibility with specific titan types: presumably you have several individuals that are ie compatible with the Armored Titan power, so when the time comes you just pick the kid among them that has distinguished themselves the most to inherit it.

It's why Gabi keeps talking about getting the Armored Titan, while Zeke talks about handing over the Beast Titan to Colt.

What would be interesting to see is if Armin managed to successfully integrate the Colossal Titan's powers, or pulled a Ymir.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


The Paradis government has a few captured titans for research, not to mention whatever Marley supplies and technology they've managed to salvage from their foiled operations, or from Grisha's basement. They've had a few years too of free reign to look for whatever records or technology the old government and church might've kept.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Speaking of, this more or less settles what happened at Connie's village being that Zeke came in pretending to be a doctor and vaccinated everyone.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Turin Turambar posted:

I would have to reread that part. Because right now I don't understand why Ymir left Historia to help the other side sacrificing her life.

Because for all her blustering, Ymir was a big liar and a hypocrite. Is it really not clear by now? She kept saying she didn't care for others, and she was certainly bitter about being used as a symbol of hope in her past life, but ultimately she was self-sacrificial to the core as she either loathed or simply had little regard for herself.

She went with Bert and Reiner for the same reason she joined the military to find Historia: because she felt sorry for them. Being from Marley herself, she understood and sympathized with their circumstances, didn't want to see them killed by titans, and afterwards figured that going along with them to return the power she stole would help them out (so they wouldn't get executed as total failures). Plus possibly explain the situation further to try and negotiate for Historia.

In Ymir's mind, her life was of little worth and soon would fade anyway, and Marley's victory was assured.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Basically, while Reiner has always been treated as the most visibly unstable character, but between him, Ymir, Historia, and Eren, Ymir was by far the most emotionally damaged one of the bunch.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


They were sent in to do what Grisha did. Breaching the wall might've been an attempt to lure the Founding Titan out, and when that didn't work they decided to use the ensuing chaos to infiltrate the military.

12-14 does seem rather young, though.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


She might've been a small and fast abnormal that caught them by surprise, or they were in cooldown from having titanized earlier in the day, or both.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


They approach the sudden appearance of superpowers in the most reasonable way possible: immediately exploring what it means in the context of military conflict, both as a weapon that could be used by them or against them.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Aumanor posted:

E: Analysing some of the post, what derailed a lot of the speculation from the right track and straight into a wall was that can of herring in the Utgard Castle.

They weren't even red.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Gaj posted:

Uh question regarding Titan lifespan. If Reiner and Zeke have a 13 year limit, does that mean Armin and Eren are gonna croak in ten or so?

Armin's got around 9 years left.

Eren's got less than 4.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Terper posted:

Happy Mother's Day! Two-in-one special!



That was quite the twist.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


In It For The Tank posted:

Perhaps the reason we've spent the last few chapters developing the characters in Marley is to capture their horror when the Attack Titan and the Colossal Titan suddenly attack, in a reversal of the beginning of the series.

Armin going tact-nuke in the middle of a Marleyan victory parade as Reiner looks on in horror. Now wouldn't that be something?

SgtSteel91 posted:

I kind of hope they got Annie out of the crystal and convinced her to join their side

Or they salvaged titan juice from the Marley incursions and had Sasha eat her.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


They already had a very militaristic culture: a monarchy with no separation between the military and civic justice. It was always an autocratic police state. And now, while they're aiming to grant more freedom to the people, they're still a military junta using a secret royal heir to legitimize themselves.

That said, considering Historia and the rest of the people at the top, I'd say their goals are probably the dismantlement or crippling of the Marleyan state, the liberation of the Eldians living in Marleyan territory (either allowed self-determination or granted passage to Paradis), and between military strength and treaties with other nations establish a secure base so that they won't be threatened again. Paradis is an enormous and easily defensible territory with the roaming titans gone, and rich in natural resources, so I doubt they'd want to expand far beyond it.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


RatHat posted:

I used to think maybe the power was split among the Ackerman family somehow but that seems to be a completely separate thing.

I'd love to see Mikasa's titan form in action, though.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Schwarzwald posted:

They suspected that Eren had the coordinate titan.

They attempted it because:

1) Desperation
2) Zeke had arrived
3) They were right on the wall, with the element of surprise
4) Not only did they identify the individual with titan power they had lost on arrival, she was incapacitated and easy to take with them
5) And as previously mentioned, they didn't know Annie had been discovered and captured

The first two are the most important, as Reiner was beginning to break down, and Zeke around meant both that they had someone to report to and that they needed something to report ASAP. Going back empty-handed and a titan down (Marcel) would look horrible for them, but on the other hand, returning in full numbers and with a captured titan would be a great success even if it wasn't their original objective.

They knew Eren was a titan that wasn't one of theirs, so he *might* be the one they were looking for - but Coordinate or not, the fact of being a titan shifter made him such a valuable military asset that it's probable just cause to cancel their mission and return to Marley in order to deliver him to their superiors.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


It felt forced in the way Armin was somehow still alive after having the skin burned off his body followed by a hundred feet fall, and the dying Erwin was conveniently brought back to be placed next to him... but as for how the situation itself played out and the themes it explored I'm good with. It was Levi's call and it put a nice bowtie on the relationship between the two men, calling back to when Levi made the decision for him to charge the Beast Titan, which itself references the way Erwin won Levi's loyalty by telling him to always make his own choices and never regret his decisions, for to do otherwise makes a man a hollow puppet just going through the motions until they die.

The arc also showed a bit of teeth again by killing recurring primary characters, but in that context Armin over Erwin was the "safe" choice.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Both Reiner and Zeke surviving is frustrating merely from the reader's viewpoint of the heroes getting so close but not quite there to killing them.

The consequences of them making their escapes, both plot-wise and what it the experience meant for the characters personally, are being handled very well. Reiner having PTSD was almost a given but it's interesting to explore, while Zeke coming out of it terrified of Levi was refreshing. Levi disassembling Monkey Business and then hounding him all the way out of Shiganshina with his tail between his legs, despite having a titan troop thrown his way, has got to be one of the most satisfying moments in the series, and it's only fitting that Zeke be left traumatized by it.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Liquid Dinosaur posted:

That and saying "Hometown" implied it's just a small community and they're being sent out by some kind of village chief or a mayor, and not that they're soldiers in the military of a large, industrialized nation.

Does anyone know enough to about the Japanese terms being translated as "soldier" and "warrior," and if they have the same connotations as in English? Where a soldier is just someone who's doing their job and will return to their civilian life when the fighting is over, to someone who's life revolves around fighting. Or how one is "civilized" and the other is "barbarous," etc? Because that's slightly weird in the current context unless Marley is really militant, or that the Eldian janissary soldiers are warriors because their entire lives revolve around military service to atone for the crimes of their ethnic forbears.

From earlier in the thread: https://imgur.com/a/EEGVD

And yes, for the Eldians, it appears that military service is the only way to get any measure of upwards social mobility and exceptional success means being chosen as one of the titans, which in itself means they'll spend the remaining 13 years of their lives fighting.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


It was before the basement reveal.

Re Zeke/Eren confrontation, I'm just picturing Zeke ordering his titans to attack, and to everyone's horror Eren countering with the Coordinate power to have them charge the Marleyan lines instead.

Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 01:48 on May 29, 2017

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


RatHat posted:

The only issue with using the coordinate power is that they'd need to bring Historia to the front lines to use it.

Why?

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


RatHat posted:

Did you miss where Eren realized he needs to be touching someone with royal blood to use the power?

*snaps fingers*

I did. Bad translations, you see.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


DaveKap posted:

Which is one of the biggest, most annoyingly craziest and unlikely coincidences in this entire freaking story. You guys complain about Armin falling 100 feet while burnt to a crisp and surviving, this is way worse. I hope it's explained that there are still base instincts of the humanity inside the titan and that she actually had Grisha's scent in mind and has been following it around. That would make sense when you consider how titans always seem to sniff humans out and you can pretty much never hide from them.

That is it, though.

Titans both a) have a built-in human radar, and b) retain some measure of human sapience and memories, enough that they sometimes talk (Connie's mom) or outright betray their titan instincts to do really weird poo poo (Ymir's priest).

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


This is amazing and excellent.

Better her backstory here than after she's been killed offscreen, and the syringe had already made its appearance early in the series.

Also finally explained how she managed to sneak up on Reiner's group for everyone goons who kept bitching about it.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


They perfectly framed the 'executions' so it looks like they're being thrown off from a wall like those encircling Eldian territory, too.

The actual major reveal is the just-short-of-outright-stating-it implication that you get titan shifter powers by eating another one, which is a simple connect the dots to "Eren must've eaten his dad."



vvv

Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jun 3, 2017

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


In It For The Tank posted:

The only bad thing about the flashback is that the info card before the break explicitly says Ymir's hometown is outside the walls. If you remove that, the flashback could be read as happening entirely in the walls (with Ymir and her followers being kicked out rather than into).

You're reading too much into that. That she was from outside the Paradis walls was already a given, between her being able to read an unknown language and Reiner and Bert constantly talking about their own 'hometown' that is also outside the walls.

Conspiratiorist posted:

They perfectly framed the 'executions' so it looks like they're being thrown off from a wall like those encircling Eldian territory, too.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Yeah I guess they spoiled these outsiders have run-down buildings and guns that look similar to those of the walldians, rather than being a hidden leaf titan ninja village like some people dreamed of.

How awful.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Phobophilia posted:

There's a non-zero chance that we might even finish the uprising arc this season as well.

Nope, this season only has 2 episodes left; it's going to end shortly after Eren uses the Coordinate.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Sub Harrison posted:

My beef with the syringe is, before the uprising arc, the injection seemed to be something unique to Eren solely. His dad, who's only characteristic was he is a great doctor, gave him a magic drug that lets him turn into a titan. It wasn't until Eren seeing his dad's flashback that the injection only turns you into a pure titan and you still need to eat a shifter to gain control.

Now that the anime's shown all these pure titans being made with shots, it weakens the mystery surrounding Grisha's disapearance.

Also in this episode, Ymir said she was turned into a titan 60 years ago and the commercial break explicitly says it was outside the walls. So now we know theres a whole functioning society outside the walls so humanity did not perish 100 years ago. Severely weakens the basement reveal too.

My assumption ever since S1 had always been that despite the claims of humanity being extinct, the titan shifters were from outside the walls. It just makes sense: the walldians found a way to survive, but that doesn't mean no one else did. Afterwards, Bert and Reiner further reinforce this with all their talk about their 'hometown' as some distant place they want to return, and breaking down the walls as not something that negatively impacts said 'hometown'. So there's somewhere out there where these guys are coming from that has secret knowledge of how titans work, at least specifically how to turn humans into them.

Now, what I and most people with half a brain imagined is that there must be some small village or a city, perhaps, with some means of defense against being overrun by titans.

What Ymir's backstory shows us is that one such place indeed exists, and it's a shantytown in an arid area with an abusive military (the last part, not unlike the people of Paradis). And as a bonus red herring, they frame the executions as people cast off a very tall wall.

This certainly eliminates possibilities out of where Reiner and co. might've come from, but that's a loving longshot to leap from this info to the idea the whole story is taking place in australia while the rest of the world is doing just fine and dandy and already at early 20th century levels of technology.

Basically, it only weakens the reveal if you've somehow gone deep into the rabbit hole of some of the more outlandish pet theories that usually revolve around missing key and obvious details.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Also Marcel looked like a pretty cool and heroic dude vs everyone else who were dofus little kids.

I think Reiner adopted his hairstyle after him.

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Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


TowerofOil posted:

I'm already on board the Reiner as true protagonist, so if Eren is shown after the time skip still a murder loving psychopath its just official for me.


Say Nothing posted:

I don't think there is a true protagonist - everyone is pretty much evil scum.

Haha what.

I thought we only had one guy arguing that every Eldian down to the last woman and child should be genocided, for 'reasons'.

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